Pakistani Military Developments/feb-june 09

Discussion in 'Pakistan' started by A.V., Feb 18, 2009.

  1. F-14

    F-14 Global Defence Moderator Senior Member

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  2. Pintu

    Pintu New Member

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    LF Sir, I don't think PA has any intention to fight Taliban off, what I think that this operation (if any operation going on) is only an effort get donor money from The USA, as Pak PM about to visit The USA, in coming days, in my opinion it is a 'show business' at the expense of the unarmed civilians of the country.

    Regards
     
  3. Vinod2070

    Vinod2070 मध्यस्थ Stars and Ambassadors

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    Pakistan's army: as inept as it is corrupt!

    Pakistan's army: as inept as it is corrupt | Mustafa Qadri | Comment is free | guardian.co.uk
     
  4. Vinod2070

    Vinod2070 मध्यस्थ Stars and Ambassadors

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    Well, it may be a bit alarmist. Pakistani army may have shown gross incompetence at times but it is still a good fighting force, especially against India.

    It may still fail the nation, by being obsessed with India. Also it has a long history of strategic overreach and costly miscalculations.

    The current one may be it's last!
     
  5. Vinod2070

    Vinod2070 मध्यस्थ Stars and Ambassadors

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    Book shines light on Pakistan military's '£10bn empire' | World news | The Guardian
     
  6. Yusuf

    Yusuf GUARDIAN Administrator

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    "
    I dont understand why they dont send the Punjabis to fight there? They are not great friends of the Pashtuns are they?

    They will fail not because they are obsessed with India, but because they are not obsessed with the extremists who want to take over the country.
     
  7. Vinod2070

    Vinod2070 मध्यस्थ Stars and Ambassadors

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    I guess they fear that it would make it a Punjabi Vs. Pushtun affair. I don't think that is necessarily wrong either.

    Also I don't think the units sent to fight the Taliban are exclusively Pushtun. Their officers would be mostly Punjabi too.

    I think the latter follows from the former.
     
  8. Pintu

    Pintu New Member

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    A great article Vinodji, regards and kudos for it , the time came for the world to see the face of the Pakistan Army .

    However , there are two very vital points in the article author was wrong in mentioning :

    1. It was the princely state force of Jammu and Kashmir that was overwhelmed by the invaders, not Indian soldiers, as Jammu and Kashmir was an Independent Princely state on that time 22 -28 Oct. 1947.

    2. Pakistan was curved out of not only Northern India but also Eastern India in 1947. Eastern Part liberated and named as Bangladesh.

    Regards
     
  9. Yusuf

    Yusuf GUARDIAN Administrator

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    Its a grave mistake on their part to overlook the extremists on their land and be obsessed with the ones across the border.
    I wonder if its their some kind of (misplaced) thinking that if they dont take action against the extremists and keep playing the India card, then the US will try to broker some kind of a solution on Kashmir. So far US has refused.
     
  10. Vinod2070

    Vinod2070 मध्यस्थ Stars and Ambassadors

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    You are totally right on both counts. There is a tendency among many Pakistanis to find all kinds of excuses for that debacle including that the original Lahore declaration of 1940 wanted them to be two separate countries anyway!
     
  11. Known_Unknown

    Known_Unknown Devil's Advocate Stars and Ambassadors

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    I think it's because the Pakjabis have a deferential regard for the Pathans. They consider them to be some sort of rugged wild west warriors of Islam, maybe due to the fact that most Islamic invaders into the Punjab have historically been from Afghanistan. A Pakistani once told me that what was wrong with the Indian army was that it recruited from all strata of society, leading to a deterioration of its fighting character. On the other hand, he said, Pathans formed the backbone of the PA. Our Pathans are like your Sikhs, he said, me being quite unsure of what exactly he meant.
     
  12. Vinod2070

    Vinod2070 मध्यस्थ Stars and Ambassadors

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    That and the habit of negotiating with a gun on their head.

    They think the world will not let them fail and always save it from themselves. That's why the desire to push the envelope so to speak, take one more action more stupid than the last one, going to the brink and then saying "save us or else..."!

    I think there is one brinkmanship too many this time. It just had to happen one day.
     
  13. Vinod2070

    Vinod2070 मध्यस्थ Stars and Ambassadors

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    I think they loath each other. The Punjabis only want to use them in a war with India but otherwise think of them as no better than chowkidars! Look at all the Pathan jokes.

    The Pushtuns have nothing but contempt for the Punjabis. They consider them inferior "Hindustanis".

    But you are right, the Pathan does make for a good warrior.
     
  14. Known_Unknown

    Known_Unknown Devil's Advocate Stars and Ambassadors

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    The Pathans may not may not loath the Pakjabis, I dunno, the Pakistani I was talking too was a Pakjabi, from Lahore no less. I haven't heard any Pathan jokes, but there are also Gurkha and Sardarji jokes in India, but no one loathes those communities here.

    Although most Iranians and Afghans I have met online think Pakistan is an artificial state and Pakistani muslims are somehow inferior to them.
     
  15. Su-47

    Su-47 Regular Member

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    hence the need to name their missiles in Arabic, or after some great Muslim leader. To show all that they too are equal to the Arabs and Afghans.

    But honestly, i dunno how the Arabs and Afghans think they are superior than others. Arabs got rich on oil, but have no innovation. Take away the natural resources, ie the oil, and they are screwed worse than a gypsy whore.

    As for the Afghans, just look at Afghanistan. Its worse than a trash heap. millions of them still live in Pakistan as refugees, and they still think they are better thank the Pakistanis. Pathetic.
     
  16. Known_Unknown

    Known_Unknown Devil's Advocate Stars and Ambassadors

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    I think it's to do with some sort of purity. The Arabs think of Pakistani Muslims as dark, impure, converted subcontinental Muslims. Since they're from the land of Mohammad, they consider themselves to be the most superior. The Iranians consider themselves to be the inheritors of an ancient and great civilization, and consider Pakistan to be an artificial state which broke off from the Indian civilization. Likewise, the Afghans have a clear national identity, and every tribe there has some warrior or another as their hero, whether it be Mahmud of Gazni or Ghori, or Ahmed Shah Durrani, Abdali etc. The ancestors of the Pakistanis are the people who were repeatedly pillaged, raped and forcibly converted to Islam by the Afghans. So Afghans think they're naturally superior.

    I need to stress though, that these are views I've heard on Afghan and Iranian forums. Not necessarily representative of Afghanis and Iranians as a whole. Maybe only representative of their internet populations.
     
  17. Rage

    Rage DFI TEAM Stars and Ambassadors

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    3 soldiers dead, 5 hurt as Taliban attack army convoy

    4 May 2009, 1755 hrs IST, AFP


    PESHAWAR: A peace deal in Pakistan appeared close to unravelling Monday as deadly fighting raged between soldiers and militants in the northwest, sparking Taliban threats of fierce resistance.

    Tensions are soaring between the government, which is under US pressure to extend an offensive to crush militants, and Taliban hardliners, who rejected a new Islamic appeals court created in a bid to pacify their brutal uprising.

    Analysts said the shaky three-month-old deal — establishing sharia courts in a northwest region home to three million in the hope that the Taliban would stop fighting and disarm — was now hanging by a thread.

    Three soldiers died and five were wounded in fighting in northwest Pakistan Monday, including an officer killed when militants ambushed an army convoy in the former ski resort of Swat, the army said. The Taliban claimed responsibility for the attack.

    "We vow to carry out similar attacks in future if security forces try to enter Swat," spokesman Muslim Khan said.

    "We will give a fitting reply to security forces if Sufi Mohammad decides to revoke the deal with the government," he added, referring to the cleric who negotiated a peace deal between the two sides in February.

    The military said it killed seven militants, including a man they identified as "an important militant commander" named Afsar Hameed, in its latest offensive in Swat's neighbouring district of Buner.

    The government's decision to sign the February pact, ratified by President Asif Ali Zardari last month, was heavily criticised at home and abroad, with opponents arguing it would merely embolden the Taliban.

    For 10 days, military helicopter gunships and ground troops have fought hundreds of armed Taliban who thrust further south and east into the districts of Lower Dir and Buner where the deal also theoretically holds sway.

    The army claims to have killed scores of militants in the two districts, although their tolls are impossible to verify. Thousands of civilians are believed to have fled the army bombardment.

    On Sunday, the authorities slapped a curfew on Swat's main town Mingora for the first time since the agreement in an edict defied by armed Taliban who openly patrolled the streets.

    On the same day, local authorities found two beheaded soldiers in Swat's Taliban bastion Khwaza Khela.

    "Once again fear is gripping the entire town," a Mingora resident said, describing militants pacing the streets with guns. "Do not give my name because the Taliban will find me and kill me."

    Pakistan's army confirmed armed militants marching in Mingora, which they said was a "gross violation" but said security forces were "exercising restraint to honour the peace agreement".

    But a provincial cabinet minister from Swat threatened the Taliban with further military offensives after they rejected the Islamic appeals court announced by the government late Saturday.

    "We will try to resolve issues through negotiation, but if they refuse to abide by the peace agreement, the government will have no option but launch an operation against them," said forestry minister Wajid Ali Khan.

    Ameer Izzat Khan, spokesman for Sufi Mohammad, said peace depended on whether sharia law was implemented correctly — which critics have argued is too subjective.

    "The peace agreement is almost finished now, because the military operation has been launched and the Taliban have also renewed their attacks," northwest affairs expert Rahimullah Yousafzai said.

    Zardari, who is hoping to secure a massive US aid package, will discuss the deteriorating situation with President Barack Obama at the White House on Wednesday.

    Obama has called Zardari's government "very fragile" and Secretary of State Hillary Clinton accused Pakistan of "basically abdicating" to the Taliban in the northwest, which they have branded the biggest terror threat to the West.

    According to the New York Times, the US government is increasingly worried about the vulnerability of Pakistan's nuclear arsenal and is less willing to accept blanket assurances from Islamabad that the weapons are safe.


    3 soldiers dead, 5 hurt as Taliban attack army convoy - Pakistan - World - The Times of India
     
  18. Vinod2070

    Vinod2070 मध्यस्थ Stars and Ambassadors

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    You are mostly right. Racism is not a monopoly of any culture, almost all of us are guilty of that.

    However, these guys claim to represent an egalitarian religion and still are some of the worst racists around! The same goes for Pakistanis.
     
  19. Rage

    Rage DFI TEAM Stars and Ambassadors

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    7 including 6 security men killed in Khyber checkpoint attack

    Updated at: 1045 PST, Tuesday, May 05, 2009

    [​IMG]

    PESHAWAR: Seven people including six security personnel killed in a suicide attack in Khyber Agency on Tuesday.

    According to police sources, six security personnel were killed in an attack on Bara Qadeem checkpoint.

    Police sources said a suicide bomber rammed his explosive-laden car into a vehicle carrying security officials. Ten people including FC personnel and some schoolchildren were also wounded. The injured were shifted to different hospitals in Peshawar where some of them reported in a critical condition. The blast severely damaged the nearby houses.


    7 including 6 security men killed in Khyber checkpoint attack

    x=x=x=x=x=x=x=x=x=x=x=x=x=x=x=x=x=x=x=x=x=x=x=x=x


    Seven killed, 48 injured in Bara suicide car blast


    Wednesday, May 06, 2009


    PESHAWAR: At least seven persons were killed and another 48 injured on Tuesday when a suicide bomber rammed his car into Bara Qadeem checkpost in Sarband police station precincts. The dead include two schoolchildren and a Frontier Corps (FC) personnel.

    The Bara Qadeem checkpost is situated on Peshawar-Bara Road, around 12 kilometres west of Peshawar Cantonment, close to Khyber Agency. manzoor ali shah


    Daily Times - Leading News Resource of Pakistan
     
  20. Rage

    Rage DFI TEAM Stars and Ambassadors

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    Militants besiege 46 security men in Mingora

    Tuesday, 05 May, 2009 | 04:54 AM PST |

    [​IMG]
    Militants takes control of Mingora after attacking the
    headquarters of security forces and the police station.—AP



    MINGORA: The Taliban took control of the city of Mingora on Monday and reportedly laid siege to a place which housed 46 security personnel.

    ‘This is a clear violation of the Swat peace agreement,’ an official who did not want to be identified said. He said militants were patrolling the streets and holding positions at key points and on important buildings.

    According to sources, militants attacked the headquarters of security forces located in the circuit house and a police station in Mingora, but attacks were repulsed.

    The local administration imposed a curfew for an indefinite period after the attacks. Earlier, the curfew was in force from 7pm to 6am.Clashes between security forces and militants were reported from Shamozai, Matta and Bahrain.

    However, no casualty was reported till late night. Police have confined their activities to police stations.

    A group of armed Taliban stormed the Rahimabad police station in Mingora on Monday night and blew it up. Local people said policemen had vacated the station just before the attack.

    Security forces have also established checkposts and started searching vehicles in the area. Shops and markets in the main Mingora bazaar remained closed for the second day because of fear and tension.

    According to a handout issued by the NWFP information department, the Taliban continued their activities despite the peace accord they had signed with the government.

    Over the past 16 days, five people were killed and 21 kidnapped by the militants. Three incidents of blasts and several cases of car-snatching, looting and firing, erecting road blockades and armed patrolling by militants had been reported from different parts of the district, the handout said.

    Militants blew up a government high school for boys in Tindodag area of Swat on Monday. It was the second government school blown up after the February 16 peace accord. On Sunday, a government high school for boys had been blown up in Nengolai.

    Meanwhile, Taliban spokesman Muslim Khan claimed responsibility for the attack on a convoy in Swat on Monday in which one soldier was killed and three others suffered injuries.

    He said the attack was a reaction to what he called movement of military forces to positions in violation of the February 16 peace deal. He said the Taliban would carry out such attacks if security forces continued their activities in the valley.


    DAWN.COM | Provinces | Militants besiege 46 security men in Mingora
     

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