Pakistani F-16s Shoot Down RAF Eurofighter Typhoons In Turkey

Discussion in 'Pakistan' started by JAYRAM, Jun 16, 2011.


    JAYRAM 2 STRIKE CORPS Senior Member

    Mar 8, 2011
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    North Frontier, The Mighty Himalaya's
    Jun 12, 2011

    Pakistani pilots flying modernised versions of the 1970s-vintage F-16 Falcon fighter have beaten the RAF's brand-new Eurofighter Typhoon superfighters during air combat exercises in Turkey, according to a Pakistani officer.


    The RAF Typhoon, formerly known as the Eurofighter, should nonetheless have been vastly superior in air-to-air combat whether BVR or close in within visual range (WVR). The cripplingly expensive, long-delayed Eurofighter was specifically designed to address the defects of its predecessor the Tornado F3 – famously almost useless in close-in, dogfighting-style air combat. The Typhoon was meant to see off such deadly in-close threats as Soviet "Fulcrums" and "Flankers" using short-range missiles fired using helmet-mounted sight systems: such planes were thought well able to beat not just Tornados but F-16s in close fighting, and this expectation was borne out after the Cold War when the Luftwaffe inherited some from the East German air force and tried them out in exercises.

    Thus it is that huge emphasis was placed on manoeuvring capability and dogfighting in the design of the Eurofighter. The expensive Euro-jet was initially designed, in fact, as a pure fighter with no ground attack options at all – bomber capability has had to be retrofitted subsequently at still more expense. Despite lacking various modern technologies such as Stealth and thrust-vectoring the resulting Typhoon is generally touted as being one of the best air-to-air combat planes in the world right now. Certainly it is meant to be good in close fighting: it is armed with the Advanced Short Range Air to Air Missile (ASRAAM) which as its name suggests is intended for the close WVR fight.

    Perhaps the account above is simply a lie, or anyway a bit of a fighter pilot tall story. But the pilot quoted will be easily identifiable inside his community if not to the outside world, and he could expect a lot of flak for telling a lie on such a matter in public. It seems likelier that the story is the truth as he perceived it: that the RAF's new superfighter was thrashed in the very type of combat it is supposed to be best at by a 1970s-era plane, albeit much modernised.

    It's always possible, as the anonymous Pakistani pilot suggests, that the problem was with the crews. It may be that RAF pilots simply don't know how to fight close-in. During the many years when they had no other fighter than the lamentable Tornado F3 (the Typhoon only reached front line service a few years ago) they may have lost the institutional skillset required for dogfighting with short-range missiles.

    But in general when the British forces perform badly it isn't because of a lack of skills and training. It's far more normal for them to be let down by their kit. Based on this account, the Typhoon is actually worse than an F-16, and as a result an export Flanker or Fulcrum equipped with Archer missiles would beat it easily in WVR combat.

    It would appear that the Eurofighter's last remaining selling point compared to modern US-made stealth fighters which cost the same or less (or for that matter vastly cheaper ordinary non-stealth fighters like the F-16, F-18 Hornet etc) now has something of a question mark over it.

    Pakistani F-16s Shoot Down RAF Eurofighter Typhoons During Air Combat Exercises In Turkey ~ ASIAN DEFENCE NEWS
    Pintu and Kunal Biswas like this.
  3. Solid Beast

    Solid Beast New Member

    Jan 12, 2010
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    Last edited: Jun 29, 2011
  4. ace009

    ace009 Freakin' Fighter fan Elite Member

    Sep 15, 2010
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    New England, USA
    The source is a Pakistani Blogger - so why am I not surprised about the content? I am pretty sure if this report was true, I would have read it in other places at the several defense forums I subscribe to.
    maomao likes this.
  5. SpArK

    SpArK SORCERER Senior Member

    Oct 24, 2010
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    The true story behind PAF’s claim of Typhoon kill

    by Pratik Sawerdekar on June 18, 2011 | |

    A recent article making rounds worldwide containing claims that PAF pilots scored Typhoon kills in their F-16′s resulting into total embarrassment of RAF and the much hyped Typhoon fighter aircraft seems to be a tall claim to believe. The reason why I think that these claims are hard to believe is because of one basic fact that both the PAF F-16′s and the RAF Typhoon have never come face to face in a DACT (Dissimilar Air combat training). The last time PAF and RAF were in a exercise together was at Ex Anatolian Eagle 2007/2 where the Pakistani’s were present with their F-16′s but the RAF sent only the GR4 Tornadoes. Thus the basic claim of Pakistani’s fails to be true.

    The only other place where PAF pilots were able to score a kill over the Typhoon was during Ex Anatolian Eagle 2009/2 were PAF pilots were flying in Turkish F-16′s on an exchange program. According to some people with knowledge of this incident, the Typhoon pilots were flying in as the “Red Team” where as the PAF pilots were with the “Blue Team”. The Pakistani scored the kill from a distant rather than in a Dogfight. Thus the second claim of a dogfight kill also seems untrue. Also in DACT the “Red Team” is meant to loose and the “Blue Team” has advantages like those of a AWACS.

    Another important fact which one must note than under an exchange program only young pilots with lower ranks are transferred rather than “senior officer”. That being said the PAF pilots are known to be good in within-visual-range (WVR) combat and such a revelation should not be taken as a surprise and a means to downgrade RAF or the Typhoon. In a real WVR combat the RAF Typhoon would win over the Pakistani F-16′s with ease because of their superior sensors and maneuverability.

    The true story behind PAF’s claim of Typhoon kill | Angle of Attack | Defence Aviation
  6. shuvo@y2k10

    [email protected] Senior Member Senior Member

    Apr 4, 2010
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    this may be sequel to pakistani "victory" in 1971 meant for domestic consumption for its people who are still hanging their head in shame after the abottabad episode.even so i think the eurofighter is nothing more than a costly piece of junk which not even comes close to su-30mki.if this news is true this should definately affect the mmrca decision and iaf should go for rafael.

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