Pak "hope" for Russia's support in overcoming energy crisis

[ladder]

Re: Pakis "hope" for Russia's support in overcoming energy crisis

Trade with India is not possible unless we both move away from the Kashmir/terrorism rhetoric and neutralise bilateral trade. We link everything to Kashmir and you link everything to alledged terrorim in India.

There is no we, I mean India. Which year India granted you MFN? Probably before few teenage Pakistani commenting on these things were born.

We weren't the country arguing against NDTA in WTC. But Pakistan was, and managed to get a waiver w.r.t India, because India didn't oppose.
We didn't do that with China.

So, it's not us but you who have to move away from stance to start bilateral ties.

Compare how many Pakistani businessmen visiting India and then check the reverse.

 

[Apollyon]

"hope" for support or loan ? Is there a typo in this article

 

[Neo]

Re: Pakis "hope" for Russia's support in overcoming energy crisis

There is no we, I mean India. Which year India granted you MFN? Probably before few teenage Pakistani commenting on these things were born.

We weren't the country arguing against NDTA in WTC. But Pakistan was, and managed to get a waiver w.r.t India, because India didn't oppose.
We didn't do that with China.

So, it's not us but you who have to move away from stance to start bilateral ties.

Compare how many Pakistani businessmen visiting India and then check the reverse.

Mistrust exists on.both sides amd.therefor both countries can be blamed for strangling the huge trade potential. Recent example is.the IPI pipeline. From Indian media to fora, everyone was against it and it was India who caused endless delays bedore finally quitting.the project.
The reason was not economic feasibility but the political bias which is not new to us. As a reward for our cooperation for WoT a two year quota free exports of Pakistani goods to EU amd USA was brokered by Washington. Guess which country cried out loud and.ran to WTO to.challenge the waiver.

Again late last year EU awarded Pakistan with GSP Plus status for two years with a sour Indian lobby in Strassbourg. Your government, specially the previous doesn't want to see us expand trade.

 

[ladder]

Re: Pakis "hope" for Russia's support in overcoming energy crisis

Mistrust exists on.both sides amd.therefor both countries can be blamed for strangling the huge trade potential. Recent example is.the IPI pipeline. From Indian media to fora, everyone was against it and it was India who caused endless delays bedore finally quitting.the project.
The reason was not economic feasibility but the political bias which is not new to us. As a reward for our cooperation for WoT a two year quota free exports of Pakistani goods to EU amd USA was brokered by Washington. Guess which country cried out loud and.ran to WTO to.challenge the waiver.

Again late last year EU awarded Pakistan with GSP Plus status for two years with a sour Indian lobby in Strassbourg. Your government, specially the previous doesn't want to see us expand trade.

I thought we were discussing bilateral trade.

But, if we are discussing multi-lateral trade, I can clear your doubts also.

But, you need to read up to what were India's reservations. Create a separate thread, I will contribute article.

Stating basically, what USA and EU had promised in it's original form was going against the spirit of 'WTC'. I can't simply give anyone 'discretionary' market access bypassing the rules, just because that country 'runs' errands for me.

As with my previous post, read about ' MFN' and Pakistan's role in WTO to know the details.

And that doesn't mean that we haven't used our clout, we have, but those instances will not be available in Pakistani media as referring to them would mean dragging the incompetence Pakistani establishment, which your press has been advised not to.

As, far as IPI is concerned, among other, we wanted guarantee against terrorist attack on it on Pakistani soil, therefore we said we would only pay for gas reaching us. Iran took responsibility upto exit of her soil. But, what did Pakistan guarantee? Zilch.

You might have heard the proverb 'no pain no gain' that applies to you.

In the end Iran is constructing a dozen of LNG vessels to deliver gas the world over. And we may end up getting Irani gas, while you remain dry.

The same for TAPI, without India TAPI will remain a closed 'tap'. So, it should be you who should be accommodating.

But, you conveniently, didn't mention US pressure and Saudi influence on IPI pipeline project. Very easy to put blame on India right?

 

[Neo]

Re: Pakis "hope" for Russia's support in overcoming energy crisis

I thought we were discussing bilateral trade.

But, if we are discussing multi-lateral trade, I can clear your doubts also.

But, you need to read up to what were India's reservations. Create a separate thread, I will contribute article.

Stating basically, what USA and EU had promised in it's original form was going against the spirit of 'WTC'. I can't simply give anyone 'discretionary' market access bypassing the rules, just because that country 'runs' errands for me.

As with my previous post, read about ' MFN' and Pakistan's role in WTO to know the details.

And that doesn't mean that we haven't used our clout, we have, but those instances will not be available in Pakistani media as referring to them would mean dragging the incompetence Pakistani establishment, which your press has been advised not to.

As, far as IPI is concerned, among other, we wanted guarantee against terrorist attack on it on Pakistani soil, therefore we said we would only pay for gas reaching us. Iran took responsibility upto exit of her soil. But, what did Pakistan guarantee? Zilch.

You might have heard the proverb 'no pain no gain' that applies to you.

In the end Iran is constructing a dozen of LNG vessels to deliver gas the world over. And we may end up getting Irani gas, while you remain dry.

The same for TAPI, without India TAPI will remain a closed 'tap'. So, it should be you who should be accommodating.

But, you conveniently, didn't mention US pressure and Saudi influence on IPI pipeline project. Very easy to put blame on India right?

Ignore the international trade indeed or we will.deviate from the topic. I referred to IPI to show you distrust from Indian side.
The.security concerns in Balochistan will trigger another heated.debate and we will continue to disagree.

 

[Neo]

Re: Pakis "hope" for Russia's support in overcoming energy crisis

W.r.t. your last remark, yes USA and KSA played an important role but initially that was not the case and India holding an import waiver like.China.and Japan would have made ISI viable if India has chosen to.support it.

 

[ladder]

Re: Pakis "hope" for Russia's support in overcoming energy crisis

Ignore the international trade indeed or we will.deviate from the topic. I referred to IPI to show you distrust from Indian side.
The.security concerns in Balochistan will trigger another heated.debate and we will continue to disagree.

Afraid of free trade | The Indian Express

It's about the topic we are discussing.

 

[Neo]

Re: Pakis "hope" for Russia's support in overcoming energy crisis

Afraid of free trade | The Indian Express

It's about the topic we are discussing.

Good read and a balanced article indeed. But MFN to India means unlimited transit in two ways and.this is the only trumpcard Pakistan holds against India whereas india holds the waters in Kashmir. We.give.MFN we.lose.leverage and India can still blackmail us with water.

So this is more of a geo-political issue than.an economic one.

 

[ladder]

Re: Pakis "hope" for Russia's support in overcoming energy crisis

Good read and a balanced article indeed. But MFN to India means unlimited transit in two ways and.this is the only trumpcard Pakistan holds against India whereas india holds the waters in Kashmir. We.give.MFN we.lose.leverage and India can still blackmail us with water.

So this is more of a geo-political issue than.an economic one.

Even that was addressed, to have limited trade balancing the trade deficit and gradually open it fully. But I don't know what happened to it.

The concessions given to Pakistan from India was also good.

I will try to dig up the article.

But, the whole idea was like, you buy Indian electronics/ electrical product via Dubai, now will through Wag-ah. And in turn we will guarantee you say 70-80% of the volume of trade to buy cement. Thus maintaining the trade deficit, which Pakistan worries about. Thus providing a tagging system which is mutually beneficial.

But, still that hasn't worked out. So, who is loosing more?

Pakistan pays 30% more for Indian electrical good, which are re-branded in ME.

 

[Neo]

Re: Pakis "hope" for Russia's support in overcoming energy crisis

Even that was addressed, to have limited trade balancing the trade deficit and gradually open it fully. But I don't know what happened to it.

The concessions given to Pakistan from India was also good.

I will try to dig up the article.

But, the whole idea was like, you buy Indian electronics/ electrical product via Dubai, now will through Wag-ah. And in turn we will guarantee you say 70-80% of the volume of trade to buy cement. Thus maintaining the trade deficit, which Pakistan worries about. Thus providing a tagging system which is mutually beneficial.

But, still that hasn't worked out. So, who is loosing more?

Pakistan pays 30% more for Indian electrical good, which are re-branded in ME.

With PML-N in power trade has a great chance to expand. Pakistan will welcome Indian FDI in energy sector more than anything. But also heavy industry, automobile sector and mining provide good business opportunities to Indian enterprises. Iys all fine but the concessions....two way transit is a no go. India wants it more than anything.

 

[ladder]

Re: Pakis "hope" for Russia's support in overcoming energy crisis

With PML-N in power trade has a great chance to expand. Pakistan will welcome Indian FDI in energy sector more than anything. But also heavy industry, automobile sector and mining provide good business opportunities to Indian enterprises. Iys all fine but the concessions....two way transit is a no go. India wants it more than anything.

If you will use 'trade' as a trump card against Kashmir.

Then it's you who is creating hindrance. And it's you only. Why blame India. ( As you did in your first comment on this topic)

 

[abhi_the _gr8_maratha]

when the blame toward pakistan is clearly visible ," both nations are responsible for it" is the only remark pakis give in every thread

 

[Neo]

Re: Pakis "hope" for Russia's support in overcoming energy crisis

If you will use 'trade' as a trump card against Kashmir.

Then it's you who is creating hindrance. And it's you only. Why blame India. ( As you did in your first comment on this topic)

Its the other way around, India is not willing to settle Kashmir and continues to blackmail us with water.

 

[ladder]

Re: Pakis "hope" for Russia's support in overcoming energy crisis

Its the other way around, India is not willing to settle Kashmir and continues to blackmail us with water.

There is no blackmail with water, Indus water tribunal was approached and it has said so. Put it here if Indus water tribunal has said that India has blocked Pakistani quota of water.

India wants to settle Kashmir. If you want to take Indian Kashmir, we also want to take back the PoJK. So give it and it will be settled in a minute. By not giving it, it's you who is creating hindrance to settlement of Kashmir dispute.

If you, want to make sweeping statement here, it will be met with the same. We don't cry Kashmir Kashmir every time we meet Jinnah's orphans doesn't mean our claim is any less.

Trade is what we want, to normalize trade and make it a CBM. But, if you want normalization before trade, we can't force us upon you. We will make World Bank do it for us.

Good Luck. Better walk into trade or you will be dragged into. WTO doesn't have Chinese veto attached. And waiver given by it is not for eternity.

The choice lies with you.

 

[Neo]

CBM's should.be equally provided and met with both xountries willing.to take step back. You bully us, you get the middle finger but if you're sincere we will walk an extra mile.

 

[ladder]

CBM's should.be equally provided and met with both xountries willing.to take step back. You bully us, you get the middle finger but if you're sincere we will walk an extra mile.

Don't show the middle finger, cause if the relationship between two countries becomes cold and frosty, your finger sadly, would have to be amputated due to frostbite due to the exposure to the cold and frosty relationship.

We, know how helpful you have been in normalizing ties. A genuine effort of January is replied in May, by walking the extra mile into this side of LoC.

Isn't it what you call walking the extra-mile?

 

[Blackwater]

Re: Pakis "hope" for Russia's support in overcoming energy crisis

Its the other way around, India is not willing to settle Kashmir and continues to blackmail us with water.

u lost case in international court. u cant do BS on this here

 

[Peter]

Re: Pakis "hope" for Russia's support in overcoming energy crisis

Its the other way around, India is not willing to settle Kashmir and continues to blackmail us with water.

This is the DFI joke and comment of the year. Continue your lying Neo sir.