Pak-Russia talks on delivery of Su-35, Mi-35s underway: Russian Deputy FM

[punjab47]

^ Kya bhai sahab aapne to hava nikal diya saare maze ka.

Did you not see how this one thing had brought so many people out into the open. The 3 Pakis, 2/3 Western fanboys. We were all having fun.

hat.

The fact that Russians are choosing to negotiate in this manner also implies that they too think that their Indian collaborations are important.

Sales or even some inny-miny-tiny chances of collaborations with Pakis are a strategic dead end. Photochor will sell it in black market.

The only country that Russians can truly collaborate with for long term security is China &/or India.

. Either Russians have to really ratchet up the collaboration speed on various existing/possible projects or they have to be ready for a day when India will decide to move on. presence is reducing in the Chinese projects.

Thing is, beside a nuclear umbrella at some point what does russia have to offer?

As it's been shown between 4+ & 4++ 4-5x rcs reduction is possible i.e 20-30m2 vs 5-6 on su-35.

Much of which is probably due to radar absorbent material, implying higher running cost but w.e still cheaper than new planes.

American claims of f-22 0.001 are bogus a that's specific side at specific small angle it's basically 0.1-0.3 m2 for all stealth fighters with the Turkish one being on high side, other 0.2 or below.

--
Russians have armata tank which is really unmanned turret & crew capsule due to ammo being separated via autoloader.

So nothing that major, & eu has taken notice & will catch up. Due to 3.5-5x pop & 5-9x economy.
--
For defensive minded countries like India & China simple fact is, 5th gen can pass & they won't notice it.

Russia has decent interceptor/air superiority aircraft, best air defense systems, good assault helos, & until we decide to get serious they have decent tanks.

Aircraft is a given we should be inducting su-35 & mig-31 annually instead of watching Tejas, Kaveri & rafale soap opera.

Using money saved for Tejas amca Kaveri.

--
Air defence we need but we could sit out 5th gen & focus on drones which is probably where our interest in t-50 comes from.

F-22 has 25mhz cpu it is not advanced anymore.

 

[punjab47]

It's debatable whether dozens of lch vs single mi-35 even though it goes fast & carries lots of munitions.

We have t-72 & 90 in numbers & beyond few 100 armata, arjun mk2 & fmbt or w.e is future.

At some point they realize that beyond next 5-10years we don't really need them. Where they would be useful in developing

Long range standoff weapons they are banned by treaty from taking BrahMos past 300km.

So really it's like we're on our own, we're a great power & that's how it is.

W europe will fracture again & e Europe will come to some sort of understanding with Russia.

Drones will fight in the sky, & there'll probably be a lot of ethnic cleansing & water wars 15-25 years from now.

I don't think we should b that worried about China. If we stay at even half this pace, they can only bother us for another 10 years.

Restoring Sanskrit Education System, Indigenous software & hardware, & demographic issue is all focus needs to be for 50-75 years I think.

Nothing more, we sit on a strategic peninsula

We can be a bit behind tech, & just 'zerg' anyone who tries to establish beach landing anyway.

Even though as excalibur shows we are ahead.

Look at us soldiers familiarizing with 1b1
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipe..._2015_Soldiers_familiarize_with_INSAS_1B1.jpg

That is what jealousy looks like.

 

[asingh10]

Further proof that no Abrahamics can be our friends, temporary allies yes, whether Jews or Orthodox Russian Christians, many Hindus get emotional. Too many fanboys and cheerleaders in the "right wing".

India should call off the FGFA deal and focus the efforts on improvising Tejas & perhaps work with Japan on the Mitsubishi 5th gen fighter they are building.

 

[tarunraju]

Further proof that no Abrahamics can be our friends, temporary allies yes, whether Jews or Orthodox Russian Christians, many Hindus get emotional. Too many fanboys and cheerleaders in the "right wing".

India should call off the FGFA deal and focus the efforts on improvising Tejas & perhaps work with Japan on the Mitsubishi 5th gen fighter they are building.

Japs (with their Westinghouse holdings) are a thorn in our civil nuclear programme. You think they'll share 5th gen fighter tech with us? Not gonna happen. In their game of risk against China/Russia, the US is their ally, India is distant.

 

[Varahamihira]

Further proof that no Abrahamics can be our friends, temporary allies yes, whether Jews or Orthodox Russian Christians, many Hindus get emotional. Too many fanboys and cheerleaders in the "right wing".

India should call off the FGFA deal and focus the efforts on improvising Tejas & perhaps work with Japan on the Mitsubishi 5th gen fighter they are building.

Never close your options when it comes Geo-Politics.Be a pakka bania(not a casteist remark,it's in pure business sense) when it comes to dealing with other countries especially with countries having high military grade technology.Get whatever tech possible from them and keep relationship intact.

 

[Yumdoot]

Thing is, beside a nuclear umbrella at some point what does russia have to offer?

@Punjab 47, looks like you have been busy with too much India-allignment issues.

There are mutiple ways India can deal with the weapons sourcing and related strategic and economic decision? And there is absolutely no need to align with anybody.

But tell me something why would we need a nuclear umbrella from anybody. Russians are never going to provide the nuclear umbrella for us and we don't need it. The whole concept is applicable to smaller countries that don't need to have independent policies, except in niche areas.

For defensive minded countries like India & China simple fact is, 5th gen can pass & they won't notice it.

--
Air defence we need but we could sit out 5th gen & focus on drones which is probably where our interest in t-50 comes from.

I would like to differ on this. Knowledge development are a continuous affair. Knowledge building is a karmic matter. More you do it more it benefits you. Your job is to start the cycle, keep it going and let it take its full natural course.

But we have to get out of the presumption that Westerners are doing S&T while others are dumbos.

F-22 has 25mhz cpu it is not advanced anymore.

So what? Does it do its job well or is there a problem. If its doing its job well then it is good enough to be kept on that machine.

Only point I am going to worry about that computer on that machine would be when the ends fail to justify the means (time & cost) of reaching those ends. At that point I will either change the Computer or the Machine.

 

[punjab47]

What I mean by f22 25mhz is it is outdated now.

It's not about alignment it's about facts, look at history.

Usa only wants to shore up christianity in south to attack north.

Russia doesn't want us in Baltistan & China wants us out of Tibet.

Now which of these territories do we currently have?

Which of two we don't would be easiest to recover.

That's how you ally,

1. Russia
2. China
3.Usa

Yeah if they offer tech, take it but keep usa at arm length remember kissinger quote

To be enemy of America is dangerous, to be friend is fatal.

 

[Nicky G]

Not certain on initial source as got it from another forum, but very interesting points:

Prasun K sengupta view on Pak Russia Su35 murmurs and relationship

• Why is everyone going into a tizzy about the Su-35? Instead, the following need to be considered:
  • Was the PAF’s CAS invited to see the Su-35 during the MAKS 2015 expo last month? No.
  • Did a senior PAF delegation visit MAKS 2015? No. Have the Russians sent a Su-35 to Pakistan for in-country demonstration flights? No.
  • Has the PA inked any contract with Russia to procure the four Mi-35Ms? No.
  • Will China & the US who are helping Pakistan survive financially ever allow Pakistan to procure major weapons platforms from Russia? Never. Between the AH-1Z Viper, ZW-10 & Mi-35M, which one will the PA prefer? Definitely the AH-1Z.
• Now to why the Ruskies warmed up to the PA’s COAS a few months back. The reason was the PA during Op Zarb-e-Azb eliminated plenty of ragheads from Chechnya & Uzbekistan who were sworn enemies of Russia in the north Caucasus, & since the PA will be preoccupied with such low-intensity conflicts for the next 10 years at the very least, the PA requires more Mi-171s plus more product-support for these helicopters.
• And that’s exactly what Russia will end up selling to the PA. Nothing else.
• In addition, the Ruskies will most probably supply a RD-93 turbofan NRO facility that will be cited in Kamra.
• Furthermore, since the PAF can no longer bank on Ukraine for supporting its four IL-78MKPs, it will have to approach Moscow for MRO support
• The same goes for the spare 125mm main gun barrels for the PA’s T-80UD MBTs.
• So let’s bury the ghost of Su-35s destined for Pakistan once & for all. In fact, the same can be said even for China, especially after Beijing blatantly embarrassed Moscow by including Chinese clones like the J-11B & J-15 in the September 3 flypast.
• Russia is now asking for an enormous amount of liquidated damages from China for cloning the Su-27/Su-30 families, for cloning the S-300P & for cloning all the naval radars I’ve mentioned above.
• Russia also wants China to promise that none of these cloned items will ever be exported. If ever China starts exporting these items, especially the cloned & cheaper J-11s & J-15s & J-16s, it result in Russia being ousted for good from the global weapons export market.
• So, for all intents & purposes, the Su-35s are no longer on offer to China as well

 

[salute]

Our economy is improving really fast doing better than yours

are you on weeds,

:bs:well everywhere I am reading its more than 20 personnel.
http://dunyanews.tv/en/Pakistan/299661-Peshawar-Badaber-attack-29-personnel-martyred-13

bangladeshi economy is better than pakis .

 

[maomao]

are you on weeds,


bangladeshi economy is better than pakis .

pakis are shameless compulsive liars. They will lie to each other and then go home believing their own lies as truth!

It's funny scenario where only pakis believe that pakis are lords of the worlds, because they are 'islami atami takat' more powerful than the US and can make US pay heavily before exiting from AFG completely. Seriously, make US pay a big price?? And yes they are the richest state in the world, however they remain poor due to RAW, MOssad, CIA operatives in their country.....damn the large scale micro chip implants !!

 

[pmaitra]

Thread closed as the news turned out to be speculative.

Continue here: http://defenceforumindia.com/forum/...sion-talks-plan-happened-with-pakistan.71300/