OROP: Pension promise in peril?

Bhadra

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@grampiguy


Life expectancy of soldiers low: study


http://www.thehindu.com/2005/12/29/stories/2005122904610900.htm

Sandeep Dikshit

NEW DELHI: Soldiers die early after they hang up their boots compared to government servants who retire later and live longer, according to a study conducted by a retired general. The finding has led the Army to order an official study of the phenomenon.
The death of two course mates prompted Maj. Gen. (retd.) Surjit Singh to study the life expectancy rate of soldiers. He found that the average life span of former soldiers was 58 years compared to 78 of retired government servants. Gen. Singh's association with two pay commissions and experience in handling manpower planning in the Army might have aided his study, which led to the "striking revelation" that the combat soldier who retired early was also the youngest to die compared with superannuated government servants.
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According to Gen. Singh, the Army is the only government service in which promotion to higher ranks has a simultaneous effect on the length of service. Thus, when a soldier does not qualify for the next rank, he foregoes the right to serve for a longer period.
"My study shows that retirement age has a relationship with longevity. A lot of it has to do with the rapid fall in living standards when a foot soldier retires, typically between 37 and 43 years of age. At the age, most of them have a growing up family, no job and a measly pension." he said, making a strong case for one-rank-one-pension to avert the sharp fall in dietary and other living requirements when a soldier hangs up his boots.
"He has seen the good days. The drop in standards and the increasing burden of looking after the family kills him when he sees how the good days have dropped after his leaving the Army."
According to the study, forwarded to Defence Minister Pranab Mukherjee, a retired Army man lives less with drop in rank. Senior officers live up to 72 years, the average age of junior officers is 67 and that of a soldier from the engineering battalion is 63.
The infantry soldier, who does the actual fighting, has the lowest life expectancy rate at 59. He also retires the earliest. The study is based on a survey of 6,000 retired Army men from Hyderabad and Gurgaon, besides those who served with engineering units, Gen. Singh's parent regiment
 

Bhadra

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I hope people would at least read the article by Ajay Shukla, a relevant portion of which has been quoted herein, and heretoforth, refrain from shielding the generals from legitimate criticism.
yes, I have seen that and possibly your anonymous reply to that post which is pathetic ... your obsession of calling some soldiers as mercenaries.. ... take a break.

Tell me why ordinance factories can not be manned by all retired soldiers ... the officers of OVB can be all Service officer on lateral induction or Short Service Officers..

All will serve till 60 and problems of OROP will be sorted out... Ha
 
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Bhadra

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Pretty strong arguments from the other side of the OROP debate :

Avuy Shukla : THE BITTER TRUTH ABOUT OROP
http://hillpost.in/2015/08/the-bitter-truth-about-orop/104013/


Any comments ???
The article conveniently leaves many issues ?

If the pension system was so well founded and evolved over a period of time, then why defence pension which used to be 70 percent of last pay brought down to 50 per cent? On the contrary, why civilian pension which used to be 30 per cent of the last pay brought up to 50 per cent ? The writer says apples and oranges can not be compared -agreed but the IAS babus forces apples to be oranges. What happened to that vast web and intricate structure of pension which was fundamentally altered ? Such fallacious arguments ?

OROP has not only been guaranteed to apex scales but virtually to every one in Class A services of Central Government through a mechanism called NFU. Every one in Class A services will get NFU of the scale of IAS after one particular batch IAS picks up a grade. Since IAS reaches Appex grade, all get apex grade after two years of IAS. So every one there is OROP?

Why Commissioned officer have been left out of that highly mischievous monkey distribution ? And that awesome pension web which I think the author clearly does not understand ? So one class of govt employee takes away privileged at the cost of the others? Is that the " holy pension web" being alluded?

It was well established and recognised fact and principle prior to VI Pay commission that Services Officers will have an edge over the civilian counterparts specially over All India Service owing to their " Special and Peculiar Service Condition". For example All India Service entrants use to start with basic of 7000 but Commissioned Officers started with 7500/- . The fifth Pay Commission justified that on the ground of keeping the status as special and high. But why was that abolished by the Babus of VI Pay Commission ? No one knows.

Why is the period of training of commissioned officer not recognised as service and why is not paid like all other Services? That ultimately leads to lesser pension at the end.

The article is more of meaningless English and lesser on fact based or historical analysis.

The auther of the article should know that since 01 Jan 2004, it is NPS system for all except Defence. Given the average attrition rate of 3 per cent per annum and increment rate of only 1 percent, by now the govt force structure is about 20 percent down. In time to come the govt pension liability will drastically reduce.

Hence granting OROP at this juncture is not going to put Indian Finances and Expenditure upside down as is being brought out.

At the end it seems to be a paid article.
 

Bhadra

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Time to implement OROP is now
Aug 21, 2015
Asian Age


http://www.asianage.com/editorial/time-implement-orop-now-464

The ease with which legislators vote themselves a pay raise frequently enough is matched only by the eagerness of pay commissions to dole out more to civil servants at every turn

The demand for one rank, one pension (OROP) has been in the air for over 40 years. There is a sense of urgency to it now as promises seem to have crystallised into some action with the government of Prime Minister Narendra Modi saying that OROP reform has been accepted in principle and that only work on the modalities remains. With the Prime Minister reiterating the Centre’s commitment in his Independence Day speech, the clamour has risen to a fever pitch for time-bound delivery. Demonstrations that are gaining ground as well as threats of fasts unto death have further complicated an issue that impacts the lives of more than two million ex-servicemen as well as more than half a million war widows.

The seeking of parity in pensions between those who retired in more recent times and those who superannuated much earlier in the same rank is a fair demand as inflation and the rapidly rising cost of living in recent years have eaten into the pensions. Sharp anomalies were brought about after the Third Pay Commission decided to raise the pensions of those who were in civilian services to equate them with the pensions of ex-servicemen in 1973.

The principle of rewarding bravery in the line of duty was being well served when the pensions for service in the armed forces was higher than that of people in the civil services, but the disproportionate influence of bureaucrats has been the root cause of the anomalous situation when the pensions were equalised over 40 years ago. Normally, the demand for OROP should have granted long ago if not for the huge outlays involved. Estimates vary widely in how much OROP would cost the nation now — about Rs 8,300 crore a year based on a February 2014 model, or Rs 20,000 crore per year, which is, however, thought to be on the high side. Even so, is that too much to pay for those who have protected the country’s territorial integrity, more than six lakh of whom have laid down their lives so that millions of their countrymen may live securely?

The ease with which legislators vote themselves a pay raise frequently enough is matched only by the eagerness of pay commissions to dole out more to civil servants at every turn. To extend that generosity to an army of people from the armed forces should not be as difficult as it is being made out to be. Having accepted OROP in principle, nothing should hold up its implementation now. It is up to the Prime Minister to walk the talk, especially since it has been arranged for the former top brass of the forces to meet him next week.
 

pmaitra

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yes, I have seen that and possibly your anonymous reply to that post which is pathetic ... your obsession of calling some soldiers as mercenaries.. ... take a break.

Tell me why ordinance factories can not be manned by all retired soldiers ... the officers of OVB can be all Service officer on lateral induction or Short Service Officers..

All will serve till 60 and problems of OROP will be sorted out... Ha
I am not going to waste my time defending your misrepresentation of what I said. The definition of mercenary will not change to satisfy your ego. So, believe what you want.

I am not against lateral induction. My point was also not connected to lateral induction. My point was quite different.

You have not written anything that addresses the points I have raised, so it is unclear why you even quoted me.

Troll alerts ! troll alert !

Hijacking the thread as always >> By Moderator !!! Ha Ha Ha ...
So you failed to address my points. Got it.
 
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Bhadra

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  • Government Panics as Ex-Servic...

    http://www.thecitizen.in/NewsDetail.aspx?Id=4774&The/Forgotten/Secular/And/Feminist/Fight/In/West/Asia
    http://www.thecitizen.in/NewsDetail.aspx?Id=4855&Saudi/Women/to/Vote/for/the/First/Time




              • Certainly no begging bowl this: demand for one rank, one pension intensifies

                CHANDIGARH: One was always under the impression that promises are broken only in love affairs and matrimonial alliances, and governments do not usually break promises, especially when these are given solemnly and especially to the armed forces. However, the Prime Minister in his recent broadcast to the nation has done just that. No doubt he made promises but qualified them with three imponderables, viz. ‘complexities’, ‘funding constraints’ and ‘no time frame’. This has virtually taken back the issue of grant of One Rank One Pension (OROP) to square one. He also obliquely hinted that since his government would be in the saddle for five years, where was the hurry?

                This has rightly left the armed forces fuming, to put it mildly.

                OROP, like the elusive Saraswati River continues to be invisible. The demand for OROP is legitimate and does not deserve this kind of procrastination. The political leadership must not treat the most apolitical segment of our polity in this manner. They are not footballs, but honourable and loyal persons of our society. It is sad that they are being made fools of in this manner. The more disturbing aspect is that it is being done, by a government that was expected to have a mind of its own and not be overly influenced by highly biased civil officials, who never lose a chance to put down the military. It is sad that the political-bureaucratic nexus is back in power, much to the detriment of the nation.

                The conviction among military personnel now is that the touted ‘change’ that was the slogan that brought this government to power was only an election ploy and there is no difference between this and the previous governments.

                Let us now talk about OROP, an issue hanging fire not because it is complex, but because all governments past and present only listen to biased advisors and refuse to apply their minds. They also feel that the forces, even when fuming can be taken for granted and can always be brought around by sweet words and minimum sops. May I in all humility state that the time of both ‘talk and sops’ is now over, for the level of the water has now risen up to dangerously high levels.

                Former Prime Minister Manmohan Singh had publicly stated “I am personally in favour of OROP but bureaucrats do not want OROP to be given to the Defence Services…” Obviously, the power to take decisions continues to be with our ubiquitous bureaucrats, even though we now have a government that has an overwhelming mandate and is well ensconced in power. Political leaders must consult their bureaucratic advisors, for they get paid for this, but they must inform the nation why they are unable or unwilling to take their own decisions, after getting all briefings.

                OROP is hanging fire, not because of any so-called ‘complexities’ or ‘inadequacies of funds’ but because the bureaucrats have been prevailing, irrespective of which political entity(s) was in power and political leaders of all hues and colours did not think it necessary or important enough to find out the reasons for these absurd excuses.

                It will serve no purpose in repeating what all has already been stated by many, including by serving Chiefs, albeit somewhat cautiously, who probably have their own reason to remain in such a muted mode!

                The ‘gold standard’ of OROP in recent years has been the recommendations of the Koshiyari Committee. The political leadership has no doubt been briefed about it, but perhaps the substantive issues were glossed over, knowing the bureaucracy’s penchant for not coming out with the whole truth. I therefore need to briefly mentioning them.

                The Committee, headed by Koshiyari (a BJP MP), had been set up by the UPA Government in 2010 and its findings were also presented during the tenure of UPA in December 2011. Thereafter, it remained in cold storage, till it was resurrected by the UPA, more to earn political brownie points when they saw the writing on the political wall just prior to the General Elections of 2014, than any love for the military! Be that as it may, it is important to revisit some of the profound recommendations of that important Committee.

                The Koshiyari Committee is on record to state that – “…There is merit in the demand for One Rank One Pension by Armed Forces Personnel; otherwise the matter would not have been considered time and again by various committees of the Government and Central Pay Commissions. It could have been rejected once and for all and principle of judicature would have been applied to this demand…..”

                The definition of OROP, based on the Koshiyari Committee Report, was firmed in as “Same rank, same years of qualifying service, same amount of pension, irrespective of date of retirement”. It was accepted by the Defence Minister of UPA and was reiterated by the Defence Minister of the BJP led NDA Government. So, where is the ‘complexity’ Sir?

                Before we come to the funding, the second issue that seems to be troubling the government, let me highlight that we are talking about nearly 50 lakh veterans; disabled personnel (some due to wounds sustained in war and others due to the harsh nature of military service); and ‘Veer Naris’ (widows of military martyrs). To this, nearly 70,000 personnel are added every year. I hope it gives a fair idea of human lives who have a major stake in the decisions about the OROP.

                In 2011, the Koshiyari Committee had stated that the financial impact would be as follows:-

                · Initial (including payment of arrears) = Rs 3000 crore.
                · Annual recurring expenditure = Rs 1300 crore, distributed as under:
                . JCOs & Other Ranks = Rs 1065 crore.
                . Officers = Rs 235 crore.

                (Please note that that it is not an officer-oriented issue, as many ignorant persons assume. This would be clear from the distribution between Officers and our jawans, as given above!).

                The bureaucracy, perhaps with a view to scuttle the issue and misguide the political leadership, kept coming up with different figures, till finally the figure is more or less fixed at Rs 9100 crore.

                Can the country not afford this?

                At this stage, it is pertinent to quote from the Vote on Account speech by the Finance Minister while allocating funds for the Financial Year 2014-15 in Parliament, where he stated: “I am happy to announce that the Government has accepted the principle of OROP for the Defence Forces. This decision will be implemented prospectively from the FY 2014-15”! Jai Ho!!

                While concluding, may I suggest that the government takes the date 31 July 2015, articulated in the last of his flip-flop pronouncements by Defence Minister Parrikar, as the last date for implementing OROP? If the government cannot do so, please announce that this government is unable to grant OROP so that the issue gets a final burial and not dragged around till the cows come home!

                (The writer is a former Vice Chief of Army Staff)​
 

pmaitra

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Rahul Bedi? Hmmm. Isn't this guy who is the India correspondent of Jane's?

Looks like he is doing his job adding fuel to fire.

The government is not panicking. The government is just fine. A lot of things will happen as India one by one trashes imports.

Get the popcorn.
 

Samar Rathi

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Bhadra

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Centre’s stand on OROP is confusing and contradictory
Karan Thapar
Updated: Aug 22, 2015 23:58 IST


Centre’s stand on OROP is confusing and contradictory
  • Karan Thapar
    |
  • Updated: Aug 22, 2015 23:58 IST

Ex-servicemen during a rally in support of their demand for 'one rank one pension' scheme at Jantar Mantar in Delhi. (HT Photo)



I know governments often get it wrong but what Mr Modi has achieved with One Rank One Pension (OROP) is truly breath-taking, if that’s the appropriate adjective.

In one swoop he’s damaged the credibility of his promises, offended his most loyal block of supporters, strained civil-military relations, demoralised serving soldiers, dangerously politicised the ex-servicemen’s movement and added considerably to the distrust we feel for politicians. I’d say bravo if the outcome wasn’t so distressing.

Consider how badly the government has handled matters. On August 14, the defence minister claimed there were “technical difficulties” finalising OROP without specifying what they are. In itself that was perplexing. It underlined the doubts ex-servicemen already harbour.

Then, asked when OROP would be announced he said it would happen during the government’s tenure before covering his tracks by adding the word soon.

A few hours later the finance minister made matters worse. He revealed that “the arithmetical translation” of OROP is proving problematic “because several interpretations are being given”. What this made clear is the government doesn’t have an agreed definition. Or if it does, it no longer stands by it. For ex-servicemen this was tantamount to betrayal.

Finally, the next morning, on Independence Day, the PM confirmed the worst. He said “there is no resolution (as) yet”. Even though he subsequently added “we are in the final stages of deciding” he’d said enough to convince ex-servicemen no early end was in sight.

No wonder there was an explosion of ex-servicemen’s anger. In fact, the government’s ham-handedness corroborated their belief it’s not just unconcerned about ex-servicemen’s feelings but contemptuous of them.

Now the one thing politicians know is how to explain problems and convince people they have the answer. Mr Modi and his ministers failed on both counts.

If OROP as promised is difficult to deliver — and, I guess, that’s what the government believes — this should have been admitted transparently, directly and to all the important leaders of the different ex-servicemen’s movements.

Mr Modi should have met them, explained why he can’t fulfil his original promise and apologised. Then he should have asked for support for the best he can offer.

Such honesty would have won them over. Ex-servicemen don’t want to beggar the nation for their benefit. After all, men who are prepared to die to protect India would not choose to live at the cost of the country.

But the government chose a very different path. It continued to insist it would fulfil OROP whilst its ministers confused and contradicted that commitment with their ill-considered statements. This annoyed ex-servicemen and left them feeling deceived.

But how big a problem is the money problem? Is it really insuperable? In fact, it’s the difference between what ex-servicemen believe is the cost of the defence minister’s promised OROP and what, reportedly, the finance minister insists is the actual amount. I’m told it’s around Rs 4,000 crore.

Now is that really too much for the Indian exchequer to bear? If farmers can be given loan waivers of Rs 70,000 crore why is this excessive for ex-servicemen? Remember, we’re talking of upto 4.5 million people. Add their families and the figure could rise five times.

Finally, what’s the government offering?

If I’m correct, they want to implement OROP with reference to 2011 not 2014, backdate payments to January 1, 2015 rather than April 1, 2014 and renege on the annual rise stipulated by the 6th Pay Commission for 2014-15 and 2015-16. I call that pathetic penny-pinching. Do you disagree?

The views expressed by the author are personal
 

Bhadra

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One Rank One Pension correcting the 'distortions'

By Air Marshal SY Savur


One Rank One Pension has been misinterpreted by many to give a distorted picture of what exactly the Ex-Servicemen (20 lakh of them) and the widows (6 lakh of them) of ESM are raising their voices and resorting to means that normally are not their methods of drawing attention to grievances and seeking redressal.

What is OROP? Simply defined by the Parliamentary Committee headed by BJP MP Koshyiari is that an ex-serviceman of one rank (say Havildar) with similar years of service (say 20 years) should draw the same amount of Pension (say Rs 11000 per month) whether he retired from the Army in 1973 (3rd Pay Commission) or 1986 (4th Pay Commission) or 1996 ( 5th Pay Commission) as the one drawing pension (say Rs 13500) if he retired after 1.1.2006 ( 6th Pay Commission).

Now debunking some myths/distortions of truth


Distortion 1: OROP is not in the terms and conditions of service for defence forces when they opted to enrol.

Facts: Who decides the terms and conditions?

Obviously, the Government of India.

Was OROP decided by the Govt of India?
Obviously Yes again. The UPA Govt declared OROP in the Parliament and included in the interim budget 2014-15. The BJP led NDA Govt reiterated OROP in the Budget 2014-15. Therefore, there is Govt sanctity for OROP and the consequent change in terms and conditions.

Ex-Bureaucrats may wish to refresh their minds that Non-Functional Upgradation (NFU) was by Govt approval but not in their terms and conditions of service before 2009. Many bureaucrats are drawing NFU without qualms because it is now in their terms and conditions of service.

Distortion 2: OROP will balloon in subsequent years and the State cannot bear the cost.

Facts: Defence Pension budget includes the pensions of Defence civilians.


Secondly, if any one cared to look at the PCDA (Pensions) website and circulars 500 and 502, they would have seen tables of pension for each rank commencing at 15 years of service and attaining a plateau at 28 and above years of service. It will be the same in OROP.

The above example of the Havildar (or any other ESM of any other rank and years of service) would show that even with a 3% annual increment, he will attain the top of the table and thereafter financial effect will be ZERO.

Thirdly, Rs 8300 crore (of which Rs 6500 crore will be for Other Ranks) may be applicable only to those who have not yet reached the ceiling and in year 2015-16, the 3% increase may be over Rs 8590 crore not Rs 20, 000 crore or Rs 22, 000 crore.

Our learned FM is reported to have stated that OROP of Rs 8300 crore cannot be paid because of "resource crunch." ESM are aghast that such economy with the truth hides some truths: - Revenue foregone i.e gifted away, is to the tune of Rs 5.89 lakh crore in 2014-15 crores (nearly seven thousand times the OROP), the Public Sector Banks have been "re-capitalised" (bailed out from their bad decisions to lend to those who will not return the loans) to the extent of Rs 20, 000 crore (250% the amount required for OROP). Where is the resource crunch?

Distortion 3: Arithmetic and Technicalities.

Facts: Arithmetic first. How did the tables in PCDA (P) Circulars 500 and 502 come about? Some formula was used and pensions were enhanced and improved in Jan 2013. So the same formula with a bit of tweaking would produce the OROP tables without any complex arithmetic.

Technicalities would be sorted out by a wise person by looking at payments by CGDA/Naval Pay office/AFCAO in 2013-2014 and a solution would be obvious if a similarly ranked ESM with similar years of service drawing as pension from 1.4.2014 is compared to those to whom Circulars 500 and 502 are applicable.

Finally, Distortion 4: For those who preach patience ("you waited so many years in the UPA"),

Facts: Please do not conveniently forget that after 1973 when the OROP had its genesis, we have had the Janata, the United Front, the Atal Vajpayee Governments too who prevaricated when it came to decide on OROP.

Secondly, it is unfair and unjust to equate their political leaning against the ESM requesting the "we have a majority Govt" to tell them a "will implement OROP by date" without asking themselves why they need annual increases for doing the same job.

So, whether it was desperate and failed election ploy of UPA-II or the unthinking bravado of the present Government, it is pay up time.


(Air Marshal SY Savur was commissioned in 1966 in the transport aircraft stream of the General Duties (Pilots) later Flying (Pilots) Branch of the Indian Air Force. He retired in 2006 as the Air Officer Commanding-in-Chief of Southern Air Command. He has been decorated by the President with Ati Vishist Seva Medal (AVSM) for distinguished service of an exceptional order and the Param Vishist Seva Medal (PVSM) for distinguished service of the most exceptional order.)




http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/articleshow/48584328.cms?utm_source=contentofinterest&utm_medium=text&utm_campaign=cppst
 
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Bhadra

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How good times can end
OROP can be a turning point. A nationalist leader cannot alienate those who defend the country
Written by Omkar Goswami | Updated: August 21, 2015 5:33 am





Your finance minister shall tell you that it will cost a fair amount. It does. The budget for 2015-16 earmarked Rs 54,500 crore for defence pensions. (Illustration by C R Sasikumar)
Dear prime minister,

This letter is a bit of history and some unsolicited advice — both suggesting how quickly good times can come to an end.

In December 1984, Rajiv Gandhi swept the Lok Sabha elections. In the first phase, the Congress won an unprecedented 404 out of 514 seats; and another 10 in the Assam and Punjab Lok Sabha elections held in 1985. Such a feat had never happened in the history of Indian elections, and has not been repeated since. The nation gave a young man an incredible mandate to lead.

In July 1985, Rajiv Gandhi signed the Punjab Accord with the Akali Dal. Independence Day 1985 saw an agreement being signed with the All-Assam Students Union (AASU). On December 28, 1985 Rajiv Gandhi delivered a brilliant speech at the Brabourne Stadium, Mumbai on the occasion of the Congress’s centenary celebration. It was as good as any of your best oration. I quote:

“We are imprisoned by narrow, domestic walls of religion, language, caste and region, blocking out the clear view of a resurgent nation… Our legislatures do not set standards for others… A convenient conscience compels individuals to meander from ideology to ideology seeking power, influence and riches. Political parties twist their tenets, enticed by opportunism… We have government servants who do not serve but oppress the poor and the helpless, police who do not uphold the law but shield the guilty, tax collectors who do not collect taxes but connive with those who cheat the state, and whole legions whose only concern is their private welfare at the cost of society. They have no work ethic, no feeling for the public cause, no involvement in the future of the nation, no comprehension of national goals, no commitment to the values of modern India…”

He called the Congress leadership “self-perpetuating cliques who thrive by invoking the slogans of caste and religion and by enmeshing the living body of the Congress in their net of avarice…” And ended with:

“We obey no discipline, no rule, follow no principle of public weal. Corruption is not only tolerated but even regarded as the
hallmark of leadership.”

It seemed that nothing could go wrong.

Yet things soured. It started with the Shah Bano case — that of an elderly divorced Muslim woman whose husband had stopped paying alimony. The Supreme Court delivered an outstanding verdict in her favour. However, Rajiv Gandhi developed cold feet because he feared losing Muslim support. His government introduced the Muslim Women (Protection of Rights on Divorce) Bill in February 1986, which became law in May 1986. It removed Muslim personal law from the Code of Criminal Procedure and denied even destitute Muslim divorced women the right to alimony from their former husbands. Rajiv Gandhi’s days of modernity had ended.

Then came the Italian businessman, Ottavio Quattrocchi, his closeness to Rajiv and Sonia Gandhi, and how since 1981 he was winning one fertiliser plant deal after the other for his company, Snamprogetti. This was true. During 1981-87, it won orders for setting up at least 20 fertiliser plants, most of which were in the public sector, as well as for ONGC’s gas pipeline at Hazira. Quattrocchi’s powers, the rumour mill said, were not only in winning bids, but also in getting Rajiv Gandhi’s government to punish those who placed orders on others.

Then came Bofors. In March 1986, Bofors AB of Sweden won a $285 million contract to supply 410 field howitzers. Soon, Chitra Subramaniam started obtaining detailed information on bribes that Bofors paid, which started coming out in The Hindu. Suddenly, it was all about the Bofors bribe and Quattrocchi. Amounting to Rs 64 crore, it was then the largest case of graft in India’s post-1947 history and embarrassed Rajiv Gandhi to no end. Amidst the Bofors scandal, his Doon School friend, Arun Singh, quit as minister of state for defence.

And V.P. Singh was thrown out, only to create other problems.

The worst was Rajiv Gandhi’s ill-advised military involvement in Sri Lanka. Lured into it by Junius Jayewardene, the Indian Peace Keeping Force lost some 1,200 soldiers before finally pulling out in 1990.

Thus, five years after the historic mandate, the young leader lost more seats than he won. The Congress won 414 Lok Sabha seats in 1984. It won only 197 in 1989. The number of seats it lost, 217, was 20 more than it won. In India, it doesn’t take long for the worm to turn.

Prime minister, your turning point may have arrived. It has to do with our armed forces. When we are supposed to be achieving over 7 per cent growth, with benign inflation, better revenue collections and Brent crude oil prices at less than $50 per barrel, no one can afford to ignore the demand of one rank, one pension (OROP). Especially not someone who is seen to be such a nationalist as you.

Your finance minister shall tell you that it will cost a fair amount. It does. The budget for 2015-16 earmarked Rs 54,500 crore for defence pensions. Full implementation of OROP would raise this by another Rs 18,000 crore. Maybe Rs 20,000 crore. But this is not an issue of money. You cannot alienate those who have defended our country; and the families of those who died for it. Ask Arun Jaitley to cut other subsidies; prune non-plan expenditure; dramatically increase the snail’s pace of disinvestment; and bring in the GST from April 2016. But don’t delay OROP.

Think of Param Vir Chakra awardees like Joginder Singh and Shaitan Singh who died fighting the Chinese in 1962; Abdul Hamid and Ardeshir Tarapore who perished on the western front in 1965; Albert Ekka, Nirmal Jit Singh Sekhon and Arun Khetrapal who laid down their lives in 1971; Ramaswamy Parameshwaran who died in Sri Lanka in 1987; or Manoj Pandey, Yogendra Singh Yadav, Sanjay Kumar and Vikram Batra who fell defending Kargil in 1999. You cannot alienate the families of these men and of others who are ready to fight and defend their nation — people who are far braver than you or I will ever be.

You estrange the best of this land at your peril.

The writer is founder and chairperson of CERG Advisory Private Limited

Written by Omkar Goswami Updated: Aug 21, 2015, 5:33 About Author Omkar GoswamiThe author is the founder and chairperson of CERG Advisory Private Limited, is author of ‘Corporat - See more at: http://indianexpress.com/article/opinion/columns/how-good-times-can-end/#sthash.JPMEXGvV.dpuf


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http://indianexpress.com/article/opinion/columns/how-good-times-can-end/#sthash.JPMEXGvV.dpuf
 

Simple_Guy

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Minister's daughter joins protest by ex-servicemen

Mrinalini Singh, wife of a serving Army officer and daughter of General VK Singh, joined the protest at Jantar Mantar here this morning.

Asked if her father, Minister of State for External Affairs Singh, had approved of her joining the protest since he is serving in the government, she said, "I have not sought his permission and neither do I need his permission."

She said she had come straight from Hisar in Haryana "because I feel for the cause. A few years down the line, I will also become the wife of an ex-serviceman."

She added that she has full faith in Prime Minister Narendra Modi who has promised the OROP.

"Our previous governments have been promising to do something. This government looks committed towards fulfilling it. So I hope it fulfills it," Mrinalini said.
 

Bhadra

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Pretty strong arguments from the other side of the OROP debate :

Avuy Shukla : THE BITTER TRUTH ABOUT OROP
http://hillpost.in/2015/08/the-bitter-truth-about-orop/104013/






--------------------

Any comments ???
OROP: Where Is The Bitterness?

By Maj Gen S.G.Vombatkere (Retd)

23 August, 2015
Countercurrents.org

Veterans' peaceful and dignified agitation including relay fast for OROP at Jantar Mantar has crossed the 2-month mark. The ill-conceived police action against demonstrating Veterans on August 14 raised nation-wide condemnation and media attention, and caused two Veterans to start an indefinite fast. Veterans hold PM Narendra Modi along with his cabinet of Defence, Home and Finance ministers accountable, while on the opposite side, some persons are stating obstacles to OROP.

One such is Mr.Avay Shukla, in his article titled “The Bitter Truth About OROP”, which raises the following main points, namely, the premise of OROP is “inherently flawed”, OROP “cannot be limited to the armed forces only”, and OROP is “neither fair nor possible”.

Credibility and justice of OROP

In raising the first point, he argues that Generals and specified Lt Gen appointments (and their equivalent ranks in the navy and air force) were, over the years, co-opted by bureaucrats' “sleight of hand” into accepting the so-called Apex Scale, thus treating OROP – a decades-old demand – for all other faujis casually and without serious opposition or backing down when confronted, thus enabling bureaucrats in MoD to keep denying OROP by different strategems like “granting rank pay” but deducting it from basic salary which dictates pension fixation, and ensuring that successive Central Pay Commissions (CPCs) ensured civilians' salary advantage.

It is true that Generals and specified Lt Gen appointments (and their equivalent ranks in the navy and air force) are in the Apex Scale, and their pensions are automatically adjusted upwards as every Pay Commission makes provisions for Apex Scales to keep bureaucrats comfortable. It is also true that these retired gentlemen, to their discredit (with one or two notable exceptions), have not backed OROP for the rest of the armed forces until very recently. The Defence top brass over the years are certainly to blame for succumbing to the blandishments of scheming “babus”, and not pursuing OROP to make it available to the rest of the Fauj. But in no manner does that diminish the credibility or the justice of Veterans' OROP demand, as explained below.

Serving the nation

Mr.Avay Shukla writes: “Extending OROP to just the defence forces is neither fair, nor possible. It is not fair because, emotive claims apart, they are not the only ones serving the nation – the primary school teacher in a Naxal village in Dantewada is also doing so, the coal miner spending twelve hours every day in the pitch darkness of a flooded mine in Jharia is also doing so, the fireman rushing into a burning building in a Mumbai slum is also doing so.”

Regarding fairness, Shukla is quite right in saying that teachers, coal miners, firemen etc., all serve the nation. However, Veterans have never claimed that they are the “only ones serving the nation”, and Shukla saying so is unwarranted. However, what Veterans have been saying is that (1) the army (here this means all three Services) Jawan serves until he is only 35-37 years of age, after which he is compulsorily retired, (2) he serves in areas distant from family and community, (3) he serves with hardship and risk under a necessarily rigid, even harsh, code of discipline and conduct of military law, (4) he is denied the freedom of expression and of association by law, and most importantly, (5) he cannot refuse to obey orders even if it means risk to his life or permanent disability, or regarding transfer, posting or deployment, or being refused leave. Thus the Jawan, who numerically comprises about 85% of the army, is especially disadvantaged vis a vis a teacher, coal miner, fireman, etc., all of whom undoubtedly have the disadvantages of their professions, but not this combination of disadvantages.

The advantages that a Jawan enjoys which a civilian does not, are: ration, military clothing, railway warrant for travel on leave, and canteen facility. And he gets these only for the 17 years of service, in postings which involve physical hardship and risk. He is also entitled to canteen facility after retirement, and the advantage is limited to exemption of excise duty on a limited range of consumer goods that he can afford on his meagre pension. However, civilians paid from defence estimates enjoy canteen facilities.

At this point, Shukla may do well to think why it is that the army is called out in aid of civil power (for which there is constitutional provision) for controlling riots, containing law & order situations, flood-cyclone-earthquake disaster relief, rail-air accident relief, rescuing little children fallen into borewells, etc., when there are so many central and state civil servants including the police, who all claim that they serve the nation every bit as much as the Jawan. Could it be because the Jawan is simply more reliable than his civilian government counterpart?

In this connection, a report titled “Democracy in India: A Citizens’ Perspective”, is revealing. It states: ”As in 2005, political parties were the least trusted political institutions, and the police the least trusted unelected institution. Trust in Parliament, while low, rose between 2005 and 2013, while the Army continued to be the most trusted institution. The civil service was perceived as the most corrupt, more so than local, State and Central governments“. [Ref.1]. Thus, citizens' opinion in relative terms, of the trustworthiness of the institutions of government, specifically, the political parties, the police, the army (meaning, of course, the Armed Forces) and the civil service (bureaucracy), is unequivocal. Shukla, himself a retired Apex Scale bureaucrat, would fully appreciate its import.

Salary and pension – soldier and civilian

Compare the Jawan with a central government employee. Consider Jawan-A who joined military service in 1970 when he was aged 18-years. He retired in 1987 on attaining age of 35-years. A Group-D central government employee, Shri-C, also joined government service in 1970 at age 21-years, but while Jawan-A was compulsorily retired in 1987, Shri-C continued in service and retired in 2009 at age 60-years. Thus Shri-C was able to receive salary between 1987 and 2009, upgraded by CPCs in the intervening years, while Jawan-A, compulsorily retired in 1987, continued with a basic pension fixed in 1987, which was not upgraded by subsequent CPCs. It is extremely likely that Shri-C would have been promoted to a higher grade and drawn higher salary at retirement and consequently higher basic pension.

If Jawan-A had not been compulsorily retired when he was aged 35-years, he would have continued serving and drawn salary until he was aged 60-years. (Incidentally, the CRPF policeman continues to serve until age 57-years, and the Home Ministry is reported to be contemplating enhancing it to age 60-years to provide additional benefit of 3-years salary and consequent pension). Thus Jawan-A is disadvantaged relative to Shri-C.

Shukla would probably argue that Jawan-A and Shri-C both joined their respective services voluntarily. While that is quite true, it obfuscates the disparity in the conditions of military service of Jawan-A and civilian service of Shri-C, and especially the effects of failure of either on national security. It is the Jawans' disadvantage which justifies linking Jawans' past pensions with present pensions/salaries. Shukla, with blithe ignorance of facts, fails to recognize this and alleges that OROP is “inherently flawed”.

Salary and pension – soldier and soldier

However, the idea of OROP is primarily connected with pension disparity within the Fauj. Noting that more than 85% of all military pensioners are Jawans, let us compare one Jawan with another who has the same length of military service but joined service later. Jawan-A who joined military service at age 18-years in, say, 1970, would retire at age 35-years in 1987, and his basic pension would be fixed according to the CPC in vogue in 1987.

Now consider Jawan-B who joined military service at age 18-years in 1990 and retired in 2007 after 17 years service at age 35-years. His basic pension would be fixed according to 6CPC, and his basic pension would be substantially higher than Jawan-A's. Thus Jawan-A is disadvantaged with respect to Jawan-B, even though he had the same length of military service. This disparity is huge and unfair, and is the primary reason for OROP, which simply means: “Uniform pension for military personnel retiring in the same rank with the same length of service irrespective of their date of retirement, and any future enhancement in the rates of pension be automatically passed on to past pensioners”.

This disadvantage does not occur among civilians because they all serve upto age 60-years and basic pension is fixed at retirement, and therefore OROP is a concept limited to the Armed Forces.

The police & the military

The comparison drawn by Shukla between the police and the military in regard to OROP needs to be addressed in some detail. Here the comparison is between the soldier and the policeman in central government service. At the outset, it is necessary to note that the life of a policeman is undoubtedly tough, even while the life of the soldier is additionally risky and subject to stringent legal action in case of non-performance of assigned duties.

The State Police are directly responsible to their respective State administrations for maintenance of law & order, regulating traffic, etc., and protection to state civil authority in implementation of state's policies and programs. Thus State Police under the control of the state's Home Ministry, are the first level of protection for the law-abiding citizen. When situations and security issues exceed the capability or capacity of State Police, the state calls for central police, known as Central Armed Police Forces (CAPFs), which come under the union Home Ministry.

The military (army, navy and air force) or Armed Forces or Defence Forces are meant to “defend the sovereignty and integrity of the nation” against external threat as their primary role. They are called in by state governments “in aid of civil power” in their secondary role, when the state government administration along with its integral police and the CAPFs have failed in their own primary role to cope with law and order situations, and the state government has officially declared an area within the state as “disturbed”. In addition, the military is called for relief operations for flood, cyclone, drought, earthquake, air or rail accident, and children fallen into borewells. This is because the state government is unable, incapable or incompetent to handle situations calling for discipline, method, planning, courage and ability to bear hardship and risk. When the Armed Forces engage in their secondary role, there can be no slackening of their primary role of border defence against external threat. Thus, the Armed Forces are quite literally the “last bastion”, the ultimate bulwark, the instrument of last resort, for the civilian administration at state or centre.

When the Armed Forces fail due to political-cum-military failure, as in 1962 against Chinese aggression, national sovereignty and stature receive a body blow, and there is deep public concern and anguish. But when CAPFs fail or are inadequate, as they unfortunately often are, the Armed Forces are called in to retrieve the situation.

Apples and oranges

It is now well known that heads of the CAPFs had represented to the union Ministry of Home Affairs that their rank and file would be demoralized if OROP was sanctioned for the Defence Forces. They have represented that their troops face similar dangers as the Defence Forces and undergo similar conditions. In other words, they were equating the CAPFs with the Defence Forces.

But in fact, there is no comparison between these two forces because their roles, service conditions, deployment and command structure are different. It must be emphasized that the need for CAPFs is inescapable just as the nation cannot do without the Defence Forces. Also, this is not to say that CAPFs have no physical hardship or risk, but to emphasize their difference, particularly early retirement ages of Jawans, NCOs, JCOs and officers. (The CAPF policeman being referred to as “jawan” is a gross misnomer, because he serves until age 57-years, long after he has lost his “jawani”, while the soldier retires as a jawan at age 35-37 years). Thus, comparing Armed Forces with CAPFs is like comparing apples with oranges – both are forces which are armed, both are essential, but they are different.

Briefly, delay in government's implementation of OROP for military Veterans cannot be justified because of a similar demand from CAPFs or any other quarter. The legitimacy of OROP for Veterans cannot be diminished by spurious “me-too” claims for OROP.

OROP is possible

Shukla writes: “Extending OROP to just the defence forces is neither fair, nor possible....“ The “fairness” issue of OROP is dealt with in foregoing paragraphs. Inasmuch as the “possible” issue of OROP, there is no shortage of finance to implement OROP for military Veterans. Considering the huge waiver of NPAs of big-business, “revenue foregone” in every budget, tax concessions to SEZs, self-granted salary hikes to parliamentarians and state legislators, etc., the plea of shortage of funds making OROP not possible, is nothing short of laughable.

However, what is certainly in shortage is justice to Veterans by non-implementation of OROP, when the Koshiyari Committee appointed by Parliament has agreed to the validity of OROP, the Supreme Court has agreed to its justice, and successive governments have agreed to its provision. That is, the legislative, the judiciary and the executive – the three pillars of our Constitution – have agreed to the Veterans' OROP demand.

Conclusion

With ready access to social media, the OROP issue is being closely followed by serving soldiers all over the country. Continued denial of its implementation is affecting the morale of serving soldiers, since they will be Veterans sooner or later. The PM's inaction and indecisiveness on OROP bodes ill for the security of the nation, even while Pakistan and China observe the deteriorating situation with glee, and “The Bitter Truth About OROP” is being discussed in “Pakistan Defence” http://**********/threads/the-bitter-truth-about-orop.392918. PM Modi's much-vaunted political savvy is in question.

Reference

1. Many have faith in unelected bodies, but India values dissent“; The Hindu, New Delhi, August 8, 2015; http://www.thehindu.com/news/nation...s-but-india-values-dissent/article7513414.ece

[NOTE FOR INFORMATION. The CAPFs are (#) Central Reserve Police Force (CRPF), (#) Indo Tibetan Border Police (ITBP), (#) Border Security Force (BSF), (#) Central Industrial Security Force (CISF), and (#) Assam Rifles, under the union Home Ministry, all constituted under separate acts of Parliament. Their role is maintenance of law & order and internal security (CRPF), protection against illegal entry and smuggling, and early warning of enemy action (ITBP & BSF), protection of industrial installations (CISF), and including in the border areas].

Major General S.G. Vombatkere, VSM, retired in 1996 as Additional DG Discipline & Vigilance in Army HQ AG's Branch. He holds a PhD degree in Structural Dynamics from I.I.T, Madras. He is Adjunct Associate Professor of the University of Iowa, USA, in international studies. With over 400 published papers in national and international journals and seminars, his current area of interest is strategic and development-related issues.

E-mail: [email protected]
 

pmaitra

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I want to ask a question. Did Modi promise OROP? What did he say exactly? Can anyone quote him verbatim?

There is a technical fault in assuming that the Parliamnent has "agreed." The job of the Parliament is not to "agree," but pass a bill into a law, so that we know that the Parliament really agrees.

  • I have not seen anybody oppose OROP. It is safe to say everyone, in principle supports it.
  • It also appears that it is simply not feasible, no matter how much one might wish.
  • There has to be a policy evolved to ensure some kind of employment to people who are discharged at an early age. More positions may be created in law enforcement, fire brigades, and a possible Emergency Affairs or Disaster Management Department under the Home Ministry, where ex-servicemen can be employed.

We need solutions that are feasible.

One thing to note here is what other countries do. I have seen people who serve and then go back into civilian life, and get a job, or start a business. A hefty one time monetary award should be considered. This could be one thing that is worth exploring.

The other thing is to bring about conscription, i.e., mandatory one year service for every male. To water down this suggestion, one can suggest mandatory participation in NCC for every male.
 

warrior monk

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OROP should have been implemented by NDA but I think we are missing the elephant in the room THE 14th FINANCE COMMISSION TAX DEVOLUTION RECOMMENDATION .
Modi Govt did the biggest TAX DEVOLUTION since independence , it increased from 32 % to 42% by giving extra 2000000 crore to states which reduced centre's fiscal space .
Jaitley probably did this to keep the states happy to get support for THE GST BILL but alas congress scuttled it .
GST bill will increase our GDP growth by 2 % only if congress allows it to be passed. Hopefully GST bill gets passed this year and OROP is implemented this year.
 

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I want to ask a question. Did Modi promise OROP? What did he say exactly? Can anyone quote him verbatim?

There is a technical fault in assuming that the Parliamnent has "agreed." The job of the Parliament is not to "agree," but pass a bill into a law, so that we know that the Parliament really agrees.

  • I have not seen anybody oppose OROP. It is safe to say everyone, in principle supports it.
  • It also appears that it is simply not feasible, no matter how much one might wish.
  • There has to be a policy evolved to ensure some kind of employment to people who are discharged at an early age. More positions may be created in law enforcement, fire brigades, and a possible Emergency Affairs or Disaster Management Department under the Home Ministry, where ex-servicemen can be employed.

We need solutions that are feasible.

One thing to note here is what other countries do. I have seen people who serve and then go back into civilian life, and get a job, or start a business. A hefty one time monetary award should be considered. This could be one thing that is worth exploring.

The other thing is to bring about conscription, i.e., mandatory one year service for every male. To water down this suggestion, one can suggest mandatory participation in NCC for every male.

So you wish to discuss technicalities about the role of the parliament ?

The major role of the Parliament is to control every penny the govt spends. Two successive, budgets had made monetary provisions for OROP - is not that? Approving that is "Parliamentary approval" . Ok..

Secondly, there are Parliemtary Committees to examine various issues. The Koshyari Committee was constituted by the Rajya Sabha in March 2011 to go into the genuineness of the demand for grant of ONE RANK ONE PENSION (OROP). The Koshyari Committee after having studied the requirement in detail, strongly recommended grant of OROP to Ex-Servicemen.

Modi on more than three occasions has promised implementation of OROP? What is OROP is as defined by Koshiyari Committee and as accepted by MoD who has the domain knowledge and the controlling ministry.What we see today is that PM approves and Finance Secretary disapproves. What a joke of democracy !!

Some 60 thousands soldiers retire every year. Does GOI recruit so many people per year at class III level where more than 80 per cent soldiers retire ? CAPF recruit only about 25 -30 thousands per annum. So even if all retiring soldiers are pushed into CAPF, stll there would be about 30 thousand left unemployed.

The central Govt policy on reemployment of retired soldiers, JCO and Officers is very unjust and discreminatory. They are fixed at lowest of the scale irrestive of their length of service or their pension is deducted from the new pay as per DOPT letters.

In the scheme of things of the govt, industry and the society, there are skill development and skilled recognition programmes. Even a "Safaiwala" is recognised as skilled but not a gun operator, a radar mechanic, a missile man or a commando. For civilians all those are unskilled jobs - leadership, group skills, motivation, high spirit, dedication, loyality are virtues indian society seems to be not valueing and needing.. For an officer who has taught in War Colleges and higher military education institutions, his experience is not recognised as taeching experiences. Contrary to other societies in the world, thousands of military skills have no place in Indian system.

There are no programmes and incentives for retiring soldiers to acquire profitable industrial skills. Only two ITI are run to cater for such vast numbers of retiring people. And there also they taech them turner and electricians jobs. No schools, college, academic instititution provides reservations to retired soldiers to persue education like all countries in the world do.

Management of this huge numbers so far was under the system of "Mai Baap Sarkaar" where the govt pushed them into oblivion of rural areas with a pittance called pension. As if that was not too bad, the IAS Babus started snatching even that pittance from them, neglected them, shunned them and ensured that they are constantly reminded of their serfdom status and reminded that the Babu was the lord of India.

Servicemen and exservicemen is not a small Statistcal Service of hundreds which can be pushed and roughshoded - that could have been realised. They are significant chunk of society. And in todys world which ruled by twitter, facebook and whatsapp - their interconnectivity and power of unision should have been taken as guaranted. However. this competetive IAS babudom is too immersed in their thier negetive power and not capable of seeing dangers.

This has resulted in a situation which everyone aimed to avoid and never wanted to reach - Politiciasation of soldier !! It could be a nightmare for the controll mechanism of IAS bureacracy. It could be bad for polity, society and the state and for that petty poltician himself. And who has been responsible for it - plainly and simply the mediocre political class incapable of controlling the bureacracy and greedy status hungry IAS led bureacracy who have pushed every one down the drain.

I hope one understands the gravity of it ...

OROP or No OROP this agitation is unstoppable now ...If ten former Chiefs are not heard of and veterans are not the street with their wives and children ... that appears to be begining of a phenomenon.
 
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pmaitra

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@Bhadra,

Let me respond without quoting your post to a few points that you have mentioned.

  • Parliament has to pass a bill into law. When this happens, we can expect action. I am not sure what the meaning of "Parliament agrees" is. I am also not sure what is meant by "Parliamentary approval," but if there is one, then why the protests? Obviously, "Parliamentary approval" does not guarantee implementation of OROP. I am not a law graduate. I will request @sayareakd Sir to kindly advise.
  • I agree that Central Government's policy of re-employment of retired soldiers, JCO and Officers is very unjust. Something has to be done to remedy this unjust policy.
  • It is unfair to accuse the IAS cadre when many top people in the Army are themselves enjoying the fruits of OROP. Self serving policies are not limited any one institution.
  • Your claims that Indian society does not value leadership, group skills, motivation, high spirit, dedication, loyalty, are patently false. Nobody in DFI is unreasonable to make sweeping statements against the Army, Navy, or Air Force. Sweeping statements seem to come only from one disgruntled member.
  • Loyalty is not the sole forté of the armed forces. I have already said. I support OROP in principle. I have to add a caveat. I support OROP for a majority of the soldiers, airmen, sailors, paramilitaries, and police forces, with the exception of those who are sacrificing the interests of the nation by sabotaging indigenous weapons and getting inferior alternatives from abroad. Not only do I not support OROP for these disloyal individuals, I wish that they are chucked out of the several branches of the military altogether, and their pension denied.
  • While in principle I support OROP, I am not convinced it is possible to implement it. If it is possible, then the Central Government should implement it. If it is not possible, then some kind of partial implementation has to be considered.
 

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@Bhadra,

Let me respond without quoting your post to a few points that you have mentioned.

  • Parliament has to pass a bill into law. When this happens, we can expect action. I am not sure what the meaning of "Parliament agrees" is. I am also not sure what is meant by "Parliamentary approval," but if there is one, then why the protests? Obviously, "Parliamentary approval" does not guarantee implementation of OROP. I am not a law graduate. I will request @sayareakd Sir to kindly advise.
  • I agree that Central Government's policy of re-employment of retired soldiers, JCO and Officers is very unjust. Something has to be done to remedy this unjust policy.
  • It is unfair to accuse the IAS cadre when many top people in the Army are themselves enjoying the fruits of OROP. Self serving policies are not limited any one institution.
  • Your claims that Indian society does not value leadership, group skills, motivation, high spirit, dedication, loyalty, are patently false. Nobody in DFI is unreasonable to make sweeping statements against the Army, Navy, or Air Force. Sweeping statements seem to come only from one disgruntled member.
  • Loyalty is not the sole forté of the armed forces. I have already said. I support OROP in principle. I have to add a caveat. I support OROP for a majority of the soldiers, airmen, sailors, paramilitaries, and police forces, with the exception of those who are sacrificing the interests of the nation by sabotaging indigenous weapons and getting inferior alternatives from abroad. Not only do I not support OROP for these disloyal individuals, I wish that they are chucked out of the several branches of the military altogether, and their pension denied.
  • While in principle I support OROP, I am not convinced it is possible to implement it. If it is possible, then the Central Government should implement it. If it is not possible, then some kind of partial implementation has to be considered.

Ha ! every year the budget passed by the parliament is Finance bill which is a law ... where is the doubt in that ? Not a single penny can be taken as tax without law ... it is passed every year ... that is what is the bread and butter of all CAs ... have you ever met one ???

any budgetary provision passed is approval of Parliament ..

Then what is the problem ? Well that is what the veterans are asking ..... Nahin..

Rest all is bunkum ..... after all close to 30 lakh ex-servicemen and another one and a half crore of their dependents are Indian citizens .... that is a huge chunk of our population ...

There are many self serving sympathizers of the poor in our country who want to bring the entire population above poverty lines at the cost of stashing billions in the Swiss banks,,,
Don't we all know that ...... we do
 

pmaitra

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Ha ! every year the budget passed by the parliament is Finance bill which is a law ... where is the doubt in that ? Not a single penny can be taken as tax without law ... it is passed every year ... that is what is the bread and butter of all CAs ... have you ever met one ???

any budgetary provision passed is approval of Parliament ..

Then what is the problem ? Well that is what the veterans are asking ..... Nahin..

Rest all is bunkum ..... after all close to 30 lakh ex-servicemen and another one and a half crore of their dependents are Indian citizens .... that is a huge chunk of our population ...

There are many self serving sympathizers of the poor in our country who want to bring the entire population above poverty lines at the cost of stashing billions in the Swiss banks,,,
Don't we all know that ...... we do
Two things:
  1. We do not have any disagreement as far as OROP is concerned.
  2. I have no control over what the Parliament chooses to do or chooses not to do.
 

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