Partition & Reunification

What do you all Feel about Indo-Pak Unification?

  • Agree to the Unification

    Votes: 18 20.9%
  • Oppose the Unification

    Votes: 66 76.7%
  • Not Decided on it

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Just dont care!

    Votes: 2 2.3%

  • Total voters
    86

tarunraju

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you are wrong. With the reunification, we will busy cleaning the Taliban and the Islamic terrorists. With more widows to follow for decades.
Not more deaths than in the present scene inflicted by India and Pakistan upon eachother. That's not even a convincing argument.



I am not at all talking about Hong Kong -China in physical dimensions at all.
you had Hong kong populated by people from China. It had a movie industry. Guess, it was normal.Just Chinese living in another Chinese city.

You had such similarities between West and East Germany too.

India- Pakistan are different. Some areas the culture is the same and in others it's not.

And therefore existing examples of reunification do not work and cannot be justified in INDO-PAK context.
Franky I don't even need to cite examples of past reunifications/sovereignty-transfers to back my argument. Reunifications are very much possible in the 21st century, as it has happened in modern, post-WWII era. As much as you want to think India and Pakistan as far too apart from each other to stage a reunification, my argument has focussed on convincing you that you cannot write-off such a probability.

And no, an Indian Punjabi has more things in common with a Pakistani Punjabi, than an Indian Punjabi with an Indian Tamil. We've pioneered managing a diverse country better than anyone on the face of the planet. Hence I don't see how reunification is not possible, as far as logistics and national integration go.
 

tharikiran

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Not more deaths than in the present scene inflicted by India and Pakistan upon eachother. That's not even a convincing argument.

How do you plan to control a Taliban when there are no borders between them and us ?

At least, the electric fencing is saving us from outright movement of militants.
In the present scene, the deaths are dwindling. Kashmir is coming to normalcy. They are coming into the news for political sex scandals .Give me that any day instead of bomb blasts.
Have a look a Pakistan. It cannot stay safe for 48 hours without a bomb blast. Pakistan and Afghanisthan kinda have a porous border.

And no, an Indian Punjabi has more things in common with a Pakistani Punjabi, than an Indian Punjabi with an Indian Tamil.We've pioneered managing a diverse country better than anyone on the face of the planet.


That's what I am saying too. Some areas have similarities and some don't. How are we going to turn a non-secular state into a secular state ?
 

bhramos

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i totaly oppose reunification,
but may be India+ Srilanka+ anyother country, but hate to see with bald ****s and with sharia laws, as already some sick people in country beating girls who go out movie or pub,
i cant allow more of these type of similar minded ass holes to enter my country and take freedom of Indian woman in my country,
 

tharikiran

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Let's assume India and pak has been united. How are we going to disarm the Taliban.
There is this so called good Taliban and bad Taliban.Both believe in keeping arms.[AK-47's]
They believe it to be their birth right.
We can't/not supposed to kill the good Talibans. Or can we.

Both, don't want their way of life to be changed.They want to stay in their 11th century beliefs.How are we going to integrate them into a civil society ? How are we going to ask them to lay down arms ?
 

Yusuf

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Germany could be united because the differences were on political ideology. NK & SK may well be united one day. But the creation of India and Pakistan was on the lines of religious beliefs and sown in the mind that two religions can't co exist. Although it was a wrong assumption, it has stuck on the other side.

There is no common ground now between the two countries except past history and even that is being distorted in Pakistan to run away from our common history. Any bonhomie that exists is perhaps superficial. Any unification will drag down India and the hard work put inby us all these years. Also it could lead to more tensions being created when Muslims from Pakistan do their bit to get a share of power in a unified India. That itself will be a seeding ground for another partition after that.
 

thakur_ritesh

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62 years is a long long time, if not geographically but most certainly thinking wise the two nations today stand oceans apart, where on one side a certain muthalik, his ram sene and the likes are reined down upon the moment they raise their venomous head, where army is directed to only be in the bunkers and do what they are meant to do, where a muslim, a dalit, a christian can dream of heading the country, where a nation has learnt to take the moderate path as its nation building process, on the contrary there stands a country which has elitists, federalists, who have taken center stage and run the affairs of the country, where a certain mullah is hailed for his rubbish ideology, and beliefs, where people wish that their army does a coup on them, where the minorities are being completely done away with in a systematic manner as state policy, where liberal, and moderate views are termed as naïve, so where is the common ground for the two to unify?

there are certain level headed people in pakistan but the moment they raise their voice they are termed as traitors, which in fact shows the constant fear that a average pakistani lives in. the punjabi elite and the feudals rule that country be it through politics or the army, and they have ingrained india's image as some evil and one of the binding force of pakistan is anti india sentiments, now when a nation is formed on hatred for the other then how does one expect them to share the same platform with someone they despise.

let us leave pakistan to the pakistanis themselves which is good recipe for yet more failures to happen. as far as pakistan being a home for the muslims is concerned well they got the first answer to it when a good 33% of muslims decided to stay back in india, and one has to be thankful to them that they decided to do that or else india would have turned out to be the hindu version of a muslim pakistan that we see today, and secondly when bangladesh happened and it now seems history is repeating itself and the third failure to the concept is waiting to happen in the name of baluchistan.

let us understand on thing, one one gets the taste of control and no matter how many problems they have, very few are ready to leave it for the good of others and that kind of maturity is certainly not seen in most pakistanis.

india as such has a lot of problems to look after and there is no need to get a nuisance of a headache called pakistan. there are certain things that are best left as a bygone or else they end up being a recipe of disaster for you yourself, pakistan is one such case.
 

S.A.T.A

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The only thing that we learn from Indian history is that we never learn anything from Indian history.We have always come short on analyzing histriological patterns and even more morbid in understanding their long term implication(Jaswant singh's trial by fire within in the BJP being the latest example)


Pakistan's experiment with a religious nation state has stuttered time and again,but what about ours.What is our concept of a nation state.is a India a nation belonging to Hindus or a nation comprising of people who call/called themselves Indians/Hindustanis/Bharatis.If its the former the debate must end here(and perhaps embark on another regarding non Hindus as non citizens)if its the later, how do we reconcile with the current political boundaries with our concept of our nationhood.

Here's some food for thought,when historians write the history of our time,they'll invariably mention the people of India lived divided in four political entities.But the real question is why wouldn't it be one political entity or twenty different.The truth is there is still enough time for both of these could happen,what we become is what we choose to become.

Pakistan's failure to forge a nations state moored on a common belief will be no less spectacular than if we fail to come together as civilizational nation state(the tragedy of 47 being merely a screen raiser)
 

F-14

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the problem that the morden India face is the same that all states that existed before it face even the first true pan Indian state the Maurya Dynasty faced the same the qustion How to unite a nation that is so varid to say the least but even thought India throught out its existansial histroy hasnt been a single political unit its people have been united by many things by culture by belifes etc etc but to face todays problems we have to take a diffrent approche we have to give people a sense of the Common history we share for that we should start from the time History is taught in school above that we should commmon integrated Political system in which there is no scope of conflict between the Union and the states on petty issues such as policing etc
 

Singh

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India whilst not adhering to western definitions of nationalism and secularism is today one of the more stabler states in the world. Pakistan whilst adhering to western definitions of nationalism and secularism has already in its short history of 62 years been divided once and presently is in dire straits.

In the words of Tharoor "Any truism about India can be immediately contradicted by another truism about India"

Our concepts of nationalism, secularism are different from the rest of the world. Its better if we strive to adhere to our ideals than implement ideas based on western notions.

A mutually beneficial approach in the future would be having something like EU all over South Asia ie single currency, a central parliament to enact laws and regulations binding on all members etc.

India is already 4/5th of the entire SAARC economy, if Pakistan wants to survive and grow economically it has to align itself to India.
 

sky

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There may come a time when india's smaller neighbour's can benifit from a union with inida. bhutan,nepal,sri lanka. if such a opputunity occurs,it could be a win win situation for all.
How ever pakistan or bangladesh would be to much to take on even if all concerned were up for it. the population of india will soon overtake china,i dont think its a cause for celebration ,so to even contamplate reunification is madness.
 

Yusuf

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A union as in a unification is not required. But if SAARC can become an EU, it would help.
 

bhramos

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Yosuf your is right , but would never happen,
Indian Union is best idea,
Countries which can join IU are
1. Srilanka
2. Nepal
3. Bhutan
4. Maldives
5. May be some Southeast asian countries.
 

ppgj

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You do the homework on how our state Assembly and national Parliament don't have Muslim representation proportional to the population of Muslims. Even in Hyderabad, where you have a very sizeable Muslim population, they are under-represented in the Municipal Corporation.
there are as you say many constituencies where muslims do make up a significant number but they may not be able to decide the outcome and hence go unrepresented in municipalities, state assemblies or parliament.
that can only happen when those constituencies are reserved for that community.

The only thing that is breeding radical-fundamentalism of Islam in Pakistan (or even here) is lack of opportunity to the youth, improper educational infrastructure, and everything that goes with it. When you eliminate "India and Pakistan" for a reunited state (call it what you want to), radicals in India and Pakistan run out of enemies. With 30~40% population, they can easily eliminate all social disparity, and live peacefully.
do not agree with- as borne out by the fact that many terrorists of 9/11 or caught even in india were highly educated and in well to do jobs. education, status has nothing to with one's outlook.
 

natarajan

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Yosuf your is right , but would never happen,
Indian Union is best idea,
Countries which can join IU are
1. Srilanka
2. Nepal
3. Bhutan
4. Maldives
5. May be some Southeast asian countries.
i dont think india is having good relation with srilanka behind the scene as their navy is making tamil fishermen's life a nightmare and also they are confident about their support from china and they will never join as they were against europe and usa in war on terror and even refused visa to main officials of europe
 

mehwish92

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I would like to say that I am of the opinion that the Partition was probably a good thing for India. India would have been in endless domestic turmoil if the partition had not occurred.

Finally....i cant agree more with Sky on his post. Pakistan is a huge mess(migraine) and just be glad that it is not India's migraine !!
Maybe Pakistan wouldn't be in the mess it is in right now had the partition not occurred. Maybe the Taliban wouldn't have existed. Radical Islamists in general probably wouldn't exist today had the partition not occurred.

On the other hand, Hindu extremism (though nowhere as severe as extremism in Pak) in India most likely wouldn't have existed if it weren't for the partition. If only...

But now it's too late. You want to mix these Hindu extremists and Radical Islamists together? It's only going to polarize the two communities even further and lead to turmoil in the country. We have too much to lose.

Reunification is impossible now. The only way it could become possible is if people stop thinking on religious lines (this goes for Pakistan especially).

What can India do to show the Pakistanis that the Partition was unnecessary? --> Prove to them that all citizens of India are equal, regardless of religion/caste/ethnicity. Prevent riots at all cost, regardless of whether they are targetting Hindus, Muslims, Sikhs, or Christians. And bring speedy justice. Show them that their fear of living under Hindu rule was baseless.

Unfortunately, as a Proud Indian Muslim I must say that there are some grievances of the Indian Muslim population that need to be addressed. Once this is done, Pakistanis will also realise that Muslims are living happily in India. If this is not done, then we are basically giving Pakistani's more fuel to keep their anti-India fire burning.
 

Yusuf

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Unfortunately, as a Proud Indian Muslim I must say that there are some grievances of the Indian Muslim population that need to be addressed. Once this is done, Pakistanis will also realise that Muslims are living happily in India. If this is not done, then we are basically giving Pakistani's more fuel to keep their anti-India fire burning.
There are issues for all Indians not just Muslims. And even if Muslims have a problem here, it's not pakistans resposibility. They have more problems between Muslims itself which they need to resolve.
 

natarajan

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yes as yusuf said all indians face lots of trouble and less oppurtunity in this recession period so lets face it as indians and get our share but this kind of attitude may lead to our netas playing vote bank politics and we can never compete with china or any developed nation but just free bies and quotas but not a feel of living in developed nation
just my 2 cents
 

A.V.

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[mod]i expect better discussions from dfi members on this we are not a jingo forum nor we we follow a bash bash ideology members please rise above taking petty shots at each other
a question has been asked and lets discuss in a civil manner.
ALL MEMBERS PLEASE DO NOT GENERALIZE discuss in respect to your personal points
[/mod]
 

Vikramaditya

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Well I don’t agree with your analysis of the situation. What worst can happen to Pakistan if she does not get the help or aid from the so called friends? Pakistan would have to file for bankruptcy as did the Argentine? What else? Those who have invested in Pakistan would let it happen?

Pakistan is very much in a state to wake up and review its relations with any country. However, all that is needed is some patriotism, and some self sacrifice. The nation is prepared for this but not the GoP. And what GoP, the one that came into power as a result of a 'deal' brokered by the USA/UK/KSA?
Who is GOP qsaark,its you and your ppl who select a parson which represent the country ppl..............I don't believe ppl accusing Government for every thing,in India too...............OK leave pak where diplomacy is few month old.....but in India its 62 years old but still ppl are not aware of their power......unbeliable
 

Energon

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Pakistan's experiment with a religious nation state has stuttered time and again,but what about ours...

Pakistan's failure to forge a nations state moored on a common belief will be no less spectacular than if we fail to come together as civilizational nation state(the tragedy of 47 being merely a screen raiser)
I'm a bit puzzled by the premise of your thread, mostly because I don't see what Pakistan's failure to forge an identity has to do with a reunion of any sort. Unlike the previously mentioned examples of post WWII Germany and Korea which were divided on account of an ideological battle beyond the realm of their respective populations, India balkanized along an internal fissure (engineered as it may have been) and each party has since socially engineered any historic link out of its public consciousness and instead replaced it with a separate identity (and virulent opinion of their former state). Either way, it is highly unlikely anyone is coming back to induct themselves into a greater Indian union. This brings me to something interesting you said in an earlier post:
S.A.T.A said:
The partition was the biggest tragedy that ever visited the Indian race...
I don't think the partition was something that visited the Indian race. Despite a slight rejuvenation thanks to Gandhi et al., the society of the Indian subcontinent was in tatters, relieved of its dignity, coherence and ability to remain firmly in control of its own destiny. Balkanization was merely the inevitable fate that tends to befall most unsuccessful societies that are under tremendous stress. Pakistan further succumbed to this phenomenon in 1971, and may possibly go for round 3.

IMHO the most important lesson that Indian history teaches us is that no matter how ingrained or elaborate a culture is, if the society as a whole is weak and dysfunctional, untold harm and tragedy can consume it. The sons of Bharata succumbed to this fatal illness a very, very long time ago, and hopefully lessons will be taken to avoid any further morbidity or mortality along similar lines.

Even in the dissimilar case of Germany, and possibly what may happen with Korea, one of the most influential factor in reunification has been economic and social progress. West Germany and South Korea's biggest appeal to their brethren across the arbitrary border was that both these countries had gone on to become extremely successful and genuinely developed nations. They had well functioning governments and their entire population had credible access to all critical needs of life such as education, healthcare, adequate nutrition, shelter and access to capital on fair terms. These factors made their societies genuinely wealthy, successful, modern and afforded all their citizens a higher standard of living. I think India would have to make significant steps in this direction before it can even dream of catering to its former parts in any significant position of authority.
 

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