Pak army repeats Kargil in Keran

Discussion in 'Indian Army' started by happy, Oct 2, 2013.

  1. happy

    happy Senior Member Senior Member

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    Letter found on infiltrator nails Pakistan hand in Keran stand-off

    A letter seized from a slain infiltrator in the Keran sector has exposed Pakistan’s involvement in the current stand-off on the Line of Control (LoC).

    The letter was written by Havaldar Mohommad Yousuf Chaudhary of 645 MD (Mujhaideen) regiment of Pakistan to his “brother Inayat” seeking help for his associate Farid Malik.

    “Hope you are in good mood. I have come to know that your letter has reached. I am sending this letter through Farid Malik. Please do whatever you could to help him out,” reads the translation of the letter written in Urdu.

    It was seized during one of the operations in the general area of Keran. Army officials say the 645 Mujahideen regiment of Pakistan is notorious for training and aiding militants in Jammu and Kashmir.

    “The letter clearly indicates that the Pakistan army is abetting and supporting the infiltrators. This proves Pakistan’s involvement beyond doubt. We are trying to verify whether the slain infiltrator from whom the letter was recovered was Chaudhary,” an army officer said.

    The letter was shwon th the media two days after Pakistan’s high commissioner to India Salman Bashir denied his country’s role in the infiltration in Keran sector of north Kashmir’s Kupwara district.

    The army has also recovered a Pakistani official identity card from another infiltrator. The identity cards are issued by the Pakistani government to all its citizens.

    If this was not enough, the arms, ammunitions, food items and medicines seized have exposed the Pakistan’s hand in the infiltration. For the first time, the Indian army has also seized AK 98 sub machine guns from the infiltrators. The portable gun is considered very lethal and it can be easily concealed. Besides, a sophisticated Tommy gun was also seized from the infiltrators.

    Besides, the army has found bullet proof vests on the bodies of the militants. “The bullet proof vests can easily be donned under the shirt. This is something which is quite surprising and worrying,” said an army officer.

    The seizures also included fruits, medicines, dry fruits, pickles and cigarettes which had clear Pakistani markings. “They had been manufactured in Pakistan. It also shows that the infiltrators were here for a long haul,” an officer said.

    Col Sanjay Mitra, Officiating Brigadier General Staff of 15 Corps, said they have seized seven more AK rifles, four pistols, 20 UBGL grenades and two radio sets. “It is in addition to the six AK 47 rifles, 10 pistols and five radios sets which as displayed on Sunday,” he said.


    Letter found on infiltrator nails Pakistan hand in Keran stand-off - India - DNA
     
  2. bennedose

    bennedose Senior Member Senior Member

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    The marks in one of the Pakis' bullet proof vest shows the accuracy and volume of fire laid down by the Indian army.

    But the US is leaving behind a lot of stuff like NVGs, radios and bulletproof vests - all of which are going to come into the hands of the Crapistanis.

    [​IMG]
     
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  3. Sridhar

    Sridhar House keeper Moderator

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  4. davidbenjamin

    davidbenjamin Regular Member

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    Looks like the operation "Tails down and run" by the elite dogs of Pakistan Army was successful.

    Wonder that 40 men could not even manage to kill even 1 of our troops. That speaks volumes of what our troops are capable of.
     
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  5. Ankit Purohit

    Ankit Purohit Senior Member Senior Member

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    Jai ho Indian army
     
  6. jmj_overlord

    jmj_overlord Regular Member

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    so all the pigs have been nailed..........hats off to Indian army. Wonder when we would see indian flag in crapistan ?
     
  7. Blackwater

    Blackwater Veteran Member Veteran Member

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    points of worry

    1) 30 -40 militants hold up 500+ IA for 15 days.

    2) barkha dutt when interviewed injured jawan revealed stomach bullet wounds, where they not wearing bullet proof vest or wearing sub-standard vests??

    3) 1 of the jawan revealed ,he has to fire blindly at night on militants,so,,still IA not using night vision goggles or provide night vision device to ghatak platoon??
     
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  8. Kunal Biswas

    Kunal Biswas Member of the Year 2011 Moderator

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    In Military :

    1. One MG post at height could hold a battalion ..

    2. Yes sub standard BP vest ..

    3. Only INSAS can have Thermal Sight and there are not many ..


    Equipment wise, India have everything but the basic Jawan dont get nothing as the Babus are busy making money out of best deals suited for them ..


     
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  9. SPIEZ

    SPIEZ Senior Member Senior Member

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    Could you please elaborate on the first point?
     
  10. Kunal Biswas

    Kunal Biswas Member of the Year 2011 Moderator

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    Some Pictures :

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  11. venkat

    venkat Regular Member

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    i am not seeing any pics...any reason?
     
  12. Kunal Biswas

    Kunal Biswas Member of the Year 2011 Moderator

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    An enemy concealed gun post at height ( Hill or mountain ) could do serious damage to many people below ..

    1. It hard to see and locate enemy dug in position and its harder when its concealed and even harder to make a direct attack.
    2. Its not worth attacking such position head on. Need a plan of attack.
    3. Its easy for enemy to monitor our movement, Hence everything need to be at minimum movement.

    So its takes time to eliminate such position. And i should also mention that there were no KIA or MIA in this massive operation.

     
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  13. jmj_overlord

    jmj_overlord Regular Member

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    KIA or MIA from indian army right ?
     
  14. davidbenjamin

    davidbenjamin Regular Member

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    For me it is important that we do no lose our men and also control our territory.

    It would have been great if we had killed all of them, but then since it was close to LoC, we could not round them up from all 4 directions.

    For them it is a disgrace, because a group of 40 mean can wreak havoc, but they ended up withdrawing.

    One question. Why don't we handover the deadbodies of militants to the Pakistani High Commission?
     
  15. Neil

    Neil Senior Member Senior Member

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    Keran operation ends; now it’s gunsmoke and unanswered questions

    Its finished: the fighting in the mountains around a ghost village the general said didn’t exist, against invisible enemies who’ve melted back across the Line of Control, leaving just a haze of smoke and questions hanging in the air. Earlier today, the Indian army announced that it was calling off the search for Pakistani intruders in the mountains around Shala Bhata, exhibiting weapons and combat equipment recovered during searches. There’s no word, though, on who the intruders were, why they came, and why it took so long to get them out. For the best part of ten years now, ensuring the Line of Control stayed peaceful was the keystone of the Prime Minister’s Pakistan policy — an objective maintained even the cost of absorbing body-blows, from 26/11 to the killing of Indian soldiers in cross-border raids. Representational image. Shahid Tantray/Firstpost In the mountains around Shala Bhata, the fighting has ended — but the policy is facing its moment of truth. No full account of just what happened at Shala Bhata has emerged in the week since Firstpost broke news of the intrusions.

    But intelligence and army sources have given some insights into the most serious fighting on the Line of Control in a decade. The fighting was sparked off, military sources say, when two observation positions on the Line of Control, code-named Khukri and Kullar, were briefly left unheld. Troops of the 3-3 Gurkha Regiment failed to replace their counterparts from the 20 Kumaon Regiment on time, for reasons that still aren’t clear. Troops who later headed towards the posts, which dominate Pakistan’s own forward positions around Shala Bhata, were then fired on by Pakistani positions from across the Line of Control.

    The army denies these posts are occupied by Pakistani troops — a claim which seems accurate. It has been equivocal, though, on the question of whether the positions were left unheld, and, if so, when they were reoccupied. Major-General Bobby Matthew, Additional Director-General for Public Information at Army Headquarters, did not respond to a text message seeking comment. Even as firing at Kullar and Khukri gathered momentum, meanwhile, Pakistan launched intrusions across the Line of Control, perhaps seeking to target Indian troops moving towards the Line of Control. XV corps commander Gurmit Singh had said on 27 September that drone imagery established that ten to twelve intruders had been killed by his troops.

    Their bodies, though, are no longer there, showing the cordon the 268 Brigade had thrown around Shala Bhata wasn’t able to choke off Pakistani resupply and evacuation lines. “Let’s assume it took just two men to carry away each of the twelve bodies”, a military officer says. “That means Pakistan was able to push at least 24 personnel across the Line of Control, and get their bodies back without Indian troops being able to retaliate or block their progress”.

    The 268 Brigade, as well as the adjoining 68 Brigade, began combing the mountains — but came up blank. Fresh infiltration efforts on the flanks of the Shala Bhata belt were blocked. Three terrorists were killed by the 17 Punjab regiment, some four kilometers away from Shala Bhata, and another two at Gujjardor. Four more by the 12 Garhwal along the Ratu Nar stream near Farkian. These bodies have been found — but the army’s claims of success elide over the fact they were killed outside the Shala Bhata cordon, in unconnected counter-infiltration operations Heat, but little light, has been shed by senior military commanders. In remarks to journalists on Tuesday, Lieutenant-General Singh described the Shala Bhata skirmish as a “desperate infiltration bid”, rather than an intrusion. He had earlier said, though, that Pakistani special forces personnel were involved. General Bikram Singh, the chief of army staff, insists the Shala Bhata intrusion wasn’t a serious military operation. He claims trained soldiers wouldn’t have occupied positions the mountain stream where ten of them were claimed killed. This, however, begs the question of why it took the army so long to clear the intrusion, and how the infiltrators escaped a cordon that was claimed to have closed in around them on all sides days ago. Line of Control incursions by jihadists don’t routinely involve crack Pakistani forces: faced with the army, they retreat, hoping for success the same time. Fire contact has been made, hoping for success the next time. This time, they stayed on to fight — and kept it up for days. “Holding territory across the Line of Control crosses thick, red line”, notes Chandigarh-based military analyst Mandeep Bajwa. “There is a plan underlying this”.

    The thick red line was drawn with the blood of Indian soldiers in Kargil — and its been a decade since it was last breached. In July, 2002, a Sikh Light Infantry patrol was ambushed near Point 3260 — a peak so-named for its height in metres —as it headed out to Loonda Post, an unheld position north of the ongoing fighting on the Line of Control. The then-commander of the 268 Brigade, sources familiar with decision-making at the time say, had warned of the post’s vulnerability. He’d been told, though, not to station troops on the feature: with the Line of Control not yet fenced, large-scale jihadist infiltration underway, and full-scale war looming, it wasn’t considered prudent to expend troops defending every vulnerable position. The XV corps responded with massive force to the Point 3260 intrusion, opening fire with FH-77B 155-millimeter howitzers on the intruders and the forces supporting them from across the Line of Control. In the face of a counter-bombardment which cost the lives of eleven soldiers from the Sikh Light Infantry and the Ladakh Scouts, Mi-17 helicopters flew in special forces. Finally, after a week of fighting, the Indian army asked for air support. Following an authorisation by Union Defence Minister George Fernandes, the 7 Squadron was tasked with destroying Pakistani fortifications. At 1.15 PM on August 2, eight Mirage 2000 jets, commanded by Wing-Commander Rajesh Kumar, arrived over Point 3260–and dropped four precision-guided bombs. Now, the red line drawn at Point 3260 has been erased at Shala Bhata. Burnt by Kargil, the National Democratic Alliance government was willing to risk war to make its point.

    Prime Minister Singh, Pakistan’s army knows, won’t reach for a howitzer if he can help it. From the time he took office, Prime Minister Singh has been persuaded that the costs of even a limited war will outweigh its likely benefits. Large-scale retaliation, his advisors argue, comes with unforseeable risks of escalation–unacceptable in a nuclear environment, and deeply damaging to the economy. It will, the argument goes, play into the hands of hawks in Pakistan’s army, rallying the country’s people behind them. It will allow the army to rebuild its fences with the jihadists it is now fighting in Pakistan’s north-west. To avoid these outcomes, they argue, its well worth India absorbing a few body-blows.

    Yet, doing nothing has ended up giving Pakistan’s army a free pass to ratchet up tensions–knowing there will be no price to pay. “India can’t decide whether the Pakistan army will choose war or peace”, says former Research and Analysis Wing chief Vikram Sood. “What we can do is make clear to them that the wrong decision will have serious costs they can’t afford”. “That’s the message we’re not sending”.

    Keran operation ends, gunsmoke and questions hanging in the air | Firstpost
     
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  16. happy

    happy Senior Member Senior Member

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    It may sound barbaric, but better to display the heads / corpses on posts along the loc. It will serve as a deterrent.
     
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  17. happy

    happy Senior Member Senior Member

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    Exactly why I said that this must be a pre-planned action by IA to give some target practice to our soldiers. And to that end, we have been highly successful given that there are 0 casualties on our side.
    @Kunal Biswas, @Ray, @Decklander @pmaitra, @sayareakd
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 10, 2015
  18. bennedose

    bennedose Senior Member Senior Member

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    I saw a silly statement in the media that asked why the operation lasted 15 days. This stupidity in the same genre as asking why 100 men may be needed to comb and flush out 4 terrorists. The public may not know, but the media have a responsibility to inform and unless they take the trouble to listen to what is being said they will not be able to inform. First you must not willy nilly risk the lives of our own boys by saying "Oh Only 4 terrorists. We will send 4 soldiers" Look at the terrain in the image below. How many of us would consider walking into that sort of undergrowth? If a Paki piglet hid there you could pass by 10 feet await fighting thorns and creepers and not see him.

    Even explosives would not be as effective in this terrain as in open ground. The vegetation would stop shrapnel from a grenade for example and bullets would get deflected. So how do you find and neutralize a man in such terrain?
    [​IMG]
     
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  19. sayareakd

    sayareakd Moderator Moderator

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    We have got Israeli thermal hand held imaging equipment, which are very expensive for this kind of things.
     
  20. Singh

    Singh Phat Cat Administrator

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    @bennedose

    If we had drones with SAR or other Optical/Thermal/IR equipment we could've have easily spotted them. Something like a Predator would've even taken them out via hellfire missiles.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 10, 2015
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