Pak is Russia's 'most important' partner in South Asia: Putin

[ace009]

India has lost most of the wars its fought, Why then did Pakistan capture 80,000 square KM of Kashmir in 1948 which India has been trying to get back for the past half century? An area larger than the European country of Austria, 1965 was offically a stalemate and India's great friend Russia played the mediator in Tashkent, India won only the 1971 war and that too because the Bengali people did all the work for 9 long months. The West Pakistanis were 1000 miles away from their base and were heavily outnumbered by Mukhti Bahini and Indian military, There were bound to loose. I dont regard Kargil or Siachen as wars because they are limited conflicts. If India wants to claim victory it can only do so in the 71 war and that too thanks to Bengali Mukhti Bahini.

Dude - I am not sure where you get your "news and views" from. Sounds like you are a Bangladeshi, fed a diet of how Hindu India could not stand up against the great Muslim onslought of Pakistan.

Here's some perspective about the 1948, 1965 and 1971 India-Pakistan wars

1.

The 1947–48 War

The first Indo-Pakistani war started after armed tribesmen from Pakistan's north-west frontier province invaded Kashmir in October 1947. Besieged both by a revolt in his state and by the invasion, the Maharaja requested armed assistance from the government of India. In return he acceded to India, handing over powers of defence, communication and foreign affairs.

Both India and Pakistan agreed that the accession would be confirmed by a referendum once hostilities had ceased.

Historians continue to debate the precise timing when the Maharaja of Jammu and Kashmir signed the instrument of accession and the Indian army moved into the state, arguing that the Maharaja acceded to India under duress.

In May 1948, the regular Pakistani army was called upon to protect Pakistan's borders. Fighting continued throughout the year between Pakistani irregular troops and the Indian army.

The war ended on 1 January 1949 when a ceasefire was arranged by the United Nations, which recommended that both India and Pakistan should adhere to their commitment to hold a referendum in the state. A ceasefire line was established where the two sides stopped fighting and a UN peacekeeping force established. The referendum, however, has never been held.

In 1954 Jammu and Kashmir's accession to India was ratified by the state's constituent assembly. In 1957, it approved its own constitution, modelled along the Indian constitution. Since that time India has regarded that part of the state which it controls as an integral part of the Indian union.

To the west of the ceasefire line, Pakistan controls roughly one third of the state. A small region, which the Pakistanis call Azad (Free) Jammu and Kashmir, and the Indians call Pakistani-occupied Kashmir, is semi-autonomous. The larger area, which includes the former kingdoms of Hunza and Nagar, called the northern areas, is directly administered by Pakistan.

In 1962-3, following the 1962 Sino-Indian war, India and Pakistan held talks under the auspices of Britain and the US in an attempt to resolve their differences over Kashmir, but without success.

1965 War

In April 1965, a clash between border patrols erupted into fighting in the Rann of Kutch, a sparsely inhabited region along the south-western Indo-Pakistani border. When the Indians withdrew, Pakistan claimed victory.

Later, in August, hostilities broke out again in the 2nd Indo-Pakistani war, when the government of Pakistan launched a covert offensive across the ceasefire line into the Indian-administered Jammu and Kashmir. In early September, India retaliated by crossing the international border at Lahore. After three weeks, both India and Pakistan agreed to a UN-sponsored ceasefire.

In January 1966, the governments of India and Pakistan met at Tashkent and signed a declaration affirming their commitment to solve their disputes through peaceful means. They also agreed to withdraw to their pre-August positions.

1971 War
Indo-Pakistani relations deteriorated again when civil war erupted in Pakistan, pitting the West Pakistan army against East Pakistanis demanding autonomy and later independence.

The fighting forced an estimated 10 million East Pakistani civilians to flee to India.

In December India invaded East Pakistan in support of the East Pakistani people. The Pakistani army surrendered at Dhaka and its army of more than 90,000 became Indian prisoners of war.

East Pakistan became the independent country of Bangladesh on 6 December 1971.

Regional tensions were reduced by the Simla accord of 1972 and by Pakistan's recognition of Bangladesh in 1974. The Simla accord committed both sides to working through outstanding issues bilaterally and through the mechanism of working groups.

In relation to Jammu and Kashmir, the two countries agreed that the ceasefire line, which was renamed the Line of Control, would be respected by both sides "without prejudice to the recognised positions of either side".

In 1974 the Kashmir state government reached an accord with the Indian Government, which affirmed its status as "a constituent unit of the union of India". Pakistan rejected the accord.

BBC NEWS | India Pakistan | Timeline

it's the BBC, so much more "balanced".

According to western scholars and military analysts, Pakistan did "NOT WIN" a single war with India, although they had early gains because they were the aggressors each and every time. When you launch attacks against your neighbor without declaration of war, you are bound to gain some territory.
In 1948, Kashmir was not even a part of India when Pakistan rolled into Kashmir. Once India got involved, Pakistan was pushed back from the Kashmir valley and the only reason it retained the Northern region was that the newly formed Indian Army did not have enough Officers and Army planners for a prolonged campaign, since the British Officers were prohibited by Britain from taking part in the conflict. So, Although Pakistan lost a third of the territory they had captured initially, by the time the cease-fire happened, they could keep the other 2/3 rds of it.

In 1965, India captured 4 times more territory than Pakistan and was gracious enough to trade most of it with Pakistan. For an aggressor nation like Pakistan, who gained nothing, lost half of their Armor and a quarter of it's Airforce, it IS defeat, just as surely it is a victory for a country like India.

Indo-Pakistan War of 1965

As for 1971, If Indian Army had not invaded East pakistan, Bangladesh would be speaking Urdu and Dhaka will be filled with Pathans by now. Your claims of "all the work was done by the Bangladeshis" - here are the stats ...

"Bangladesh Liberation war" took place from March 26, 1971 and ended on December 16, 1971
From March 26 to December 2, 1971,

Bangladeshi Mukti Bahini losses - >25,000
Pakistani Army losses - ~1000

India joined the war from December 3rd -

Mukti Bahini Losses - ~5000
Indian Army Losses - ~1500
Pakistani Army losses - ~8000
POWs ~90,000.

See something? If India had not joined in, Bangladeshi Mukti Bahini would NOT HAVE succeeded. So, "Thanks to Mukti Bahini"? I would say Bangladesh should be FOREVER appreciate the fact that India stepped in and liberated Bangladesh from the blood thirsty Pakis.

As for Geo-Politics changes - Russia befriending Pakistan is a shot in the Arm for Pakistan and should be taken VERY seriously by India - just ban a couple of Russian Arms companies and cancel a few impending deals - let's see how important "Geo-Politics" is ...

 

[Pathogen]

Either way even if Russia does not sell weapons to Pakistan (It most certainly will) if India buys weapons from the US, Then its not a big problem because neither Pakistan already has alot of Russian equipment nor does Russia produce much more than is not already available from China.

What you are suggesting is that India walk a diplomatic tightrope between US and Russia, If you think India call pull it off my hat goes off to Indias leaders, Just dont be shocked if Russia starts selling weapons to Pakistan if India does not buy 90% of its weapons from Russia.

 

[Blackwater]

How did the US abuse them? The relationship has always been mutual, Pakis provide cooperation to the US and the US provide material and deplomatic cover to Pakis (for a long time). IIn fact if the realtionship was all about money transfers, the US without doubt gave more money to the other one without doubt. The problem with Pakis is that they don't know how to take advantage of the opportunities before them. Believe me, whoever you put on Pakis side, the Americans, Russians, Chinese, Marsians, the Pakis will still find ways to disappoint themselves.

For me and for 90% of the world thinks, pakistan is like prostitute and prostitute are always abused lollllllllllllllllllllllll

 

[Pathogen]

End of the India - Pakistan war talk.

We can not go by what Indians think or what someone think but what actually did happen, Pakistan got 80,000 sq km of Kashmir in 1948 that it holds to this day, There is a document called the "Tashkent Declaration" for 1965, And Bengalis did all the work in 1971 war.

Im not going to waste time debating established facts.

 

[Blackwater]

Russia announces $500m grant for Pakistan Steel Mills

November 9, 2011

Russia has announced a grant of $500 million for the restoration of Pakistan Steel Mills, which it had helped establish in Karachi 30 years back.

Federal Secretary for Industries and Production Javed Awan told Express News that the announcement was made when Prime Minister Yousaf Raza Gilani met his Russian counterpart Vladimir Putin on the sidelines of the 10th Heads of Government meeting of the SCO.

The money will be spent on the expansion and repair of machinery at Pakistam Steel Mills.

Production capacity of PSM is expected to increase from 1.1 million tons to 1.5 million tons per annum.

Earlier, Putin had offered Russia's assistance for the enhancement of the production capacity of the Pakistan Steel Mills by increasing its production from the current one million tonnes to three million tonnes.

He also offered coal gasification technology for the Thar coal and upgradation of the Guddu and Muzaffargarh power plants to increase power generation capacity to help meet country's growing energy needs.

Russia announces $500m grant for Pakistan Steel Mills – The Express Tribune

Russia can and will not forget the role of pakis in afgan war. By investing in pak they want to infiltrate and control their major industry so they can dictate there terms. I think its part of great game..

 

[sukhish]

Pak is Russia's 'most important' partner in South Asia: Putin


Moscow: Pakistan is Russia's "most important" partner in South Asia and in the Islamic world, Prime Minister Vladimir Putin said Monday during a meeting with his Pakistani counterpart in St Petersburg.


"Pakistan today is not an important trade and economic partner of Russia, but also most important Russian partner in South Asia and in the Islamic world," Putin was quoted as saying at his meeting with Pakistani Prime Minister Yusuf Raza Gilani.

The two met on the sidelines of the Shanghai Cooperation Organisation (SCO) prime-ministerial meet in St Petersburg, ITAR-TASS reported.


Welcoming Gilani, Putin said he was happy to see him in Russia and his hometown St Petersburg, though he had met him earlier in other countries.


He also confirmed Moscow's readiness to invest $500 million on the CASA-1000 electric transmission line to supply Pakistan with the Central Asian power from Tajikistan and Kyrgyzstan.


With deterioration of Islamabad's ties with Washington, Moscow is seeking a closer relationship with India's arch-rival with the blessing of China — Pakistan's "all-weather" friend.


This Russian shift in South Asia policy where India had always been Moscow's main partner is reflection of apprehensions over New Delhi-Washington relationship turning into a military-political alliance to block Russia and China's interests in the region.


Moscow also believes that the key to the stability in Russia's soft belly — Central Asia — is ties with Islamabad, which has the potential of creating mischief along and inside the borders of the former Russian empire.


PTI


Pak is Russia's 'most important' partner in South Asia: Putin | Firstpost

Putin did not say it's the most important partner, he just said that it's in important partner ( not the most ), this paper has a wrong quote.
looks at dawn.com and you will find out. there is nothing he said which would offend us.

 

[Pintu]

Russia endorses full SCO membership for Pakistan | World | DAWN.COM

Russia endorses full SCO membership for Pakistan
APP
November 7, 2011 (4 days ago)

Russia's Prime Minister Vladimir Putin, right, and Pakistani Prime Minister Gilani speak during the meeting of the Shanghai cooperation Organization dominated by Moscow and Beijing in St.Petersburg, Russia. -AP Photo

ST. PETERSBURG: Russia on Monday, for the first time, publicly endorsed Pakistan's bid to get full membership of the Shanghai Cooperation Organization (SCO).

Russian Prime Minister Vladimir Putin made this announcement in response to Prime Minister Syed Yusuf Raza Gilani's address at the 10th Heads of Government meeting of SCO, at the Constantine Palace.

The Russian Premier also supported Prime Minister Gilani's proposals for implementing trade and energy projects.

He announced financing 0.5 billion US dollars for the CASA- 1000 that would ensure power transmission from Turkmenistan Tajikistan and Kyrgyzstan to Pakistan and Afghanistan.

Putin said in practical and tangible terms, Russia wants materialization of projects including TAPI (Turkmenistan- Afghanistan-Pakistan-India) gas pipeline project and the Central Asia South Asia Electricity Trade and Transmission Project (CASA 1000).

Later, the two leaders held bilateral meeting and discussed several important issues including fight against terrorism and extremism, besides calling for the need to adopt regional approach towards dealing with major challenges.

Russian Premier Putin termed his meeting with Prime Minister Gilani "very pleasant" and expressed satisfaction over bilateral and trade ties between the two countries.

"Pakistan is important for us in trade and economy and it is an important partner in South Asia and in Islamic world," he told Prime Minister Gilani.

Putin offered Russia's assistance in expansion of Pakistan Steel Mills and provision of technical support for the Guddu and Muzaffargarh power plants.

He said Russia could facilitate Pakistan in the execution of Thar Coal Project.

Gilani said this was his fourth meeting with Prime Minister Putin. He mentioned that he joined other leaders at the SCO forum despite the occasion of Eid, because of the importance of the forum and also of Pakistan's commitment to the regional issues.

He appreciated Russia's support for mega projects including CASA 1000.

Putin supported Pakistan's stance on war on terror and agreed to pursue the policy of counter-terrorism for ensuring regional peace.

The two Prime Ministers agreed that collective regional efforts were required to eliminate terrorism from the region to usher in peace and stability, and re-direct all energies towards economic interaction among the members of SCO.

 

[ace009]

Either way even if Russia does not sell weapons to Pakistan (It most certainly will) if India buys weapons from the US, Then its not a big problem because neither Pakistan already has alot of Russian equipment nor does Russia produce much more than is not already available from China.

What you are suggesting is that India walk a diplomatic tightrope between US and Russia, If you think India call pull it off my hat goes off to Indias leaders, Just dont be shocked if Russia starts selling weapons to Pakistan if India does not buy 90% of its weapons from Russia.

What I am suggesting is India put it's foot down and show the world what it's wallet power means. WALLET POWER - the biggest and baddest ass-kicking power in the world. The Power based on which Britain ruled a quarter of the world in the early 1900s, the power by which USA ruled a quarter of the world in the late 1900s (and more than that now). The Power by which UK, France, Japan and Germany have built up their importance in the world. The Power by which China plans to rule the world later on in this century.
Remember, it's not guns or bombs but money that rules the world. Money can buy the guns and bombs FAR MORE EASILY than guns and bombs can grab money - the Soviets learnt it the hard way as did the Nazi Germans and the Imperial Japanese.

Now, admittedly, India with only a $1.2 Trillion economy - but it is not just the CURRENT economy that matters, but the future projected economy. Which is why, at about the same level, Indian economy has more power than the Japanese Economy, because India is growing and Japan is shrinking.

I know I should not crow about it, as I have pointed this out several times to my countrymen, and India has a LONG WAY to grow - another 20-25 years before we can really match the western powers.
But that does not mean that we should not flex our muscles even a little. The message is simple - whether to Russia or USA or France or Britain - you want our money, you play by our rules. And the rules are simple - you cannot sell to Pakistan or China anything that can threaten India. Just one simple rule and that's it.
If India cannot assert itself by this one simple rule - then what's the point in all the chest thumping and all the self aggrandizing?

So, India does not have to walk any tight ropes, do any balancing acts, keep anybody happy - just display our wallet and lay down that one rule - Our money or their money.

I am pretty sure Pakistan would not be a much of a choice - China might well be - but then China has it's own weaknesses - technology rights and stealing is a major one that can help swing it India's way.

 

[ace009]

Russia endorses full SCO membership for Pakistan | World | DAWN.COM

Russia endorses full SCO membership for Pakistan
APP
November 7, 2011 (4 days ago)

Russia's Prime Minister Vladimir Putin, right, and Pakistani Prime Minister Gilani speak during the meeting of the Shanghai cooperation Organization dominated by Moscow and Beijing in St.Petersburg, Russia. -AP Photo

ST. PETERSBURG: Russia on Monday, for the first time, publicly endorsed Pakistan's bid to get full membership of the Shanghai Cooperation Organization (SCO).

Russian Prime Minister Vladimir Putin made this announcement in response to Prime Minister Syed Yusuf Raza Gilani's address at the 10th Heads of Government meeting of SCO, at the Constantine Palace.

The Russian Premier also supported Prime Minister Gilani's proposals for implementing trade and energy projects.

He announced financing 0.5 billion US dollars for the CASA- 1000 that would ensure power transmission from Turkmenistan Tajikistan and Kyrgyzstan to Pakistan and Afghanistan.

Putin said in practical and tangible terms, Russia wants materialization of projects including TAPI (Turkmenistan- Afghanistan-Pakistan-India) gas pipeline project and the Central Asia South Asia Electricity Trade and Transmission Project (CASA 1000).

Later, the two leaders held bilateral meeting and discussed several important issues including fight against terrorism and extremism, besides calling for the need to adopt regional approach towards dealing with major challenges.

Russian Premier Putin termed his meeting with Prime Minister Gilani "very pleasant" and expressed satisfaction over bilateral and trade ties between the two countries.

"Pakistan is important for us in trade and economy and it is an important partner in South Asia and in Islamic world," he told Prime Minister Gilani.

Putin offered Russia's assistance in expansion of Pakistan Steel Mills and provision of technical support for the Guddu and Muzaffargarh power plants.

He said Russia could facilitate Pakistan in the execution of Thar Coal Project.

Gilani said this was his fourth meeting with Prime Minister Putin. He mentioned that he joined other leaders at the SCO forum despite the occasion of Eid, because of the importance of the forum and also of Pakistan's commitment to the regional issues.

He appreciated Russia's support for mega projects including CASA 1000.

Putin supported Pakistan's stance on war on terror and agreed to pursue the policy of counter-terrorism for ensuring regional peace.

The two Prime Ministers agreed that collective regional efforts were required to eliminate terrorism from the region to usher in peace and stability, and re-direct all energies towards economic interaction among the members of SCO.

That's it! Putin's ass should be handed to him by India - ban a few Russian companies - cancel a few deals and see what happens.

 

[Dovah]

End of the India - Pakistan war talk.

We can not go by what Indians think or what someone think but what actually did happen, Pakistan got 80,000 sq km of Kashmir in 1948 that it holds to this day, There is a document called the "Tashkent Declaration" for 1965, And Bengalis did all the work in 1971 war.

Im not going to waste time debating established facts.

LOL @ established facts.

 

[Dovah]

Either way even if Russia does not sell weapons to Pakistan (It most certainly will) if India buys weapons from the US, Then its not a big problem because neither Pakistan already has alot of Russian equipment nor does Russia produce much more than is not already available from China.

What you are suggesting is that India walk a diplomatic tightrope between US and Russia, If you think India call pull it off my hat goes off to Indias leaders, Just dont be shocked if Russia starts selling weapons to Pakistan if India does not buy 90% of its weapons from Russia.

Oh, let me break it down for you...

Russia S-E-L-L-S.
Pakistan B-E-G-S

If India doesn't buy their weapons they'll just start giving us better deals instead of throwing away their stuff at beggars and failed states.

 

[SPIEZ]

Oh, let me break it down for you...

Russia S-E-L-L-S.
Pakistan B-E-G-S

If India doesn't buy their weapons they'll just start giving us better deals instead of throwing away their stuff at beggars and failed states.

Russia S-E-L-L-S.
Pakistan B-E-G-S

 

[ace009]

LOL @ established facts.

I think I recognise him now - he is a Pro-Pakistani Bangladeshi.

His "established facts" are what he has learnt in the history books of Bangladesh Madrasas ...

Bangla Mukti bahini defeated Pakistan is about as "true" as the Free French liberated France ... (sorry Armand) ...

 

[Zebra]

Russia's Quiet Rapprochement with Pakistan

June 6, 2012 03:18 PM Age: 15 hrs
By: Stephen Blank

http://www.jamestown.org/single/?no_cache=1&tx_ttnews[tt_news]=39462&tx_ttnews[backPid]=7&cHash=428068a50526d4c8de006aedda11614e

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Russia is moving towards China and Pakistan as India is getting more influenced by US..

 

[amitkriit]

Russia is moving towards China and Pakistan as India is getting more influenced by US..

India doesn't need to lick Russian boots and India is not a Russian agent in the Indian Ocean. It will be extremely risky for Russia to leave India, we are a proud nation we don't need any other country's favour, we can survive on our own strength.

 

[Patriot]

In the wake of the tension between America & Pakistan, seems like Russians are planning get some kind of foot hold in Afghanistan by booing the Pakis.

This just seems to be a bait only & guess who's neck is on blade.

 

[Shredder]

In the wake of the tension between America & Pakistan, seems like Russians are planning get some kind of foot hold in Afghanistan by booing the Pakis.

This just seems to be a bait only & guess who's neck is on blade.

You mean wooing right ?

 

[Kunal Biswas]

India doesn't need to lick Russian boots and India is not a Russian agent in the Indian Ocean. It will be extremely risky for Russia to leave India, we are a proud nation we don't need any other country's favour, we can survive on our own strength.

Its not about IOR, Its about losing a strong ally to someone who consider us there arch enemy, I don't believe that there is any military connection to these all but something Russia is not liking about India, It may be growing relation with US or something more..