OROP: Pension promise in peril?

Bhadra

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Missing the bigger picture on OROP


  • CALLS FOR PARTICIPATION: “One Rank One Pension is not just a dispute between ex-servicemen and the government. It is a national security issue where every citizen needs to pitch in.” Picture shows ex-servicemen at Jantar Mantar in New Delhi protesting for OROP.

  • PHOTO: PTI
    Ex-servicemen protesting for One Rank One Pension at Jantar Mantar in New Delhi earlier in the month.



The One Rank One Pension issue has been ignored for too long. But any victory achieved through bellicose means will be, at best, pyrrhic, leaving a bitter legacy.

The Indian armed forces are fighting their toughest battle ever. For an Army that has fought on every terrain and in every operation imaginable, this battle is confounding. Because this time, they don’t know which side the enemy is on.

As the national discussion about the plight of ex-servicemen reaches a crescendo, the toughest battle is being fought not at Jantar Mantar between the khaki and the olive green, nor is it being fought between South and North Block that house the mandarins of the Defence and Finance ministries respectively. The battle is definitely not about the blame game between political parties, none of whom solved the problem when they could. Neither is it being fought on primetime channels where screaming ‘experts’ misconstrue volume for value.

The toughest battle is being fought by the young leaders of our armed forces – the Lieutenants, Captains, and Majors. It is they who have to lead troops into battle with no material incentives to assist them. Consider their situation.

Acute shortage of officers

It is well-known that the Indian armed forces are facing a grave shortage when it comes to junior leaders. Many active combat units are facing an acute shortage of officers. Young officers, barely out of their teens, are handling bigger responsibilities than ever before and stepping up to discharge additional duties.

It is these young leaders who have to answer disconcerting questions from their troops, picketed in the heights of Siachen or the heat of the Thar, on why their own government is manhandling them. They have to justify the perceived perfidy of former Generals who seem to have forgotten their troops and the promises made to them. It is time we started thinking about our frontline troops and junior leaders who are getting disillusioned with their role models.

All stakeholders in this game, by definition, are on the same side. So, whether it is the ‘treacherous’ politicians; the ‘Machiavellian’ bureaucrats; the ‘arrogant’ policemen; the ‘indifferent’ bean counters or the ‘unreasonable’ ex-servicemen — they are all citizens of this country who will pay a heavy price if the fibre of our apolitical armed forces unravels. And it is unravelling.

Social media is rife with serious dissent among ex-servicemen and, more alarmingly, serving soldiers and officers. Conversations bordering on sedition are creeping into discussion threads. Junior officers are openly questioning the spine and integrity of their seniors. Soldiers from serving units are contributing monies to fund the One Rank One Pension (OROP) agitation, albeit in their personal capacities.

Sane voices who dissuade such collection are countered by those who challenge the basis on which Chiefs regularly contribute a day’s salary of the entire Army to the Prime Minister’s Relief Fund without the consent of their soldiers. Such open discussions — which just a decade ago would have amounted to heresy — constitute a grave development and provide a fertile ground for elements inimical to India.

It is critical to step back and look at the big picture. The fact that the OROP issue had been relegated to files for far too long is obvious from the critical mass of the problem and the indignation of the aggrieved. The fact that a former Chief chose to withdraw as an interlocutor underscores the divide and truculence of both sides. But it behoves the leaders of our Government, bureaucracy and most importantly the Defence Forces, both serving and retired, to realise that this impasse cannot be resolved in a combative manner. This is because, on one side you have the Indian armed forces, who have never learnt to take defeat regardless of the casualties suffered, and we should be thankful for that. Any result short of a victory will demoralise one of the finest armies of the world.

However, on the other hand, if the demands of OROP are achieved through bellicose means, what kind of armed forces would we leave as a legacy? One that fights its own government to get its due? Where does the story end? What prevents this pyrrhic victory from becoming a new ‘doctrine of belligerence’ that the armed forces use to press their demands in future? And what example will they set for their junior officers, struggling to keep their troops motivated?

The resolution to OROP doesn’t have to consist of a single silver bullet. Solutions can be a combination of the private sector stepping in with post-retirement options; the clustering of ex-servicemen into categories and re-skilling and funding them for entrepreneurship; and a slew of other measures to ensure the dignity and livelihood of our ex-servicemen.

We can achieve this outcome provided we comprehend that this is not just a dispute between ex-servicemen and the government. It is a national security issue where every citizen needs to pitch in. Because, if war is too serious a business to be left to generals, nation-building is too serious a process to be left to the politicians and bureaucrats.

(The author is a former Army officer and founding CEO, NATGRID.)
 

Bhadra

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'To compare bureaucrats to those in armed forces is laughable'

Last updated on: August 28, 2015 18:03 IST

‘Service in the Armed Forces can’t be compared to government service. If that basic premise is not accepted, then there’s no scope for any debate on OROP’

‘No one joins the Armed Forces on a contract. They join to serve. Armed Forces attract those who want to serve, not based on financial terms and contracts’

Rajya Sabha MP Rajeev Chandrasekhar, a passionate advocate of OROP, speaks to Sudhir Bisht.



Ex-servicemen and their families continue their protest demanding OROP at Jantar Mantar, New Delhi. The protest has now been on for 75 days. Photograph: PTI
Rajeev Chandrasekhar is a passionate votary of One Rank, One Pension and has been championing the cause since 2006 vocally within and outside Parliament.

He has taken over 60 major initiatives inside and outside Parliament including 25 interventions, 30 letters to government, 12+ articles in the media and dozen meetings with ministers and veterans.

Most recently, on August 24, 2015, he was the only politician who visited Jantar Mantar and expressed his solidarity with and support to the protesting veterans, their family members and to OROP.

The member of Parliament spoke to Sudhir Bisht.

It has become politically incorrect to question the implementation of One Rank One Pension, but there are several government employees who feel that they will lose out if the scheme is implemented. What is your take on it?

It is not politically wrong to ask questions but they do not understand the very different service conditions our armed forces endure.

Is it not important to make a distinction between officers and jawans? Officers retire at the age of 54, with two extensions. A jawan, on the other had, retires at 38. Hence, isn’t the premise that all armymen retire young wrong and the portrayal of the same incorrect?

Most of the benefits of OROP are for jawans and war widows. The bulk of the armed forces do retire young and OROP is a legitimate right.

Officers are a very small percentage of the total strength of the armed forces. Besides this, the ethos of the armed forces is based heavily on honour and respect to seniority. The fact is that there shouldn’t be differences or divisions between terms of officers and men, their nature of service and risk and the fact that OROP was a norm for many years is reason that officers also have a right to OROP.

Why is it surprising that a retired major general gets a pension less than a young retired colonel? This happens everywhere, all the time. A retired Central Reserve Police Force commandant who is 75 years of age will get lesser pension than an assistant commandant who is 60 years of age. A retired deputy secretary who is 80 gets 20 per cent less pension than the under secretary who is just 60 and has just retired. The logic for OROP for people retiring at different times doesn’t make any sense.

As I said earlier, comparing the armed forces to the paramilitary forces or any other government service is the argument that the governments of many years have used to justify the denial of OROP.

The basic premise of OROP is the recognition that serving in the armed forces is different in many ways. If that basic premise is not accepted, then there’s no scope for any debate on OROP.



Rajya Sabha MP Rajeev Chandrashekhar
The Indian Army does a great job for its citizens. So does the CRPF, the Border Security Force and Indo-Tibetan Border Police. The officers of these paramilitary services compulsorily retire at 57 if they don’t get the DIG grade. How is it then that only army officers can be given the OROP benefit?


Like I said before, Army officers can’t be separated from the men they command and lead into battle and conflicts. These arguments have been debated endlessly before, including to a parliamentary committee on petitions (Koshiari committee) and addressed. The armed forces are not the same as the paramilitary forces. They differ in many fundamental ways
When these retired officers joined their respective jobs, they entered into a contract. The contract didn’t say that they will get One Rank One Pension. To force it upon the government is an act of negotiation, just as any union or association would pursue with its employers. This makes OROP a subject of negotiation and NOT a matter of right, as is being portrayed.

I disagree. OROP became a promise that was made and committed. There is not much to negotiate on OROP, except perhaps the terms of the payment in keeping with the government’s economic situation. To many in the armed forces, this is a right.

No one joins the armed Forces on a contract. They join to serve. Armed forces attract those who want to serve not based on financial terms and contracts. To think so, betrays a lack of understanding of what makes men in the forces tick.

And, nothing is being ‘portrayed’. It’s a simple issue of principle to those who serve and to those in our country who value the ideals of service to nation. Veterans have been asking for this for several years and the current situation is the culmination of decades of frustration. It is not a ‘portrayal’ to see repeated instances of apathy to the overall cause of veterans and a system that has remained apathetic to normal dignified requests all these years.

If OROP is implemented for the armed forces, the paramilitary too shall demand the same. And why not? It is well known that a high number of General Reserve Engineer Force/ Border road workers die due to frost bite or cold while working in high altitude road projects, many more than the number of soldiers who die during border skirmishes. Why should GREF personnel not demand OROP? Why should the fire services not demand OROP?

Like I said, there’s nothing preventing people asking or doing things. But as I have answered, this is a bogie, a red herring raised for several years. Prime Minister Narendra Modi has already committed to this because he has no doubts of the very different service conditions of the armed forces. Additionally, this is not to say that the other forces do not deserve improvement in their terms, but clearly none that justifies OROP.

Government servants who joined after 2004 are no longer entitled to a guaranteed minimum pension by the government. In light of this, shouldn’t any formula given by the government be welcomed by the armed forces, as the days of guaranteed pension are over?

I hesitate to say this, but say it I must. A bureaucrat is no way comparable to a man or woman who serves in the armed forces. Nowhere is this comparison even attempted, not in the United States, the United Kingdom or even China. It’s laughable and making that comparison is ludicrous.

Countries like the US and UK and most other advanced democracies, with armies that are facing conflict, venerate the men and women who serve.

The UK parliament has even passed a law called Armed Forces Covenant (the Armed Forces Covenant is the expression of the moral obligation that the government and the nation owe to the armed forces community. The covenant acknowledges that members of the armed forces sacrifice some freedoms and often face dangerous situations. It recognises that families play a vital role in supporting the operational effectiveness of the armed forces). It is only in India where our men and women have to go through the humiliation of a comparison with a discredited bureaucracy.

Sudhir Bisht is a published author and a freelance columnist.

Sudhir Bisht in New Delhi
 

Bhadra

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वन रैंक-वन पेंशन - 30 साल की मुराद, बनाम 10 हजार परिवार


वन रैंक-वन पेंशन - 30 साल की मुराद, बनाम 10 हजार परिवार
बस्ती : 30 वर्षों से उठ रही वन रैंक-वन पेंशन की मुराद पूरी होने का आसार दिखते ही 10 हजार पूर्व सैनिक परिवारों में उम्मीद के दिए जगमगाने लगे हैं। इन सबका कहना है कि असली जश्न तो तब होगा, जब इसकी घोषणा हो जाएगी। 30 साल पहले एक्स सर्विस मैन एसोसिएशन ने सबसे पहले यह आवाज उठाई थी।
पूर्व सैनिकों के लिए यह मांग बेहद अहमियत इसलिए रखती है, क्योंकि 33 साल की उम्र में रिटायर होने के बाद बाकी उम्र पेंशन पर ही गुजारनी होती है। वन रैंक वन पेंशन मतलब अलग-अलग समय पर रिटायर हुए एक ही रैंक के दो फौजियों को समान पेंशन देना। फिलहाल रिटायर होने वाले लोगों को उनके रिटायरमेंट के समय के नियमों के हिसाब से पेंशन मिलती है। यानी जो लोग 25 साल पहले रिटायर हुए हैं उन्हें उस समय के हिसाब से पेंशन मिल रही है जो बहुत कम होती है।

फौजियों की मांग है कि 1 अप्रैल 2014 से यह योजना छठे वेतन आयोग की सिफारिशों के साथ लागू किया जाए। सेवानिवृत्त कर्नल केसी मिश्र का कहना है कि हमें तो 33 साल पर ही रिटायर कर दिया जाता है, और उसके बाद सारा जीवन हम पेंशन से ही गुजारते हैं। जबकि अन्य कर्मचारी 60 साल तक पूरी तनख्वाह पाते हैं। ऐसे में दूसरे विभागों को न देखते हुए सैनिकों को यह सुविधा मिलनी चाहिए। रिटायर्ड सैन्यकर्मी लंबे समय से यह मांग कर रहे हैं। इसे लेकर कई पूर्व सैन्यकर्मियों ने अपने पदक लौटा दिए थे। इसकी पहली वजह यह है कि अभी सैन्यकर्मियों को एक ही रैंक पर रिटायरमेंट के बाद उनकी सेवा के कुल वर्ष के हिसाब से अलग-अलग पेंशन मिलती है।

छठां वेतन आयोग लागू होने के बाद 1996 से पहले रिटायर हुए सैनिक की पेंशन 1996 के बाद रिटायर हुए सैनिक से कम हो गई। इसी तरह 2006 से पहले रिटायर हुए मेजर की पेंशन उनके बाद रिटायर हुए अफसर से कम हो गई। मांग उठने की एक वजह यह भी है कि चूंकि सैन्यकर्मी अन्य सरकारी कर्मचारियों की तुलना में जल्दी रिटायर हो जाते हैं, इसलिए उनके लिए पेंशन स्कीम अलग रखी जाए। बकौल मिश्र 30 साल पहले एक्स सर्विस मैन एसोसिएशन बनाकर मांग उठाई गई। 2008 में इंडियन एक्स सर्विसमैन मूवमेंट (आईएसएम) नामक संगठन बनाकर रिटायर्ड फौजियों ने संघर्ष तेज किया। जो अब निर्णायक दौर में पहुंचा है।


इसलिए होती रही देरी

- सरकार को इस बात का भय है कि आर्मी, एयरफोर्स और नेवी के लिए यह योजना लागू करने के बाद कहीं दूसरे अ‌र्द्धसैनिक बलों (पैरामिलिट्री फोर्सेस) की तरफ से भी इस तरह की मांग न उठे।
हालांकि केंद्र ने अब इस पेंशन योजना के लिए अलग प्रशासनिक और आर्थिक ढांचा तैयार कर लिया है।



कब क्या-क्या हुआ
- 1973 तक सेना में वन रैंक वन पेंशन थी। उन्हें आम लोगों से ज्यादा वेतन मिलता था।
- 1973 में आए तीसरे वेतन आयोग ने सशस्त्र बलों का वेतन आम लोगों के बराबर कर दिया।
- सितंबर 2009 में सुप्रीम कोर्ट ने सरकार को वन रैंक वन पेंशन पर आगे बढ़ने का आदेश दिया।
- मई 2010 में सेना पर बनी स्थाई समिति ने वन रैंक वन पेंशन लागू करने की सिफारिश की।
- सितंबर 2013 - बीजेपी के प्रधानमंत्री पद के उम्मीदवार नरेंद्र मोदी ने प्रचार के दौरान वन रैंक वन पेंशन लागू करने का वादा किया।
- फरवरी 2014 - यूपीए सरकार ने इसे लागू करने का फैसला किया और 500 करोड़ रुपए का बजट आवंटित किया।
- जुलाई 2014 - मोदी सरकार ने बजट में वन रैंक वन पेंशन का मुद्दा उठाया और इसके लिए अलग से 1000 करोड़ रुपए रखने की बात की।


- फरवरी 2015 - सुप्रीम कोर्ट ने सरकार को तीन महीने के अंदर वन रैंक वन पेंशन लागू करने को कहा।


Read more: http://www.staffnews.in/2015/08/30-10.html#ixzz3kBIXOR8t
 

bengalraider

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Just got some insider information from a retd colonel who now works with me.
GOI was offering OROP with effect from 1st April 2015, with one revision every five years. Gen. Satbir has just offered the GOI that the same is acceptable with two changes.
1) four revisions each decade, also revisions each time central pay commission approves pay increase.
2) under no circumstances will a junior draw more pension than a senior officer who's served for a similar timespan.

Also learnt that FM was reprimanded by RSS top brass for spoiling PMs image by toeing beuracrat line on OROP , this was in presence of NAMO.
PM and team instructed by RSS top brass to do all in their power to ensure OROP implemented before announcement of Bihar poll dates.
 

hit&run

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OROP announced.

Congress-I and AAP out to troll and deny any advantage BJP deserve.

Gen. Satvir Singh looks like stooge of opposition party/ies. Yesterday on a news channel he was abusing RSS when he should have been not poking his nose else where but stick to his issue of concern.
 

ezsasa

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Does anybody know the original cost of military pensions? We now know that pensions post OROP gonna cost between 10-12k crore, but what was the initial cost?
 

tarunraju

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Government's offer of OROP is more than reasonable given the sheer size of our military pensioners, and the cost that OROP would put on the exchequer. There still appear to be some AAP-driven groups making unreasonable, greedy, and borderline seditious demands/statements.
 

Bhadra

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Just got some insider information from a retd colonel who now works with me.
GOI was offering OROP with effect from 1st April 2015, with one revision every five years. Gen. Satbir has just offered the GOI that the same is acceptable with two changes.
1) four revisions each decade, also revisions each time central pay commission approves pay increase.
2) under no circumstances will a junior draw more pension than a senior officer who's served for a similar timespan.

Also learnt that FM was reprimanded by RSS top brass for spoiling PMs image by toeing beuracrat line on OROP , this was in presence of NAMO.
PM and team instructed by RSS top brass to do all in their power to ensure OROP implemented before announcement of Bihar poll dates.
That indeed is the biggest problem of Faujies that the bureaucrats especially the IAS (earlier the ICS) consider the fauji officers as a threat to them and make all out efforts to show them down and degrade their status. This has been a historic phenomenon and the bureaucrats took full advantages of Nehru and Congress politicians apathy and perceived threat from Army Coup and kept distancing Armed Forces further and further from the decision making loop.

Their are historical reasons for this - The rivalry between Lord Curzon and Lord Kitchener resulting in creation of an accounts department for military - the avataar of present day CDA for financial control and introduction of civilians in war department - the avataar of present day MoD- for administrative control. That was specifically done so that the CinC of India does not pursue his independent policies in Afghanistan but only under the supervision of War office in London. That system after independence was not only kept but further strengthened.

Secondly, Indians were introduced in civil services quite early by Brirtish Raj - in fact soon after 1958 as uncovenanted civil service under Imperial Civil Service and headed by the Secretary of State for India, a member of the British cabinet. By 1922 there were five categories of Indian civilians as ICS. The relationship between Indian Army and ICS was quite complex. Indian Army was completely officered by the White British officers till about 1935 when a few Indians started being commissioned. Under British Raj Indian Army was the most powerful and final instrument of authority. The status of Army officer was always higher firstly being a white British and secondly because he was also paid well. There was no match between a Kalu ICS and an Army Officer. Thus the Kalu ICS babu always felt segregated and below the status - not memebr of India Army Clubs.. This complex wrecked a havoc of the status of Indian Army post independence when the first thing Nehru did was to halve the military pays and brig down the precedence for them successively and continously. It is pathetic that even today many senior civil servants accuse the Indian Forces of being Colonial in attitude !!

today, to my astonishment and surprise I find that majority of IAS, IPS and all other Class A Civil services officers had appeared before SSB at some or the other stage of their life and are SSB rejects. That rejection tag they psychologically carry in their lives. When they become IAS or IPS or some other categories even as Section officers - they wreck their vengeance on the Army for that rejection.

Politicians are a seasonal lots and think of their five years problems. They hardly have time, inclination or training to think and decide on complex subjects such as defence or military. Hence Babus rule the roost. In the history of Independent India there hardly has been a defense minister who ever came to grasps of the bird called MoD leave aside defense forces. In five years time, one can barely understand ordnance factories and the muck they create- one tenth part of MoD.

In the above background - RSS reprimanding Jaitlly for towing bureaucratic line of Finance Ministry is apt and in order. Issues related to Defense Service in India are always laced with deliberate and conscious bureaucratic negative interference.

It was never pointed out in the entire propaganda undertaken by the likes of Sekhar Gupta that the only 45 percent of the pensionary burden of MoD goes to Ex- Servicemen and widows and 55 percent or more goes to civilian.

No one also pointed out as to how the IAS and other class A Civil services had confered on to themselves OROP post sixth paycommission through the route called NFU where in every one reches appex scale which is protected for pension as OROP.

How can a wise a astute man like Jaitly be so carried away by his finance ministry bureaucrates that he become partial and blind to rational decision making.
 

Bhadra

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Government's offer of OROP is more than reasonable given the sheer size of our military pensioners,
There are security compulsion of that number. Can that number be halved? OK- IF you aves it obtaining same amount of security will cost four times more in terms of cost of armament and technology.

and the cost that OROP would put on the exchequer.
the cost is well known and calculated several times. Had antony implemented it, it would have cost 3200 crores at that time. scare of cost is misinformation.

There still appear to be some AAP-driven groups making unreasonable, greedy, and borderline seditious demands/statements.
Please do not trivialise the issue.
 
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bengalraider

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Just learnt that five years will be revised to three post a meeting between veterans leaders and NAMO,think of it as a way of NAMO signing on the OROP document.The official order will only come post that.
 

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Arun Jaitley is the troll in the cabinet. Modi must get rid of him as soon as possible. I am unable to understand why he is even there, he hasn't won any elections.
 

Bhadra

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One of the biggest examples of bureaucratic negativism and "Chataki" to thwart the good efforts of the government and deny the rightful dues to Armed Forces personnel is the clause of VRS, stating that those who proceed on VRS will not be benefitted by OROP.

Now this word "VRS" is not there in Armed Forces. This means this note had been prepared for honourable RM by the PMO not MoD. The principle Secretary Mishra and his working hand the JS dealing with the issue. The former COAS Gen Malik was laughing over their behaviour the other day.

officers and Jawans proceed on what is called "volunteery retirement" on completion of "Pensionable Service" as per their terms of engagement. For officers it is 20 years of service and for ranks other than officers it is 15 years of service. It means that it is the term and condition of service. Beyond those limits officers and ranks other than officers are allowed to serve upto various ages as per their ranks.

Having completed their terms of engagements, they become free to apply for pre-mature retirement with pensions rendered for their services. If one requests for retirement before the terms of engagement - one is not allowed pension.

Now this is laughable that having fulfilled the conditions of service, the bureaucracy is trying to impose dis-advantages on them by denying OROP. What is required for the benefit of the organisation and the country? Is not it enough that a Jawan has served for 15 years or an officer has served for 20 years. Any thing further must be based on incentives for them to continue serving? What are the incentives - IAS bureaucracy have never given it a thought.

If one joins Armed Forces voluntarily, it does not amount to be a slave. After all we all join any govt service voluntarily. In Army HQ, which is filled with worst kind of civilians of reserved category, every one appears in All India Civil Services Examination or another examinations every year. All Army / Servicemen are denied that.

I am loath at hearing that Servicemen seek "green pastures" but they seek that only after retirement and after fulfilling the terms and conditions of Service. If at all, it is to their credit that they get green pastures after 15 / 20 years of hard life. All other class A services are into not green but butter pastures from Go..

If Forces have trained one officer to be pilot, engineer, doctor, ship navigator etc they have sucked him dry for twenty years at pittance ... having been exploited for 20 years thus, now for God sake allow him some green pasture when he has reached about 44 years oaf age. He also has family and children. A police is in green pasture from the first day of his service. An Army jawan wishes to enter green pasture after 15 years of coloured Service is no a sinner.

A soldier is a citizen of India and he also must be provided equal opportunity for betterment of his life.

Having sucked him dry - do not force him penury...

At the end - why a soldier or an officer takes pre-mature retirement?

He has Family compulsions
He has been overlooked in promotion and no future prospects..
or he thinks he can earn better outside...

All three reasons are not sins..
 

Bhadra

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OROP will apply to Armed forces personnel who retired prematurely: Modi
Modi also said that the commission proposed to be set up is to address shortcomings, if any, in the OROP decision.
By: Express Web Desk | New Delhi | Updated: September 6, 2015 1:17 pm


Prime Minister Narendra Modi.

Prime Minister Narendra Modi on Sunday clarified on the One Rank One Pension announcement, saying Armed forces personnel who retired prematurely will be entitled to it.

“Some people are trying to mislead armed forces on OROP and are trying to score political points,” Modi said, adding that the Congress had no right to question his government over OROP when it did nothing for 40 years.

The Prime Minister was speaking at a rally in Faridabad after inaugurating the extension of a Delhi Metro line.

Modi also said that the commission proposed to be set up is to address shortcomings, if any, in the OROP decision.

Watch video – Explained: One Rank One Pension

On Saturday, Defence Minister Manohar Parrikar announced the implementation of the new system of determining pensions of Armed Forces veterans, but failed to satisfy the protesters at Jantar Mantar, who said their agitation would continue.

OROP will be implemented retrospectively from July 2014, with pensions of 2013 as base, Parrikar said at a press conference that he addressed with the three Service chiefs, Minister of State for Defence Rao Inderjit Singh, and Defence Secretary G Mohan Kumar by his side.

Pensions will be revised every five years, and premature retirees will be excluded from the scheme, Parrikar said. Both these conditions were rejected by the protesting veterans. “Despite the huge fiscal burden, given its commitment to the welfare of ex-Servicemen, the government has taken a decision to implement the OROP… It has been decided that the gap between the rate of pension of current pensioners and past pensioners will be bridged every 5 years… Personnel who voluntarily retire will not be covered under the OROP scheme,” Parrikar said.
 

vram

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Guys I dont know why but all this OROP ongoing drama has left me completely disenchanted with the Army..
I agree that pensions need to be normalized..that they need to reflect the current inflation prices.
Dont get me wrong I am not against this revision.
But come on guys what is this argument put forward by veterans that they will not allow even a single senior retired officer to draw lesser than a single junior officer who has retired after some period of time??
This smacks of rigid hierarchial thinking and blind ego.
The 5 year revision period will allow this pension to be normalized to current rates..but they will be a short period of time when the pensions will be unequal. This is logical. A country like it is unthinkable to have yearly pension reviews.We will go bankrupt.
Also Permature retirement is also one area where I have my concerns through personal experience. I agree that they should also get pension revisions but it should be based on whether or not they have found gainful employment elsewhere.
My uncle whom I don't want to name took premature retirement after 20 years and since then found work as senior Admin manager in HCL and was earning close to six figure salary.Many of his batchmates who got out early also found work in many private sector companies including one family friend who was appointed as MD-logistics in a prestigious organization.Its not as if the media is making out and all the vets are working as watchmen or begging. Many are doing respectably well either in business or private companies.Many off these people have not been really deployed in border areas or if so only for short periods of time troubled areas. And where ever they go there is the exclusive club membership and canteen benefits and other misc benifits etc.etc.

Also this appears to be becoming more and more a ego and slanging match between the babus and the veterans.

Tell me, when I keep thinking about all this my dis interest is the armed forces is increasing day by day.

I am a private sector employees who works day in and day out in a highly competitive sector with no job security to make end meet and try to get atleast some comfortable living.Even I too miss many family functions,downtime and also on top of this my performance gets appraised every year.
I am a fairly patriotic citizen and though I don't stand in the border with a gun in hand I still do my fair share to keep this country running.After all a viable country needs its farmers,soldiers and its workers also .... Nearly 30% all my income goes to the GOI and state govt. I do charitable work and try to be conscientious citizen of this country and help wherever possible for poor people welfare.
All these central and state govt employees get job security perpetual inflation based pay revision,absolutely nill performance review and on top of this govt assured updated pensions!!
I don't even get a **** lolipop from any govt of India!!!!!!!! What happens if I loose my job? Will govt give me pension? Shall I go and sit in Jantar Mantar and do dharnaa?
Sorry for the rant ! just filed my IT returns last week and pissed of that the Govt took more money than entititled and I now have to get a refund.
Don't know how much pillar to post I have to run get my refund from the glorified Govt employees.
 

Bhadra

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Guys I dont know why but all this OROP ongoing drama has left me completely disenchanted with the Army..
I agree that pensions need to be normalized..that they need to reflect the current inflation prices.
Dont get me wrong I am not against this revision.
But come on guys what is this argument put forward by veterans that they will not allow even a single senior retired officer to draw lesser than a single junior officer who has retired after some period of time??
This smacks of rigid hierarchial thinking and blind ego.
The 5 year revision period will allow this pension to be normalized to current rates..but they will be a short period of time when the pensions will be unequal. This is logical. A country like it is unthinkable to have yearly pension reviews.We will go bankrupt.
Also Permature retirement is also one area where I have my concerns through personal experience. I agree that they should also get pension revisions but it should be based on whether or not they have found gainful employment elsewhere.
My uncle whom I don't want to name took premature retirement after 20 years and since then found work as senior Admin manager in HCL and was earning close to six figure salary.Many of his batchmates who got out early also found work in many private sector companies including one family friend who was appointed as MD-logistics in a prestigious organization.Its not as if the media is making out and all the vets are working as watchmen or begging. Many are doing respectably well either in business or private companies.Many off these people have not been really deployed in border areas or if so only for short periods of time troubled areas. And where ever they go there is the exclusive club membership and canteen benefits and other misc benifits etc.etc.

Also this appears to be becoming more and more a ego and slanging match between the babus and the veterans.

Tell me, when I keep thinking about all this my dis interest is the armed forces is increasing day by day.

I am a private sector employees who works day in and day out in a highly competitive sector with no job security to make end meet and try to get atleast some comfortable living.Even I too miss many family functions,downtime and also on top of this my performance gets appraised every year.
I am a fairly patriotic citizen and though I don't stand in the border with a gun in hand I still do my fair share to keep this country running.After all a viable country needs its farmers,soldiers and its workers also .... Nearly 30% all my income goes to the GOI and state govt. I do charitable work and try to be conscientious citizen of this country and help wherever possible for poor people welfare.
All these central and state govt employees get job security perpetual inflation based pay revision,absolutely nill performance review and on top of this govt assured updated pensions!!
I don't even get a **** lolipop from any govt of India!!!!!!!! What happens if I loose my job? Will govt give me pension? Shall I go and sit in Jantar Mantar and do dharnaa?
Sorry for the rant ! just filed my IT returns last week and pissed of that the Govt took more money than entititled and I now have to get a refund.
Don't know how much pillar to post I have to run get my refund from the glorified Govt employees.

@vram

one should agree with your depiction of Civilians trivial in India but consider following:

Even if in penury a civilian has a stable life, stable environment, one school for children, one good hospital around, one post office and one bank and one house to live in.

Civilian stays with his wife, children, parents, relatives and society - is an active member and participants in looking after them, bring them up, share their pleasures and sorrows - in other words he is more capable of fulfilling purposes of life.

After-all money is not the end but means to many ends. A fauji is deprived of many of those purposes and ends. He does not see his children grow not share pleasure of their childhood; can not share sorrows of his parents in person, can not live with his dotting wife like you do - all these are human value with a tag of life on them.

I have seen officers children attending 10 or more schools before they pass their class 12th examination - need I tell you what catastrophic effects it has on them?

So a fauji has no means of playing with stock markets and shares like you do half the time. He has no one bank - no one address, No election voting card - and he does not vote - not that he does not like... he does have a government house in RK Puram to be sublet and rake hefty rent out of it..

He has no right of freedom of speech, freedom of association, freedom of union ..... are those things valueless ? Are not those attributes fundamental to life which you enjoy but faujies do not..

Faujies also pay income tax like you do, some of them double the amount you must be paying. Faujies also stand in line , faujies also have to buttress the corrupt Babu, the correct policeman and the sucking civilians for all his jobs and errands.. including Railwaywals.. patwari..licencewala.. birth certificatewala ...schoolwala... to name a few...

Your children remain in metros and faujies children in some obscure part of cantonments like Dhana, Sagar, Jhansi, Misamari, Dibrugarh, Dinjan..... the list is endless. You might not have even heard those names...
But yes, faujies do make such places a place of future - India's future. Look at places like Bangalore, Mysore, Vishakhapatnam, Cochin, Jhansi, Talbhet, Agra, Allahabad, Meerut, Firozpur, Fazilka, Ludhiana, Ambala, Pathankot and thousands of other. These have come up around faujies and are engines of India's economic progress today.

Your rants are a product of your half baked information about fauj and faujies...

I would leave it that ... that the quality of life you enjoy is not solely the function of your individual worth. There are numerous contributor to that ... both ways !!
 

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