Philippines to stand ground vs bullying of China

fzaq

Regular Member
Joined
Apr 30, 2012
Messages
206
Likes
123
then join the Philippines in the UN like a civilized nation that respects the rule of law
 

s002wjh

Senior Member
Joined
Jul 9, 2009
Messages
1,271
Likes
153
Country flag
guess who else is selling military supply to phiilippine

Philippines, China to sign military logistics deal | ABS-CBN News

MANILA, Philippines - The Philippines, a long-time US ally and former colony, said it will sign a logistics supply deal with China to source military equipment to combat domestic security threats, including from Maoist rebels.

General Ricardo David, Chief of Staff of the 130,000-member Armed Forces of the Philippines, will fly on Tuesday to Beijing, where he will meet senior defense and army officials and also tour military facilities, the Philippine military said.

David will sign a defense logistics deal with his counterpart in the People's Liberation Army (PLA), with talks expected to cover regional security concerns, including tensions in the Korean peninsula and the peaceful resolution of disputes in the South China Sea, where Beijing and Manila have competing claims.

"I would suppose this will start the influx of logistics coming from mainland China," military spokesman Brigadier-General Jose Mabanta told reporters on the planned deal.

The Philippines has one of the weakest militaries in the Asia-Pacific region, in part relying on second-hand aircraft, boats and assault rifles from the United States, its closest security partner and former colonial ruler.

"I don't think there will be any political implications," Mabanta said when asked about the likely U.S. reaction. "The Philippine Armed Forces really lack funds and equipment and is ready and willing to accept equipment and much-needed resources from any donor country. This includes, of course, China."

Expanding soft power

Last year, a US congressional report warned of China's "soft power", of expanding its influence in the region through billions of dollars in development assistance and investments, particularly in the Philippines, Cambodia, Laos and Myanmar.

In August, US military officials said Chinese assertiveness in the South China Sea was causing concern in the region.

China has previously donated engineering equipment, such as graders and bulldozers, which the army used to build roads in rural areas where the Maoist New People's Army (NPA) is active. It has also offered to sell artillery, helicopters and boats.

Since 2000, Washington has donated more than $500 million of military equipment and supplies to Manila. It has also provided training and advice on countering Islamic militants in the south.

The United States has also funded assistance to poorer rural communities to check the spread of NPA influence and control.

The Philippines has a modernization fund of about $150 million to upgrade transport aircraft and combat helicopters to fight Muslim separatists and Maoist guerrillas.
as of 12/07/2010 12:07 AM
 

satish007

Senior Member
Joined
May 7, 2011
Messages
1,458
Likes
203
Philippines has a Treaty with the US.
I don' think Chinese care about these small islands and the oil so much , they really don't like PH being US's little brother.
Chinese want to be leader of ASIAN but it is very hard because US, so they have to use these ways to softly remind PH.
 

Uruzu

New Member
Joined
Apr 24, 2012
Messages
5
Likes
4
''Historical Claim''

I guess the if Britain hypothetically re-emerges as a dominant military and economic power in the future, then she reserves the right to reclaim 25% of the globe? Same for Spain, Netherlands and Portugal? Can the Mongolians claim China because of the historical fact that they have ruled the land for over a hundred years?

You marked the shoals on a map. Big deal. Fishermen from South East Asia have been fishing there for centuries aswell.

And there's no excuse whatsoever to illegally fish well within someone else's EEZ.

You send a fleet for illegal fishing, get caught, then intimidate others militarily , then portray yourself as the victims. Classic Chinese land creeping tactic.

Same analogy as ''Pooing on someone's table, then intimidate that person not to ''bully'' you with your strong bodyguards''.

Carry on with the ''historical claims '' the Koreans, Japanese, Indians and Vietnamese. You only got yourself to blame for the ''encirclement'.
 

ice berg

Senior Member
Joined
Nov 18, 2011
Messages
2,145
Likes
292
Ahh, a british chap who moralises us on property rights. How droll.

You can claim everything you want as long as you can enforce your will.

Remember how you claimed Falkland? You can talk all you want, in the end you claimed it by guns.

So stop been a hypocrite. After you plundered Africa and Asia for centuries, you coming here to lecture us on historical claims and what is right and wrong? Did you ever pay back all the things you stolen from India and China? How about you go... your-self.

The world will be a better place without your queen and her minions.
 

asianobserve

Tihar Jail
Banned
Joined
May 5, 2011
Messages
12,846
Likes
8,556
Country flag
I don' think Chinese care about these small islands and the oil so much , they really don't like PH being US's little brother.
Chinese want to be leader of ASIAN but it is very hard because US, so they have to use these ways to softly remind PH.

Asia Pacific is populated by a mix of very promising countries. There there are the established heavyweights like Japan, Australia and South Korea. And there are the countries with developing economies but are projected by financial institutions to be among the biggest economies in the world in the near future, Malaysia, Philippines, Indonesia, Thailand and Vietnam. I don't think these countries are going to be push overs... of course Uncle will be persistent in the background. So China has its hands full... :rofl:
 
Last edited:
Joined
Feb 16, 2009
Messages
29,797
Likes
48,276
Country flag
Asia Pacific is populated by small but very promising countries. There are the established giants like Japan, Australia, South Korea and Singapore. And there are the countries with developing economies but are projected by financial institutions to be among the biggest economies in the world in the near future, Malaysia, Philippines, Indonesia, Thailand and Vietnam. I don't think these countries are going to be push overs... of course Uncle will be persistent in the background. So China has its hands full... :rofl:
As long as they stay in their 2 percent of the South China seas
China has no problem they can also rise peacefully.
 

amoy

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 17, 2010
Messages
5,982
Likes
1,849
off topic, but would invite Filipino friends' comment on below

MILF: From ARMM to Bangsamoro State Government' | Inquirer News
Ghazali Jaafar, Moro Islamic Liberation Front (MILF) vice chairman for political affairs, in a news conference on Sunday said the BMSG would cover the ARMM provinces of Tawi-Tawi, Sulu, Basilan, Maguindanao and Lanao del Sur "and more areas where there are many Bangsamoro people."

......

"The MILF's goal is to have a peaceful solution to the problem, and the Bangsamoro people and the leadership of the MILF believe that (this can be achieved) only through the establishment of a Bangsamoro government, which is still under the Republic of the Philippines."

What would the peace talks lead to? Likely a "semi-independent" (autonomous) Bangsamoro (Islamic)state on Mindanao?
 

Oblaks

Regular Member
Joined
Apr 15, 2012
Messages
372
Likes
123
guess who else is selling military supply to phiilippine

Philippines, China to sign military logistics deal | ABS-CBN News
Actually since the mischief reef incident I thought the Sino-Philippine relations have been warming up specially recently when the Philippine president made a visit to China. Speaking from Chinese point of view of soft peaceful rise of power, they should have let the arrest take place and negotiate for the release of the fishermen later and together with talking about some other stuff. That way the standoff could have been avoided and China would have creeped its way quietly to a bilateral talk that they have been pursuing with the Philippines.

Again I am speaking out of the China-peaceful-rise point of view. Because I am anticipating right now that you would go back to saying that The Phulippines should not have brought in a Navy ship.
 

asianobserve

Tihar Jail
Banned
Joined
May 5, 2011
Messages
12,846
Likes
8,556
Country flag
off-topic hfhdjhfjdfhkdjfhksjhfdksjfhaksjdfhaskdjfhaskdjhfkasjdhfkajdsfasdfasdf
 

Ray

The Chairman
Professional
Joined
Apr 17, 2009
Messages
43,132
Likes
23,834
Ahh, a british chap who moralises us on property rights. How droll.

You can claim everything you want as long as you can enforce your will.

Remember how you claimed Falkland? You can talk all you want, in the end you claimed it by guns.

So stop been a hypocrite. After you plundered Africa and Asia for centuries, you coming here to lecture us on historical claims and what is right and wrong? Did you ever pay back all the things you stolen from India and China? How about you go... your-self.

The world will be a better place without your queen and her minions.
By China's logic, the British can claim whatever they had colonised!

It is China which is being hypocritical!

What exactly do you mean by claim everything you want as long as you can enforce your will.?

Are you suggesting might is right and there is no other law?

So be it.

Is that the reason why you are running scared in using your might against the small nations around the SCS every time a USN vessel steams in around the vicinity?

Answer Uruzu's message and not take on the messenger!
 
Last edited:

Oblaks

Regular Member
Joined
Apr 15, 2012
Messages
372
Likes
123
Scarborough will not be Mischief Reef redux | Inquirer Global Nation

Scarborough will not be another Mischief Reef


In its April 25 editorial, the Global Times, published by China's official People's Daily, warned that "China should select the most arrogant provocateur, conduct comprehensive strikes, and exert pressure economically, politically and militarily. If the water overwhelms China's knees, other countries will find their necks in the water."According to Gen. Yuan, in a confrontation with China, the Philippines cannot count on US support as it is "debatable if the U.S. would be willing to force a showdown with the world's second largest economy on the Philippines' account."

At the April 30 Washington DC press conference with Hillary Clinton, Foreign Secretary Del Rosario outlined the country's "three-track approach" to resolve its dispute with China: apolitical track focused on seeking the support of Asean member-nations; a legal track based on filing a dispute settlement case before the United National and UNCLOS; and a diplomatic track of engaging in regular consultations with China to defuse the tensions.

A clue to knowing the future of the Scarborough Shoal may be found in the past, in how China dealt with a previous Philippine shoal.

In 1994, China illegally occupied the Philippines' Panganiban Reef, which China calls the Meiji Reef — otherwise known internationally as the Mischief Reef — located about 130 miles from Palawan. The Chinese occupation of the reef occurred during the monsoon season when Philippine Navy ships were not patrolling the area.

After the Philippines discovered the trespass, it demanded that China leave immediately. But China refused and asserted its ownership of Mischief Reef. China assured the Philippines that it merely intended to build shelters on the reef for its fishermen. It was a lie. In 1999, China erected a four-story military garrison on the reef.

Although the Philippines dubbed the occupation of the Mischief Reef as China's "creeping invasion," the government chose not to attempt to dismantle the garrison on the reef which is within its 200 mile exclusive economic zone (EEZ) as the government feared that any precipitous act may provoke war with China, which it cannot possibly win.

China has calculated that without the means or the appetite for any military conflict with China, the Philippines will likely back down in its current conflict and bow to the inevitable, allowing China to build a garrison on the Scarborough Shoal.

But perhaps not.

On April 27, Senate President Juan Ponce-Enrile called on the Filipino people to rally behind President Noynoy Aquino in asserting the country's sovereignty in the West Philippine Sea. "We have a good case over Scarborough against China, as well as the Reed Bank. I could not believe that a nation almost 1,000 nautical miles away from the Scarborough Shoal and the Reed Bank could overcome the rights of the nearest sovereign state and the rights of the Republic of the Philippines," Enrile said.

Even the Philippines top Maoist, Jose Maria Sison, founder of the Communist Party of the Philippines, supports the Philippines' claim to the Scarborough Shoal, agreeing that China's historical claims over what it calls the South China Sea amount to an absurdity, "as this would be like Italy claiming "¦ all areas previously occupied by the Roman Empire."

"China must not violate Philippine national sovereignty and territorial integrity, the UN Convention on the Law of the Sea and the Code of Conduct it agreed to with the ASEAN," Sison said.

The global Filipino community, which was not as large nor as organized in 1994 during the first Mischief Reef crisis, is now asserting itself in the dispute by asking the 12 million Filipinos in the Diaspora to rally in front of China's embassies and consulates throughout the world on May 11. The global Filipinos want to show China that it cannot behave like a bully towards the Philippines which has citizens scattered throughout the world who can mobilize and galvanize world public opinion against China. [For more information, log on to USPGG.org.]

The Scarborough Shoal may not suffer the same fate as Mischief Reef after all.

"Ne'er shall invaders trample thy sacred shoal."
 

Oblaks

Regular Member
Joined
Apr 15, 2012
Messages
372
Likes
123
After the ship in the left hangar is finished,work will start on 10 China Marine Surveillance(CMS) vessels:



The Filipinos had better prepare themselves for future face-offs,which will be many and often。 :rofl:

Now don't you call that bullying????
 

Oblaks

Regular Member
Joined
Apr 15, 2012
Messages
372
Likes
123
Point one, it is Chinese territory, it doesn't need to be awarded by some treaties sighed by Philippines and Americans or whoever they are.
how can you prove it???

Huangyan Island belonged to China before those treaties were signed. If the treaties which are the foundation of your country don't even include Huangyan Island, how come it belongs to Philippines suddenly.
you have to read my post again.. look at point 2



Point two, since Huangyan Island belongs to China, the so-called 200NM EEZ doesn't apply here.
you have to read my post again.. point 2 again and you have to answer my question about your point 1

Three, Philippines exercised no occupation of Huangyan Island, you didn't even claimed it until 1997. Philippines fishmen were able to fish there because China had no intention to stop them before, now China is reconsidering that decision, and I am sure that Philippines fishmen will never be allowed to step in Chinese waters after this standoff is over.
The 1997 claim you were talking about was the time when the Philippines removed the chinese stone marker which was installed there because the truth was a philippines flag was already in there as early as 1965. The Philippines claims that as early as the Spanish colonization of the Philippines, Filipino fishermen were already using the area as a traditional fishing ground and shelter during bad weather. In 1957, The Philippine government conducted an oceanographic survey of the area and together with the US Navy force based in then U.S. Naval Base Subic Bay in Zambales, used the area as an impact range for defense purposes. An 8.3 meter high flag pole flying a Philippine flag was raised in 1965. A small lighthouse was also built and operated the same year.[9] In 1992, the Philippine Navy rehabilitated the lighthouse and reported it to the International Maritime Organization for publication in the List of Lights. So based on effective occupancy, who has the right to the shoal?

Amoy is right, Philippines is simply an opportunist, who is speculating on the confrontation between China and America.
IMHO it's the other way around!!!
 

s002wjh

Senior Member
Joined
Jul 9, 2009
Messages
1,271
Likes
153
Country flag
Actually since the mischief reef incident I thought the Sino-Philippine relations have been warming up specially recently when the Philippine president made a visit to China. Speaking from Chinese point of view of soft peaceful rise of power, they should have let the arrest take place and negotiate for the release of the fishermen later and together with talking about some other stuff. That way the standoff could have been avoided and China would have creeped its way quietly to a bilateral talk that they have been pursuing with the Philippines.

Again I am speaking out of the China-peaceful-rise point of view. Because I am anticipating right now that you would go back to saying that The Phulippines should not have brought in a Navy ship.
i think a major power like china dont want to appear too weak in these kind of situation, especially the nationlism are run high in china these days. If this was US/UK etc i doubt they will just allow a much smaller country to arrest their citizen and negoitate on their term. sending civilian ship is not too agressive but not too weak response.

and yes philippine shouldn't send in warship in this case. enforcing illegal fishing etc is the duty of coastal guard, not navy. by sending a naval ship they escalate the issue higher which could very well force china to have a tougher stance and not appear too weak when facing foreign warship. even though china is an authoritarian government, it still has to worry about public opinions. they can't just allow a much smaller country arrest their fisherman, not looking good for ccp in china.
also this incident could indicate china stance on this issue, and testing the water etc etc.

china want to use soft power to accomplish its goal, but it does not mean china can't play tough. they always use a carriot and a stick approach for these things. taiwan for example, china has about 2k missile, army didvision near taiwan, it constanly said they will invade taiwan if formal independance is annouced, but they also has very good economic ties with them, give taiwan business man favorite condition when setup factorys or do business in china.
 

Oblaks

Regular Member
Joined
Apr 15, 2012
Messages
372
Likes
123
i think a major power like china dont want to appear too weak in these kind of situation, especially the nationlism are run high in china these days. If this was US/UK etc i doubt they will just allow a much smaller country to arrest their citizen and negoitate on their term. sending civilian ship is not too agressive but not too weak response.

and yes philippine shouldn't send in warship in this case. enforcing illegal fishing etc is the duty of coastal guard, not navy. by sending a naval ship they escalate the issue higher which could very well force china to have a tougher stance and not appear too weak when facing foreign warship. even though china is an authoritarian government, it still has to worry about public opinions. they can't just allow a much smaller country arrest their fisherman, not looking good for ccp in china.
also this incident could indicate china stance on this issue, and testing the water etc etc.

china want to use soft power to accomplish its goal, but it does not mean china can't play tough. they always use a carriot and a stick approach for these things. taiwan for example, china has about 2k missile, army didvision near taiwan, it constanly said they will invade taiwan if formal independance is annouced, but they also has very good economic ties with them, give taiwan business man favorite condition when setup factorys or do business in china.

Philippines has been arresting Chinese/Taiwanese fishermen in the past though most of them were done when they are very close to Philipine coast and usually they are released later after government negotiations. Furthermore, arrests are done when they are fishing illegally (using dynamites, cyanides, endegered species poaching). I don't see any reason why they cannot do it the same way again as the SCS has remained calm that way. Unless, China want to show it's might this time and is more determined to take the SCS. Well it might work to their advantage or it might backfire on them depending on how the parties involved play the game. My point is, China might be using the stick and carriot effectively against Taiwan but the story might be different when applied to others. IMO China could have creeped its way more quietly through the SCS and continue with the divide and conquer strategy against ASEAN. But now that this has happened (the standoff) that would move away the SCS a bit further from their reach in terms of a peaceful way
 

s002wjh

Senior Member
Joined
Jul 9, 2009
Messages
1,271
Likes
153
Country flag
Philippines has been arresting Chinese/Taiwanese fishermen in the past though most of them were done when they are very close to Philipine coast and usually they are released later after government negotiations. Furthermore, arrests are done when they are fishing illegally (using dynamites, cyanides, endegered species poaching). I don't see any reason why they cannot do it the same way again as the SCS has remained calm that way. Unless, China want to show it's might this time and is more determined to take the SCS. Well it might work to their advantage or it might backfire on them depending on how the parties involved play the game. My point is, China might be using the stick and carriot effectively against Taiwan but the story might be different when applied to others. IMO China could have creeped its way more quietly through the SCS and continue with the divide and conquer strategy against ASEAN. But now that this has happened (the standoff) that would move away the SCS a bit further from their reach in terms of a peaceful way
i think it just happen the chinese survey ship was near, and they have enough time to intervane. most time the fishing ships crew were already arrested before china can intervane. china been a major power is not gonna play soft all the time with minior countries, and its not gonna allow a minior country to continouslly arrest its citizen. philippine has to becareful when dealing with china. if china felt its been pushing back it will use harsh approach. not sure about previous case but china claim the island, so arresting chinese crew in that area and not intervane could make philippine bolder in the future. i'm sure china has its reason to intervane this time, but its not aggressive when send in its cilivian ships to solve the issue.
 

Ray

The Chairman
Professional
Joined
Apr 17, 2009
Messages
43,132
Likes
23,834
If China does not play soft, it will only invite the US to lurk around!
 

Latest Replies

Global Defence

New threads

Articles

Top