Pakistani Military Developments/feb-june 09

Discussion in 'Pakistan' started by A.V., Feb 18, 2009.

  1. Pintu

    Pintu New Member

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    Dear Kommunist ,

    In my personal opinion I think the claim by Pakistan Military is some how exaggerated, and if the USA thinks that Pakistan Army is capable for destroying Taliban in 2 weeks then they should bear this responsibility on themselves , because Pakistan Army is not capable on destroy Taliban not even in two years.

    Regards
     
  2. Pintu

    Pintu New Member

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    Thanks Dare Devil for the update, How ever one thing I can not understand that what Gen. Khan wanted to say by saying that Army will fight until it captures All of Bajaur, may it be rubble of stones as Artillery Shelling and Air Raid made the area of Stone age, but important fact is that he means , PA's fight will simply end after that ? It simply means that whole act is nothing but eyewash , with expense of the life of the unarmed civilians.

    Regards
     
  3. K Factor

    K Factor A Concerned Indian Senior Member

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    I was not talking about ability. but will and intent. And I think PA is fully capable of defeating taliban "if they want, and try it sincerely".
    But the intent and will is lacking and I was asking the fact that is that if they dont defeat talibunnies in 2 weeks, then what happens? what will US do? they can do nothing, as Pakistan holds US by the balls, which is Karachi, the only military supply port for ISAF forces in A-stan.
     
  4. Pintu

    Pintu New Member

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    ^^^Kommunist in paper it is possible, but in practical is very much uphill task and near impossible therefore making the work impossible as I think , with radicalization of the Pak Army and Taliban lives on by the deserters of the Pak Army, an also has many sympathizers in PA. It is supported fully by ISI, if ISI is not in favour of Army then simply how can they succeed.

    Regards
     
  5. thakur_ritesh

    thakur_ritesh Administrator Administrator

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    PA's offensive against the taliban looks like an eyewash, probably they have lost credibility to such an extent that even if they are acting against them in which ever way the pill is too bitter to be swallowed. i will be keen on knowing the big names they have killed so far and if there is a no show on that front then it is very clear the operations are as fake as the so-called numerous such fakes attacks that have happened in the past.


    surprisingly the moment washington started talking tough first hilary where she stated if pa does not act then they will act, the withdrawal by the taliban was announced, one wonders what happened to taliban with in 12 hours to that statement but then as the report came isi contacted them and asked them to move back or should i say the pa GHQ ordered them to make a retreat. hard to even believe isi works independent of pa which as a matter of fact is just an extension of the pa but hey those must be the rouge elements working in their own capacity, at times one even wonders is the whole pa rouge and may be the answer lies in the numerous coups they have done on their own country. then it was obama talking tough who has tried to set a tone for the forth coming meeting he will have with zardari who will be on an official visit to the US for the first time as the pres of pakistan, to as recent as gen. petraeus asking pa to finish off with taliban within a time span of two weeks. all this shows one thing for sure the will in the pa is missing to take any concrete action against the taliban and these actions are taking place purely as a result of pressure being built by the US administration on them. all the talk of muslim brotherhood and their lower ranks not ready to attack the pakhtuns was another farce as they have well demonstrated that all such talk went for a toss in baluchistan not so long back in 2006 when bukti was killed in a cold blooded murder to as recent as past week where they killed 3 baluch leaders which has brought life to a stand still there.


    the two reasons one can sense are behind this offensive. one as has been pointed out the economic aid they want so they need to show that some action has happened on the ground and second with zardari heading to the US he has to show he deserves to stay and so does the ppp at the helm of affairs in pakistan or else it could very well be a good bye for zardari & co.


    now the question that comes to mind is if there was no such pressures on pakistan from the outside world would they have done nothing of the things that they have been forced to do now no matter how fake the present offensive might be and would they have allowed the taliban to run the roust in islamabad, i guess the answer is yes and if i am right by any stretch of imagination then was this the pakistan that was envisioned by jinnha and the co founders of pakistan and the answer is a certain no. a thought comes to my mind which says, what a waste of a country, precious lives that were lost in 1947 and opportunity!
     
  6. Shiny Capstar

    Shiny Capstar Defence Professionals Defence Professionals

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    With their current political state being as it is the losses that would be incurred through weeding the Taliban out using mainly infantry and light support would be disastrous for the current Government. Most people over there still don't see it as their war, and until they do they will be unwilling to accept the large casualties that their army fighting properly (as in moving out of their bases and taking back the occupied land) will bring.
    They need to realise they are fighting for their national survival, not for America's war. Some do, but not nearly enough.

    The PA has the capability to win this war and pull their country back from the brink, they just lack the will.
     
  7. Pintu

    Pintu New Member

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    A BBC report on Pakistan offensive which kills 13 militants when Pakistani outpost came under attack from Taliban.

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/8030379.stm

    'Taleban killed' in Pakistan raid
    A Pakistan tank in Lower Dir after fighting with the Taleban
    The Pakistan army battled Taleban in North West Frontier Province

    The Pakistan army has fought off a Taleban attack on an outpost near the Afghan border, killing at least 13 militants, the military says.

    An army major said the two soldiers died in the pre-dawn attack in the lawless Mohmand tribal region, bordering Afghanistan's Kunar province.

    Mohmand in North-West Frontier Province is said to be a hub for Taleban.

    The attack comes days after the army fought with Taleban in the north-west's Buner region, killing about 60.

    "The Taleban attack [in Mohmand] was launched before dawn, troops retaliated and heavy fighting continued until early this morning," military spokesman Major Fazal Khan said, according to AFP news agency.

    See a map of the region
    The army fought the Taleban in Mohmand in March, killing 26 militants.

    The Taleban had carried out a series of attacks on trucks laden with supplies for Nato personnel in Afghanistan near Peshawar, the capital of North-West Frontier Province.

    On Friday, following the days of battle in neighbouring Buner and Lower Dir, talks were held to shore up a peace deal in the NWFP.

    Both sides - the cleric who negotiated the deal and NWFP officials - said they backed the peace deal but no agreement was concluded on a truce.

    The Pakistani government and some Western nations are concerned that the Taleban are trying to extend their influence beyond the Swat Valley, an area which they largely control already.

    The Taleban and the NWFP government this year agreed a deal that would bring Sharia law to large parts of the region in return for an end to the insurgency.

    However, the Taleban have not laid down their arms.

    Pakistan map showing Dagar
     
  8. Daredevil

    Daredevil On Vacation! Administrator

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    I'm yet to see their capability fighting the talibans in the mountains.
     
  9. nitesh

    nitesh Mob Control Manager Stars and Ambassadors

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  10. ZOOM

    ZOOM Founding Member

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    I highly doubt about the success of PA in flushing out pakistani Taliban from their den, since when US couldn't flush them out despite having massive airstrike capability, how the hell can we trust Pakistan about their succesfuly mission on NWFP. It will only going to jeopardise the ground realities and will lead quicker talibanisation of Pakistan.
     
  11. Daredevil

    Daredevil On Vacation! Administrator

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    Pakistan Says It Killed 50 Taliban in a Clash, but Residents Say Civilians Died

    This was exactly what I was saying in my previous posts.
    ----------------------------

    Pakistan Says It Killed 50 Taliban in a Clash, but Residents Say Civilians Died

    By CARLOTTA GALL

    PULO DAND, Pakistan — The Pakistani military said it had killed more than 50 Taliban fighters in tough fighting in Buner on Friday, but families pouring out of the district said civilians were being killed, too.

    “People were asked not to leave their houses,” said Abdul Bakht, 40, a farmer from Ambela, who had fled here to the south. “But the problem is they have not fired on a single Talib yet. All they are doing is hitting the houses.”

    He and other civilians caught in the operation, just in its fourth day, were already complaining of heavy-handed tactics by the Pakistani military, which has little training in counterinsurgency.

    A military spokesman claimed steady progress in the operation but also said the militants were putting up fierce resistance.

    The civilian complaints and the Taliban resistance pointed to the difficult task ahead for the military in driving the militants from Buner, a district just 60 miles from the capital, where hundreds of Taliban fighters advanced last week, setting off alarm here and abroad.

    Trying to revive a peace accord with the Taliban from February, government officials restarted talks with Maulana Sufi Muhammad, the religious cleric who helped mediate the deal.

    The provincial government said it was committed to appointing Islamic judges as part of the deal covering the Swat Valley and Buner. Maulana Muhammad, despite his protest at the military operation, promised the militants would lay down their weapons once Islamic law was in force.

    But in what is clearly a two-pronged approach by the Pakistani authorities, military operations also intensified.

    The military spokesman, Maj. Gen. Athar Abbas, said forces had succeeded in opening up access from the west to Buner’s central town of Daggar and were close to linking up from the south after heavy fighting at the Ambela Pass.

    At least 55 militants had been killed in fighting in the previous 24 hours, bringing the total killed so far to more than 100, he said. Two members of the paramilitary Frontier Corps were killed and eight wounded in a house rigged with explosives, he said.

    Militants were using antiaircraft weapons mounted on cars and recoilless rifles, and army helicopters had focused attacks on militants in cars and motorcycles on the roads.

    Yet accounts from people fleeing the region said that civilians were being caught up in the fighting in Ambela and on the roads. Taliban militants had strong positions in the hills and could still resist the military advance, they said.

    Villagers traveled on foot and along country roads to reach this village in the neighboring district of Swabi on Friday, their belongings piled on small vans with women and children, and even cows, packed together inside.

    Officials from Al Khidmat Foundation, a religious humanitarian organization assisting the families, said more than a thousand vehicles had ferried families out in just one day.

    In one house that was hit, two children died, a woman lost both legs, and a man was so seriously wounded that the family had already dug his grave and were waiting for him to die, Mr. Bakht, the farmer, said.

    Three men, who tried to drive toward the military to ask them to stop firing on the houses, were also killed when a helicopter fired rockets on their car, Mr. Bakht said. A fourth man was wounded.

    Two of those killed were government school examiners from the nearby Swat Valley who were in Buner to conduct school examinations when the operation started. One of the dead men was a friend of Mr. Bakht’s.

    “Instead of stopping the bombardment, they fired on the car,” he said. “There is still a curfew and their bodies are still there on the road.”

    A laborer, Hakim Noor, said, “We thought if they can bring peace we are happy with the army but now it seems they are hitting houses.” He who left his village Kowgah two days ago.

    His uncle Jamal Noor, who escaped the village on Friday, said there was shooting in the upper part of the village and helicopters were firing rockets at the houses. Helicopters were also landing in the hills behind where the Taliban had positions.

    “Now they will increasingly hit the villages as now they think they are empty and the Taliban will come down into them,” Mr. Noor said.


    http://www.nytimes.com/2009/05/02/world/asia/02pstan.html
     
  12. Rage

    Rage DFI TEAM Stars and Ambassadors

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    Four policemen lifted, Kalam police station vacated

    Updated at: 0400 PST, Friday, May 01, 2009

    [​IMG]


    SWAT: More four police personnel have been abducted in Swat while due to likely advancement of Taliban in Kalam, the police station has been vacated on Thursday, police sources said.

    According to sources, unknown armed militants kidnapped two policemen each in tehsil Charbagh, and Mingora from their houses meanwhile in a airy and tourist area of Swat Kalam, a police station has been vacated due to possible advancement of Taliban in the area.

    It is also pertinent to mention that unknown offenders made off with the official material from office of a Population Welfare Department sources added.

    Earlier, security forces carried out flag march in Mingora city and also searched out vehicles in separate areas.

    Local businessmen have also resolved migration due to heightening tensions in the area, sources revealed.


    Four policemen lifted, Kalam police station vacated
     
  13. Pintu

    Pintu New Member

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    It is simply shameful, that in an independent nation the police were being kidnapped by the militants and no action is taken by the Government and The Chief Of Army Staff blatantly claims that they will fight and eliminate terrorism from the country. Same time when fighting (I really doubt) is going on then the Pakistan Govt. is coming up with Darul Qaza in NWFP. Why this farce is going on and don't know why westerners are not looking.

    Regards
     
  14. Pintu

    Pintu New Member

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  15. Pintu

    Pintu New Member

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    REUTERS UK reports that Taliban behead two Pakistan Government Officials in SWAT in revenge for killing of its two commanders by the Pakistani security forces.

    http://uk.reuters.com/article/worldNews/idUKTRE5421AQ20090503?sp=true

    Taliban behead two Pakistani officials in Swat

    Sun May 3, 2009 2:27pm BST

    By Junaid Khan

    MINGORA, Pakistan (Reuters) - Pakistani Taliban have beheaded two government officials in the northwestern Swat Valley in revenge for the killing of two insurgent commanders by security forces, a militant spokesman said on Sunday.

    Authorities struck a peace deal in February aimed at ending militant violence in the former tourist valley of Swat but the militants have refused to disarm and pushed out of the valley into neighbouring districts.

    The Pakistani Taliban aggression raised alarm in the United States and in Islamabad, and a week ago the security forces launched an offensive to expel militants from two of Swat's neighbouring districts.

    The two government officials were kidnapped and beheaded on Saturday evening in Khuwaza Kheil, a village 18 km (10 miles) north of the valley's main town of Mingora, said town police chief Danishwar Khan.

    Their bodies were dumped beside a road.

    "They beheaded the officers. We've sent an ambulance to pick up the bodies," Khan said.

    Militant spokesman Muslim Khan said the beheadings were revenge for the killing of two low-level Taliban commanders earlier on Saturday.

    The U.S. State Department said last week the number of people killed in terrorist attacks in nuclear-armed Pakistan last year rose by more than 70 percent over the 2007 figure.

    The violence has raised fears for the prospects of the vital U.S. ally in its efforts to stabilise neighbouring Afghanistan.

    President Asif Ali Zardari will meet U.S. President Barack Obama and Afghan counterpart Hamid Karzai in Washington on May 6-7 to discuss how to destroy al Qaeda and Taliban sanctuaries on the Pakistani-Afghan border.

    Obama said last week the situation in Pakistan warranted "grave concern".

    A U.S. official said on Thursday the United States and Pakistan would likely discuss stepping up U.S. training for Pakistani security forces during Zardari's visit.

    The army launched an offensive to clear militants from the Dir and Buner districts after U.S. Secretary of State Hillary Clinton accused the government of abdicating to the Taliban.

    More than 170 militants have been killed since the offensive was launched on April 26, according to the military. There has been no independent confirmation of the military's casualty reports.

    (Writing by Kamran Haider; Editing by Robert Birsel and Jerry Norton)
     
  16. Rage

    Rage DFI TEAM Stars and Ambassadors

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    Night curfew in Swat; Taliban patrol Mingora

    Updated at: 2200 PST, Sunday, May 03, 2009

    [​IMG]


    SWAT: Bodies of two security personnel have been found in Tehsil Khwazakhela while unknown men have set on fire three trucks in Babu Klay.

    Night curfew has been imposed in Swat from 9 pm Sunday to 6 am Monday, sources said.

    Beheaded bodies of two security men have been found in Alam Ganj area of Tehsil Khwazakhela, sources added.

    Shops remained closed in Mingora markets as Taliban patrolled the area.

    Sources further said that security forces had arrested 5 suspects.

    Meanwhile, unknown men blew up a government boys school with the help of explosives while armed assailants broke into Mingora Grid Station.

    Heavy exchange of fire also took place between security forces and militants during which a power transformer was damaged resulting in suspension of electricity in many areas.


    Night curfew in Swat; Taliban patrol Mingora
     
  17. Rage

    Rage DFI TEAM Stars and Ambassadors

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    A differing perspective:


    Is Pakistan’s war against Taliban real?


    * Economist report says doing no more than the minimum under US pressure is not new
    * Army accused of not abandoning support for former militant allies


    Daily Times Monitor
    Saturday, May 02, 2009


    LAHORE: On April 26, Pakistan Army launched an attack on the Taliban in Lower Dir killing 70 militants and losing 10 soldiers. It also displaced nearly 30,000 people. On April 28 in Buner, as helicopter gunships and jets strafed their positions, the Taliban captured nearly 70 policemen and soldiers. The army dropped airborne troops behind Taliban lines and freed 18 of them. Fifty militants were killed in the first two days of fighting. The army said it would take a week to drive the Taliban out of Buner.

    Why the sudden violence? The Taliban’s advance into Buner was a violation of the peace deal America had opposed. But at first neither the government nor the army reacted. On April 22, US Secretary of State Hillary Clinton said Pakistan was becoming a “mortal threat” to the world. Its government and people, she said, needed to “speak out forcefully against a policy that is ceding more and more territory to the insurgents”. On April 25, she expressed concern for the safety of Pakistan’s nuclear arsenal.

    Some Western diplomats considered this scare-mongering. Of course, there was no chance of the Taliban seizing Islamabad. Taliban are not popular in Pakistan. Also, Mullah Fazlullah is not known to be linked to Al Qaeda.

    Yet Clinton had a point. Even President Asif Ali Zardari concedes that the Taliban hold “huge amounts of land”. And the army has been fighting militants only to make deals giving militants the run of their areas in return for a promise of good behaviour.

    In Waziristan, Taliban commanders are believed to play host to Al Qaeda’s core leadership. They also send their men across the border to fight Western and Afghan forces.

    America has been delighted by the army’s assault in Buner. A Pentagon spokesman called it “exactly the appropriate response”. Some American officials believe the army will even resume its offensive in Swat; and this time crush Fazalullah. But will Malakand prove a turning point for Pakistan. Probably not, answers The Economist.

    Western governments see a direct connection between militancy along the ‘Af-Pak’ borderlands and bombings in Western cities. Yet Pakistan is an even bigger victim. Around half a million people are estimated to have been displaced by fighting. The country has suffered more than 120 suicide-bombings in the past two years and Benazir Bhutto, a two-time former prime minister was one high-profile victim. Foreigners are also at risk.

    The new US policy is intended to arrest this slide. It will come with a lot more money but Pakistan will be expected to provide better accounting for how it spends this money.

    By one Western estimate, the army has lost over 1,500 soldiers and 70 percent of its battles against the Taliban. But the Malakand peace deal, shortly after US envoy Richard Holbrooke’s first visit to Pakistan alarmed the Americans. Swat is not like the Tribal Areas. It is thickly populated and from here militant could expand into Punjab.

    When it was eventually signed by Zardari, an American spokesman said, the peace deal violated human rights. But most Pakistanis seemed to welcome the deal that promised to end the fighting that has gone on since mid-2007. Around 800 people had been killed in a heavy-handed army action and at least 100,000 displaced.

    Maj Gen Athar Abbas, the chief army spokesman, defended the Swat ceasefire deal saying it had isolated Mullah Fazlullah by bolstering Sufi Muhammad, the chief of the Tehreek-e-Nifaz-e-Shariat-e-Muhammadi. But the ceasefire enabled the Taliban to tighten their grip on Swat. In early April, they occupied Bahrain and on April 28 shot and injured a policeman there and kidnapped another.

    On April 24, the Taliban leader in Buner claimed to have been sent there by Mullah Fazlullah to see that sharia law was being followed. His men chased away the district police and killed eight locals for putting up resistance.

    But the government has neither abrogated the Swat deal nor made any effort to use the ceasefire to extend its writ in the valley. And the army does not appear to want to resume the fighting in Swat.

    Only for the US: Doing no more than the minimum under American pressure is not new. One of the tricks used by the former president, Pervez Musharraf, was to arrest a few former jihadis only to later release them.

    In early 2007, the authorities backed a Taliban commander, Muhammad Nazir, to expel some Uzbek militants. But Nazir did not evict his Arab ‘guests’ and in February declared an alliance with Baitullah Mehsud, another Taliban leader.

    More recently, Abdul Aziz, the chief cleric of Islamabad’s Red Mosque, was released from jail on April 16. Within hours of his release, he was in the pulpit, claiming credit for the introduction of sharia in Swat.

    Old friends: Pakistan’s failure to suppress the latest Lashkar-e-Tayyaba incarnation too suggests to the West that the army has not abandoned its old proxy and still considers India to be its main enemy.

    Increasingly, senior American officials have decreed Pakistan’s ‘obsession’ with India. Commander of US Central Command Gen David Petraeus argues that Pakistan faces greater danger from home-grown extremism.

    Maj Gen Abbas suggests he does not think much of this.

    It seems that – convinced that Islamist militancy poses a much lesser threat to Pakistan than America reckons – the army will always be an awkward ally for the West. Equally, America is a difficult friend for Pakistan. Its pressing objective is to stanch the flow of Taliban into Afghanistan and to crush Al Qaeda’s leadership. These are not the priorities for many Pakistanis. Also, Pakistan reasonably argues that the cross-border insurgency has been inflamed by America’s own blunders in Afghanistan and its missile strikes into Pakistan.

    The army says it takes a longer-term view of what is required. In Swat, for example, it seems there is no need to kill many civilians to pulverise the Taliban. This is not entirely unreasonable.

    Many in Swat also seem to believe that, once sharia is instituted, the militants will fade away.


    Daily Times - Leading News Resource of Pakistan
     
  18. nitesh

    nitesh Mob Control Manager Stars and Ambassadors

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    Pakistan's army: as inept as it is corrupt | Mustafa Qadri | Comment is free | guardian.co.uk

    {This is blatant lie IA entered only when they reached in vicinity of Srinagar}

     
  19. nitesh

    nitesh Mob Control Manager Stars and Ambassadors

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    seems like the offensive has been blunted:

    Daily Times - Leading News Resource of Pakistan

     
  20. LETHALFORCE

    LETHALFORCE Moderator Moderator

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    was this a really offensive or another scam job to make sure they get their aid?
     

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