Pakistan's Christians Mourn, and Fear for Their Future

Ray

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Pakistan's Christians Mourn, and Fear for Their Future

As they wailed and wept and prayed under the tin awning that shades the path into this clustered colony of small homes, the question on the minds the Pakistani Christians gathered in Gojra was expressed by a priest: "Who will protect us now?"

Last week's brutal assassination of Shahbaz Bhatti, Pakistan's Minorities Minister and sole Christian Cabinet minister, has united his coreligionists in despair — not for the first time. "Life here stopped in horror," says Pastor Zulfikar, as he is widely known in the community, of the moment that the news of Bhatti's murder had arrived. "We couldn't speak. We couldn't eat," he says, his voice growing thicker with emotion. "Our greatest leader had been martyred, and we began to worry again." (See pictures of Christianity under siege in the Muslim world.)

Pakistan's Christians have never had it easy. In a country consecrated as a Muslim homeland, their lives have long been subject to official discrimination and punctuated by violent attacks. But, 18 months ago, a new and intense ordeal began in Gojra, in this maze of overcrowded red brick homes, deep in Punjab province.

In August 2009, masked and armed militants went door-to-door, setting Christian homes ablaze. Where they saw Christians escaping the roaring flames, they opened fire, forcing them to flee in panic, clambering over nearby rooftops. The police had melted away at the start of the five-hour pogrom. And when it was over, nine people were dead, while 70 homes and three churches lay smoldering. (See pictures of Pakistan beneath the surface.)

Traces of that attack are still apparent. Some of the homes are yet to be rebuilt, with stacks of bricks and bags of cement further narrowing the dusty alleyways that divide rows of homes. Some of the culprits were arrested, but 29 still remain at large, as does the mullah who incited the attack, falsely accusing Gojra's Christians of desecrating the Koran. Most vivid, however, are the scars still etched on the survivors' memories.

"We were almost defenseless, and they had the most advanced weapons," recalls Kaiser Victor, a 32-year-old cleaner, whose mother and sister were burned alive. Like Victor, many of the colony's residents are municipal cleaners or perform other low-paying menial jobs. "In one minute, we could hear 30 or 40 bullets being fired," he adds. "We just had stones to throw back at them. Only two or three among us had guns." (See pictures from the suicide bombings in Islamabad.)

Naveed Fauji — whose last name derives from the Urdu word for soldier, his previous occupation — was one of them. "For two and a half hours, I fought them back with my pump-action shotgun," he says. From a rooftop, he intermittently returned fire, husbanding his small reserve of ammunition. Now, revered as a local hero, Fauji's army training is said to have saved the lives of the some 300 women who had taken shelter below, in his family's home.

Similar acts of heroism will be needed in the future, the residents say. Since Bhatti's assassination and the earlier killing of Punjab Governor Salmaan Taseer (who had spoken against the persecution of Christians), they feel no one is left to stand up for them. "The two men who came here to speak for us, Salmaan Taseer and Shahbaz Bhatti, have both been killed," says Zulfikar. "This country's leaders are no longer safe, so how will they protect us?" (See "Pakistan's Christians Fearful After Assassination.")

In the days after the 2009 attack, Taseer had visited, along with Bhatti, to console the victims. "If the kind of police that is here to protect me now was there at the time to protect them," the governor said at the time, gesturing toward his bodyguard, "then this tragedy wouldn't have happened." The irony, of course, was that it was one such guard that killed Taseer because of his opposition to blasphemy laws used to persecute Christians. Bhatti was slain for the same reason, his assassins said, in pamphlets left near his bullet-ridden and bloodstained car.

Prime Minister Yousuf Raza Gilani also went to Gojra soon after the attack to promise that any laws that discriminate against minorities would be reviewed. He has long abandoned that position in the face of widespread hostility whipped up by the religious right.

The blasphemy laws make the death penalty mandatory for anyone found to have insulted Islam and its Prophet. In practice, a mere accusation is enough to spark a mob's rage, often directed at Pakistan's vulnerable minorities, while the state remains complicit. "The injustice is that if two people get together and accuse one of us, we are sentenced to death," says Zulfikar. "There's no need of any proof, just one person's testimony." (Comment on this story.)

In Gojra, the police simply melted away. But in the case of Aasia Noreen, a farm worker from another part of Punjab who was last year hounded by a mob that accused her of blaspheming, the police actually facilitated her persecution, charging her with blasphemy after ostensibly taking her into protective custody. She became the first woman sentenced to death in Pakistan, and it was in her defense that Taseer and Bhatti rose to renew their calls for the laws to be reformed. But their pleas were cast by opponents as acts of blasphemy as well. Taseer's death was celebrated at large rallies, led by the religious right. The law's keenest champions, of course, have little patience with due process and prefer to take matters into their own hands.

That's what keeps one family hiding in a state of constant fear. Last July, two brothers, Rashid and Sajid Emmanuel, were shot dead outside a Faisalabad courtroom where they were being tried on charges of blasphemy. The family denies that pair did anything wrong. Leaflets were circulated, accusing them of having scrawled messages insulting Islam's Prophet. The handwriting didn't match, but the two men's parents and siblings have never found shelter since, regularly shifting locations and changing phone numbers.

"Why do they kill us Christians?" asks their weeping mother, Rani Emmanuel. The community suffers from as much a caste prejudice as a religious one. In Punjab, most of the Christians were formerly low-caste Hindus, branded as "dirty" by Pakistani bigots, and many are able to find work only as cleaners. They are afforded little protection by the state and lack the means to pay for their own. It is little wonder, then, that after Bhatti's assassination, many desperately wish to leave.

"Today, I want to address Muhammad Ali Jinnah," Asiya Nasir, a Christian lawmaker told parliament, pointing accusingly at the portrait of the country's founder. "You told us to come here and make a home with you. When the Gojra tragedy happened, I said that our future generations will ask us if we regret coming here. Now, we are filled with regret."

Read more: http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,2057632,00.html#ixzz1G2Lf671K
As far as the Christian minority of Pakistan, they have always been salvaged by the US and so the onus to save them is on the US and its various Christian organisations.

The report is incorrect in singling out the Christians being the only oppressed minority. They at least have the US, which has repeatedly salvaged them. It is the other minorities, who are persecuted in an even worse manner, who has no recognised saviour. India, has not reacted in the same manner as the US since it is a secular state and possibly has not the teeth that the US has.

Overall, the intolerance of Pakistan's majority religion, acutely influenced by the rabid radicals, is what is responsible for the miseries of the minorities of all hues and class as also for the tolerant voices within the Pakistan majority community.

Notwithstanding, there is little hope for the minorities in Pakistan.

Or, is there a way out to help these unfortuantes?
 

Tronic

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It has turned into a lawless country, run by goons. What else to expect?

In a country where gun laws are non-existant in enforcement, I'm clueless as to why they are not properly armed. 12 guage pump-action shotguns can do wonders. Just for their brute power, no one will dare step anywhere close to your home, forget torching it.
 

Awesome

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Good to see ya, out and about from the usual places :)

As far as the Christian minority of Pakistan, they have always been salvaged by the US and so the onus to save them is on the US and its various Christian organisations.

The report is incorrect in singling out the Christians being the only oppressed minority. They at least have the US, which has repeatedly salvaged them. It is the other minorities, who are persecuted in an even worse manner, who has no recognised saviour. India, has not reacted in the same manner as the US since it is a secular state and possibly has not the teeth that the US has.
No minority will be safe till the secularists of Pakistan don't gain momentum. They are by far the biggest persecuted minority, and the most resilient. Unfortunately the biggest travesty was committed when incidents like Taseer's murder happened and there was a systemic process of reporting "Oh the secularists have cowed down". They hadn't. But this statement was repeated over and over to pressurize them into silence. The truth was the channels that were supposed to highlight them had cowed down.

Secularism is a minority in Pakistan, but a damn strong one. #1 It's filled with very smart people. #2 The are daredevils and ready to show the finger to these blasphemy thumpers.

Overall, the intolerance of Pakistan's majority religion, acutely influenced by the rabid radicals, is what is responsible for the miseries of the minorities of all hues and class as also for the tolerant voices within the Pakistan majority community.

Notwithstanding, there is little hope for the minorities in Pakistan.

Or, is there a way out to help these unfortuantes?
Help would be counter-productive. The last thing we want is to be associated with support from US or worse - India. The thing is secularists have to fight this fight for Pakistan like their patriotic duty. We can be killed, but so what, we can be killed doing so many things anyway. This plague of intolerance runs deep, it doesn't even feel like intolerance to some very good people. Killing a person who insults Islam just seems like the absolute right thing to do, to these people. This is a perceived truth.

The game plan from the secularists is to question, and keep questioning set truths.
 

nitesh

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Pakistani secularists, which breed is this? And when did it born?
 

Rage

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Help would be counter-productive. The last thing we want is to be associated with support from US or worse - India. The thing is secularists have to fight this fight for Pakistan like their patriotic duty. We can be killed, but so what, we can be killed doing so many things anyway. This plague of intolerance runs deep, it doesn't even feel like intolerance to some very good people. Killing a person who insults Islam just seems like the absolute right thing to do, to these people. This is a perceived truth.

The game plan from the secularists is to question, and keep questioning set truths.

Asim, that's very quaint. Where do you live? I don't want to judge you, but this is all easier said than done.

Where are these 'daredevils'? What are they waiting for? The last strand to be pulled out?


The fact is: this is an existential war. You cannot fight it, because the nation on behalf of which you profess to fight it lends credence to both sides. It justifies an Islamic version of events, the supersedure of one community over another, a harsh interpretation of law- islamic or otherwise and everything else these c@@ns want to impose. You are yet to resolve first order issues of state, who you are and what you truly want to be. And there are no easy, clear-cut answers to these questions. There are no easy answers because, in the very initium ultimum: the very infinitesimal origins of your existence, the philosophical question of your existence is a paradoxical one. You were formed as a cultural-socio-political-anthropological refuge for the muslims of the subcontinent, yet are not truly one. So what really are you? And, in this ambiguity, who decides? I'd assume the majority. And wherein lies that majority: you or they? In this battle, You are alone and outnumbered, and fueled by the same patriotic passion that fuels them. Therefore, you will be chopped down, until there is no one left standing. As in at least one other muslim state that has confronted the same problem in the past: Turkey, the Army could've remained your last bastion. But even that has been permeated by the same venom you seek to root out- by its legitimization of the same organizations it once used as pawns, that've now eroded your social fabric. We told you this a long time ago, get rid of these organizations, Pakistan before they come back to bite you in the arse. We learned early, getting rid of the organizations that could've subsequently threatened our integral territorial union: the LTTE and the pro-Khalistan movement, and now we go further to take on the Maoists and their successors, but not before understanding the root cause of their struggle. In this struggle, you cannot win without addressing the philosophical foundation of this conflict; and I fear a resolution to that dispute may not be to your liking.
 
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Ray

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Pakistani secularists, which breed is this? And when did it born?
There are those like Sherry Rehman and also the assassinated Governor of Punjab.

They are a minority and to be fair, they lives are up for the grabs.

Rage,

Thanks to Zia, Pakistan has moved too far for even secularists to be able to reverse the change.

Yet, all power to the Pakistani secularists.

BTW, Asim is from Dubai and an old sparring partner turned friend of mine. We still agree to disagree but these days, on polite terms!! :)
 
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nitesh

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There are those like Sherry Rehman and also the assassinated Governor of Punjab.

They are a minority and to be fair, they lives are up for the grabs.
Sir, to be very honest, I don't see any iota of secularism in them, they are the same thugs as jinnah for whom Pakistan was built to enjoy the riches and maintain the feudalism intact and now squealing because they are not able to enjoy those.
 

Ray

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Help would be counter-productive. The last thing we want is to be associated with support from US or worse - India. The thing is secularists have to fight this fight for Pakistan like their patriotic duty. We can be killed, but so what, we can be killed doing so many things anyway. This plague of intolerance runs deep, it doesn't even feel like intolerance to some very good people. Killing a person who insults Islam just seems like the absolute right thing to do, to these people. This is a perceived truth.

The game plan from the secularists is to question, and keep questioning set truths.
Asim,

The situation has gone beyond the power of the secularists in Pakistan, who are the educated elite like you and who have foreign exposure.

While India, true to being the soft power that it is, will do nothing, not even a statement.

However, the US will act as it has done all the time, thanks to their powerful right wing Christian organisations.
 

Ray

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Sorry about the Closed Thread.
 

Tronic

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Asim. Been a while mate. Good to see you around.

Good to see ya, out and about from the usual places :)


No minority will be safe till the secularists of Pakistan don't gain momentum. They are by far the biggest persecuted minority, and the most resilient. Unfortunately the biggest travesty was committed when incidents like Taseer's murder happened and there was a systemic process of reporting "Oh the secularists have cowed down". They hadn't. But this statement was repeated over and over to pressurize them into silence. The truth was the channels that were supposed to highlight them had cowed down.

Secularism is a minority in Pakistan, but a damn strong one. #1 It's filled with very smart people. #2 The are daredevils and ready to show the finger to these blasphemy thumpers.


Help would be counter-productive. The last thing we want is to be associated with support from US or worse - India. The thing is secularists have to fight this fight for Pakistan like their patriotic duty. We can be killed, but so what, we can be killed doing so many things anyway. This plague of intolerance runs deep, it doesn't even feel like intolerance to some very good people. Killing a person who insults Islam just seems like the absolute right thing to do, to these people. This is a perceived truth.

The game plan from the secularists is to question, and keep questioning set truths.
Unfortunately the power is slipping towards the uneducated and the down trodden masses. I wish the best for the secularists within Pakistan, but Zia killed away a lot of that secular cauldron, and today every time the radicals strike, a large portion of that educated moderate class freezes to stop and think whether they approve or not. It is no longer a gut reaction to oppose. The casualty inflicted by Zia on the moderate middle class was quite evident when we saw lawyer's flock to the defence of Mumtaz Qadri, garlanding him and showering him with rose petals. I would like to see the secularists in Pakistan win, but the odds are stacked against them. I hope it is not a repeat of the Afghan story where the upper and the educated middle classes have to pack their bags and leave the nation hostage to the downtrodden and poor masses. The Taliban have already begun infiltrating into the Pakistani heartland, namely, Southern Punjab; I wish all the best to the Pakistani secularists and would love to be wrong on this issue, but it is the fundamentalists who have gained ground year after year, and things do not bode well for the moderate and secular classes.
 

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The gravity of situation can be gauged by the fact that the most powerful institute in Pakistan, Pakistani Army has so far not condemned or made a statement against the killing of Salman Taseer or Bhatti. The silence is very deafening. I read some where that PA has refrained making any comments on these assassination because the Army officers fear that there will be uprising from lower ranks in the Army itself and might lead to more assassinations the way Qadri has assassinated Taseer.
 

Awesome

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Tronic, always a pleasure.

Let's be practical, what can India's role be, if any.

As an observer it can choose to criticize. Or it can choose to praise.

There are many positives going on in the pro-secularism fight in Pakistan the biggest positive being that despite the two high profile killings, the fight is still on, gaining momentum enough to trouble the Mullahs.

You see when we say the majority is non-secular, it does not mean they are pro-intolerance. These are the undecided lot, who are traditionalists. They go to mosque 5 times a day, they pay homage at shrines, do their duty to feed the needy and so on. To them the secularism debate is served by Mullahs like "Do you want to hate God? Do you want to insult the Prophet?"

These people are up for grabs, but currently it requires passing on a deeper understanding about what Freedom and secularism is. They are only anti-seculars by default and it is possible, not easy but possible, that they will support the right cause once the blurry lines get clearer. Right now there are too many issues, complicating the matter and we're trying to slowly unravel this mess.

The divide is quite apparent in Pakistan:

http://www.scpr.org/news/2010/05/17/in-pakistan-a-deepening-religious-secular-divide/

More than half of Pakistan's population is under the age of 25. This community of 102 million young people is in the midst of a battle that pits inward versus outward orientation and will play a significant role in the country's future. NPR's series on life along South Asia's Grand Trunk Road explores the divide.

A population of 102 million people under the age of 25 is a potent force anywhere. Added to Pakistan's combustible mix, they could be a political tsunami.

The South Asian nation's younger generation is not only large -- 58 percent of the total population of more than 174 million -- but also deeply divided among itself. It's in the midst of a battle between fundamentalism and secularism, inward versus outward orientation -- the influence of which will most certainly play a significant role in Pakistan's future.

On a recent day in Lahore, one of the great cities along the fabled Grand Trunk Road through India and Pakistan, small boys in skullcaps memorize verses from the Quran. They huddle over the holy book in a madrassa, a religious school, which is as old as Pakistan itself.

Touches of Lahore's resplendent Mogul architecture are visible in the arched passageways, where students have quiet conversations. Tuition is free at the Jamia Ashrafia madrassa and the interpretation of Islam is strict.

The Madrassa Student

The total enrollment numbers at Pakistan's madrassas differ widely, depending on the source. Moeed Yusef, an analyst at the U.S. Peace Institute who has been studying Pakistani youth, says figures range from 600,000 to 2 million -- relatively small numbers in densely populated Pakistan, but significant nonetheless.

"So they are a distinct minority of students, but 1 percent of 50 million is still 500,000 radicalized people," Yusef notes.

The influential Jamia Ashrafia serves some 3,000 mostly underprivileged students. Master's student Shakeel Ahmad's background, however, is a bit different: He enjoyed a comfortable upbringing, worked in journalism and law, and ran with a career-conscious crowd.

But the secular world that had enriched him financially left him impoverished spiritually. Ahmad, 32, found fulfillment at Jamia Ashrafia studying Islam, the faith upon which Pakistan is founded.

His personal story embodies the very conflict under way in Pakistan: whether to be worldly and Western or to look inward. Ahmad is uncompromising: Pakistan, he says, must adopt a fundamentalist religious course, including Shariah, or Islamic law.

"We are all fundamentalists because we believe in one book. That is a system that we have to bring, and whenever we try to bring that, difficult times will come. And we'll do it today or we'll do it 100 years after. That is the only solution. Otherwise things are going to go as they are," he says.

Ahmad hints at an Iranian-style revolution if Pakistan's ruling elite fails to recognize the realities facing the millions of uneducated poor in the country.

Students at the madrassa think the government is corrupt and that it's propped up by the United States. American troops in neighboring Afghanistan offend their faith.

Ahmad says Western influence is poisoning Pakistani identity.

"We are giving away our own values and our own religion, and that is never good. And you try to be not yourself but somebody else. So I think that's not natural," he says.

Ahmad believes that the invasion of American fashion, music and media is also polarizing Pakistani society.

"These kids that are following the West, they will find it hard to fit in this society because this is not us. You have to look at the larger population, and you cannot let these very few people dictate terms for them," Ahmad says.

When asked whether young people who are deeply influenced by the West, who are Facebook aficionados or frequent Starbucks, risk becoming strangers in their own land, Ahmad responds: "Yes, yes they do. They are. ... The divide is there."

Citizens Of The World

In a posh part of town just a few miles but a world away from the madrassa, Rana Noman Haq sits squarely on the Western side of the divide.

"We can't live a caveman's life anymore. Things have changed, times have changed," he says. "You have to modernize yourself ... you have to move forward with your life."

Haq, 31, splurges on European vacations and eats at McDonald's.

"You can't say 'no' to a nice juicy beef burger. You can't," he says, laughing.

Sitting at a trendy cafe next to his boutique, Haq argues that his worldly lifestyle is not incompatible with Islam -- and it is not diluting his Pakistani identity.

"That's what globalization is all about -- globally, everybody is coming together. We're still sticking to our values, but within that we are also comfortable with whatever [is] happening anywhere in the world," he says.

Haq's business partner, Sehr Murtaza Latif, says the West is being made a scapegoat. She's a 25-year-old who flaunts a Gucci bag and a defiant attitude about the rising conservatism in the country.

She says she doesn't feel any connection to students at the madrassas.

"Please, I just want to kill them all," Latif says, laughing. "No way. I get so angry when I just hear that."

"Look at what they are doing. Look at our image, look at Pakistan. I mean, this is who we are, this is what we are. We are not a bunch of conservative religious fundos [fundamentalists]. We're not. No. So that's what gets me angry," Latif says.

Haq interjects: "We're a peace-loving nation, and we just want to live and let live."

Except, of course, when it comes to the fundamentalists.

"That's why I want to kill them, right? That's why I said I want to shoot them all," Latif reiterates.

Vying For The Vast Middle

And that attitude, says 33-year-old businesswoman Kiran Chaudhry, is just as bad as that of the madrassa students.

"That is fundamentalism, right back at you. Isn't it?" she says.

The Oxford-educated entrepreneur says intolerance on both sides is deepening the divide. She says religious fundamentalism is gaining ground in Pakistan because millions of people are losing ground economically.

"The fact that people are poor, that there [are] no opportunities, there are no jobs. People don't have enough to eat. What do they do? They're actually just lying around waiting to die. These are very alarming conditions. ... Any kind of rallying point that allows people to overthrow the established system is going to take off. They just want change," she says.

Chaudhry is a lawyer by training -- and a night club events promoter and singer by profession.

She currently stars in the Pakistani production of Mamma Mia!, cast in the rollicking musical as a larger-than-life unwed mother -- not your usual fare for conservative Pakistan.

But in this entertainment-starved country, Chaudhry is determined to push the boundaries. She says the deeper the divide over culture and identity grows, the more she feels the need to remain in Pakistan.

"There are going to be two poles, and this is the one that needs strengthening and that's why we're here. You can't just run. This is our country, this is our home. There has to be moderate, enlightened, self-questioning going on," she says.

But the singer -- who calls her music her "religion" -- also wonders how long before she will be assailed for being "too secular."

Yusef, the U.S. Peace Institute analyst, says the warring poles each make up a small minority in Pakistan -- especially Western-oriented youth such as Chaudhry, Haq and Latif.

It is the great mass in the middle that will determine Pakistan's future.

But Yusef says a "creeping mindset" is pushing that middle toward the "religious right" and away from anything Western or secular.

"Because ultimately secularism as a concept is abhorred by most Pakistanis. So if they have to pick a side, it's going to end up being this right-wing sort of wave that we find in Pakistan today," Yusef says. "So again, this may not be religious fanaticism, but this is a very deep-rooted sense of being culturally conservative."

Even as the modern world presses in, it is the culturally conservative and deeply religious self-image of Pakistan that may prove as enduring as the country's centuries-old Grand Trunk Road. Copyright 2010 National Public Radio. To see more, visit http://www.npr.org/.
 

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Asim,

What India can do as a spectator. I'm not too sure. IMO, Criticizing or praising the secularists will only have the reverse affect. Being criticized or praised by India will probably only weaken their own resolve.

As for the article. It has re-iterated more or less my previous post. There is a class divide in Pakistan, and it will essentially be a class war. It is nothing alien to the subcontinent; India has its own share, with the downtrodden turning towards communist ideology and grouping together as the Maoists. The difference is in the economy; where India is able to woo its lower classes by its growing economy, the Pakistani government has left the lower classes hopeless. Long term betterment of Pakistan will only come with economic and inclusive growth in Pakistan where the lower classes also benefit. In the meanwhile, the Pakistani middle class has to find another methodology to fend off fundamentalism.

I will also re-iterate that Zia has played spoilsport here, as the new middle class itself has been educated to be rightist. Normally societies become less conservative and more liberal with time, but in Pakistan it has been the reverse. I see the older generation of Pakistanis being more liberal and tolerant than the newer generation of Pakistanis (barring the upper class). Also Asim, you talk of traditionalists, 5 times prayer, visiting shrines, et all, is perfectly normal and part of a person's own Imaan, or as Sikhs say, Shardah. These chaps are not the threat. The threat in the middle class comes from the people who try to disassociate from Pakistan's own culture, and look up to the Arabs, primarily the Saudis for inspiration. I know several such Pakistani chaps, who admit that they are not able to read the 5 times obligatory namaaz, but they vehemently oppose praying at shrines and other aspects of local sufi culture, and try to tow the Saudi fundamentalist line. It would still be alright if they kept these rules for their own personal selves; but they themselves may not be regular practitioners of their own religion, but they wish to impose these Saudi inspired fundamentalism onto the rest of their fellow countrymen. Infact, one of the chaps, a Muhajir if it matters, passionately argued that Sufi culture is not part of Pakistan as Pakistan is a Sunni country; calling it preposterous for Sunnis to be following aspects of Sufi culture. :rolleyes:
 

Awesome

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Asim,

What India can do as a spectator. I'm not too sure. IMO, Criticizing or praising the secularists will only have the reverse affect. Being criticized or praised by India will probably only weaken their own resolve.
That I agree with. However the support should be to Pakistan as a nation, not a particular group. For example, India and the world should acknowledge the nation's positives in its efforts towards secularizing the governance system. I agree it would play counterproductive if India says "We support xyz group, for their efforts towards secularization". Being called "Indian collaborators" is a funny trend in Pakistan something I'm only too familiar with.

I will also re-iterate that Zia has played spoilsport here, as the new middle class itself has been educated to be rightist.
I would go one step further and say that we now need to stop blaming a dead guy, 30 years later. It's time to own up to the issues of Pakistan as ours.

Normally societies become less conservative and more liberal with time, but in Pakistan it has been the reverse. I see the older generation of Pakistanis being more liberal and tolerant than the newer generation of Pakistanis (barring the upper class).
That is also not really clear cut. If you see things like Valentines day, Dance parties, alcohol consumption, music, TV entertainment, fashion models, literature and even promiscuity is on the rise. What's happened is that the liberalism is growing at a normal steady pace. However the conservatism while not outgrown the liberalism, it has increased in intensity.

Where in Zia's time people would fear the police coming and arresting you for 'immoral' behavior, now you may get shot for it by just about anyone.

That's why its not clear, because you goto Lahore and every other chick is imitating the latest trends from Star Plus soap operas, the funky eyebrows n all. But on the flip side, killings, suicide bombings are going on too. The surveys almost always pick up on the traditionalists as the extremists.
 

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Sir I wouldn't call funky eyebrows, alcohol and tight jeans an exact parameter of a balanced, progress oriented moderate society. I've seen people of stone age mentality consuming alcohol and wearing jeans.
The thought process and ideals of Pakistani society as a whole are something to watch for. If we had a significant change there, the response to Salman Taseer and the Minorities minister's killings would not have been so meek. As someone recently said - "the pak civil society is on retreat" and I believe they are the real minority in pakistan. The almost extinct minority.

Regards,
Virendra
 

sandeepdg

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What's happened is that the liberalism is growing at a normal steady pace. However the conservatism while not outgrown the liberalism, it has increased in intensity.
From the looks of it, to the outside world, conservatism is fast outgrowing whatever liberalism there is, and will soon vanish altogether if fanaticism is not checked in Pakistan.
 

Ray

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Asim,

It is good that you, Tarek and others have taken it on your shoulder to cleanse the society of the fundamentalist and bring rationality. It is also good that you have spoken on the BBC and you are doing your bit.

Reading your posts, I am confused.

While I wish people like you well, but the schizophrenia that seems to be within Pakistan, is too muddled for resolution in a simple, clear cut manner.

The spectre of Zia has to be kept relevant to prove to the people that his misguided so called religious zeal was a façade. It was merely to rope in Islam and the clergy to give legitimacy to his illegal usurped regime. His adventure into Afghanistan was justified from the Islamic standpoint, but to abandon Afghanistan having done the damage just like the US, has done more harm to Pakistan than good. It has given rise to the unruly rabble, which in concert with the ethnically similar people on the Pakistani side of the Durand Line, is shaking the very concept of Pakistan!! If not controlled, will give rise to secessionist tendencies, leading to encouragement of Balkanisation of Pakistan!!

Zia's selfish motives for legitimacy by roping in religion and the clergy has also led to the violent surfacing of the sectarian divide amongst the Muslims, the Sunnis and the Shia, and both being Muslims believing in the Koran and the Prophet!!

That apart, this total confusion that is prevalent in Pakistan, thanks to Zia's legacy, has also sharpened the divide between the Punjabis and the Mohajirs. All said and done, the Mohajirs are the ones who still call the shots being more intelligent and well versed in governance.

BTW can you give the statistics of Mohajirs and the rest in governance, business, trade, industry, judiciary to include lawyers etc?

Whether you like it or not, the Mohajirs still do not have the place in Pakistan's society that they deserve thanks to their contribution and presence. Even the capital of Pakistan was shifted from a Mohajir dominated area into Punjab!!

It is not for me to comment, but all I can say is that I wish you and Tarek the best of luck.

Also hopefully, you can establish your idea in your forum.
 

nitesh

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I am unable to understand the zeal with wish we all curse zia for bringing islamists to the front. What people here think that before zia got in to power, Pakistan was a land of milk and honey?
 

Ray

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Asim,

Here is an article that you may read.

Thursday, March 10, 2011

A deathly silence grips Pakistan

By GWYNNE DYER

LONDON — At least with a dictatorship, you know where you are — and if you know where you are, you may be able to find your way out. In Pakistan, it is not so simple.

While brave Arab protesters are overthrowing deeply entrenched autocratic regimes, often without even resorting to violence, Pakistan, a democratic country, is sinking into a sea of violence, intolerance and extremism. The world's second-biggest Muslim country (185 million people) has effectively been silenced by ruthless Islamist fanatics who murder anyone who dares to defy them.

What the fanatics want, of course, is power, but the issue on which they have chosen to fight is Pakistan's laws against blasphemy. They not only hunt down and kill people who fall afoul of these laws, should the courts see fit to free them. They have also begun killing anybody who publicly advocates changing the laws.

Salman Taseer, the governor of the Punjab, Pakistan's richest and most populous province, was murdered by his own bodyguard in January because he criticized the blasphemy laws and wanted to change them. He said that he would go on fighting them even if he was the last man standing — and in a very short time he was no longer standing. But one man still was: Shahbaz Bhatti.

Bhatti was shot down March 2. The four men who ambushed his car and filled him with bullets left a note saying: "In your fight against Allah, you have become so bold that you act in favor of and support those who insult the Prophet . . . And now, with the grace of Allah, the warriors of Islam will pick you out one by one and send you to Hell."

Shahbaz Bhatti was not a rich and powerful man like Salman Taseer, nor even a major power in the ruling Pakistan People's Party (PPP) that they both belonged to. He was the only Christian member of the Cabinet, mainly as a token representative of the country's 3 million Christians, but he had hardly any influence outside that community. Nevertheless, he refused to stop criticizing the blasphemy laws even after Taseer's murder, so they killed him too.

That leaves only Sherry Rehman, the last woman standing. A flamboyant member of Parliament whose mere appearance enrages the beards, she has been a bold and relentless critic of the blasphemy laws — and since Taseer's murder she has lived in hiding, moving every few days. But she will not shut up until they shut her up.

And that's it. The rest of the country's political and cultural elite have gone silent, or pander openly to the fanatics and the bigots. The PPP was committed to changing the blasphemy laws only six months ago, but after Taseer was killed President Asif Ali Zardari assured a gathering of Islamic dignitaries that he had no intention of reviewing the blasphemy laws. Although they are very bad laws.

In 1984 Gen. Zia ul-Haq, the dictator who ruled Pakistan from 1977 to 1988, made it a criminal offense for members of the Ahmadi sect, now some 5 million strong, to claim that they were Muslims. In 1986 he instituted the death penalty for blasphemy against the prophet Muhammad. No subsequent government has dared to repeal these laws, which are widely used to victimize the Ahmadi and Christian religious minorities.

Ahmadis and Christians account for at most 5 percent of Pakistan's population, but almost half of the thousand people charged under this law since 1986 belonged to those communities. Most accusations were false, arising from disputes over land, but once made they could be a death sentence.

Higher courts generally dismissed blasphemy charges, recognizing that they were a tactic commonly used against Christians and Ahmadis in local disputes over land, but 32 people who were freed by the courts were subsequently killed by Islamist vigilantes — as were two of the judges who freed them.

The current crisis arose when a Christian woman, Aasia Bibi, was sentenced to death last November, allegedly for blaspheming against the prophet Muhammad. Pakistan's liberals mobilized against the blasphemy laws — and discovered that they were an endangered species.

The murders of Salman Taseer and Shahbaz Bhatti were bad, but even worse was the way that the political class and the bulk of the mass media responded. A majority of a population fully supports the blasphemy laws, making it very costly for politicians to act against it even if the fanatics don't kill them. Political cowardice reigns supreme, and so Pakistan falls slowly under the thrall of the extremists.

Being a democracy is no help, it turns out, because democracy requires people to have the courage of their convictions. Very few educated Pakistanis believe that people should be executed because of a blasphemy charge arising out of some trivial village dispute, but they no longer dare to say so. Including the president.

"We will not be intimidated nor will we retreat," said Zardari on March 3, but he has already promised the beards that the blasphemy laws will not be touched.

Nor is it very likely that the murderers of Taseer or Bhatti will be tracked down and punished. You could get killed trying to do that.
Gwynne Dyer is a London-based independent journalist and historian whose columns appear in 45 countries.

http://search.japantimes.co.jp/cgi-bin/eo20110310gd.html
 

Tronic

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That I agree with. However the support should be to Pakistan as a nation, not a particular group. For example, India and the world should acknowledge the nation's positives in its efforts towards secularizing the governance system. I agree it would play counterproductive if India says "We support xyz group, for their efforts towards secularization". Being called "Indian collaborators" is a funny trend in Pakistan something I'm only too familiar with.
It may be best for India to stay quite, because we have seen the amount of lip service the Americans have provided that even most Pakistanis today have started to see it as a joke, with the likes of Mr10%s and other corrupt elitists in power. Its a class struggle and till the lower rung of society start to see some betterment, the problems wont go.

I would go one step further and say that we now need to stop blaming a dead guy, 30 years later. It's time to own up to the issues of Pakistan as ours.
Asim, that dead guy left behind a legacy in the Pakistani education system which has raised an entire generation of people different than their fathers.

That is also not really clear cut. If you see things like Valentines day, Dance parties, alcohol consumption, music, TV entertainment, fashion models, literature and even promiscuity is on the rise. What's happened is that the liberalism is growing at a normal steady pace. However the conservatism while not outgrown the liberalism, it has increased in intensity.

Where in Zia's time people would fear the police coming and arresting you for 'immoral' behavior, now you may get shot for it by just about anyone.

That's why its not clear, because you goto Lahore and every other chick is imitating the latest trends from Star Plus soap operas, the funky eyebrows n all. But on the flip side, killings, suicide bombings are going on too. The surveys almost always pick up on the traditionalists as the extremists.
As I said, it is the type of thinking one carries. I have found older Pakistanis, who are more conservative yet moderate, are more tolerant than the younger generation which may be more liberal, but is more rightist leaning. Well, its confusing to me as even I know that these chaps have no idea what they are supporting, but I think the biggest problem here is, identity confusion. They don't know what they are suppose to be as Pakistanis, liberal and secular, or conservative and right wing. I was told by one Pakistani that it is sad that there are still idols being worshiped in Pakistan, and than later on the same argued why Pakistan's minorities should be free and welcomed. Identity confusion!! They are quite literally torn between two sides.
 

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