PLA Vs Indian Army On LAC discussion thread.

[shiphone]

oh,please...no double standard ...

LAC is long enough...divided to 3 parts: east ,middle and west...I thought the commander of 33rd Corps would have different opinion with you on the heavy equipments. and right in this area the new t72 units were deployed as indian media said

and you put 40 tones T72 and 34 tones Tunguska in your comparation list, and all similiar PLA equipments ,some of which are lighter , are labled unfit for LAC geography....what a logic

My dad went to Tibet, PRC, last year. He noted certain things there:

• 
  ..........
• Most of Tibet is plateau and flat and pretty easy for tracked vehicles to traverse.
• Road infrastructure is very bad, but on the Indian side, it is very very very bad. However, whatever roads they have, are in excellent condition.
• Heavy developmental work is going on, especially road building, to improve communication and quick troop deployment in case of hostilities.
  ...........

P.S.: I have posted videos of this trip in another thread, where you can get an idea what it is like in Tibet.

 

[Kunal Biswas]

You have least Idea abt the ground reality, Even i have told you earlier..

And there are, No double standard as you have repeated it second time or trying to portrait..



Their are few places where T-72 & BMP works that is Sikkim and some places In J&K, Most LAC part is all abt Light Armour and Regular Infantry also Light Arty, I also mentioned abt Type-96 MBT in PLA side..

You are posting almost every Vehicle in PLA..
Post Vehicles and Arms:

1. Capable of fast moving force and light enough to be used in Mountain warfare..
2. The weapon or system have mass presence and most counted in PLA..
3. You can also Post Prototypes which can be useful in these terrain..

 

[shiphone]

it seems that you have put almost everything IA had on the list as well in the origin thread except 60 tons Arjun and 11.5 tons FH77B..and T90 ....
and I didn't bring the 52 tons level ZTZ99/99A and 9.8 tons PLL01 into the list here either ..

actually I didn't see much special designed weapon for Mountain combat in IA.

and I was a little curious why not list the two light 105mm guns then...is it the Artillery serving in IA mountain Div.s and fit for this terrain
? although they might be old and retiring .

BTW, what HMG IA is chasing ? .....and then ,I could bring Chinese HMGs into this comparation....

------------------------
IA and PLA Army are both on the way to future and try to get stronger...but I thought the goal and process are quite different...Reduction in Personnel in PLA would go on again in near future, and on the contrary, IA raised two more div.s...I thought we could find the answer to this difference in these two threads.

You were asking about the SF brigades once, I didn't get it then...after reread your thread, I thought it was Strike Force behind the LAC.mainly I won't discuss it here ...But I could say that every summer and autum ,some units from different military region maneuver onto highland taining and excising...

the news clip in #76 post is about Battlion level counterattack exercise near the middle part of LAC @4500m...and this unit is from some Mech.Infan.Div of other low atitude military regions. and if IA do have the ambition to Lasha or Beijing , I'm afraid you'd better get ready for some Armor powerful current besides those current SF units near behind the LAC. the plateau and flat Xizhang is the right place for armor battle.

 

[Kunal Biswas]

it seems that you have put almost everything IA had on the list as well in the origin thread except 60 tons Arjun and 11.5 tons FH77B..and T90 ....

and I didn't bring the 52 tons level ZTZ99/99A and 9.8 tons PLL01 into the list here either ..

actually I didn't see much special designed weapon for Mountain combat in IA.

and I was a little curious why not list the two light 105mm guns then...is it the Artillery serving in IA mountain Div.s and fit for this terrain

? although they might be old and retiring .

BTW, what HMG IA is chasing ? .....and then ,I could bring Chinese HMGs into this comparation....

------------------------

Your Understanding is based on my post on different Weapons specifications But not the Logic the thread is based on, Indian Members Understood it right away so i haven't post details why so..



I posted every weapon on both sides which are in use or can be used:

Heavy Mech: IA operate T-72AJAYA 1/2 in front area like Sikkim and Karu, PLA operate Type-96G/A in Tibet..
Light Mech: IA operate BMP-2 and Some 4X4 Wheeled APC/MPV, Where as PLA operate PL-2 and the 6X6 APC/IFV i will post..

Infantry: Is based on Platoon level, As In this warfare is all abt Mountain fast moving force, The force which have more maneuverability and firepower proves heavy on other, Their are no discussion on fixed defense so no HMG or AGL in thread..

Arty & MRLS & Motar: Motar is most important part in Mountain warfare and easily deploy-able in these terrain, Arty which can be towed via 2.5ton trucks to highest altitude also those which can be slung under Helicopter can be used, MRLS like 122mm is good in these terrain as they are small enough, And Heavy MRLS can be used from far behind as their range cover most..

105MM arty is presently in Use, But not issued in High Numbers on LAC, 105mm may be replaced by new 122mm and 155MM M777, M777 are already got the deal signed, M46 & M46 upgrades in good use on LAC, But deployed not very close to LAC, But if needed can be deployed near LAC..


Visa Versa, I posted most Efficent wepions PLA have which can be used in such terrain..




IA mountain Division:

1. Light Infantry weapons are given already except Shipon RL which will be added soon..
2. Light Armor is mainly consist of Light MGS which are on RFI, Polish Anders in row..
3. Light Arty consist of 155mm & 122mm pieces..
4. Specialized Bhramos Missile for Mountain warfare..

IA and PLA Army are both on the way to future and try to get stronger...but I thought the goal and process are quite different...Reduction in Personnel in PLA would go on again in near future, and on the contrary, IA raised two more div.s...I thought we could find the answer to this difference in these two threads.

You were asking about the SF brigades once, I didn't get it then...after reread your thread, I thought it was Strike Force behind the LAC.mainly I won't discuss it here ...But I could say that every summer and autum ,some units from different military region maneuver onto highland taining and excising...

the news clip in #76 post is about Battlion level counterattack exercise near the middle part of LAC @4500m...and this unit is from some Mech.Infan.Div of other low atitude military regions.

What missunderstood for most members who fall for Media reports..

IA goal is simpley to secure void part of our nation borders, This includes other nations too, The wepions like T-72 only placed in similar way as PLA did on other side, Same way we use mostly paramilitaies on bangladesh, Nepal, Bhutan, Burma borders, With our old friends we place only what they placed on other sides, Though China and India dont have a warm friendly relation after 62 and 84 incident so we care abt this part more than other..

Well SF brigades i am talking abt not RRU, I havent made any thread on them coz i need to find nessary info i had before, Only after i scan i will post..

Also your PLA excerise Annualy in these terrain so do we..

 

[DMF]

Most of the Chinese weapons posted here are not equipped actually, for the 1980 and 1990's, China really did not feel the urge for military build-up, at that time the Chinese military were very poorly invested, even tell the army to do some business to help to themselves make the ends meet. The policy was " more develop and research, less equipment, fast move forwards with small steps", so make a lot of prototype, just keep a technical team to develop the ability, but real production are low. China sincerely likes to rise peacefully, not wish anybody regard China to be a threat. But the USA send two missiles in to China's Embassy in Belgrade in 1999, this is the boost for China to spend more on the military. But the new equipments also are replacing the old one very slowly, because any thing mass produced, the new and better one will come.
But I think China's priority at the time being is the navy, because the navy just begin to develop, because before very very poor, and not have the ability to build war ships, now the situation little better, the navy is the focus of China's military, not the army.
the Indian freinds like to take China to be an enemy, but you will find out this is not the case

 

[shiphone]

Most of the Chinese weapons posted here are not equipped actually

I thought I made it clear in the first post...

shiphone
1. all weapons listed are active in PLA Army service right now(red fonts)
but I would like to put some those under development(green fonts)
and some types for export only which were mistakenly recognized as PLA army active equipment (Blue fonts) in the origin thread

----------------------

Lot of Harware present are not relevent to LAC geography, Hence i will call it a Reference to PLA Land System and Sub system..

it seems that I have to make extra chapters for the amphibious equipment and airborne equipment.

-------------------------------------------

What missunderstood for most members who fall for Media reports..

indian member fall for indian midia ? or media are not very professional and reliable, isn't it?
I have been watching indian defence related websites and forums for 7 years.I thought I had the basic sense about what you are talking about usually .

I'm afraid chinese members know more coz we were watching the info from both the sides...and chinese military forum had more topics to discuss via much more channels of information ...

as I said

in china, the State owned TV station(CCTV) has 2 channels military related broadcasting all the day--channle 7 and Defence Channel.
every month, about 20 magezines are publiced for the popularization of military science and tech ,they are sold at every news stands.

------------------------

Btw, Any one of you two every had any chance to visit Indo -China Border ?
Ng: Lol dont Lol, if lol only Lol, lol strike back lol, lol lol, understand lol..

it's really not a big deal.. ,you see ,even the relative of some indian member here could go near around noticing the development of roads and other infrastruction...
the travel to XiZhang is quite hot and popular ... my mum and dad have been there last summer,and they got to some towns just 18-23km away from the LAC after 2 nights adaptive process to altitude reaction in Lasha .

and SelfDriving Tour to LAC is quite hot as well...loads of threads with image record could be found on the internet- in chinese of course...groups of tour pal are travelling there by Jeeps or SUVs every summner and autum..some of them had a close contact with the professional soilders from BSF(???).

Nissan X-trail SUV

 

[Shaitan]

Nice pictures, I'll look at all of them later.

 

[Drsomnath999]

i must appreciate both u guys bro kunal & mate shiphone ,u guys have done a wonderful job in this thread ,no doubt about it
CHEERS to both u guys .

 

[Kunal Biswas]

it seems that I have to make extra chapters for the amphibious equipment and airborne equipment.

-------------------------------------------

I already done for airborne but you can make a new one here as a reference guide..

indian member fall for indian midia ? or media are not very professional and reliable, isn't it?
I have been watching indian defence related websites and forums for 7 years.I thought I had the basic sense about what you are talking about usually .I'm afraid chinese members know more coz we were watching the info from both the sides...and chinese military forum had more topics to discuss via much more channels of information ...

as I said

------------------------

some of them had a close contact with the professional soilders from ARMY(???).

Nissan X-trail SUV

They do so does common man and other people form around the world..

Its a usually job of media channels to add more to the original news make it sensational, Few channels like NDTV and CNBC and other are good Indian channels, Avoid India TV, Ajj tak crap they are more like Fox news of US..

The picture speak for themselves, But it dont take much time to change the environment in tense war times..
Their is a good friendly environment in Indo-Sino borders unlike on Internet, But few incident occurs when PLA troops pass LAC into Indian territory and mark Chinese signs and destroy unused bunkers..

 

[niceguy2011]

Self deleted.

 

[shiphone]

#72 post an exercise held at 4500m atituld ...more images coming instead of screenshots

J11...rocket attact

J10...LGB

PHL81

PGZ04 25mm

ZTZ96A and ZSD89

QW1

PZL07 122mm

Type67-2 General Purpose MG(HMG status) 7.62mm another HMG appeared in this exercise

the Return of the Assault Group

 

[shiphone]

PART E... Air Defence System in PLA Army ....continued

Medium range SAMs ( 30-40KMS )
------------------------
the HQ-6(former HQ-64) in origin thread #28 post is not the equipment of Army but the Air force.

HQ16 MR-SAM new equiptment , Max Range 35-45km Corps Level AD system....

---------------------
Portable SAM system...MANPADS

1st Generation HY-5 in service since 1984, phasing out now

2nd Generation QW-1(Vanguard 1) and HY-6(FN-6)

QW-1

HY6

The Searching and Command Unit

Company Level Searching RADAR

Commander Information Sys

Commander and Shooter

 

[cir]

Pictures depicting a mechanized infantry brigade belonging to the Tibet Command of the Chengdu Military Region:

1st battalion:

2nd battalion:

3rd battalion:

 

[cir]

A mechanized infantry brigade belonging to the Lanzhou Military Region(MR), which will be the first MR to join the Chengdu MR in action, should a Sino-India war break out:

2nd battalion

4th battalion

6th battalion

2nd battalion

Notice the gun-fired missiles in the last picture above.

 

[Ray]

No sign of Dalai's boys?

 

[hbogyt]

A mechanized infantry brigade belonging to the Lanzhou Military Region(MR), which will be the first MR to join the Chengdu MR in action, should a Sino-India war break out:

2nd battalion

4th battalion

6th battalion

2nd battalion

Notice the gun-fired missiles in the last picture above.

Thank goodness they are not firing Saggers.

 

[cir]

Type 03 300 mm long-range rocket artillery stationed in Tibet：

 

[SPIEZ]

A mechanized infantry brigade belonging to the Lanzhou Military Region(MR), which will be the first MR to join the Chengdu MR in action, should a Sino-India war break out:

2nd battalion

4th battalion

6th battalion

2nd battalion

Notice the gun-fired missiles in the last picture above.

ADD their names pls. They are hard to identify!

 

[cir]

A flood of armour rushing all the way down southward：

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Thread Updated..

1. Small Arm & Infantry Section Updated
2. Light Armour Section Updated
3. Tube arty section updated
4. MBRL section Updated
5. Mortar section both towed and SP are Updated
6. AAA/SAM Towed as well as Mobile Systems are Updated
7. Minor changes including Pictures and Info are Updated

Will Update more when forum is Updated.

For now review the Original thread as it call:

http://defenceforumindia.com/forum/indian-army/16694-information-guide-pla-vs-indian-army-lac.html


Feedback.