OBOR and CPEC Developments

Discussion in 'China' started by Raja.pakistani, Aug 30, 2015.

  1. G10

    G10 Regular Member

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    Regarding Hambantota cars manufactured in India are using this port as transit for sagarmala as well as export. India always manages to work wired.
     
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  2. ezsasa

    ezsasa Senior Member Veteran Member Senior Member

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    Which ever port Hyundai and Nissan cars made in TN want to use as their transit point, is their choice ......
     
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  3. Butter Chicken

    Butter Chicken Senior Member Senior Member

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    A Kenyan senator’s warning to his colleagues about the dangers of drowning in Chinese debt

     
  4. G10

    G10 Regular Member

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    Why not give them the choice of vishakapatnam or any other port of south India. Why should we give a chance to make profit to others? Specially when it’s strategucally important.
     
  5. ezsasa

    ezsasa Senior Member Veteran Member Senior Member

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    There is no we here.....
    It is for Nissan and Hyundai to decide on their business strategy...
     
  6. Kshatriya87

    Kshatriya87 Senior Member Senior Member

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    Pak Indicates It May Rethink 'Debt Trap' Project, China Responds\\

    The new government in Pakistan is reportedly concerned over heavy Chinese loans under the China-Pakistan Economic Corridor or CPEC which, it fears, could push the country into a debt trap

    BEIJING:
    China on Tuesday sought to defend the massive trade corridor project with Pakistan after Prime Minister Imran Khan reportedly decided to slash Chinese investments and review the multi-billion dollar CPEC project. :balleballe:

    The new government in Pakistan is reportedly concerned over heavy Chinese loans under the China-Pakistan Economic Corridor or CPEC which, it fears, could push the country into a debt trap.

    Last week, Pakistan's Railway Minister Sheikh Rashid announced a cut in the cost of a railway project under the CPEC from $8.2 billion to $6.2 billion, saying Pakistan cannot afford huge loans. Besides, Imran Khan had said that the CPEC was under review.

    Responding to the developments, the Chinese foreign ministry said the media has been focusing on only one aspect of the issue. Ministry spokesperson Lu Kang said China and Pakistan were equal partners in the CPEC and the terms and rules were fair to both nations.

    "You have only noted some aspects of the report. Recently, on the advancement of the CPEC, we have noted that there are different comments on the reports from the media," Lu said at a press briefing.

    "...the new Pakistani Prime Minister has made it clear that he will support the advancement of the CPEC and the CPEC serves the economic and social development. The International Monetary Fund (IMF) also made it clear that the advancement of CPEC did not cause any burden to Pakistan and stated in the long term it will enhance Pakistan's capacity for development... We should view such kind of comments in a comprehensive way," Lu said.

    The $50 billion corridor that connects Kashgar in western China with Gwadar port in Pakistan, spanning 3,000 kilometres, is one of the pain points in ties between India and China. India has right from the start protested against China's CPEC push as the corridor passes through Pakistan-occupied Kashmir.

    "We hope you can see that CPEC as a very important project of the Belt and Road initiative. From the beginning, we have said that we follow the principle of extensive consultation and joint contribution. And also as for the choice for the projects and other aspects, China and Pakistan have conducted consultations on the basis of equality," the spokesperson said.

    The CPEC is the chief component of China's ambitious Belt and Road project which envisages connecting Asia, Africa and Europe through a network of highways, seaports and lanes. The estimated cost of the Belt and Road is about $1 trillion of which China has pledged some $60 billion for the CPEC. Critics say Pakistan may not be able to pay back the debt and end up becoming its satellite colony.
     
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  7. ezsasa

    ezsasa Senior Member Veteran Member Senior Member

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    This is where we should realise how obama screwed entire world, by allowing china to grow unopposed.
     
  8. mayfair

    mayfair Elite Member Elite Member

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    I think you will find it started way back, from Bill Clinton's time.
     
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  9. Kshatriya87

    Kshatriya87 Senior Member Senior Member

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    China I think was still in its chaddi during Clinton's tenure. All this and south china sea shit started during Obama's tenure.
     
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  10. ezsasa

    ezsasa Senior Member Veteran Member Senior Member

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    Even today the whole focus of American democrats on Russia is just to avoid focus on China.

    But trump and co seems to have out smarted them.
     
  11. mayfair

    mayfair Elite Member Elite Member

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    Nope, a LOT of things happened during Bill Clinton's time that enabled China to accelerate their "peaceful rise".

    I'll repost something that I had posted a couple of years back.

    ****
    http://www.whiteoutpress.com/how-china-conquered-america746/
    ---
    September-October 1993. According to the April 13, 1998 New York Times, Michael Armstrong, CEO of Hughes Electronics, which had worked with China Aerospace to launch American satellites, wrote two “blunt” letters to President Clinton in the early fall of 1993, reminding him of “his support” and saying that the sanctions were damaging his company. Together with Loral Space and Communications, Hughes had contributed $2.5 million to the Democratic Party since 1991.

    September 29, 1993. President Clinton announces a plan, which Commerce Secretary Ron Brown helped develop, to liberalize Coordinating Committee for Multilateral Export Controls restrictions on computers and other high technology equipment to China and other nations.

    October 5, 1993. China conducts an underground nuclear weapons test.

    November 12, 1993. President Clinton grants Hughes and Martin-Marietta waivers to launch US satellites from Chinese rockets.

    November 17, 1993. Secretary of State Warren Christopher indicates that if China will discuss its transfer of missile technology to Pakistan, the United States will allow two American satellites to be exported.

    November 18, 1993. President Clinton decides to permit the sale to China of an $8 million supercomputer capable of performing 958 million calculations per second. He also lifts the ban on selling components for China’s nuclear power plants.

    November 19, 1993. Chinese President Jiang Zemin meets informally with President Clinton at a conference for Asian-Pacific Economic Cooperation (APEC) leaders. Afterward, Clinton says, “I think anybody should be reluctant to isolate a country as big as China with the potential China has for good.”

    January 1994. The Clinton administration authorizes the Chinese launch of three satellites, including one Hughes satellite. The same month, the United States resumes financing for the UNFPA, which funds China’s population control program that includes coercive abortion.

    March 30, 1994. The United States lifts export restrictions on telecommunications and computer technology imposed by the Coordinating Committee for Multilateral Export Controls. China and the former Soviet block are the primary beneficiaries.

    May 3, 1994. President Clinton tells CNN, “I do not seek, nor would it be proper, for the United States or any other nation to tell a great nation like China how to conduct all its internal affairs, to treat all its citizens or what laws it should have. That would be wrong.”

    June 2, 1994. President Clinton announces that he will sign an executive order extending MFN to China for another year. Clinton says that he will no longer link trade with human rights in evaluating China’s MFN status.

    September 1994. Loral CEO Bernard Schwartz travels to China with Commerce Secretary Ron Brown on a trade mission. From 1992 to the present, Schwartz has given $1.9 million to the Democratic Party.

    October 4, 1994. US Secretary of State Warren Christopher and Chinese Foreign Minister Qian Qichen sign an agreement ending the ban on export to China of US high-technology, including satellite launch equipment and computer technology.

    October 7, 1994. China conducts an underground nuclear test.

    October 18, 1994. US Defense Secretary William Perry and Chinese military leaders agree to begin high-level briefings on each other’s military strategy. Perry tells a news conference, “We are putting into place one dimension of the overall policy of President Clinton’s program of broad, constructive engagement with China.”

    February 15, 1996. A Chinese Long March 3B carrying a $200 million Loral satellite explodes 22 seconds after lilftoff.

    March 14, 1996. President Clinton shifts control over regulating the export of communications satellites from the State Dept. which was primarily concerned with national security aspects of such exports, to the Commerce Dept., which is concerned with the economic benefits.

    May 10, 1996. The Loral-led review commission investigating the February rocket explosion completes and passes on to Chinese officials its report, which according to the April 13, 1998 New York Times, discusses “sensitive aspects of the rocket’s guidance and control systems, which is an area of weakness in China’s missile programs.” The New York Times says that a Pentagon report concludes that, as a result of this technology transfer, “United States national security has been harmed”.

    May 23, 1996. President Clinton calls for renewal of MFN for China, saying that renewal would not be “a referendum on all China’s policies,” but “a vote for America’s interests.”

    June 8, 1996. China conducts an underground nuclear test.

    July 21, 1996. Johnny Chung, according to the New York Times, brings Liu Chao-ying to two DNC fundraisers, including a $25,000 per couple dinner. Liu Chao-ying is a Lieutenant Colonel in the People’s Liberation Army and an executive at China Aerospace, which owns the Great Wall Industry Corp. that makes Long March rockets. Her father is the top commander of Chinese military forces. The New York Times says that Chung has told the Justice Dept. that Liu gave him the better part of $100,000 he contributed to the DNC in the latter part of 1996, and that the source of the money was the PLA.

    July 29, 1996. China declares a moratorium on nuclear testing after conducting another nuclear test.

    August 8, 1996. According to AP, Clinton meets again with Long Beach officials to advocate turning over the naval base to COSCO.

    September 24, 1996. At the UN, President Clinton joins with the foreign ministers of China, France, Russia and Great Britain in signing the Comprehensive Test Ban Treaty forbidding all testing of nuclear weapons.

    November 5, 1996. President Clinton wins reelection. According to the Center for Responsive Politics, the single largest Democratic donor during the election cycle was Loral CEO Bernard Schwartz, who gave $632,000 in ‘soft money’ to the Democratic Party between 1995 and 1996. The State Dept. issues regulations shifting responsibility for satellite launching licenses to the Commerce Dept.

    January 1997. The Panamanian government awards the contract to operate the Atlantic and Pacific ports of the Panama Canal to a Hong Kong company, Hutchison Whampoa. China takes control of Hong Kong six months later. The United States, which is set to relinquish control of the canal next year, does not protest.

    March 25, 1997. While in Beijing for a meeting with Premier Li Peng and President Jiang Zemin, Vice President Gore attends signing ceremonies for Boeing’s $685 million sale of five jetliners to China’s state-owned Civil Aviation Administration as well as a $1.3 billion joint venture between General Motors and China’s state-owned Shanghai Automotive Industry Corp.

    May 1997. According to the April 13, 1998 New York Times, a classified Pentagon report reveals that Hughes and Loral scientists “had turned over expertise that significantly improved the reliability of China’s nuclear missiles” following the February 1996 rocket explosion. Hughes and Loral deny the New York Times report when it is published in 1998.

    May 19, 1997. President Clinton announces that he will authorize MFN renewal for China.

    October 1997. Chinese President Jiang Zemin makes a state visit to the United States. During the trip, he stops at a Hughes site to discuss satellites.

    January 15, 1998. After China promises that it will no longer aid Iran’s nuclear program, President Clinton certifies that China is a reliable partner for nuclear technology exchange.

    February 19, 1998. Despite opposition from the Justice Dept, President Clinton signs a waiver approving the launch of a Loral satellite from a Chinese rocket and reportedly authorizing the transfer of the same type of technology that the Pentagon said had “harmed” US security and that the Justice Dept. was investigation Loral and Hughes for their illegally transferring in 1996.
    ---
    ****

    Basically, Cheen bought out/honey trapped Bill Clinton and he generously gave away sensitive technology to them at will.

    At the same time, he hand his lackeys such as Napaki mistress Robin Raphael were hankering us and trying to intimidate us into signing NPT/CTBT, capping missile and space programmes, denying us the cryogenic technology and orchestrating fake scandals to sabotage our efforts to acquire or develop them.

    It is highly likely that US was fully aware of choopa-specialist Pinky Begum transferring the nuke knowhow to NK on behalf of China and US. This gives them a perfect justification to stay on in the peninsula. This was the time when NK was going through the arduous march and Suryeong (Kim Il Sung) was dead and Kim Jong Il was trying to establish his legitimacy and authority.
     
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  12. ezsasa

    ezsasa Senior Member Veteran Member Senior Member

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    Yup, I remember those days. Americans were viewing China as a potential market because of the billion population. China hadn’t shown any intent to compete with America at that time.
     
  13. AnantS

    AnantS Senior Member Senior Member

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    Well obama drafted a policy around G-2.. if you remember. Since US Foreign Policy is 2000 pound rhino, once starts running in one direction, does not easily change its position - US govts may come and go. I am still wondering if what Trump is doing is all smoke and mirrors
     
    Last edited: Oct 11, 2018
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  14. ezsasa

    ezsasa Senior Member Veteran Member Senior Member

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    I keep a look out for think tank discussions.only after trump announced tariffs on China , think tanks started regularly finding faults on China.

    In other words extreme criticism of China was being suppressed within America prior to trump’s arrival, which is contrary to American think tank culture/behaviour. Usually they have negative opinion about everything under the sky, nobody is exempt.
     
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  15. AnantS

    AnantS Senior Member Senior Member

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    China criticism happened time to time even under Obama. But what was astonishing to see in US was general eagerness in US to business in China/with China, that some encouraged more employees to learn mandarin... to ease doing business in China. When it came to directing anger of Job Loss, primarily it was India, with political campaign ads mostly showing in call center employees/outsourcing and they resulting in job loss in US. I mean I was like hello.. India is not the place where your factories went. There was deliberate smoke being created to hide real issue of severe Job reduction due to most manufacturing plants shutting operations in US & shifting to China.

    Given China loves to bribe and US lobbies are not immune to it. Lets see how this tariff war plays out. Trump may extract out some business concession and business will continue as usual.
     
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  16. ezsasa

    ezsasa Senior Member Veteran Member Senior Member

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    Yup, business will continue as usual in the long run.
     
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  17. mayfair

    mayfair Elite Member Elite Member

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    @ezsasa Interesting you say that about "restrained" criticism of China in US circles.

    Why are America's elite universities censoring themselves on China?

    https://newrepublic.com/article/150476/american-elite-universities-selfcensorship-china

    There is an epidemic of self-censorship at U.S. universities on the subject of China, one that limits debate and funnels students and academics away from topics likely to offend the Chinese Communist Party. This epidemic stems less from the hundreds of millions of dollars Chinese individuals and the Chinese Communist Party spend in U.S. universities, or the influx of students from mainland China—roughly 350,000 in the United States, up more than fivefold from a decade ago. Rather, it is that some people in American academia, too eager to please Beijing or too fearful of offending China and the Chinese people, have submitted to a sophisticated global censorship regime. This weakens not only their scholarship and integrity, but also their negotiating power with Beijing over issues such as access for research, conferences and other academic collaborations, and joint programs between American and Chinese institutions.
    ....
    Columbia University’s Global Center in Beijing canceled several talks it feared would upset Chinese officials,
    ...
    “It has gotten to the point where I don’t engage with anything overly political relating to the Chinese state,” said a white graduate student at a top American university, who described her views as “middle of the road” for those studying China. “I would not willfully do anything that would endanger my ability to get a visa to China in the future,” she added.
    ...
    North Carolina State University canceled a visit from the Dalai Lama in 2009. “I don’t want to say we didn’t think about whether there were implications,” said the university’s provost, Warwick Arden. “Of course you do. China is a major trading partner for North Carolina.” Or, more recently, in September 2016, when the provost of New York’s Alfred University, Rick Stephens, personally ejected the researcher Rachelle Peterson from campus for investigating Chinese government influence at the school.
    ...
    Robert Barnett, who ran Columbia University’s Modern Tibetan Studies Program from its founding in 1999 until stepping down in 2017, emphasized that Columbia never actively restricted his work, but that there was often “a very strong tendency within the university, and with many prestigious institutions in the U.S., not to include people who study the kind of subject I work on in any kind of academic collaborations in China or in dialogues with Chinese delegates.”
    ...
    “I frequently hear graduate students and younger scholars—people with academic jobs but pre-tenure—being advised not to explore sensitive subjects in their research, so they can preserve visa access.
    ...
    It's a fascinating article.

    Ultimately, personal interests override objectivity in many cases.
     
  18. SREEKAR

    SREEKAR DEEP STATE Senior Member

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    If this continues , US will turn Communist one fine day...
     
  19. nimo_cn

    nimo_cn Senior Member Senior Member

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    low end manufacturing jobs are bound to escape America, if not to China then to somewhere else, because no Americans would like to work in the swaetshops for minimum wages. Americans blame Indians for snatching jobs because more and more office jobs are taken by Indians.
     
  20. nimo_cn

    nimo_cn Senior Member Senior Member

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    Why are you feeling sorry for Americans? America is the largest beneficiary of Chinese economic development, American multinational companies make billions of dollars from Chinese market each year. They didn't lose anything, they are still number one, and no would be able to challenge that in a near future.
     

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