Origin of Rajputs

[Singh]

1. Regarding at Yavans I read somewhere that it was used to denote Ionians aka Greeks, although one particular person believed it referred to Egyptians.
2. Puranas are not accurate sources of info because they have been altered quite a bit. Even some religious heads are of the opinion that they have been tampered with.
3. Rajputs have not been intermarrying as much as I believe you are suggesting because of distances. Perhaps after the arrival of Mughals, when marriages were used as political tools that such practices were promoted. (I am guessing)

 

[pmaitra]

@Singh

Yavanas are Greeks. Yes, Yavana, Ionians, etc., mean the same thing.
Pallavas are Iranians. Pallava, Pahlavi, Parthian, Persian, all mean the same thing.
Sakas are Schythians. Saka, Sakha, etc., probably mean the same thing.

Statue of the Saka Warrior in Kazakhstan.

There is another community, in Russia, called the Yakuts, also called the Sakha Republic, and this region lies just north of Kazakhstan. It is unclear whether Sakha and Saka mean the same thing. The Sakha were a Turkic people, and were driven out by Buryat Mongols at one point, so there is a possibility, they might have migrated.

 

[Singh]

@pmaitra
I believe Saka has negative connotation colloquially ? I think in Old Punjabi, Saka meant a foreigner (white?) and not in a good way.

I could be totally wrong, and probably mixing up terms .

 

[pmaitra]

@pmaitra
I believe Saka has negative connotation colloquially ? I think in Old Punjabi, Saka meant a foreigner (white?) and not in a good way.

I could be totally wrong, and probably mixing up terms .

I think, and this is just speculation, the negative connotation probably comes from the fact that the Scythian communities were nomadic, were constantly moving, and fighting around. You gotta look at the geography of the regions they inhabited - cold, barren, and rough, unlike the riverine plains of India, much more suited to agriculture and a sedentary lifestyle.

 

[Singh]

The fire ritual performed by Agasthya on Mt. Abu might have something to do with it. Folklore says, Rajputs emerged from within the fire, but i don't believe that. However, could it be that the fire was a massive military signal atop a mountain intended for the warrior tribes in the distant lands, to come in the defense of Brahmins?
[/LIST]

Fire is also now as a cleanser. Those who take up asceticism, light a funeral pyre for their old worldly self.

In a way, probably this Fire Ceremony meant that they were accepted into the fold after being cleansed in fire aka reborn ?

 

[Singh]

Sisodias start from a village named 'Sisoda' near Udaipur. They are a branch of Guhilots.
Guhilots got the name from their progenitor - King Guhaditya.
Guha was the first link in his lineage's shift from Vallabhipur (Gujarat) to south Rajasthan after the former's sacking.
He was born in a cave near Mount Abu.

How is it that Jats are also Gahlots ?

 

[pmaitra]

Fire is also now as a cleanser. Those who take up asceticism, light a funeral pyre for their old worldly self.

In a way, probably this Fire Ceremony meant that they were accepted into the fold after being cleansed in fire aka reborn ?

Yes, that seems to be the most likely thing that happened.

Shuddhikaran is a Vedic process that is still practiced today, and a fire is present to perform the Yajna.

 

[Singh]

Yes, that seems to be the most likely thing that happened.

Could also be Foreigners, who were cleansed / baptized by Fire ?

Shuddhikaran is a Vedic process that is still practiced today, and a fire is present to perform the Yajna.

Not a Vedic Process. It was invented/created/thought of at the beginning of the 20th century.

 

[pmaitra]

Could also be Foreigners, who were cleansed / baptized by Fire ?

Yes, or course, foreigner accepted into the fold, if you will, by purification or baptism.

However, baptism here should not be taken in the Christian concept. In Christianity, baptism isn't all. There has to be confirmation. In the Indian case, it is just a one step process.

Not a Vedic Process. It was invented/created/thought of at the beginning of the 20th century.

You could be right. I guess Shuddikaran was a later invention, not a Vedic ritual. I need to read more on that.

 

[Patriot]

@Virendra

PrithviRaj Vijaya written by Jayanaka the courtesan of PrithviRaj Chauhan, clearly mentions that the Chauhans were Suryavanshis.

What I have heard from my elders & vanshavali makers that Chauhan & Parihar were Agnivanshis while Kushwahs( Rajawats & shekhawats] descendents of Kush[ Son of Rama] were Suryavanshi.


All talks of Rajputs having relation with Huns etc is just propaganda BS only.

 

[pmaitra]

@Virendra

What I have heard from my elders & vanshavali makers that Chauhan & Parihar were Agnivanshis while Kushwahs( Rajawats & shekhawats] descendents of Kush[ Son of Rama] were Suryavanshi.


All talks of Rajputs having relation with Huns etc is just propaganda BS only.

What is "Agnivanshi?"

 

[Virendra]

None are foreigners. I don't know how many times I have to repeat it with references in this very thread.
You are talking to a Rajput and I am saying there is aboslutely nothing foreign about us at all.
Why is it so difficult to see that and why is it so compelling to keep speculating without an iota of evidence?

How is it that Jats are also Gahlots ?

I have no idea. May be the power plays made it look cool to claim descent and use Rajput names.
Create an alter .. a so called competitive sibling to Rajputs. Everyone wants the pie.
One would either want to board the same bus or he will badmouth the bus. Its either of the two.
Typical.

 

[Virendra]

@Virendra
What I have heard from my elders & vanshavali makers that Chauhan & Parihar were Agnivanshis while Kushwahs( Rajawats & shekhawats] descendents of Kush[ Son of Rama] were Suryavanshi.
All talks of Rajputs having relation with Huns etc is just propaganda BS only.

What is "Agnivanshi?"

Medieval bards picked from this fiction of Agni Kund originated Rajputs to glorify them (as divine or whatsoever ) and they created this Agnivansha i.e. the lineage of Agni for the clans they wanted to glorify thus.
The fiction itself was propped up in late medieval times.
Some say it could be a confusion arising due to interchangeable use of Sun and Agni/Fire because of their affinity.
But the fact remains, the so called Agnivanshis like Chauhans are Suryavanshis as contemporary sources mention already.

 

[Patriot]

What is "Agnivanshi?"

The one originated from AGNI hence Agnivanshi, it is all from folklore stories & from my elders. Nothing scientific in that too prove it or source for that.

Actually in Rajput there are people who make "Vanshavali" & they visit our villages to enter the name of new borne/ marriage events etc. One Rajput may find it's entire history of hundereds of years from their records.

 

[pmaitra]

Medieval bards picked from this fiction of Agni Kund originated Rajputs to glorify them (as divine or whatsoever ) and they created this Agnivansha i.e. the lineage of Agni for the clans they wanted to glorify thus.
The fiction itself was propped up in late medieval times.
Some say it could be a confusion arising due to interchangeable use of Sun and Agni/Fire because of their affinity.
But the fact remains, the so called Agnivanshis like Chauhans are Suryavanshis as contemporary sources mention already.

The one originated from AGNI hence Agnivanshi, it is all from folklore stories & from my elders. Nothing scientific in that too prove it or source for that.

Actually in Rajput there are people who make "Vanshavali" & they visit our villages to enter the name of new borne/ marriage events etc. One Rajput may find it's entire history of hundereds of years from their records.

Well, yes, that is my view as well. The theory of people emerging from a fire is something I do not subscribe to.

My question was perhaps not clear - what in your individuals opinions could be the reason for calling certain clans "Agnivanshi?" Is there a reason behind this folklore?

 

[rock127]

It is observed by me that this forum consists of lot of rajput related topics but not one on their origin.


What is sad is that the people oppose aryan invasion theory ( I too but it must be admitted that other side has good arguments too ) but not this worst myth ( along with undue prominence to buddhism ) concocted by british historians to be followed by communist and even nationalist historians.


In my study, I found that there is hardly any evidence for so called foreign origin of rajputs.

Even western historians now admit that the Paramaras, Chandellas, Chalukyas, Gaharvads are of indigenous stock but they associate Gurjar pratiharas, guhilots and chahmans or chauhans with huna, scythian and kushan tribes.


Now, to be frank, I can demolish the chances of kushan and scythian ancestry easily but I would like to know how they are related with Hunas.

I mean Rajputs if descendants of huna, must have some history of that descent but there is none in contemporary epigraphy.


Is here someone who can take up this challenge to show how rajputs are of huna stock? I am not doing it in spirit of combat but to know reasons why they are associated with hunas other than ridiculous idea that like hunas, they too are great fighters.

were mauryas, sungas, chandellas, rashtrakutas, rathores, guptas, satvajhanas not great fighters?

I got many books specifically about Rajputs and their origin/clans/castes but it would take some time(more of effort) to checkout.

 

[pmaitra]

I got many books specifically about Rajputs and their origin/clans/castes but it would take some time(more of effort) to checkout.

Please see if you can find online versions (PDF for example, or links), and share them here.

 

[Patriot]

Well, yes, that is my view as well. The theory of people emerging from a fire is something I do not subscribe to.

My question was perhaps not clear - what in your individuals opinions could be the reason for calling certain clans "Agnivanshi?" Is there a reason behind this folklore?

It is mythological though AGNI or SURYA may be symbol of the perticular Rajput Clan and reason behind these titles. Origination from fire defies all logics. Then there are Chandravanshi & Somvanshis as well.

One more thing traditionally Rajputs do not conduct marriage within the same clan or Surname for sake of genetic purity therefore marriages happens in distant relation all accross North India [ Rajasthan, Himachal, Uttrakhand,Haryana, Punjab, UP, MP].

 

[pmaitra]

One more question: What is the source or origin of the word, and/or, the clan of "Thakurs?"

@thakur_ritesh, please shed some light.

 

[pmaitra]

It is mythological though AGNI or SURYA may be symbol of the perticular Rajput Clan and reason behind these titles. Origination from fire defies all logics. Then there are Chandravanshi & Somvanshis as well.

Right, that could be one possibility.

One more thing traditionally Rajputs do not conduct marriage within the same clan or Surname for sake of genetic purity therefore marriages happens in distant relation all accross North India [ Rajasthan, Himachal, Uttrakhand,Haryana, Punjab, UP, MP].

Endogamous marriages are mandatory due to Gotra Laws, and it is not a Rajput-specific tradition.