P Sundarajan is new Google CEO

[Mad Indian]

@Rowdy Dude, you got to be more precise next time. Anyway, certification/skills/education are all related only to slight degree in assessing economic well being, in that all of them help in better earning/income(which of course means higher consumptions)


Anyway , my reply regarding why autowallahs being considered middle class is good sign, was true because I was talking in relative to the CONgi BS years of 1947-91 when being a driver/autowallah meant you were going to be piss poor.

 

[Rowdy]

@Rowdy Dude, you got to be more precise next time. Anyway, certification/skills/education are all related only to slight degree in assessing economic well being, in that all of them help in better earning/income(which of course means higher consumptions)


Anyway , my reply regarding why autowallahs being considered middle class is good sign, was true because I was talking in relative to the CONgi BS years of 1947-91 when being a driver/autowallah meant you were going to be piss poor.

WHat's the use of a middle class that can't consume..... No use at all .... They should consume services and Good like the middle class to be considered middle class.... how much that is can be debated .....

 

[Mad Indian]

WHat's the use of a middle class that can't consume..... No use at all .... They should consume services and Good like the middle class to be considered middle class.... how much that is can be debated .....

Again stop running away with words. Give me a benchmark for what the income level for middle class should be.

And I don't understand why you are so obsessed with the indices while ignoring the big picture they are supposed to represent, which in this case is obcession with consumption of goods and services in this regard. So if I am able to buy lot of goods, I am rich? But if I produce all of it and don't buy it, am I poor? For instance, a typical Indian house does not need a microwave/washing machine/so on and can do just fine with doing dishes/food/washing clothes etc without them. So you can't quantify these as "x is not middle class as it is not able to buy xyz ". What matters is with what income can they lead a secured life. For that, I think 20k per month per household is more than enough in states like TN(or chennai) at least.

 

[Rowdy]

Again stop running away with words. Give me a benchmark for what the income level for middle class should be.

What I am saying is that it varies from place to place as cost of living changes so we should use consumption as the benchmark instead. This can include a basket of items like Housing(How much rent he can pay(if he has his own house how much he can save or some kind of equivalent)), Services consumed e.g. Internet /DTH , Savings , etc.
Example : an auto wallah in Mumbai that earns 25k will have the same consumption as an auto wallah that earns 10k in tier 2 as he will spend less on rent and other things are cheap too. So we just look at their consumption basket ... i.e. how big a room they have rented ... how much quality of life his kids can afford etc.

And I don't understand why you are so obsessed with the indices while ignoring the big picture they are supposed to represent, which in this case is obcession with consumption of goods and services in this regard.

I've been saying IGNORE the Incomes and look at consumption...IDK what you mean with this.

So if I am able to buy lot of goods, I am rich? But if I produce all of it and don't buy it, am I poor?

A single individual / household cannot produce all that is required for a decent life ... even if he/they could they cannot produce the services

For instance, a typical Indian house does not need a microwave/washing machine/so on and can do just fine with doing dishes/food/washing clothes etc without them

Good example ... but do note this will be reflected in their electricity consumption... so we can just look at the electricity consumption and add it to total consumption to make a middle class "line".

What matters is with what income can they lead a secured life. For that, I think 20k per month per household is more than enough in states like TN(or chennai) at least

And this 20k is a figure you'll have to update each year(inflation!!)....just make a consumption basket instead and release the income figure corresponding to it ...

 

[CrYsIs]

On 2011 census data...
Firstly, data collected is mainly focussed on rural india.
Secondly, They are counting the highest earning member between 5k-10k not for the entire family. that would mean data does not indicate total household income.
Thirdly, There is a heavy possibility of difference between average incomes of rural and urban india. This is called economic disparity, removing this is the toughest challenge.

Most of the time,the highest earning member happens to be the only earning member.Even if there are more than 1 earning member,the probability of total earning going above Rs 20,000 is very low.

And not to forget rural families are usually not nuclear and their average size is 5 or more.

What the government survey is essentially saying is that majority of the villagers are in the low income group which is what PEW report states

 

[CrYsIs]

A tbhk room in rural India costs 1500-2000rupees in rent in rural areas. What is the cost in Hyderabad? In rural India, salaries like 10k per month is golden, enough to lead a very good lifestyle. What about cities? And in rural areas, the schools which are present charge max 10- 20k per student per year in fees. What about in urban areas?
And so anyone who is talking about absolute income levels in rural and urban areas and decides that rural India is poor and inhumanly so is a big idiot.

LOL. 10K income per month is a perfectly awesome income for a rural house hold. It translates above the 2$ PPP per capita per day day level for poverty, specially when you consider what the PDS, govt schools, govt hospitals etc are providing for them for free of cost/subsidised cost

What kind of jingoistic fantasist are you ?

You can certainly live on Rs 10,000 pm in villages but not lead a good/middle class lifestyle as you proclaim.

Rs 10,000 is low even for villages because even there you have to pay for school,tuition,books,clothes,shoes,vegetables,electricity,water,cable,telephone,rents,fuel,medical exigencies,travel..........summing up would take the costs to more than Rs 10,000.

Subsidies for everything might be a thing for TN, but not outside,we have to pay for just about everything.


You claim to have been living in some village in TN but when i was an intern at Hindustan Aeronautics Limited i used to live in Koraput, which is the part of the infamous KBK region,the poorest part of India.
Even in this region you need to earn more than Rs 10,000 to lead a decent lifestyle.

 

[Rowdy]

What kind of jingoistic fantasist are you ?

You can certainly live on Rs 10,000 pm in villages but not lead a good/middle class lifestyle as you proclaim.

Rs 10,000 is low even for villages because even there you have to pay for school,tuition,books,clothes,shoes,vegetables,electricity,water,cable,telephone,rents,fuel,medical exigencies,travel..........summing up would take the costs to more than Rs 10,000.

Subsidies for everything might be a thing for TN, but not outside,we have to pay for just about everything.


You claim to have been living in some village in TN but when i was an intern at Hindustan Aeronautics Limited i used to live in Koraput, which is the part of the infamous KBK region,the poorest part of India.
Even in this region you need to earn more than Rs 10,000 to lead a decent lifestyle.

Agreed. This 20000/10000 is all bull$hit. We need consumption based measures and most Indians are in a low income group.

 

[Mad Indian]

Well the income 12000 per month was considered middle class and budget was presented for it 5 years back in a magazine in TN. I just adjusted it for inflation for today.

4k- food
3k- education
3k- for electricity, mobile, internet and other expenses
2k- out of ordinary/unexpected expenses
1k- petrol
1k- insurance?
Remaining will be for rent. Or better if owning a house already will be saved.

Tell me why 20k is insufficient for a good life?

 

[Mad Indian]

Let me hear you break it down. Go on.

Subsidies for everything might be a thing for TN, but not outside,we have to pay for just about everything.

Wowm what a pathetic moron you are! Who pays the for the subsidies moron? Its ultimately us Tamils for the Tamil nadu govt. So of course fucking yes er have to take the cost of living after accounting the subsidies. What kind of pathetic calculation let's you say we should discount subsidies?

As I said , we have measure only what the ground reality is not what your head says when it is up your ass.

In villages- food costs hardly 2-3k per month, education another 2k, petrol-1k, water -500, medicines and such- 1500. Mobile to current bill- 1k. You still have 2000 rupees to spend.

I never claimed that 10k is good enough for being middle class. I said it is good enough to be considered to have a good life.

 

[Rowdy]

I never claimed that 10k is good enough for being middle class. I said it is good enough to be considered to have a good life.

We are debating Middle class people..... People who will consume Cell phones , Cloths and will be quality scientists, engineers managers and doctors.

 

[Mad Indian]

We are debating Middle class people..... People who will consume Cell phones , Cloths and will be quality scientists, engineers managers and doctors.

Wow. Just wow. So the unexpected expenses of 1-2k per month does not fall under that, after I allotted 1k differently under insurance?

And this is exactly what I mean you guys are stuck with indices while ignoring the actual picture.

So you would not consider someone middle class unless he will be consuming junk, even if he does not really need it. Interesting defn. Except, buying /speninding for buying/spending sake does not lead to any useful outcome in the economy. So if I buy 100 phones each year and burn it all up, am I helping the economy better by consuming 100 phones? Of course not.

And I was talking about 20k income being the cut off for middle class. You don't have to be a doctor to earn it. That's my point. Your world view comes from a socialist indian reality which is not true today. Get with the times


This will be my last reply to you unless you give a figure of your own for middle class and back it up. I am sorry to burst your bubble if you thought that autowallahs can't lead a good life here.

And finally, it is extremely retarded to think only doctors/engineers/scientists can become middle class. If that's the case, then even western countries won't have a middle class bigger than 3%. But if you are claiming that western income levels are different or so and so, tell me again on the exact cut off point for being middle class in India (in mum chennai bang etc) .

 

[Mad Indian]

The problem with most of you guys is that you ignore the cost of living of different places. Earning 20k in chennai is basically the same as earning 80-100k in UK for instance.

 

[Rowdy]

This will be my last reply to you unless you give a figure of your own for middle class and back it up. I am sorry to burst your bubble if you thought that autowallahs can't lead a good life here.

Whatever .
Middle Class = Consumption Defined. Regardless of Profession.

 

[Rowdy]

so, tell me again on the exact cut off point for being middle class in India (in mum chennai bang etc)

What I am saying is that it varies from place to place as cost of living changes so we should use consumption as the benchmark instead. This can include a basket of items like Housing(How much rent he can pay(if he has his own house how much he can save or some kind of equivalent)), Services consumed e.g. Internet /DTH , Savings , etc.
Example : an auto wallah in Mumbai that earns 25k will have the same consumption as an auto wallah that earns 10k in tier 2 as he will spend less on rent and other things are cheap too. So we just look at their consumption basket ... i.e. how big a room they have rented ... how much quality of life his kids can afford etc.

........................................................................................................................

 

[CrYsIs]

Well the income 12000 per month was considered middle class and budget was presented for it 5 years back in a magazine in TN. I just adjusted it for inflation for today.

4k- food
3k- education
3k- for electricity, mobile, internet and other expenses
2k- out of ordinary/unexpected expenses
1k- petrol
1k- insurance?
Remaining will be for rent. Or better if owning a house already will be saved.

Tell me why 20k is insufficient for a good life?

At Rs 20,000 for a family of 4 you would be living a low income life and not a comfortable lifestyle.
You would be in margins of middle class but not truly a middle class.

You need to differentiate between low income and middle income group.A middle income people are ones who have disposable incomes for stuffs that are not necessarily basic necessity.A family of 4 living on Rs 20,000 would certainly never be investing their money on Multiplexes,outings,vacation,hotels,restaurants etc etc People who earn just enough to meet their daily demands are not middle class,they are low income group who make up the majority of the country

 

[pmaitra]

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Loved it.

Funny isn't it, when someone doesn't read and asks a question when it is already answered?

 

[pmaitra]

Indians celebrating an Indian Americans' success is like UK basking under USA's glory. Google is an American company, it's CEO decided to leave India forever and take US citizenship for a reason.

We must ask ourselves why we haven't be able to build anything like google. Even the so-called Indian VCs are chasing easy money (investing in e-Commerce huh!).

Good point.

Actually, Google is going to change. It will change to Alphabet Inc., while the Google name will remain, as a subsidiary of Alphabet Inc. Just like Sundarajan is an Indian born American, Sergey Brin is a Soviet born American. They are all Americans, after all.

http://www.cnn.com/2015/08/11/opinions/gosier-google-alphabet/index.html