Pakistan to Purchase 2 Naval Warships From China.

[WolfPack86]

RAWALPINDI: Pakistan on Friday signed a contract to purchase two naval warships from China to further enhance its battle capabilities.

The contract to purchase two warships for Pakistan Navy was signed between Pakistan and China Shipbuilding Trading Company (CSTC) at the Defence Ministry production. During the contract signing, Naval Staff deputy chief Admiral Faisal Rasul Lodhi was also present on occasion.

With conclusion of this contract, Pakistan Navy will now have a total of 4 x Type 054 A ships in its Fleet by 2021.
According to a press release, the induction of the two ships will improve Pakistan navy’s battle capabilities and will also play a significant role in maritime security operations in the region.

Among others, the ceremony was attended by high ranking officials and dignitaries from China, Pakistan Navy and Government authorities.
http://www.indiandefensenews.in/2018/06/pak-scan-pakistan-to-purchase-2-naval.html

 

[Armand2REP]

Is this going to come with HQ-16 SAM?

 

[Illusive]

Wow...How much does these costs? So along with these they are getting 8 subs from China. That's quite an upgrade in a short span of time for pakis. China really trying it's best to prop up pakis in West coast.

 

[undeadmyrmidon]

Wow...How much does these costs? So along with these they are getting 8 subs from China. That's quite an upgrade in a short span of time for pakis. China really trying it's best to prop up pakis in West coast.

Type 054A = Talwar/Grigorovich Class Frigate used by India/Russia

Only changes to Pakistani version is that some sensors may be foreign and 76mm gun to be replaced by 100mm and 24 missile FL 3000N to be added. They will carry 8 more HQ 16/Shtil 1 SAM (50 Km) than Talwar class (24) and be able to carry ASROC (20 - 30 Km) in same range.

The frigates are to replace remaining Type 21 (4 ships active as Tariq Class) of Pakistan Navy on a one for one basis. Future Pakistan Navy will have 4 Type 054A, 4 MILGELM Class Corvette (with FL 3000N replacing American 21 missile RAM, 8 Type 039 AIP Submarine and 3 refurbuished AIP Agosta 90B with assorted missile boat like Azmat class).

 

[Illusive]

Type 054A = Talwar/Grigorovich Class Frigate used by India/Russia

Only changes to Pakistani version is that some sensors may be foreign and 76mm gun to be replaced by 100mm and 24 missile FL 3000N to be added. They will carry 8 more HQ 16/Shtil 1 SAM (50 Km) than Talwar class (24) and be able to carry ASROC (20 - 30 Km) in same range.

The frigates are to replace remaining Type 21 (4 ships active as Tariq Class) of Pakistan Navy on a one for one basis. Future Pakistan Navy will have 4 Type 054A, 4 MILGELM Class Corvette (with FL 3000N replacing American 21 missile RAM, 8 Type 039 AIP Submarine and 3 refurbuished AIP Agosta 90B with assorted missile boat like Azmat class).

So they are getting milgem corvettes too. Damn, this is some serious boost to their navy. Naval blockades won't be an easy task.

 

[aghamarshana]

So they are getting milgem corvettes too. Damn, this is some serious boost to their navy. Naval blockades won't be an easy task.

We set ablaze Karachi harbour using Osa class Missile boats which I think the world doesn't even know at the time of our offensive ops.I think we need to hold on to that spirit and invest more on indigenious diesel electric subs,minesweepers.New inductions by Pakis as to replace older boats,but we need to reach our ballpark 200 asap to keep the status quo intact atleast in Indian Ocean,not that Pakis r gonna challenge our domination anytime but retards do mischief often.

 

[nongaddarliberal]

Wow...How much does these costs? So along with these they are getting 8 subs from China. That's quite an upgrade in a short span of time for pakis. China really trying it's best to prop up pakis in West coast.

All this can't cost that much considering their budget, which should tell you about the quality of what they're getting. But India now needs to concentrate on increasing numbers substantially. They will have 11 subs in the future. We will need at least 30 attack subs to both take care of pakistan and china in the Indian ocean. This 6+6 business of ours is not enough.

 

[captscooby81]

As per Wiki it does have HQ-16 ...

Advantage of being a beggar state is they can sell their sovereignty and get all these for free ..Do you think Paki has any money to pay for this when they are borrowing Bn $ from china to cover their debt ..These are all ships for the chinese 27th state which is going to be west of india ..

Is this going to come with HQ-16 SAM?

 

[binayak95]

Wow. They are getting desperate about the serious disadvantage that they have vis a vis the Indian Navy. The ships dont worry me one bit. Those 8 new AIP subs could prove to be a headache, especially in the Indian Ocean.

But, no need to panic. Their biggest flaw remains they have only 1 base to sortie out of for now.. Block that in war time with mines and you've got yourself fish in a narrow barrel.

 

[Longewala]

Wow. They are getting desperate about the serious disadvantage that they have vis a vis the Indian Navy. The ships dont worry me one bit. Those 8 new AIP subs could prove to be a headache, especially in the Indian Ocean.

But, no need to panic. Their biggest flaw remains they have only 1 base to sortie out of for now.. Block that in war time with mines and you've got yourself fish in a narrow barrel.

And the fact that india would have absolute air superiority in any one front War.

Seriously they were a threat when they were 1/4th the size of the Indian economy upto 1971 and receiving massive aid beyond what India could match.

Now their only hope is a two front war, which is what our planning should focus on. 1 on 1 we crush them like a bug.

 

[nongaddarliberal]

Wow. They are getting desperate about the serious disadvantage that they have vis a vis the Indian Navy. The ships dont worry me one bit. Those 8 new AIP subs could prove to be a headache, especially in the Indian Ocean.

But, no need to panic. Their biggest flaw remains they have only 1 base to sortie out of for now.. Block that in war time with mines and you've got yourself fish in a narrow barrel.

Don't know why anyone is concerned with this purchase. Yes, pakistan will have 4 slightly decent frigates with chinese missiles that have no guarantee on performance, in addition to 5 other outdated frigates which will be fish in a barrel for us. We have 11 destroyers, 14 frigates, with 4 more destroyers and 11 more frigates coming in. We hilariously outgun them and the gap is only growing. But the submarine fleet is where we have more work to do. Regardless of the (lack of) quality of the chinese subs, there will still be 8 of them, and 3 of the Agosta subs. Meanwhile we are building only 6 scorpene and 6 p75i. Indigenous SSN's wont enter service before 2030. Many kilo class subs will be retired. Same with
Shishumar class.

 

[Illusive]

R

Don't know why anyone is concerned with this purchase. Yes, pakistan will have 4 slightly decent frigates with chinese missiles that have no guarantee on performance, in addition to 5 other outdated frigates which will be fish in a barrel for us. We have 11 destroyers, 14 frigates, with 4 more destroyers and 11 more frigates coming in. We hilariously outgun them and the gap is only growing. But the submarine fleet is where we have more work to do. Regardless of the (lack of) quality of the chinese subs, there will still be 8 of them, and 3 of the Agosta subs. Meanwhile we are building only 6 scorpene and 6 p75i. Indigenous SSN's wont enter service before 2030. Many kilo class subs will be retired. Same with
Shishumar class.

Regarding their subs we do have p8i along with kamorta. We should be really produce underwater autonomous subs to deal with pakis in large no.

 

[WolfPack86]

Each vessel cost roughly 240 million dollars. I found it in military today.com

 

[undeadmyrmidon]

So they are getting milgem corvettes too. Damn, this is some serious boost to their navy. Naval blockades won't be an easy task.

Relax. Most of it is being bankrolled by China to have a navy to flank and put pressure on us in the venet of a naval war between India and China. MILGEM is just an average corvette which Pakis hype up. It has a 21 cell RAM launcher which will be replaced with a FL 3000N 24 cell Chinese SAM and Harpoon missiles will be replaced by Harba AShM (600 km) subsonic missile. Absolutely useless against even Barak 1.

 

[Illusive]

Relax. Most of it is being bankrolled by China to have a navy to flank and put pressure on us in the venet of a naval war between India and China. MILGEM is just an average corvette which Pakis hype up. It has a 21 cell RAM launcher which will be replaced with a FL 3000N 24 cell Chinese SAM and Harpoon missiles will be replaced by Harba AShM (600 km) subsonic missile. Absolutely useless against even Barak 1.

It's a potential threat and they are building it up. The thing is we are actually relaxing instead of doing something about it. We could easily sell similar frigates with barak8 to vietnam to prop them up in scs. Chinese are trying to annoy India and my problem is India does little to do the same.

 

[undeadmyrmidon]

It's a potential threat and they are building it up. The thing is we are actually relaxing instead of doing something about it. We could easily sell similar frigates with barak8 to vietnam to prop them up in scs. Chinese are trying to annoy India and my problem is India does little to do the same.

That's why we are tying up with USN and that's why they renamed their PACOM to Indo Pacific Command. That's why the Quad (USN,JSDFN,IN,RAN (pussies :biggrin2: )) is making China shit bricks. Vietnam has already got P 800s from Russia and are building up their Navy steadily.

The new frigates are about the same as our Talwar class and they have inferior ASW,ASUW capability with marginally better AAW capability (8 more HQ 16/Shtil 1 and 24 cell 6 - 9 km FL 3000N). India is building the P 17A which is the hotter, prettier and younger sister of P 15A/B. We are ironically also buying 4 more Talwar class except with VLS launched Shtil 1 to keep Russians happy and bolster our numbers. Goa Shipyard Limited is also going to build 2 of these frigates by 2021. Pakis hit their pants and sold themselves wholesale as a subsidiary to Chinks.

 

[undeadmyrmidon]

All this can't cost that much considering their budget, which should tell you about the quality of what they're getting. But India now needs to concentrate on increasing numbers substantially. They will have 11 subs in the future. We will need at least 30 attack subs to both take care of pakistan and china in the Indian ocean. This 6+6 business of ours is not enough.

Minimum Submarines (2028)

6 Scorpene + 3 - 6 AIP Sorpene + Upgrade Kilo (5 - 6) + Upgrade Shishukumar (2 - 3)
= 16 - 21 Diesel Electric Submarines with 9 - 12 AIP

1 Akula SSN + 2 - 3 Indian SSN = 4 SSN

4 Arihant + 2 S5 class = 5 - 6 SSBN

Total = 25 - 31 Submarines

Above figures are extremely conservative.

 

[nongaddarliberal]

Minimum Submarines (2028)

6 Scorpene + 3 - 6 AIP Sorpene + Upgrade Kilo (5 - 6) + Upgrade Shishukumar (2 - 3)
= 16 - 21 Diesel Electric Submarines with 9 - 12 AIP

1 Akula SSN + 2 - 3 Indian SSN = 4 SSN

4 Arihant + 2 S5 class = 5 - 6 SSBN

Total = 25 - 31 Submarines

Above figures are extremely conservative.

How about a non conservative figure? And 2-3 indigenous SSN's operational by 2028 seems to be optimistic.

 

[undeadmyrmidon]

How about a non conservative figure?

:biggrin2::biggrin2::biggrin2:

12 Scorpene/Scorpene Derivative = 12 + (6 + 3) = 21 Diesel Electric with 12 AIP.

1 Akula + 3 - 4 Indian SSN = 5 SSN

4 Arihant + 3 S5 + 1 S6 (Boomer Class) = 8 SSBN

34 Submarines (Given Modi wins in 2019 and Private sector active engagement)

Indigenous Diesel Electric (2 - 3) possibly under Make in India by Private Company - Foreign - Naval Design Bureau tie up.

We will also have 16 ASW torpedo chaser like craft for the Paki AIP subs along with 4 - 8 Kamorta and between 12 - 18 P 8I.

 

[captscooby81]

We are not going to have more than 6 SSBN that will be the max S2,S3,S4,S4+ and two S5 no way we are going to have 8 SSBN we may have 8 SSN by 2035 provided everything goes smooth like now and any trouble to economy and the return of kichdi govt forget all these we will have to stick with 4 SSBN and 2 SSN only ..So BJP winning or even Congress winning as single party with few coalition parties will be better rather having a rainbow coalition for our defence modernisation plans ..
Somewhere i feel we put ourselves into sticky situation with this Makeinindia drama too much we could have skipped few crucial projects out of it and started giving orders ..Like Japan has very large capacity shipbuilding industry we could have gone for Soryu class subs with production in Japanese shipyards which could have saved us time and deliver at crucial juncture ..Rather putting stress on our limited shipyards with mediocre resources ..