OROP: Pension promise in peril?

[Ray]

Pension promise in peril?

Military veterans claim babus are thwarting PM Modi's poll pledge of one-rank-one-pension by inflating its cost estimates

Roman emperor Augustus started the tradition of military pensions in 13 BC, when every legionary who had fought 20 years for Rome was guaranteed a pension for-life. It set the bar for modern armies, and independent India continued the British tradition of financially privileging military service until the mid-1970s, when soldiers were paid more than civilian bureaucrats, in service and after retirement. All that changed with the Third Pay Commission, which brought military salaries in line with civil services, and while soldiers have long complained about political control over the military in independent India mutating into bureaucratic control, a row over the NDA's promise for one-rank-one-pension (OROP) for military veterans is raising questions about the government's ability to translate its intent into action.

Fifteen months after Narendra Modi first demanded it immediately after being anointed the BJP's PM candidate, 10 months after the UPA government granted it, five months after NDA's finance minister Arun Jaitley confirmed it and almost two months after the PM told soldiers in Siachen that it was his "destiny that onerank-one pension has been fulfilled", military veterans are questioning why the promise has still not been implemented.

Number games

Put simply, OROP means that every pension-eligible soldier who retires in a particular rank deserves the same pension, irrespective of date of retirement. Currently, soldiers who left the armed forces more recently receive more than those who did earlier, because successive pay commissions hiked salaries. Two days after he was anointed BJP's PM-candidate in September 2013, Modi vehemently supported the OROP demand at a veterans' rally in Rewari. With roughly 12 lakh veterans also constituting a huge vote-bank, UPA government approved the demand in February 2014, and it was reaffirmed by NDA in July, when finance minister Arun Jaitley specifically provisioned Rs 1,000 crore in his 2014-15 budget (within an overall defence pensions budget of Rs 51,000 crore). Yet, it remains stuck in bureaucratic wrangling.

Pension promise in peril? - The Times of India

It will never get resolved so long as the petty minions in the bureaucracy are active like rats in the larder.

Some issue they will throw up that will put the spanner in the works.

The bureaucrat ensure that they are getting the right pension through the cunning handle of 'non functional upgrade' (NFU), applicable to all officers of the All India Group A Services, wherein it is a 'pay promotion' to draw higher pay than their ranks, without actually being promoted. Hence, on retirement get the benefits of the higher rank when actually not promoted to the same.

Only 0.8% officers of the defence forces make it to the rank of Maj Gen after 28 years of service, compared with a much higher rate of civil servants who are eligible to the rank of Joint Secretaries with 19 years of service.

This NFU is OROP for civil servants through the back door is what Maj Navdeep Singh a campaigner says.

This in quotes is what is stated in the TOI print version. (paraphrased)

 

[Kunal Biswas]

In form of Image ..

Thanks.

Good job done.

Didn't know how to copy and paste it.

Further, could you keep a sharp eye out for the helpline the CDA is putting out for queries for those who do not know what is their pension after the Sixth Pay Commission and if they are getting the same.
-Ray

 

[pkroyal]

The BJP Govt is fast running out of options.

No obfuscation of this issue( OROP) is going to be tolerated by the veterans.

The RM has 08 weeks to deliver on this promise ( probably before the Union budget), I guess it could be on 26 January 15.

After comparing ourselves with the world armies we are being given a raw deal.

Let the soldier live with dignity after retirement, the Govt will be well served to remember that the Lion in Winter( old age) is more ferocious than when young.

 

[DingDong]

Bureaucracy might stall the process but it will happen. BJP cannot renegade on poll promises and think of winning another election on nationalist plank.

 

[NSG_Blackcats]

Defense Minister on OROP - from 14:26 min onwards

1. He will try to implement OROP by 31-03-2015, if not than max by July-2015.
3. The amount will be paid from back date and that is 01-04-2014.
5. The back log amount might be paid in installments.
7. There are different figure on expenditure that GoI have to incur. It varies from 600-14000 crore. As per his calculation/assumption GoI might have to incur an additional 8000-9000 crore.
9. Clarified his 80% remark. The 80% was not about pension but satisfaction level. As for him, if he is able to satisfy 80% of retired defense personal and widows than the promise is fulfilled.

 

[sob]

As per reports a few days back Def Ministry is shaving off nearly Rs. 14,500 Crores from the budget of the three forces and this would be going in for the OROP.

I am not able to find the report, somebody had linked it on FB.

Got the report it is from the Telegraph, Kolkata

Part of the reason to re-allocate funds meant for capital purchases under the revenue head is a government decision to implement the demand of military veterans for "one rank one pension" (OROP).

Defence minister Manohar Parrikar, who took over from Jaitley, said in an interview to a news channel this evening that he had estimated the outgo for OROP at Rs 6,000 crore to Rs 8,000 crore. But the controller-general of defence accounts puts it at Rs 14,200 crore.

Link : Rs 13000cr shaved off military weapons outlays

 

[Ray]

There is an interesting point that has been holding up the OROP so far.

The bureaucrats want One Rank, One Pension to be based on the time period that one has held that rank, namely, even if, say A and B, joined the service on the same day, and retired on the same day, the pension would vary, based on how long they held the rank. If A was promoted earlier than B, then A would get a higher pension than B.

The Army states that period in that rank is not material since there are reasons (as I will explain below) wherein A may have been promoted earlier than B, but the pension should be the same.

The Army's argument is based on the fact that JCOs and OR of different Regiments and even different unit have different time slots for promotions, since they are vacancy based of that unit in particular and the Regiment in general.

Therefore, if one, say Hav C, is in a unit where there is a slow promotion profile [since it is based on vacancies and people are not retiring rapidly enough (people leave once their full colour service is over vis a vis some leaving immediately on having enough service to get a pension) ] vis a vis, say Hav D, from another unit where the promotion profile is faster (people leaving immediately on minimum pensionable service), then Hav D is better off getting a higher pension because he would have been promoted earlier, as his some of his seniors would have left the service immediately on attaining minimum pensionable service. Hav C would be the loser for no fault of his just because his seniors did not quit immediately on attaining minimum pensionable service and instead went on till they attained the full colour service of the rank before the vacancy could be created wherein C could be promoted to the rank of Hav.

The sum total is that promotions are vacancy based. It is based on the unit and its vacancy and even in that it is different by the Regiment apart from the unit. There is no All India roster that manages promotions.

An All India roster cannot be done because each Arm and Service have different requirement and different job profile. An Infantry soldier cannot become a Missile technician in the EME.

Further, for the Arms, unit cohesiveness is what builds the camaraderie and understanding of each other which are battle winning factors. If let us say it was based on pure numbers and people could be shifted from one Regiment to another and unit to unit, it would not have an effective battle cohesiveness that is essential when facing death in the battlefield. This is more so because India has a huge armed forces and with a live threat and live confrontations that are continuously ongoing.

 

[ezsasa]

As per reports a few days back Def Ministry is shaving off nearly Rs. 14,500 Crores from the budget of the three forces and this would be going in for the OROP.

I am not able to find the report, somebody had linked it on FB.

Got the report it is from the

Yup I remember the article, as far as my recollection goes, the amount is reduced from weapons purchase and added to improve infrastructure at cantonments and schools for defence children.

 

[Bhadra]

Government will keep its promise of one rank, one pension: Union minister Rajyavardhan Singh Rathore

Rajyavardhan Singh Rathore | Jan 11, 2015, 06.10AM IST

Government will keep its promise of one rank, one pension: Union minister Rajyavardhan Singh Rathore - The Times of India


If social media enhances and expedites reach, it also exposes people twice as fast. I recently came across an online article on 'One Rank, One Pension' (OROP) written by a suave former diplomat-turned-politician, which had little thought and no action behind it. To counter the breakout of Modi sarkar (military lingo for rapid expansion), the self-styled generals of Congress have been scoring countless self goals. As I write, I look up intermittently to skim through the TV news channels, and see the Congress taking the contrarian view on the 'Pakistan boat issue' demonstrating a decade-old mentality -- wait for Delhi to sanction action. Old habits die hard.

That is not how the Indian military and paramilitary have been trained. Being one of the best and most selfless in the world, a warrior's code of conduct is driven by his 'farz' or duty, honour of his 'Paltan', and his nation's 'izzat'. The monthly remuneration can in no way compensate these sacrifices, as a soldier routinely and regularly goes beyond the call of duty for the 'izzat' he holds so dear. And this fact is closest to the heart of the BJP.

BJP has a common thread with the armed forces -- that of the ideology of nation first. Narendra Modi declared his commitment to stand by servicemen, veterans and OROP at a rally in Rewari in 2013. Congress, sensing a potential vote bank did not want to miss the bus so they hurriedly announced OROP and dished out a meagre sum towards it. Therein lies the difference, the uniformed forces are not a vote bank but a value bank for us. Our defence minister went on record, committing to deliver OROP and the finance minister did so in his budget speech. Assurances on the floor of the House are sacrosanct and only in rare circumstances does their completion go a little beyond the financial year. The departments involved in OROP are defence, defence finance, finance and personnel. To get them to speak in one voice and have one view may take time but it will be done. This in itself may lower the satisfaction levels of a few impatient ones and that's when the defence minister spoke of delivering 80% satisfaction he did not say 80% pension. When we have waited for decades, what's a few months more? The armed forces can rest assured that the OROP is perfectly within the credible sights of the PM, FM and 'RM' of this government.



So what's taking time? OROP implies an officer of the same number of years of service and same rank gets the same pension irrespective of the year of retirement. But officers with the same years of service and same rank do not usually get the same salary. This is due to the number of years spent in each rank, or in other words, because of staggered promotion. For example, one colonel could spend more time in the rank of 'colonel' while another colonel may take longer to reach the rank, thus getting less time in the rank of colonel itself. Both may have the same number of total years of military service, but their salary itself will be different.

The one reaching colonel first gets a higher salary. Since pension itself is a derivative of salary, pensions will be different too. There will be thousands of variations in each rank, and we have not even begun counting. This is just one of the many challenges but the government is committed to finding a solution and, without penalising anyone, bringing in a harmonious and simple methodology for calculation of pensions as prescribed in the spirit of OROP. Will my honourable colleagues from the Opposition show some patience and wait for the end of the financial year or will they play spoilsport?

It is in this government that the service chiefs have direct access to the political leadership. In the first 200 days itself, meetings between civil and military leadership far outnumber the total number of meetings held in the last decade of UPA. Protocols are for formal occasions; when the tigers meet, the lambs have no place. Supremacy is of leadership; military and then political, period.

This government has faith in every field commander and soldier to do what's right for the country. Congress weakened the armed forces, reduced fighting capability. Its political indecisiveness and hesitation dulled the sharpness and led to beheadings, embarrassment and lowered morale. In 200 days, critical procurements stuck for the last several years have been cleared. Our responses on the border are with befitting ferocity. War memorial ordered. OROP will be delivered. Modi was also the first PM to celebrate Diwali with soldiers in field.

Congress needs to stop doubting the veracity of the very forces that protect us. They are indeed the wall between heaven and hell. It's thanks to social media that citizens pay rich tributes to our warriors in uniform. And it's from the social media I quote for the benefit of my Congress colleagues: "If you cannot stand behind our troops, feel free to stand in front of them".

 

[indiatester]

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/...ed-Parrikar/articleshow/47314463.cms?from=mdr
'One rank, one pension' cleared: Parrikar

Union Minister for Defence, Shri Manohar Parrikar and the Chief of Army Staff, General Dalbir Singh visiting the Red Horns Division, in Assam. (PTI photo)

PANAJI: The much-awaited "one rank, one pension" (OROP) for the armed forces is likely to be cleared in a few days, defence minister Manohar Parrikar said in Goa on Saturday.

"OROP proposal is in final stage. The defence ministry has approved it and the finance ministry will clear it in a few days," he added.

He said it is the first time that a clear proposal has been sent to finance ministry on OROP.

An estimated Rs 8,000 crore is likely to be allocated by the government to fulfill its commitment to the over 25 lakh ex-servicemen, who have been demanding OROP for several years.

 

[TejasMK3]

http://www.sunday-guardian.com/news/orop-storm-set-to-hit-government

Ex-servicemen's groups are mobilising veterans to launch a nationwide agitation against the Narendra Modi government from 14 June over the non-implementation of One Rank One Pension (OROP) for retired soldiers. The agitation threatens to strike a blow at the heart of the ruling BJP's nationalist politics and fan the very damaging impression that the government is letting down the Indian soldier, widely believed to be a BJP constituency.

Chairman of the Indian Ex-Servicemen's Movement, Major General Satbir Singh (Retired) told The Sunday Guardian that the nationwide agitation would start with a rally at Jantar Mantar, followed by hunger strikes across the country "forever to protest the injustice to the soldier".

"We'll protest like hell. We may even boycott all government functions, including the 26 January Republic Day Parade," thundered Major General Singh. The government got a taste of the military discontent this week, when a 1971 war hero, Wing Commander Suresh Karnik declined to attend a function presided over by Defence Minister Manohar Parrikar at Pune to honour war heroes.

India has 24 lakh ex-servicemen, six-and-a-half lakh widows, and 15 lakh serving military personnel. They command influence and respect in their respective areas.

Realising the political damage this can result in, Prime Minister Narendra Modi took to Twitter on Saturday to address the gathering storm. "On OROP — the Government is committed to OROP & there's no doubt about it," he stated. The problem is that this commitment has been expressed so many times that it now fails to pacify angry veterans.

Only a day earlier, PM Modi's Defence Minister Manohar Parrikar said he was not in a position to specify a time frame for the implementation of OROP, which will ensure equal pension for the same rank and same length of military service. If implemented, it is expected to cost the national exchequer Rs 8,300 crore this year.

“We’ll protest like hell. We may even boycott all government functions, including the 26 January Republic Day Parade,” thundered Major General (Retired) Satbir Singh.

Parrikar confessed that both the Congress and the BJP had promised OROP, without realising the im-plications. "The people who promised earlier (Congress-UPA government) did not understand the OROP problem. They promised OROP, but did not understand the requirement and just allocated Rs 500 crore," he said, conceding that even the BJP was equally culpable. "We did not understand the fine print," he shrugged while addressing a gathering at Mumbai.

The exchequer's worry is that once OROP is conceded to the armed forces, the paramilitary forces will make the same demand.

But the bigger concern is about the political-style agitation by the veterans to press their demands, and the realisation that the in-service military is sympathetic to it. "At a recent public rally in Haryana, the Army chief had assured ex-servicemen of implementation of OROP by April. The government has let down the Army chief and embarrassed him," said Major General Singh, admitting that "in-service military personnel are even more hurt". He said that the OROP movement "reflects their feelings".

Successive regimes so far have not had to contend with the military community being a political factor. But the military has now emerged as a pressure group to demand more, with ex-servicemen being an agitation proxy.

Another big worry is over the fallout of an emotive agitation, like the impact of the reported suicide by a farmer during a recent rally in New Delhi against the Land Bill. There are also fears of violence. But the Ex-Servicemen's Movement dismisses these apprehensions. "Our protest will be disciplined and dignified," it states. But this assurance comes with a warning: "We'll remain disciplined but protest like hell."

 

[Rowdy]

Wonder why they did not protest for 40 years. Why only against modi?

 

[OneGrimPilgrim]

most probably because the expectations, to begin with, were very high with this govt., and in particular, with the leader.

but this is confusing. on one hand the govt. has cleared the proposal and is expecting to pass the OROP plan by this July, and on the other hand these contradicting statements and the protests....!

 

[Rowdy]

most probably because the expectations, to begin with, were very high with this govt., and in particular, with the leader.

but this is confusing. on one hand the govt. has cleared the proposal and is expecting to pass the OROP plan by this July, and on the other hand these contradicting statements and the protests....!

Mostly done by Punjabi AAPtards. i guess.

 

[jackprince]

Wonder why they did not protest for 40 years. Why only against modi?

Actually it easy. Some people have failed to discomfort this govt. over other issues and so they are putting the ex-servicemen to the foray now. Also they wish to take away the actual credit of modi govt for implementing the OROP as all knows it is only a matter of time before it is implemented. Now your guess is as good as mine regarding the interested parties. But it is rather disheartening to see the ex-servicemen not recognising it and maring image of the one govt which as actually taken up this cause seriously.

 

[TejasMK3]

Mostly done by Punjabi AAPtards. i guess.

Actually it easy. Some people have failed to discomfort this govt. over other issues and so they are putting the ex-servicemen to the foray now. Also they wish to take away the actual credit of modi govt for implementing the OROP as all knows it is only a matter of time before it is implemented. Now your guess is as good as mine regarding the interested parties. But it is rather disheartening to see the ex-servicemen not recognising it and maring image of the one govt which as actually taken up this cause seriously.

I think it's a combination of both disappointment and politics at play here. DM said his self imposed deadline (the interview with Karan Thapar) was around April-May and while the Defence ministry has cleared it (post no 10) it is now stuck in finance I guess. Then there was news reported in some media outlets about "no particular deadline" for the roll out, and of course politics will be played. Everyone from Congress to AAP are shouting, Gul Panags dad has been very vocal (calling Modi Hitler, abusing etc). So as an after effect now they will say that they had to pressurize

 

[hit&run]

I think it's a combination of both disappointment and politics at play here. DM said his self imposed deadline (the interview with Karan Thapar) was around April-May and while the Defence ministry has cleared it (post no 10) it is now stuck in finance I guess. Then there was news reported in some media outlets about "no particular deadline" for the roll out, and of course politics will be played. Everyone from Congress to AAP are shouting, Gul Panags dad has been very vocal (calling Modi Hitler, abusing etc). So as an after effect now they will say that they had to pressurize

Can you please post that discussion where Gul Panag's father was calling Modi Hitler ? If it is true then I wonder how these people even make it to TV channels or even pretend to be experts. I think he is on the forum as well but not sure what ID he uses.

Regards

 

[TejasMK3]

Can you please post that discussion where Gul Panag's father was calling Modi Hitler ? If it is true then I wonder how these people even make it to TV channels or even pretend to be experts. I think he is on the forum as well but not sure what ID he uses.

Regards

Just go through his tweets in general, you can see this sort of thing.

 

[Sakal Gharelu Ustad]

Do we really need OROP?

Correct me if I am wrong. OROP will mean guys who serve army for 10 years and another who served for 20 years but retire at same rank will get same pension. Right now, the guy who worked for 20 years will be earning higher pension due to various pay commissions and higher salary at the time of his retirement.

Now the army wants everyone to have same pension. I think it is unfair to the person who worked for longer years.

 

[indiatester]

Do we really need OROP?

Correct me if I am wrong. OROP will mean guys who serve army for 10 years and another who served for 20 years but retire at same rank will get same pension. Right now, the guy who worked for 20 years will be earning higher pension due to various pay commissions and higher salary at the time of his retirement.

Now the army wants everyone to have same pension. I think it is unfair to the person who worked for longer years.

But that's not completely true.
Right now, for an ex-service man, once they retire, their pension is not kept upto date like that of other civilian govt positions. That is being corrected now.
The difference in service period in a rank will be taken into consideration.