Pakistan, Caste and dilemma of quislings

LordOfTheUnderworlds

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Does Kanjar count?

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Not exactly, but that is tricky question. most people outside punjab would not know what it means (community of pimps) and might mistakenly believe it is caste related abuse.
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BTW you wrote in idiotic musing thread Pakistanis suffer from Stockholm syndrome.

That is true, not just a joke, but an objective scientifically correct description of Pakistan.

Read the description of quisling phenomenon above taken from Zombipedia, which is closely related to Stockholm syndrome.

When someone reads the phrase Stockholm syndrome, most people would presume it is some mysterious psychiatric disease. That is true; but it goes beyond that. Leave the disease part to doctors. But when you read about psychiatric illnesses, you would notice that most are just extreme manifestation of normal emotions present in everyone. e.g. Happiness and sadness are normal things but when it becomes excessive and out of control they call it mania and depression.

Stockholm syndrome is something abnormal, let us leave it to psychiatrists. But if you observe around you can find its manifestations in nature in normal situations. It is not some random occasional phenomenon. How do you train a wild animal? How do you explain loyalty of a dog or a castrated bull to the man?

We first need to understand the mind of enemy rationally, amorally, keeping aside emotions: both love and hate. I think Pakistani mind is easier to understand through zombie and animal behaviour.

Pakistanis can not be convinced rationally and treated as equal. They have to be tamed like an animal. It is not a question of choice between love and hate. Choices are only two: either India dominates or Pakistan dominates. There is no third option.



That is why India needs to use force, preferably war, to dominate Pakistan psychologically. But right now case is opposite. It is the Pakistan who dominates psychologically because india does not assert itself and refuses to use force and treats Pakistan equally as a normal nation with respect. It is naive to believe Pakistan will treat India same in return, because we do not understand their psychology. They just use this to assert their narrative forcefully and when they think they have enough strength, they attack us militarily. It is not their fault. Fault lies with India's approach.They can only understand master-slave relationship. If we don't act like master and tame them, they will tear us apart. And it is normal, because that is their nature.
 
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LordOfTheUnderworlds

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Kashmir Unrest: Hurriyat chairman Geelani has bandh calendar for every school except that of his grandchild
Over the last three weeks, a number of government school buildings were set on fire by unidentified people in Kashmir with the latest such incident occurring in Baramulla.
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25 schools burnt in Kashmir in 3-months of unrest


school-fire.jpg

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article-2488045-19371D3900000578-179_634x354.jpg



^^ Look at the zombified sheeple cheering him.

What does this highest caste Racist Syed with a name 'Geelani' has to do with Kashmir? either ethnically, culturally, geographically, historically. Why is he portrayed as representative of Kashmiri people?

Gilan is a region in faraway northwestern Iran.

This is Gilan province in Iran:
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Of course modern Iran itself is multi ethnic.
Map showing regions inhabited by Turkic people:
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Interview With Syed Ali Shah Geelani


For a Muslim, no action is permissible which is against Islam. How can we say that the sacrifices that the Muslims of Kashmir make, the tortures that they suffer, and the martyrdom that they meet have nothing to do with Islam, and that they won’t be rewarded by God for this? In this sense, it is a religious issue also. Islam teaches that Muslims must follow the guidance of Islam in every action of theirs—not just in prayers but also in matters such as war and peace, trade, international relations and so on, because Islam is a complete way of life. If a true Muslim participates in any struggle, it is for the sake of Islam. So, how can you say that the Kashmir conflict has nothing to do with religion?
We want to join Pakistan
 

LordOfTheUnderworlds

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http://m.thehindu.com/news/internat...-to-the-allure-of-jihadism/article9292477.ece

Analysing a leaked cache of Islamic State’s personnel records that was recently made available to researchers, a new World Bank analysis has found the factors most strongly associated with foreign individuals’ joining the organisation have to do with lack of economic and social inclusion in their country of residence. The analysis finds that terrorism cannot be associated with poverty or low levels of education.
Fair enough. But the question no one bothers the explore is what exactly is this lack of economic and social inclusion and what is the root cause for it.
 

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meh
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We first need to understand the mind of enemy rationally, amorally, keeping aside emotions: both love and hate. I think Pakistani mind is easier to understand through zombie and animal behaviour.

Pakistanis can not be convinced rationally and treated as equal. They have to be tamed like an animal. It is not a question of choice between love and hate. Choices are only two: either India dominates or Pakistan dominates. There is no third option.
Well said, I completely agree this is what I keep saying every day as well but some people on the forums fall into the trap of moral uprightness and fail to understand that animals do not understand the concept of morals and follow the principal of "survival of the fittest". Either eat or prepare to be eaten.

http://m.thehindu.com/news/internat...-to-the-allure-of-jihadism/article9292477.ece


Fair enough. But the question no one bothers the explore is what exactly is this lack of economic and social inclusion and what is the root cause for it.
I don't get it, isn't a lack of economic inclusion the same as poverty?
 

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https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2009/may/03/pakistan-taliban-military-swat

No institution dominates Pakistan like its army. The armed forces account for 20% of Pakistan's national budget, totalling $5bn last year according to official statistics. But the actual figure, already staggering for a country with high levels of illiteracy and malnutrition, is likely to be much higher. The army has been practically unaccountable since the very foundation of the country – last year's figures were the first it has publicly released since 1965.

Those aren't the only imposing figures. It has some 650,000 active soldiers and another half million in reserve, and internal discipline – strict loyalty to the high command among the rank and file – is very high.

Every one of Pakistan's democratically-elected civilian leaders has been forced to abdicate by the army. A general has directly ruled the country for 34 of its 62 years of existence.

With this vice-like grip on power, many are wondering how a rural insurgency armed with basic weapons has managed to overrun so much of the country. The answers have much to do with the Pakistan army itself.

Part of the problem is that the army is equipped for a conventional war against its historical adversary to the east, India, and not the type of insurgency being waged by the Taliban on the frontier to the west. Its operations in the tribal areas have been imprecise, leading to the destruction of many thousands of civilian lives and livelihood. Up to a million are believed to have been displaced by the conflict.

"Collateral damage always strengthens the Taliban, it helps them get more public support," says Abdul Hakim (not his real name), a journalist from Dir, a tribal agency, next to the Swat valley, in which the Taliban are slowly moving.

But there have been only limited, poorly-coordinated attempts to re-engage with communities devastated by armed operations against the Taliban. As a result the Army and government authorities have sheepishly ended up signing peace deals with the Taliban over the past four years. They have all consistently broken down, the Taliban using the lull in hostilities to regroup and rearm.

The most recent peace deal, over the Swat valley, is on the verge of collapse owing to continued Taliban operations in neighbouring areas.

There are lingering doubts about the Army's resolve to combat the Taliban too, as has been suggested when it initially sent up a lightly armed squad of paramilitaries to fight the Taliban in the Buner valley, just below Swat, even though the region is close to the nation's capital.

Another factor is the fact that many of the army's soldiers involved in operations are Pashtun like the Taliban. This has left the high command nervous about tackling the insurgents head-on for fear of causing rifts within the ranks. Although far from a mutiny, many soldiers have refused to fight their fellow tribesman or have surrendered and deserted.

But that has not prevented the army from engaging in operations that have been highly destabilising for tribal Pashtun communities in the affected areas. People fleeing the conflict in Swat and Bajaur, a tribal agency to the west on the border with Afghanistna, told me they felt that the army was, in fact, targeting them and not the Taliban. Some argued this was because the army feared Taliban reprisals. Others insisted they were being targeted because of their support for the Pashtun nationalist Awami National party, which runs the North West Frontier province government.

The truth of rumours such as these, common in Pakistan, are difficult to quantify. But one need not look to rumours to understand why the Pakistan army has failed to defeat the Taliban.

The army has a long history of strategic incompetence stretching back to the very first war the country fought with India in 1948. On that occasion, tribal militants from the regions now in open insurrection against Pakistan flooded into Indian-controlled Kashmir. After overwhelming Indian soldiers there, they promptly went on a binge of rape and looting while the army looked on.

Again at war with India, in 1965, the better-equipped Pakistan army lost more ground, and tanks, than its adversary. But perhaps the army's darkest moment was the 1971 war that lead to the creation of Bangladesh. That conflict saw Pakistan troops involved in widespread acts of extermination against the indigenous Bengali population of what was, at the time, known as East Pakistan.

The Hamoodur Rahman Commission held in Pakistan following that war found large swathes of the high command to be deeply negligent – the commander of Pakistani forces in East Pakistan, the report revealed, was involved in sexual misconduct even as his troops were killing, and being killed, on the battlefield.

In 1999, an ambitious Pakistani general by the name of Pervez Musharraf devised the tactically brilliant, but strategically near-suicidal, plan to invade Kargil, an Indian mountain post in Kashmir. That gamble nearly led to nuclear war, and almost certainly led to a military coup later that year.

How does one explain these failures? There can be no one explanation. But if there is an overriding message from these debacles, it is that the army is ill-equipped to defend the state because it has captured much of the bedrock of the state to which it is totally unaccountable.

According to Ayesha Siddiqua, in her seminal study, "Military Inc", the army's private business assets are worth around £10bn and it owns a handsome share of the country's business and land. The generals, as a result, appear to be more interested in leveraging control over businesses, properties and politics.

Yet, the army's power is such that although Pakistan's private media have a commendable record of criticising the country's civilian politicians, criticism of the men in uniform is rare – save during periods of crisis under direct military rule, like the dismissal of the chief justice in 2007.

It would be unfair, however, to criticise the army without acknowledging the pivotal role played by its greatest patrons – the United States, and, to a lesser extent, China. Since the 1950s, both countries have lavished military and political support on the Pakistan army.

"Nobody has occupied the White House who is friendlier to Pakistan than me," is what US President Richard Nixon told Pakistan's then military dictator, Yahya Khan, at a 1970 dinner in Washington, on the eve of the murderous war in East Pakistan. More recently, former President George Bush's praise for Pervez Musharraf has become the stuff of folklore.

The army has been rewarded by its foreign patrons despite its incompetence and unaccountability. In the process, civilian political life has been grotesquely stunted, leading the democratic process to be replaced by a crude kleptocracy where non-military leaders represent personal dynasties and not the people.

Is it any wonder, then, that the army struggles to find a concerted strategy for defeating the Taliban?
 

LordOfTheUnderworlds

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I don't get it, isn't a lack of economic inclusion the same as poverty?
Google says "Economic inclusion refers to equality of opportunity for all members of society to participate in the economic life of their country as employers, entrepreneurs, consumers, and citizens. "

So poverty is result of lack of economic inclusion.

e.g. in rigid caste system which developed around relatively static agrarian economy and solidified and sanctified by religious dictates, some groups will have to permanently languish in poverty because they are almost completely excluded from social and economic system or even if part of the system, the system itself is defective and can not create enough resources for all the population or prevent proper distribution of resources. Human beings live in a complex social system. Most people don't live in jungles surviving on the basic resources nature provides with primitive lifestyle. Even if we decide to go back to such primitive lifestyle, nature can not feed so much of human population. We have to create higher form of civilizations and more complex economy for that.


In this case we are talking about Muslims. But stop by saying their condition is result of social and economic exclusion. But who is responsible for that?

If it was one-off event or localized to one place maybe local conditions or events can be blamed. But this is a global phenomenon. If someone is serious to really study the problem they have to first find what are the common factors in all of these places and then exclude them one by one. One obvious factor common in all these places is Islam. But it is taboo to touch it. Instead people prefer nitpicking by blaming some local events and explaining the conditions of Islamic societies in bits and pieces.

It makes no difference to the elites, they can leech on majority populace, live in their ivory towers and say it is not the fault of the system, but of jahil awaam. After-all, the elites owe their position to the system.

But for the Bahujan samaj it costs quality of life and their right to live with dignity.

No jiziya, therefore, lack of economic inclusion.
Islam itself is a complete social and economic system controlling all aspects of life of the followers.

On top of that it is extremely rigid because of the rule that no criticism or change allowed in the original source material.

So the followers are trapped completely in it. They have to live and die within the system and act within the limits set by it. But it is incompatible with modern societies. It can not create adequate resources and opportunities for a larger population if there is no captive population to extract loot, jaziya or basic resources like oil to sell. (Pakistan does not have oil or adequate military power to extract jaziya from India. It recieved fertile land with ready-made canal system to feed for few years. But as population and their needs grow, it has to pimp itself for aid to west or sell land to china or men and women and children [mercineries, slaves, prostitutes] to gulf). Muslim Bahujan samaj is trapped in an economic system based on medieval tribal society in specific very sparsely populated region for which the only major economic resources were looting and plundering by a kabila on the move, some trade, khajoor and olive oil. That limits their ability to adjust to the more complex economy.
 
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Abhijat

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Google says "Economic inclusion refers to equality of opportunity for all members of society to participate in the economic life of their country as employers, entrepreneurs, consumers, and citizens. "

So poverty is result of lack of economic inclusion.

e.g. in rigid caste system which developed around relatively static agrarian economy and solidified and sanctified by religious dictates, some groups will have to permanently languish in poverty because they are almost completely excluded from social and economic system or even if part of the system, the system itself is defective and can not create enough resources for all the population or prevent proper distribution of resources. Human beings live in a complex social system. Most people don't live in jungles surviving on the basic resources nature provides with primitive lifestyle. Even if we decide to go back to such primitive lifestyle, nature can not feed so much of human population. We have to create higher form of civilizations and more complex economy for that.


In this case we are talking about Muslims. But stop by saying their condition is result of social and economic exclusion. But who is responsible for that?

If it was one-off event or localized to one place maybe local conditions or events can be blamed. But this is a global phenomenon. If someone is serious to really study the problem they have to first find what are the common factors in all of these places and then exclude them one by one. One obvious factor common in all these places is Islam. But it is taboo to touch it. Instead people prefer nitpicking by blaming some local events and explaining the conditions of Islamic societies in bits and pieces.

It makes no difference to the elites, they can leech on majority populace, live in their ivory towers and say it is not the fault of the system, but of jahil awaam. After-all, the elites owe their position to the system.

But for the Bahujan samaj it costs quality of life and their right to live with dignity.



Islam itself is a complete social and economic system controlling all aspects of life of the followers.

On top of that it is extremely rigid because of the rule that no criticism or change allowed in the original source material.

So the followers are trapped completely in it. They have to live and die within the system and act within the limits set by it. But it is incompatible with modern societies. It can not create adequate resources and opportunities for a larger population if there is no captive population to extract loot, jaziya or basic resources like oil to sell. (Pakistan does not have oil or adequate military power to extract jaziya from India. It recieved fertile land with ready-made canal system to feed for few years. But as population and their needs grow, it has to pimp itself for aid to west or sell land to china or men and women and children [mercineries, slaves, prostitutes] to gulf). Muslim Bahujan samaj is trapped in an economic system based on medieval tribal society in specific very sparsely populated region for which the only major economic resources were looting and plundering by a kabila on the move, some trade, khajoor and olive oil. That limits their ability to adjust to the more complex economy.
Sir ji, could you please throw more light on above coloured part ?
 

LordOfTheUnderworlds

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Ex-senator and PPP leader Faisal Raza Abidi was arrested on Friday by law enforcement agencies and shifted to an undisclosed location for further interrogation.
https://www.thenews.com.pk/latest/162499-LEAs-arrest-former-senator-Faisal-Raza-Abidi
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This guy was shia equivalent of the sunni zaid hamid. Both Syed (or claiming to be syed)

Sad, one more source of entertainment gone.

I think the shia guy sounds (relatively) more sophisticated and articulate in his rants compared to the sunni one who speaks like a foul mouthed street urchin.

Also both were obsessed with so called game changer C(I)PEC and Gwadar, but shia guy was more interested in refinery with supply from pipeline from Iran.
 

LordOfTheUnderworlds

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Sir ji, could you please throw more light on above coloured part ?
I was accusing that such scholarly sounding socio economic studies are usually not honest in their analysis of why Muslim masses are poor and downtrodden, and that their intention is not finding the solution to their condition. They have inherent bias with an unwritten rule that religion can not be blamed. Hence they attribute the findings to some local variables or are just observational in nature simply chronicling the events.

It is true that large number of Muslims are suffering from poverty and deprivation. But the problems are Muslims are not localized to one country, they are similar world over. Even when living as minority in other societies, they form a ghetto and create a subsystem thus still bound by the constraints of Islamism. If you visit Muslim majority areas anywhere in world they have certain common 'feel'. In general, when compared to general population they are poorer, and unable to participate in more productive or sophisticated jobs, instead earning through physical labour, running restaurants, gaming the system, handouts from government and criminal activities. They have very high rate of crime and a specialty-gang rapes.

The most obvious common variable in all these societies is Islam itself as a political-economic system and that variable itself is excluded from the study and hence these studies are biased and don't give complete picture.
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Question is; is findings faults in Islamism, which is a political-economic system, being racist and intolerant?

I say it is opposite. Sanctimoniously saying that all religions are equal, someone misinterpreted it and blaming it on the illiterate masses is bad. It is like saying they are some genetically different subhuman beings and are responsible for their own condition and deserve living like that. That sounds more racist to me.
 

LordOfTheUnderworlds

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Iranian films to be screened in Pakistani cinemas

ISLAMABAD: The Pakistani cinemas are all set to screen Iranian films after a ban on Indian content in the country.

The move came in a bid to save the declining Pakistan film industry and restore its glory. The industry was previously functional with screening of Indian movies but after the imposition of the ban it is somewhat facing difficulties, IRNA reported.

Pakistan film distributors have initiated formal contacts in Iran and Turkey for the import of their movies.

Earlier Executive Director of Pakistan National Institute for Folk and Traditional Heritage (Lok Virsa) Fouzia Saeed talking to IRNA said that Iranian movies which are culturally very close to Pakistani society ought to be screened in Pakistani cinemas.
Quoting a comment on a thread about above news because it summarises the mentality which serves as a base on which entire thought process of an upper caste Pakistani is constructed:

I know Pakistan is going through identity crisis since its inception.
There is none.You indians have your own racial identity, heritage, dna, physical appearance, culture and way of life and we have our's. Both are different to one another and cannot be understood. As you indians cannot understand Pakistani racial heritage and culture you interpret it as "identity crisis".
If you see carefully, this argument could only apply to upper caste muslims whose identity is derived from the claim that they are the pureblooded descendents of foreign invaders (hence racially superior to the rest of awaam).

So naturally, one would expect such a thing coming from an upper caste Muslim from the geography that is now republic of India. In reality however one would notice that a large number of such comments come from Pakistani Punjabi and Pashtun elites with some relative in military.

Does this jumping from Ganga-Jamuna to Punjab make sense?

It does make sense if you know this Punjabi military officer and landlord class is a new addition in recent decades, to the elite Muslim class and they have adopted the language and identity of the original Urdu speaking upper castes to such extent that they banned Punjabi language in schools in Punjab.
 
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Iranian films to be screened in Pakistani cinemas



Quoting a comment on a thread about above news because it summarises the mentality which serves as a base on which entire thought process of an upper caste Pakistani is constructed:



If you see carefully, this argument could only apply to upper caste muslims whose identity is derived from the claim that they are the pureblooded descendents of foreign invaders (hence racially superior to the rest of awaam).

So naturally, one would expect such a thing coming from an upper caste Muslim from the geography that is now republic of India. In reality however one would notice that a large number of such comments come from Pakistani Punjabi and Pashtun elites with some relative in military.

Does this jumping from Ganga-Jamuna to Punjab make sense?

It does make sense if you know this Punjabi military officer and landlord class is a new addition in recent decades, to the elite Muslim class and they have adopted the language and identity of the original Urdu speaking upper castes.
First off, I'd like to say that you are my favorite poster on these forums and I read every single post of yours.

Who are these so called upper caste Muslims with invader blood? The syeds? Time and again DNA has proven that they are no different from the average Pakistani - they might have had some foreign DNA at one point but it has been so intermingled that its no longer any different. For the rest of Pakistan - Pakistani Punjabis are EXACTLY identical to Indian Punjabis and Pathans are VERY similar to Punjabis in DNA as well.

Here are the admixtures from Hadappa ancestry project

|South Indian | North Indian | Caucasian | NE European |
Pakistani-jatt-muslim harappa | 30% | 39% | 12% | 8% |
Indian-punjabi-jatt-sikh harappa | 28% | 39% | 10% | 12% |
pashtun harappa 7 | 23% | 42% | 16% | 11% |

As you see, everybody is pretty close genetically. I understand the claim of difference in culture because of adoption of Islam and continuing attempts to create a new identity since 1947 but what is this racial identity that the average Pakistani claims?
 

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On the above mentioned thread I casually said most cinema owners in Pakistan must be Shias. On little digging I think it might be true.

Why are most of the people in Pakistani entertainment Shias?

quoting some comments from the link

Asif
Why are most of the people in Pakistani entertainment Shias?
I don't mean it offensively to any Shia on here but from reading and experience it seems that most of the singers/dancers/actors/actresses of Pakistan are Shia Muslims. Not all but most. Also why are most of the people in Shahi Mohalla also Shia Muslims? (eg Talat Hussain, Shaukat Ali, Reema, Amanat Ali Khan, Asad Amanat Ali Khan, etc etc etc)

Is there a reason for that? Do the Shia ulama have a less strict view on music and dance than Sunni ulama?

This is not meant to be a religious discussion just an observation...

:)
Shia as a community are quite developed in the arts. I don't have any particular reason but just a few observations: Most smaller communities tend to be quite well off eg. Ahmadis in Education, Jews in many things. So I suppose the same could be said about Shias.
mAd_ScIeNtIsT
It nothing other than the fact that the Shahi Mohalla has historically been the pre-eminemt cultural/entertainment (both moral and immoral forms of entertainment) centre of Punjab for centuries, ever since the time of the Mughals. The Shahi Mohalla is a predominantly Shia neighbourhood - read "Taboo" by Fauzia Saeed and you'll see.


    • I heard that many poet are shias like farhat abas shah, mohsan naqvi,washi shah etc

agreed !!

I heard that many poet are shias like farhat abas shah, mohsan naqvi,washi shah etc
kabir
TO understand it you have to turn back the pages of history
iam talking of undivided india or the mughal india
during the mughal rule most of the people in arts were shias and esp most of the singers, dancers or courtesans.most courtesans of lucknow were shias.
when cineman first arrived in british india the females who acted in movies most of them were courtesans or shias
meena kumari
nargis
saira banus mother
and so many others and these courtesans were royal courtesans who were learned women of that time.
so today you see a large number of shia presence even in indian film industry
ferozkhan
sanjay khan
shabana azmi
tabbu
and so many others
Saif-ul-Islam
MiraasiyouN ka kya deen imaan hona hai???

Look at Junaid bhai... kuch din pehlay kesi maulviyouN waali baatein kar rahay thay and yesterday I saw him on ARY Digital and the beard and the amamah turban was gone and the kinky leather pants were back on...
it does matter... the media being hijacked in muhurram... media shapes how one think.... atleast shapes the majority way of thi nking it.......

sorry to make this comparision ...but this is how jews started ruling the world...but getting hold of media beside otherthings....
My comment: most of the Pakistani actors and pop singers featured in Hindi movies in recent years are probably Shias.

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It does make sense. Puritanical Sunnis call shias as deviant. In regions with purer forms of Islamism, culture is more primitive and tribal e.g. Saudi Arabia, Taliban era Afghanistan. On contrary, Shia areas have relatively more developed arts and culture e.g. Urdu poetry-wine-tawayaf culture of Lucknow.
 
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LordOfTheUnderworlds

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http://defenceforumindia.com/forum/...n-idiotic-musings.21193/page-398#post-1229624

View attachment 11547


LoL


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Pakistanis curse Afghans and at the same time name their missiles after Abdali and boast to Indians that he is 'their own'.

They curse natives of India and claim tribal warlords of central asia (who are 'their own') brought civilization to uncivilized India; they they read about Indus valley civilization and feel jealous and claim they actually own it because the greedy bunch and thieves that they are, they would not let go of anything that seems precious artefact.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dissociative_identity_disorder
Dissociative identity disorder (DID), previously known as multiple personality disorder (MPD),[1] is a mental disorder characterized by at least two distinct and relatively enduring identities or dissociated personality states that alternately show in a person's behavior, accompanied by memory impairment for important information not explained by ordinary forgetfulness.
This is multiple personality disorder; it originates from their identity crisis which is result of still incomplete process of Islamic zombification. The problem is that Pakistani identity needs them to believe they are central asians/persians/arabs. But their process of zombification is incomplete with too many signs of Indianness and the memories of conversion still fresh. So they have to carry both the identities in their brain at the same time.

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Another word Indians often use in relation to Pakistanis is 'projection'. Actually it is not just a taunt but explains Pakistani behaviour very well:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dissociative_identity_disorder

Psychological projection is a theory in psychology in which humans defend themselves against their own unconscious impulses or qualities (both positive and negative) by denying their existence in themselves while attributing them to others.[1] For example, a person who is habitually rude may constantly accuse other people of being rude. It incorporates blame shifting.

According to some research, the projection of one's unconscious qualities onto others is a common process in everyday life.
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That results in such complications. :

When a Pakistani is talking about Indians, he will say 'we' came from beyond khyber and gave civilization to uncouth Indians, he will ask 'remember Panipat', he will call Indians 'daalkhor' and boast they are taller and fairer meat eaters. Indians will abuse him as uncouth barbarians, bacha baaz etc

When the same Pakistani goes to some Pashtun forum they will call the Pakistani as 'daalkhor' and remind him we made you muslims and brought higher civilization to you darkies and Pakistani will say don't talk like that, we are Muslim brothers na? boo hoo : (. Then the Pakistani will get angry and project what Indians talked to him and call them Pashtuns and Uzbeks as barbarians, bacha baaz etc same abuses that he heard from Indians. Sometimes even the Pashtuns will be pissed off with northerners and call them bach baaz barbarians. Then he will go back and name another missile after some medieval barbarian central asian warlord and bomb some poor Pashtuns.
 
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http://defenceforumindia.com/forum/...n-idiotic-musings.21193/page-398#post-1229624



Pakistanis curse Afghans and at the same time name their missiles after Abdali and boast to Indians that he is 'their own'.

They curse natives of India and claim tribal warlords of central asia (who are 'their own') brought civilization to uncivilized India; they they read about Indus valley civilization and feel jealous and claim they actually own it because the greedy bunch and thieves that they are, they would not let go of anything that seems precious artefact.



This is multiple personality disorder; it originates from their identity crisis which is result of still incomplete process of Islamic zombification. The problem is that Pakistani identity needs them to believe they are central asians/persians/arabs. But their process of zombification is incomplete with too many signs of Indianness and the memories of conversion still fresh. So they have to carry both the identities in their brain at the same time.

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Another word Indians often use in relation to Pakistanis is 'projection'. Actually it is not just a taunt but explains Pakistani behaviour very well:


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That results in such complications. :

When a Pakistani is talking about Indians, he will say 'we' came from beyond khyber and gave civilization to uncouth Indians, he will ask 'remember Panipat', he will call Indians 'daalkhor' and boast they are taller and fairer meat eaters. Indians will abuse him as uncouth barbarians, bacha baaz etc

When the same Pakistani goes to some Pashtun forum they will call the Pakistani as 'daalkhor' and remind him we made you muslims and brought higher civilization to you darkies and Pakistani will say don't talk like that, we are Muslim brothers na? boo hoo : (. Then the Pakistani will get angry and project what Indians talked to him and call them Pashtuns and Uzbeks as barbarians, bacha baaz etc same abuses that he heard from Indians. Sometimes even the Pashtuns will be pissed off with northerners and call them bach baaz barbarians. Then he will go back and name another missile after some medieval barbarian central asian warlord and bomb some poor Pashtuns.
I also forgot to mention that the same Pashtuns who call the Pakistanis "Daalkhor" are called "Daalkhor" themselves in Afghanistan by Tajiks so the cycle continues.
 

LordOfTheUnderworlds

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Pakistan is full of martial race people, those Jatts of Pakistan including Agnikula people of Pothwari areas have Scythian and Hun ancestry proven through genetics, that is why Pakistan is the honor killing land and has the most on the planet, just Haryana is equal to them and that is only because Haryana Jaat shows 20% Siberian genes on harappa test, Pakistanis in general are taller than Indians except for the Sikhs of sutlej who tower over Pakistanis also and are usually 6 ft 5 - 7 ft 5, that is only because they have central asian saka origins also, majority of Pakistan and Haryana was Sakadwipa, just areas of Fatehpur India show Pakistani type people, those Gujjars are robust males also.
You sound like one repeatedly banned member.
 

LordOfTheUnderworlds

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The establishment’s dilemma

[
QUOTE]THE oligarchy which runs Pakistan, often called the establishment, is in a quandary. The problem is that whatever it says through its diplomats abroad — and with however much energy — the world insists on perceiving Pakistan as an ideological state wedded to exporting jihad.[/QUOTE]

From Pakistan’s birth onwards, the establishment has set Pakistan’s international and domestic postures, policies, and priorities. Today it rules on the extent and means by which India and America are to be confronted, and how China and Saudi Arabia are to be wooed. It sanctions, as well as limits, militant proxy forces for use across borders; closely controls what may or may not be discussed in the public media; and determines whether Balochistan or Sindh is to be handled with a velvet glove or banged with an iron fist.

Establishment members are serving and retired generals, politicians in office and some in the opposition, ex-ambassadors and diplomats, civil servants, and selected businessmen. The boundaries are fluid — as some move in, others move out. In earlier days English was the preferred language of communication but this morphed into Urdu as the elite indigenised, became less cosmopolitan, and developed firmer religious roots.

Arguably, most forms of government anywhere are reducible to the rule of a few. In Pakistan’s case how few is few? In 1996 Mushahid Husain, long an establishment insider and currently a senator, had sized the establishment at around 500 persons plus a list of wannabes many times this number.

Stephen Cohen, an astute observer of Pakistani politics over the decades, remarks that establishment membership is not assured even for those occupying the highest posts of office unless they have demonstrated loyalty to a set of “core values”. That India is Pakistan’s archenemy — perhaps in perpetuity — is central. As a corollary, nuclear weapons are to be considered Pakistan’s greatest asset and extra-state actors an important, yet deniable, means of equalising military imbalances. These, and other, assumptions inform Pakistan’s ‘national interest’.
National interest is defined exclusively in relation to India. This means resolving Kashmir on Pakistan’s terms, ensuring strategic depth against India via a Talibanised Afghanistan, nurturing the Pakistan-China relationship to neutralise Indian power, etc. To “borrow” power through military alliances against India is seen as natural. Hence, switching from America’s protection to China’s happened effortlessly.
Missing from the establishment’s perception of national interest is a positive vision for Pakistan’s future. I could not find any enthusiastic call for Pakistan to explore space, become a world leader in science, have excellent universities, develop literature and the arts, deal with critical environmental issues, achieve high standards of justice and financial integrity, and create a poverty-free society embodying equalitarian principles.

This lopsided view has distorted Pakistan’s priorities away from being a normal state to one that lives mentally under perpetual siege.


Dawn is needling 'establishment' too much. Maybe some internal politics. First Cyril Almeida and now this, they could be crossing the lines, though it is not unusual for the elite media outlets in Pakistan to be so bold. Not sure how much but the self proclaimed liberal outlets like Dawn, tribune seem to be dominated by urbane Shias and other wealthy minorities. I find them relatively more polished and classy in contrast to the the crude ISI sponsored outlets like ARY news.


Anyway this Shia scientist is one of the most liberal and free thinking people you could get in Pakistan. But being Pakistani by fate, even he could not avoid puking about Kashmir as an obligatory sentence. What does this non-Indian Khoja Gujarati has to do with Kashmir?
 
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LordOfTheUnderworlds

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It is not unusual for Pakistani media to be so bold. They brought Musharraf to his knees in his later days.

On the other hand one often hears how any dissent is brutally silenced in Pakistan and it is one of the most dangerous places for journalists. Why this contradiction; how can some be so bold?

Not to take credit from some brave journalists; the mainstream media people also belong to the same elite class. They stay in and work from Lahore/Karachi/Islamabad which are like imperial centre and hence they are also part of larger family and can stretch their limits to great extent without repercussions. These are the advantages of living close to the imperial centre. Sometimes someone crosses too many lines and gets shot like Hamid Mir.

Also Pakistanis are not yet completely zombified and still have some Indianness left, they inherited British Indian cities and maintained somewhat same structure. They even have Indian language as national language. Hence somewhat similar freedom (at least in pockets) and similar multicultural, multi-ethnic society still held together. As they get more and more zombified, expect their ethnic relations becoming more and more like Afghanistan or middle east always fighting each others.
 
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