Pakistan defers purchase of J10B Fighters

[Neo]

dont troll,

PAK is in fact still growing despite its whole mess of problems.
Pak still receives foreign investment, i guess slick marketing.
IMF and other organizations exist to Help countries like Pakistan

I'm not usually the advocate or the defender of Pakistan. But i dont want people to just make stuff up like magical scenarios where Pak will just suffer economic collapse tomorrow.

fact remains Pak less politically stable then economically. economically its their self inflicted slump, They have the means to recover if they made the right moves, Getting rid of terror camps and increasing trade with India for one . Politically its their continuing disaster they call democracy, but in reality is everything but.

Bottom line dude, dont just make generalizations and take pot shots, try to be a little bit more subjective and on topic

Great post mate, couldn't agree more with you.

 

[Neo]

Pakistan's economy is in a total MESS. The reasons are
1 . the feudal structure and Army which does not want any changes in its powers.
2. poor quality of Human resources. Because education has always been neglected.

If after 62 and half years your main exports are COTTON TEXTILES AND RICE then It shows
how much has the economy been Neglected.

By the way if J10 B is not good , then you can wait for J11/ J 12 /J 13.
But the chinese AND Saudis are in no mood for giving FREE LUNCHES.

First of all I don't think this thread is related to Pakistan's economic growth. Secondly, finances have already been agreed with Chinese during Musharraf's government for the delivery of first of 40 FC-20's in 2013. A team of Pakistani PAF engineers is in China already working on the development of FC-20 which is claimed to be more potent than the Chinese J-10A.

And for your kind info, there's no free lunch. We're paying for these birds.

 

[Neo]

I think that is a major setback for Pakistan. They no longer have confidence in the supposedly advanced J-10!

And why is that? IRC IAF recieved first "supposedly advanced"SU-30's ten years ago but upgraded them to MKI standars how much later? Just a few years right?

Even for JF-17 they had to go for Western avionics and weapons package. A vote of no confidence in Chinese stuff?

It was part of the original plan, a JV with China and a good weapon and avionics suite from the west. Its not a matter of confidence but to utilise best options we have.

 

[Vinod2070]

And why is that? IRC IAF recieved first "supposedly advanced"SU-30's ten years ago but upgraded them to MKI standars how much later? Just a few years right?

Well, this is based on the news report that started this thread.

Pakistan has deferred the purchase of state of the art fighter J-10 planes from China till test flights.

It was part of the original plan, a JV with China and a good weapon and avionics suite from the west. Its not a matter of confidence but to utilise best options we have.

I know we have discussed this earlier. I am not very sure if that was always the plan or the performance of the Chinese stuff prompted that.

 

[Armand2REP]

Did we ask them to buy it?

Yes...

Lol we wanted 40 back in 2006 or something but we didnt coz of earth quake scnerio.
And i hope u remmember till 2008 our economy was the fastest growing in asia so we were quite capable of buying it.Even now we can buy 2 squadrons if we want atleast.

Pakistan wanted more welfare F-16s, not Rafale. Pakistan is too poor to buy. It is just Pakdef fantasy that it happened. We don't give our fighters away like Americans.

Lol man and still PAF is improving it and has announced the second block to come in 2012?Despite frances negotiation they are selling us MICA and offering us there best radars?be it sagem or other french company?
Not to forget 5th gerneration marlyne tht incoparates technology from nuclear subs?Wat about Vixen AESA from U.K?

We aren't offering you anything without government approval, which you do not have. Second block? Pakistan improving the Thunder Blunder?

Vixen is by Selex of Italy and the version offered to Pakistan is the inferior 500.

Well it was there official that said the deal was 95% done.If even tht doesnt go wel probably opt for the french.

France won't be selling you submarines when you kill our engineers for not paying kickbacks and then fail to convict the murderers.

Its still used for offensive and deffensive purposes?

It doesn't have any weapons so it is defence, can also be used as an ATC device.

And wil u buy ur jets from every european country?

No, we only buy our own jets. I'm from France, not India. Look at the flag.

They dont care if ur india,pakistan or egypt the want $$$$$$$$

True, we want money and there is way more of it to be had in India than a broke Pakistan.

 

[Armand2REP]

First of all I don't think this thread is related to Pakistan's economic growth. Secondly, finances have already been agreed with Chinese during Musharraf's government for the delivery of first of 40 FC-20's in 2013. A team of Pakistani PAF engineers is in China already working on the development of FC-20 which is claimed to be more potent than the Chinese J-10A.

And for your kind info, there's no free lunch. We're paying for these birds.

Finances has everything to do with military purchases. If you don't have any money you can't buy much of anything. Your two major suppliers are China and USA because they are happy to give you welfare weapons. The US gives you direct military aid and China gives you 30-40% discount on anything you buy.

 

[Neo]

Well, this is based on the news report that started this thread.

Pakistan has deferred the purchase of state of the art fighter J-10 planes from China till test flights.

I know we have discussed this earlier. I am not very sure if that was always the plan or the performance of the Chinese stuff prompted that.

Read the interview with former ACM Tanveer and you will find your answers. We were never interested in J-10A, it was rejected by PAF. China agreed to meet our ASR once again after the success of JF-17 and the concept of FC-20 was born based on the PLAAF upgraded version J-10B which itself is under development. We expect FC-20 no earlier than 2013.

 

[DaRk WaVe]

Read the interview with former ACM Tanveer and you will find your answers. We were never interested in J-10A, it was rejected by PAF. China agreed to meet our ASR once again after the success of JF-17 and the concept of FC-20 was born based on the PLAAF upgraded version J-10B which itself is under development. We expect FC-20 no earlier than 2013.

i think we can get some cash with JF-17 Export

MIDDLE EAST/AFRICA
Date Posted: 04-Mar-2010

Jane's Defence Weekly


Egypt mulls JF-17 co-production and signs for more F-16s

Mohammed Najib JDW Correspondent - Ramallah

Cairo is in talks with Pakistan to begin joint production of JF-17 Thunder combat aircraft, Jane's understands from Egyptian defence industry sources.

Even as the talks continued regarding JF-17 assembly in Egypt, however, the US Department of Defense announced on 2 March that an initial contract worth some USD213 million had been finalised with Lockheed Martin for Egypt's procurement of additional F-16C/D multirole fighters.

If the deal for the single-engine JF-17 is approved, Egypt would become the first export client for the aircraft. The Pakistan Air Force formally inducted the type into service in February. Chengdu Aircraft Industries Group, a subsidiary of the state-owned China Aviation Industry Corporation (AVIC), began development of the aircraft in 1991, with Pakistan joining the programme in 1995. The first aircraft to be manufactured at the Pakistani Aeronautical Complex (PAC) was rolled out on 24 November 2009.

While the number of aircraft Egypt plans to acquire has not been revealed, the inclusion of local assembly in the deal suggests that the contract would be for at least 48 JF-17s.

Brigadier General Mohammed Abdul Azim, a senior official at the government-owned Arab Organisation for Industrialisation (AOI), told Jane's on 3 March that negotiations were continuing and that a final contract announcement was not expected for several weeks.

The project has, however, been plagued by financial and technological obstacles, due in large part to Egypt's insistence that production take place in the country, one senior Arab defence source told Jane's .

The contract with Lockheed Martin, meanwhile, is being handled by the US Air Force under the Foreign Military Sales programme; 20 F-16C/D Block 52 multirole fighter aircraft are to be acquired.

The US Congress was first notified of the F-16 deal in October 2009, with the proposed package including advanced targeting and reconnaissance pods. While the number of aircraft included in the sale has decreased from 24 to 20, the value of the programme will also decrease from an initial cost estimate of USD3.2 billion.

Egypt's new acquisitions would substantially modernise and update its ageing inventory and allow the air force to begin replacing its F-4E Phantom, F-7B, Mirage 5 and MiG-21 combat aircraft.

Modernisation has been the watchword for all of Egypt's services for the last decade, as procurement and upgrades have taken a backseat to increasing the size and capabilities of the infantry force.

Any joint venture would involve Egyptian assembly and manufacturing, in line with rules dictating partnerships that were laid out with the establishment of AOI in 1975. AOI has already indigenously produced Chinese K-8E Karakoram jet trainers.

These new partnership avenues are being spurred on by regional security concerns, including Iran's nuclear programme and piracy threats to merchant marine traffic transiting the Suez Canal.

Lieutenant General Hamdi Wahiba, the director of AOI, said in comments to the official Middle East News Agency that Egypt was also investigating domestic production of an unmanned aerial vehicle. However, he declined to elaborate on the size, type and payload capabilities of the proposed drone.

 

[Kinshuk]

Pakistan has just postponed the induction of J 10 fighters till they are fully tested. And I think there is nothing wrong in denying the induction of a new fighter until it is fully tested.

Regards,

KS

 

[Vinod2070]

^^ That is just the way things are normally done! Why is it even a news?

 

[LETHALFORCE]

The J-10 has never been a complete plane there were always issues from the start from the engine,radar cooling system etc...in many ways the Chinese presented the J-10 as a J-17 and they are two very different planes. Putin has allowed the export of RD-33 to China and six other countries Pakistan is just one of the countries the other five are unknown but Egypt maybe one of them, the sale of RD-33 will probably finance the next generation engine above RD-33 that is going in the MIG-35 and China and Pakistan are just financing it. Any possible export of J-17 will have to be ok'd by Russia since they are supplying the engine and giving a few at a time and most seem to be used by China for their own airforce. Judging from how many sukhoi engines Russia produces the average maybe 1 -2 engines a month or 15 -18 engines maximum for the year??

 

[Armand2REP]

I don't see any export problems with Russia, unless they try selling them in Georgia.

 

[SATISH]

Well, Pakistan is taking the same gamble as we did with the Su 30MKI. They wanted to do something like the MKI. The Modified J 10 will be the frontline aircraft of Pakistan.

 

[gogbot]

Well, Pakistan is taking the same gamble as we did with the Su 30MKI. They wanted to do something like the MKI. The Modified J 10 will be the frontline aircraft of Pakistan.

you telling everyone here that the J-10 Modified can out perform the F-16's That the PAF already has.

So Unless you want to claim that the J-10 PAk receives is superior to the F-16. that Pak also has. You should not compare it as your answer to the MKI.

Because simply its not.

That's why the Chinese still use the J-11.

Pakistan's front line fighter is the JF-17
The only plane with orders in the triple digits

 

[LETHALFORCE]

If Pakistan and China are both using RD-33 engines for their frontline planes how fast can the Chinese/pakistanis produce these engines?? The average time it takes to build an engine is atleast a month, by the time the 3 digit order is filled newer generation planes will have arrived.

 

[SATISH]

you telling everyone here that the J-10 Modified can out perform the F-16's That the PAF already has.

So Unless you want to claim that the J-10 PAk receives is superior to the F-16. that Pak also has. You should not compare it as your answer to the MKI.

Because simply its not.

That's why the Chinese still use the J-11.

Pakistan's front line fighter is the JF-17
The only plane with orders in the triple digits

Read it carefully before jumping into conclusions...I talked about the way the J 10 is modified to make it a better machine than the existing one. That is what we did with the Su 30MK. They are doing that with the J 10A and converting it into J 10B. Pakistan's frontline and high-end fighters will be the J 10 and the F 16s. The JF 17 will be the mass of the AF. And where the hell did I compare the 2 aircrafts...I was talking about emulation of the business model.

 

[Kinshuk]

JF 17 is an economical plane. Nothing else would have sufficed the requirement of mass Induction, which they need to lesson the numerical gap between IAF and PAF. J 10 being superior platform, is expensive and we will only see them in large no in PAF if Pakistan economy performs well in future.

 

[tarunraju]

And wil u buy ur jets from every european country?
They dont care if ur india,pakistan or egypt the want $$$$$$$$

Realpolitik 101: Never arm both sides (or at least never get caught attempting). India won't buy what Pakistan does, and if you go about offering things to Pakistan, it's going to come at the expense of your prospects with the Indian market.

 

[ISI]

Yes...



Pakistan wanted more welfare F-16s, not Rafale. Pakistan is too poor to buy. It is just Pakdef fantasy that it happened. We don't give our fighters away like Americans.

F-16s are bought on hard cash.
Rafale was offered in mid 2000s.

We aren't offering you anything without government approval, which you do not have. Second block? Pakistan improving the Thunder Blunder?

Do u own sagem?or any or all french def companies?
Or does french government listen to indian french citizens on defence deals?
Should have done tht while your country was selling us ROSE programme,subs,night vision devices and transmission for our Al Khalid tank or missiles etc.

Vixen is by Selex of Italy and the version offered to Pakistan is the inferior 500.

Any links?LOL
Are italians the only ones with AESA?

France won't be selling you submarines when you kill our engineers for not paying kickbacks and then fail to convict the murderers.

And yet u offered marlyn?upgrades for JF-17 and other goodies clap

It doesn't have any weapons so it is defence, can also be used as an ATC device.

Yup its used by textile industry and has no links with defence capabilities.
Awsome.

No, we only buy our own jets. I'm from France, not India. Look at the flag.

Was i even talking to u?lol
Was replying to indian members.

True, we want money and there is way more of it to be had in India than a broke Pakistan.

In the past have we ever bought defence equipment on loans?
Next time do ur homework before ranting.

 

[Armand2REP]

F-16s are bought on hard cash.
Rafale was offered in mid 2000s.

Rafale was never offered. F-16s were bought with US miltiary aid.

Do u own sagem?or any or all french def companies?

My protfoliio, Dassault,Thales and Safron. Sagem merged to form Safron in 2005.

Or does french government listen to indian french citizens on defence deals?

My shares are Class A/B voting stock so I have a say.

Should have done tht while your country was selling us ROSE programme,subs,night vision devices and transmission for our Al Khalid tank or missiles etc.

Nothing we have sold you is on the level offered to India. You get second tier while India is first.

Any links?LOL
Are italians the only ones with AESA?

Why don't you google it? Italians are the only ones willling to offer Pakistan an AESA. I don't see France or US offering.

And yet u offered marlyn?upgrades for JF-17 and other goodies clap

We haven't officially offered anything. The security council hasn't cleared it and won't until India decides the MMRCA and future sub compeition.

Yup its used by textile industry and has no links with defence capabilities.
Awsome.

It doesn't have weapons, it is a radar.

Was i even talking to u?lol
Was replying to indian members.

Lets see... yep, response to post by "Armand2REP"

In the past have we ever bought defence equipment on loans?

Yeah, its called the IMF.

Next time do ur homework before ranting.

Next time, stop drinking Pakdef Koolaid before responding.