Pakistan Mob Justice

BridgeSeller

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An honest question @Srinivas_K , when you read these books and now supposedly have a good understanding of them, did they mention the following verses (as quoted by @BridgeSeller ):-

Those who make war with God and his messenger will be killed or crucified, or have their hands and feet on alternate sides cut off, or will be expelled out of the land. That is how they will be treated in this world, and in the next they will have an awful doom.
Original: إِنَّمَاجَزَاء الَّذِينَ يُحَارِبُونَ اللّهَ وَرَسُولَهُ وَيَسْعَوْنَ فِي الأَرْضِفَسَاداً أَن يُقَتَّلُواْ أَوْ يُصَلَّبُواْ أَوْ تُقَطَّعَ أَيْدِيهِمْوَأَرْجُلُهُم مِّنْ خِلافٍ أَوْ يُنفَوْاْ مِنَ الأَرْضِ ذَلِكَلَهُمْ خِزْيٌ فِي الدُّنْيَا وَلَهُمْ فِي الآخِرَةِ عَذَابٌ عَظِيمٌ
The Qur'an (القرآن), Sura 5:33
Disbelievers will have a painful doom.
Original: إِنَّ الَّذِينَ كَفَرُواْ لَوْ أَنَّلَهُم مَّا فِي الأَرْضِ جَمِيعاً وَمِثْلَهُ مَعَهُ لِيَفْتَدُواْ بِهِ مِنْعَذَابِ يَوْمِ الْقِيَامَةِ مَا تُقُبِّلَ مِنْهُمْ وَلَهُمْ عَذَابٌ أَلِيمٌ
The Qur'an (القرآن), Sura 5:36
Disbelievers will want to come out of the Fire, but will not. Their will be a lasting doom.
Original: يُرِيدُونَ أَن يَخْرُجُواْ مِنَ النَّارِ وَمَا هُم بِخَارِجِينَ مِنْهَاوَلَهُمْ عَذَابٌ مُّقِيمٌ
The Qur'an (القرآن), Sura 5:37
You know, I can read arabic, and I can tell you that these are lifted straight out of the Quran. The English translations are by Marmaduke Pickthall, you coudl choose the ones by Yusuf Ali if you want. I really didn't need to google it, I said that to illustrate how easy it was for anyone to find verses that are alarmingly violent in the Quran.
 
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Voldemort

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'Disbelievers will have a painful doom.' This needs accusations and trials? I see how difficult the job is for defenders of peaceful people.
 

BridgeSeller

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'Disbelievers will have a painful doom.' This needs accusations and trials? I see how difficult the job is for defenders of peaceful people.
It's made a little easier by morons like this guy who's been flinging his poo all over this thread, who believe vacuous statements like 'all religions are equal'
 

sydsnyper

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Let me point a huge fallacy in the crux of your argument.... you say this:

As said earlier these verses are from Quran indicating punishments for crimes , no where it mentions that accused is not given trial before punishment. The accusation should be proved.
Where in the following quote does God supposedly speak of any trial !!!

Those who make war with God and his messenger will be killed or crucified, or have their hands and feet on alternate sides cut off, or will be expelled out of the land. That is how they will be treated in this world, and in the next they will have an awful doom.
Speaking of mob justice, the mob was not born with the intent of killing the woman, and her grand daughters. They were incited to do so and not just a plain incitement, but an incitement justified by 'God' because he spoke the verse stated above and urges his followers to take the cue.

Your turn sir???

The point here I am talking about is not mob justice ..... these guys went on rampage and looted the stalls, burnt the buildings in which innocent children were dead.

As I said, it is a waste of time to argue dude ...... I am not supporting any of those violent inciting texts either.

Some people thought of outsmarting me and showed their idiot icy.

As said earlier these verses are from Quran indicating punishments for crimes , no where it mentions that accused is not given trial before punishment. The accusation should be proved.

The acts these guys are doing is barbaric and some actions are not even in their holy texts.
 

sydsnyper

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I agree with you, and know about these verses. I quoted your name to avoid the blame of plagiarism :p :p :p

By the way, since you know Arabic, for my curiosity, what is the whole deal with the satanic verses. Apparently nutcase Mo had some revelations from the devil which he thought were from god or vice versa... what is the whole deal with it.

You know, I can read arabic, and I can tell you that these are lifted straight out of the Quran. The English translations are by Marmaduke Pickthall, you coudl choose the ones by Yusuf Ali if you want. I really didn't need to google it, I said that to illustrate how easy it was for anyone to find verses that are alarmingly violent in the Quran.
 

rizwan78

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This is the paki way of doing things, claim victory after a resounding defeat. No wonder you get so defensive when we prove there's a problem with the religion. It must hurt to be on the losing side
There is no problem with any religion, but problems are those who understand it wrongly and want to implement it wrongly
 

sydsnyper

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Glad you said that, now please help us understand this.

A Danish oldie draws a mohammad cartoon and the whole muslim world goes batshit crazy over the matter. Fatwas are issued a dime a dozen..... where is the muslim outcry and fatwa on the killing and looting of a grandmother and her grand kids..... kids mind you that are 7 years old or less.

Will the mulla(s) who incited the riots and the mob that carried out be excommunicated at the very least ?

There is no problem with any religion, but problems are those who understand it wrongly and want to implement it wrongly
 

rock127

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There is no problem with any religion, but problems are those who understand it wrongly and want to implement it wrongly
Yeah Islam is the religion of peace and we can see how much Peace is spread by the Social Welfare orgs like Al-Qaida,LeT,JuD,TTP and the newest kid on the block the super peaceful ISIS.

Never saw any of your Maulvis coming ahead and renouncing any kind of violence but instead they put venom in the masses to incite masses using Koran words.
 

Neo

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I agree with you, and know about these verses. I quoted your name to avoid the blame of plagiarism :p :p :p

By the way, since you know Arabic, for my curiosity, what is the whole deal with the satanic verses. Apparently nutcase Mo had some revelations from the devil which he thought were from god or vice versa... what is the whole deal with it.
Refrain from insuting religious icons and keep the debate civilised.
Please edit your post.
 

Srinivas_K

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Let me point a huge fallacy in the crux of your argument.... you say this:



Where in the following quote does God supposedly speak of any trial !!!



Speaking of mob justice, the mob was not born with the intent of killing the woman, and her grand daughters. They were incited to do so and not just a plain incitement, but an incitement justified by 'God' because he spoke the verse stated above and urges his followers to take the cue.

Your turn sir???

the argument itself is wrong, earlier some idiots cited Quranic verses and said mob is following Quran.

Blasphemic laws are created by the Birtish not religions fundamentalists, even if Ahmadis has done Blasphemy they have to be proven in the court of the law and there is a system in Pakistan.

What these guys has done to Ahmadis is not in their religious texts. No where it says loot or burn the houses when innocent children are there inside.

GOD justifying the killing of non believers is different from Blasphemy. I stand my point and rest my case here for what I have stated earlier. Go to my statement which I have posted and check the argument associated with it.


It is a mistake to argue with idiots earlier (not you), and it even a big mistake to prolong this worth less conversation.
 
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sydsnyper

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The blasphemy laws in pakistan being drawn by british (even if it is true) is not the matter of debate here.

In this specific case, what do you think gave the mob the moral courage to kill an old woman and two kids. The loot was an extension of the punishment....

Why do you think that it was so wrong that it could be righted by killing the woman. The answer, as we see it, is in the Quran.

the argument itself is wrong, earlier some idiots cited Quranic verses and said mob is following Quran.

Blasphemic laws are created by the Birtish not religions fundamentalists, even if Ahmadis has done Blasphemy they have to be proven in the court of the law and there is a system in Pakistan.

What these guys has done to Ahmadis is not in their religious texts. No where it says loot or burn the houses when innocent children are there inside.

GOD justifying the killing of non believers is different from Blasphemy. I stand my point and rest my case here for what I have stated earlier. Go to my statement which I have posted and check the argument associated with it.


It is a mistake to argue with idiots earlier (not you), and it even a big mistake to prolong this worth less conversation.
 

BridgeSeller

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I agree with you, and know about these verses. I quoted your name to avoid the blame of plagiarism :p :p :p

By the way, since you know Arabic, for my curiosity, what is the whole deal with the satanic verses. Apparently nutcase Mo had some revelations from the devil which he thought were from god or vice versa... what is the whole deal with it.
Actually, to be fair, my knowledge of arabic is limited to modern spoken Arabic(I was forced to learn it by the peaceful muslims in Saudi). I can read it fluently but many of the words used in the quran are archaic and will need to be interpreted by someone who knows them. There are differences in nuances of the same words in the old and new arabic. And this is where the catch is. I have noticed many instances where the guy explaining the meaning of a verse will tailor it to suit the audience. Western audience? Tone down the genocidal aspect and play up the la-la-land version full of peace and tolerance. Local madrassah audience? do the opposite. Another thing helping them is the principle of abrogation. Wherein, when you encounter conflicting verses, the one later in the book takes precedence. Couple that with the fact that the first half of the quran is noticeably less violent than the second half(written earlier when muhmmad was just starting out and not as powerful), and you have more help in concealing the violence inherent. To the gullible kuffar (like one very prominent one in this thread ;), you read out the peaceful verse, to the momin in training, read the second half.

The whole deal with the satanic verses is that all of a sudden there are verses in the quran that mistakenly say you can worship these three or so pagan gods in a complete u-turn made by a supposedly infallible man. There is a whole industry out there to prove that these verses are not what mohammad wanted. The whole story is incredulous to say the least.
 

BridgeSeller

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The blasphemy laws in pakistan being drawn by british (even if it is true) is not the matter of debate here.

In this specific case, what do you think gave the mob the moral courage to kill an old woman and two kids. The loot was an extension of the punishment....

Why do you think that it was so wrong that it could be righted by killing the woman. The answer, as we see it, is in the Quran.
You think that guy is going to answer this question of yours? You see how he conveniently ignores any real points and keeps parroting one thing 'It is not written in their religious text' belying the fact that he has, in fact, never really read any of them.
 

sydsnyper

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ty man....

Actually, to be fair, my knowledge of arabic is limited to modern spoken Arabic(I was forced to learn it by the peaceful muslims in Saudi). I can read it fluently but many of the words used in the quran are archaic and will need to be interpreted by someone who knows them. There are differences in nuances of the same words in the old and new arabic. And this is where the catch is. I have noticed many instances where the guy explaining the meaning of a verse will tailor it to suit the audience. Western audience? Tone down the genocidal aspect and play up the la-la-land version full of peace and tolerance. Local madrassah audience? do the opposite. Another thing helping them is the principle of abrogation. Wherein, when you encounter conflicting verses, the one later in the book takes precedence. Couple that with the fact that the first half of the quran is noticeably less violent than the second half(written earlier when muhmmad was just starting out and not as powerful), and you have more help in concealing the violence inherent. To the gullible kuffar (like one very prominent one in this thread ;), you read out the peaceful verse, to the momin in training, read the second half.

The whole deal with the satanic verses is that all of a sudden there are verses in the quran that mistakenly say you can worship these three or so pagan gods in a complete u-turn made by a supposedly infallible man. There is a whole industry out there to prove that these verses are not what mohammad wanted. The whole story is incredulous to say the least.
 

pmaitra

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@Srinivas_K, @BridgeSeller,

It is not very meaningful if both of you engage in name-calling and at the same time report posts.

Please keep it cordial.
 
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Voldemort

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I see no explanation of the quoted verses has been given by the defender.
 

JBH22

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Pakistani Justice in the upcoming Red Fort Trial.

Mushriks and kuffars are to be tried by his holiness Zaid Hamid. Run Banya Run
 

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