Pakistan again seeks US intervention on Kashmir

[Neo]

The level of independence that you have given to AJK isn't it?

No AFSPA free kill tickets in AK unlike IoK or hundreds of thousands occupying soldiers so they are much better off I guess.

 

[Sea Eagle]

No AFSPA free kill tickets in AK unlike IoK or hundreds of thousands occupying soldiers so they are much better off I guess.

And what about the Mass Graves in Baluchistan that your military is hiding from the world.

 

[ladder]

No AFSPA free kill tickets in AK unlike IoK or hundreds of thousands occupying soldiers so they are much better off I guess.

What about NA populace? Does AFSPA or the lack of it, is the sole pointer?

 

[Compersion]

According to SA - it is a wonderful agreement and i love quoting it:

In order to achieve this objective, the Government of India and the Government of Pakistan have agreed as follows:

(i) That the principles and purposes of the Charter of the United Nations shall govern the relations between the two countries.
(ii) That the two countries are resolved to settle their differences by peaceful means through bilateral negotiations or by any other peaceful means mutually agreed upon between them. Pending the final settlement of any of the problems between the two countries, neither side shall unilaterally alter the situation and both shall prevent the organization, assistance or encouragement of any acts detrimental to the maintenance of peace and harmonious relations.
(iii) That the prerequisite for reconciliation, good neighborliness and durable peace between them is a commitment by both the countries to peaceful coexistence respect for each others territorial integrity and sovereignty and noninterference in each others internal affairs, on the basis of equality and mutual benefit. That the basic issues and causes of conflict which have bedeviled the relations between the two countries for the last 25 years shall be resolved by peaceful means.
(v) That they shall always respect each others national unity, territorial integrity, political independence and sovereign equality.
(vi) That in accordance with the Charter of the United Nations, they will refrain from the threat or use of force against the territorial integrity or political independence of each other.

Simla Agreement - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

What happens if Pakistan breaches the agreement. This is a principle and most important agreement between the two countries that has shaped and determined their relationship and (some can say partial) breaching of it demands a immense recompense. The above are prerequisite(s). The intent of the agreement was to show to Pakistan that India does not have ill-intent towards it and wants to see it subsist - and that is clearly slept out for even the dumbest and most foolish.

It seems that a period of a little peace and little enhancement (not improvement) has started to make the Paki leaders think everything is normal and they are normal and everyone ought to treat them normally. This small period that Pakistan is feeling is owing to India no doubt and other partners in the international community including the USA. Now Pakistan wants to forget the past and say that has got nothing to do with the present. How ironic when they bring up the past and Kashmir.

Also importantly who says India has said anything about negotiating anything to do with India Administrated Kashmir. India is well equipped and has the maturity to talk to the people of India Administrated Kashmir and has provided them more self-determination and benefits somesay compared to whole of Pakistan (one continuous democratic elections means nothing). One can say the only issue of negotiation and discussion is on the Pakistan Occupied Kashmir portion. Keeping the LOC like it is works in India favor because the Pakis are confused in their Kashmir policy. What are they doing in Kashmir anyway. Is it part of Pakistan, Is it independent, What about self-determination. Make them to spell out their official position. Its ever-changing. If they refer to UN resolutions ask them what are they doing in Kashmir - where does it say that and how did they get there. If they say that it is about self-determination of the people of Kashmir. Ask them to take the steps that India has done into the area of POK and wait for its implementation and Pakistan is the last country in the universe that needs to teach anyone about self-determination. Keeping the LOC in my opinion works in India favor because it keeps alive the dimension of integrating and reestablishing Jammu and Kashmir part of Republic of India and a important implication and significance that India never gave up on Kashmir and people of Kashmir and wants Jammu and Kashmir to be one and has risked its lives and fought for such (unlike Pakistan that gave away parts of Kashmir to PRC - double standards - whats the intention and what people of Kashmir think about that).

Even before that there is too many problem and issues and anomalies that Pakistan needs to fix before it even start to think about the above.

This includes:
- Will there be a democratic election after the current administration finishes its term.
- The explicit Afghanistan and the terrorist policy of Pakistan.
- The Arab policy of Pakistan and their involvement in Shia and Sunni dimensions.
- There is and was nuclear proliferation with the Paki fingerprints. North Korea, Iran, Libya, and more.
- There is western PRC dynamics.
- There is Islamic extremism globally with Paki fingerprints.
- There is economy and chance of default.
- There are non-state actors and areas where there is no proper control.
- The assumption that Raw, Mossad, CIA are creating chaos.
- The Shia composition of Pakistan Occupied Kashmir and do they want to be part of Pakistan.
- The treatment of minorities in Pakistan (including Shias).
- The tension between Military and Political forces.
- Musharraf.
- Failure to grasp international law, sovereignty and principles of national unity, territorial integrity, political independence and sovereign equality of its own area(s).
- Drone attacks.
- The Mass Graves in Baluchistan
- and more.

I wonder if before making the statement on Kashmir to the Americans (and anyone else) did the Paki PM think what the international community is more concerned about in Pakistan (pick a top three of the above). It is a non-starter and Pakistan has lost its comprehension and intention long time ago on anything to do with Kashmir and needs to worry about many other things. This actually started when they signed the Shimla Agreement and has evolved more and more to the present day.

 

[Neo]

And what about the Mass Graves in Baluchistan that your military is hiding from the world.

Pay attention please, the topic is Kashmir.

 

[Bhadra]

Pay attention please, the topic is Kashmir.

Yes, the entire Kashmir which includes the part Pakistan is illegally occupying which India is yet to take back.

 

[Bhadra]

No AFSPA free kill tickets in AK unlike IoK or hundreds of thousands occupying soldiers so they are much better off I guess.

Yes, India failed to Colonises and enforce demographic invasion of Kashmir in similar manners as Pakistan Punjabised POK. Soldier occupy the territory to perform their task. If you are so pained by our soldiers, let Pakistan demilitarise the POK and then Indians may think over.

At this point of time if India announces that all those living in POK will be granted Indian Citizenship, there will be rebellion in POK and entire Pakistani population will shift to POK to become Indian citizens. I bet that.

 

[Neo]

Yes, the entire Kashmir which includes the part Pakistan is illegally occupying which India is yet to take back.

Maybe the UN should send experts to look into the alleged forged Instrument to Accession document Hari Singh signed AFTER the Indian troops had landed in Srinagar. The British have an original copy of the letter where as the Indian copy was conveniently "misplaced" for years.

 

[Neo]

Yes, India failed to Colonises and enforce demographic invasion of Kashmir in similar manners as Pakistan Punjabised POK. Soldier occupy the territory to perform their task. If you are so pained by our soldiers, let Pakistan demilitarise the POK and then Indians may think over.

At this point of time if India announces that all those living in POK will be granted Indian Citizenship, there will be rebellion in POK and entire Pakistani population will shift to POK to become Indian citizens. I bet that.

Well she was more successful in annexing other territories like Hyderabad Daccan and Goa....

 

[Bhadra]

Well she was more successful in annexing other territories like Hyderabad Daccan and Goa....

With your logic, Indians must force you back to Gazani, Mangolia and Turky or Afghnistan... to redress history.

But the history does not happen that way. ..

Or India must ask for a referendum in NWFP, Tribal Areas and Baluchistan, may be Sindh also...

Bengalis have done their act. Now these people are left.....

Do not forget those were parts of India and Indians have moral responsibilities towards them..

 

[Bhadra]

Maybe the UN should send experts to look into the alleged forged Instrument to Accession document Hari Singh signed AFTER the Indian troops had landed in Srinagar. The British have an original copy of the letter where as the Indian copy was conveniently "misplaced" for years.

UN Kya Kya to karega ?

Can UN determine on excesses of Ghori and Gazhani, Aurangzeb and Nizams, the documents signed between Pakistan and Nawab of Kalat, the forcible annexation of the Pashtun areas, the rape of Sindh...

UN could perhaps investigate war crimes of Pakistanis in Bangladesh...in Afghanistan and Baluchistan...

You have very weak arguments..

 

[Neo]

UN Kya Kya to karega ?

Can UN determine on excesses of Ghori and Gazhani, Aurangzeb and Nizams, the documents signed between Pakistan and Nawab of Kalat, the forcible annexation of the Pashtun areas, the rape of Sindh...

UN could perhaps investigate war crimes of Pakistanis in Bangladesh...in Afghanistan and Baluchistan...

You have very weak arguments..

.
India will be exposed as an expansionist country illegally occupying Kashmir which would be a moral victory of the Kashmiris in IoK and will come handy if they are to revolt amd undertake armed attepts to liberate themselves from India.

 

[Neo]

Cremia people fought the illegal accession of 1954 with Ukraine and won the case through a referendum on March 16.
If Kashmiris can prove that the document Hari Singh signed was forged, they have a good precedent in Cremia.

 

[Bhadra]

Cremia people fought the illegal accession of 1954 with Ukraine and won the case through a referendum on March 16.
If Kashmiris can prove that the document Hari Singh signed was forged, they have a good precedent in Cremia.

Are you entertaining the forum ? The same applies to you ...!

Cremia has a different history right from middle ages and Austro Hungarin Empires times. Much before that there will be referendum in Khaiber Pakhtunkhaw and Baluchistan to join Afghanistan, Iran or India. There would be a referendum in Northern Ares and POK....

The results would be amazing ... do not fall into that trap..

 

[Neo]

No actually I am the one being entertained here

KPK, Balochistan and FATA are integral autonomous parts of Pakistan. Afghan claim on Durand Line officially expired in 1997 so the only desputued territory is Kashmir. We are not against an independant Kashmir, you are! So India has everything to lose here.

 

[Neo]

Have a referdum in Kashmir....results will indeed be very interesting.

 

[thethinker]

Trend for insurgencies is actually diminishing, sorry that it may come as a disappointment for some. After the elections, there will be much more interesting developments on this front.


India Assessment 2013

For the first time since 1994, the year 2012 registered a total number of terrorism and insurgency linked fatalities across India in the three digits – at 804, as against 1,073 in 2011 and a peak of 5,839 in 2001. The trend of sustained decline in such fatalities has been near-unbroken since 2001 (with a marginal reversal in 2008), giving tremendous relief to theatres of persistent violence. The most prominent among these is Jammu and Kashmir (J&K), which has been wracked by a Pakistan-backed Islamist terrorist movement since 1988, with a resultant total of 43,439 fatalities (till March 10, 2013). J&K recorded 117 fatalities in 2012, down from 183 in 2011; and a peak of 4,507 in 2001.

Pakistan-backed Islamist terrorist attacks outside J&K also registered a remarkable drop, with just one incident – a low intensity blast in Pune (Maharashtra) on August 1, with no fatalities – recorded through 2012. Forty two such fatalities had occurred in four incidents in 2011, , and a recent peak of 364 killed in seven incidents in 2008.

 

[Neo]

But the Taliban have already set foot in India. Give them a little time.

 

[thethinker]

But the Taliban have already set foot in India. Give them a little time.

There is lots of time, don't worry about that.

 

[ubuntu]

But the Taliban have already set foot in India. Give them a little time.

This attitude is the reason pakistan is beggerista.