Now is the right time to invest in Pakistan startups: repor

thethinker

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Who's afraid of Pakistan's military?

Its hegemony has been questioned and at times even challenged since 2007 by institutions which have not been able to do so until now

The general impression people outside Pakistan have of its military is that it is the most powerful institution there which determines every move by civilian representatives, particularly those who have supposedly been given the permission to be elected to higher office and govern the country. This perception may be more pronounced in India, where Mr. Nawaz Sharif's recent visit for the swearing-in of Prime Minister Narendra Modi was seen as a very "bold move," perhaps going against the military's wishes, yet showing the mettle of the twice-dismissed elected Prime Minister of Pakistan. Little do people outside Pakistan know that in the last month, the social media in Pakistan — which is far from being a mere plaything in the hands of radicals and anti-military types — has been scoffing at Pakistan's military for the situation it finds itself in today. From being an institution which governed and managed the entire country (for a decade, its two wings, the east and the west), it has now been reduced to one involved in issues as varied as imposing a ban on a television channel to preventing newspapers from a media house being distributed in cantonment areas. As a well-respected newspaper editor tweeted recently, "good to know the gens now have cable management as part of their job description. One would have thought DHAs [Defence Housing Authorities] & bakeries were enuff." Another popular participant added, "used to be time when Pakistan army used to overthrow governments. Now they are overthrowing news channels. Sigh. How the mighty have fallen!"

Changing political equation

However, lest one is misled, this active and aggressive campaign against Geo by the military and the Inter-Services Intelligence (ISI) has some public support. Moreover, the first and immediate response to Mr. Sharif's New Delhi visit was from a large number of Pakistani pro-military television anchors and so-called "security experts" appearing on talk shows, who gave the talks between the two leaders, and the subsequent statements a twist which only military minds could have constructed. They have already termed the visit to be a failure and have cast Mr. Sharif as a wimp.

Some things have changed. Until around sometime in 2007, the question of what was the strongest institution in Pakistan was always met with the reply "the military"; it was unambiguous and did not call for any elaboration. For six decades after Independence, Pakistan's military, specifically its Army, has reigned supreme over the political economy of Pakistan. However, since 2007, there has been not just far greater ambiguity regarding the question; for once, there are a number of possible answers as well. While the military is still powerful, it has now been forced to share the stage with at least two, possibly three, institutions which can make some valid and genuine claims to being powerful; perhaps not dominant, but at least vying for power, with varying degree, among a handful of contenders.

The military's hegemony has been questioned and at times even challenged since 2007 by institutions which have not been able to do so until now. The Judiciary, Parliament and to some degree, until recently, the media, have tried to assert their independence and sovereignty in the public and political domain, in effect pushing the military aside. The Supreme Judiciary, and the (now retired) Chief Justice of Pakistan, since 2008, have passed numerous judgments which have found the military as an institution — as well as serving and retired senior officers — guilty of treasonable offences. Many decisions and judgments are still pending and under review. Some of those which have already been made have not resulted in the officers concerned being imprisoned. But the fact that the Judiciary — which until recently has been a partner of the military in its anti-democratic political stance and decisions — is now in a position to be able to challenge the military and assert its own democratic and independent stance, is in itself significant in a country which has not seen such belligerent action.

Parliament has also flexed its independent muscle after 2008, though, sadly, not enough to be able to demonstrate its right to govern while challenging the dominance of the military. The media, which has for the most part been a participant in this transition has been a tool for democratic forces to push out the military for its past anti-democratic behaviour and positions on many an occasion. The undisputed dominance of the military in the Pakistani political settlement has been successfully challenged; from being a hegemon, the military may at the moment be just a veto player, a huge transformation in Pakistan's political economy. There is no clear dominant institution at this moment. For a country which has known military dominance for over six decades, these are extraordinary developments. The military is not what it once was in the eyes of the public nor in the equation which explains Pakistan's political economy.

Civil-military tensions

There have been enough signs that the military's hegemony has been broken, one being the largely symbolic indictment of General Pervez Musharraf himself. Yet, one needs to be reminded that such transitions, where civilian institutions begin to dominate and when the military recedes, can take years. In countries where the military has ruled for as long as two or three decades at a stretch, research has shown that it can be between eight to ten years before the military begins to reluctantly accept civilian supremacy and when it loses its supreme power. In the case of Indonesia, for example, it took almost a decade before the military lost even its power to veto key civilian decisions. We have not even completed six years of civilian transition, and war on our borders and within Pakistan gives greater legitimacy to military interference than in "normal" countries.

Last month, Pakistani newspapers reported that General Headquarters had "convened" a meeting of the main economic ministers, including those handling finance, cmmerce, water and power, where they had to "satisfy the military leadership" over whether Pakistan should increase trade with India. This instance of interference by the military in sabotaging Pakistan's trade policy is a sign that while the military is down and out, civilian supremacy and dominance over the military is still incomplete. What right does the military have to decide which country Pakistan should trade with? Under civilian control, Pakistan's military needs to deal only with issues which affect security and Pakistan's borders, and not about what consumers can buy and sell, or which country they can buy from and sell to. While civilian control over many institutions has been gradual, it continues to confront the military's lingering supremacy in some areas.

In the last two months, Pakistan has been engulfed by a major crisis between Pakistan's largest media house, and the ISI and the military. The former has levelled allegations while the military and its clandestine institutions have hit back. As Hasan Zaidi, a Pakistani journalist wrote in The New York Times, "cable operators were informally pressured to take Geo off the air. Demonstrations, often by militant religious parties, suddenly began springing up all over Pakistan in support of the I.S.I. and against Geo — probably the first time anyone in the world has rallied to defend an intelligence agency."

This "tension" between one prominent pillar of civil society and Pakistan's military has also rubbed off on relations between the military and the government for the government has been perceived to be taking sides against Pakistan's valiant military in this latest stand-off, probably a correct assessment. The fact that a sitting elected government of Pakistan can be seen to take sides against the military is courageous enough and signifies a sense (perhaps a false one) of its presumed relative power over an institution which has dominated Pakistan unambiguously for so long.

The military in Pakistan is also responsible for its fall from grace, after having had to explain the presence of Osama bin Laden in Pakistan, America's night raid to kill him and numerous insider attempts to attack Pakistan's military personnel. Also, Gen. Musharraf, by the time he was forced out in 2008, must share much of the blame for dragging the military through the mud. There is also a sense that the narrative in Pakistan may have shifted towards democracy, away from military rule — at least for the moment.

Though Pakistan's democratic dispensation is weak, it is still evolving and probably gaining strength. It needs to overcome the barriers put up by Pakistan's armed forces who are waiting for civilians to trip over. It has avoided this for the moment, but the path is scattered with numerous challenges, especially by those related to civilian performance. Despite Pakistan military's denuded power, it still remains an influence in public policy and has the ability to conduct another coup. While military-led governments in Pakistan have, ironically, benefitted India-Pakistan relations, they have been disastrous for Pakistan.

Unlike India, where a military does not intervene in the workings of an elected government, in Pakistan it is a tradition that continues to persist. Pakistan's political dispensation is in a process of transition, yet transitions are never automatic nor natural processes and require actors to show their agency as well. While the civil and democratic dispensation needs to speed up this transition and turn the corner once and for all, it will have to be far more assertive, efficient in delivering services and justice, and be a little less afraid.

(S. Akbar Zaidi is a political economist based in Karachi.)
 

Neo

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Looks like a nerve is hit whenever it comes to PA. And your correlation between WB stats and "barking about PA" is moronic.

You still haven't answered why the disparity in lifestyles of average Pak v/s PA personnel. There are a few videos from your fellowmen that clarify that (some though have been killed by PA sadly). :lol:
My answer to you is Long live Pakistan Army!

Happy?
 

thethinker

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My answer to you is Long live Pakistan Army!

Happy?
Ah, classic obfuscation. What is surprising is that you always sidestep sensitive questions being asked about Pak while respond to trolls on same thread and then divert thread. Then complain about DFI moderation.

Don't expect to be taken seriously unless you address that.
 

Neo

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Ah, classic obfuscation. What is surprising is that you always sidestep sensitive questions being asked about Pak while respond to trolls on same thread and then divert thread. Then complain about DFI moderation.

Don't expect to be taken seriously unless you address that.
Be happy that you are not on my ignore.list like Rock127 and six others. Don't like what you read, please do use the ignore option. :wave:
 

thethinker

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Be happy that you are not on my ignore.list like Rock127 and six others. Don't like what you read, please do use the ignore option. :wave:
I really don't care about what you do. But if you come on DFI of all places and start with the Ghazi and anti-India babble without a related context, expect your ass to be handed out.

Or maybe you can put all the DFI members on ignore. That way, you can do whatever you like (till you get banned)! :thumb:
 

Neo

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I really don't care about what you do. But if you come on DFI of all places and start with the Ghazi and anti-India babble without a related context, expect your ass to be handed out.

Or maybe you can put all the DFI members on ignore. That way, you can do whatever you like (till you get banned)! :thumb:
Actually there are quite a few Indian hardliners I like and love to follow their comments. Badra, Comparison, W.G., Energon, Yusuf, Sir Ray to name a few are all gems I cherish.

I've only put some of the worst trolls on my ignorelist.
 

BridgeSeller

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more than 50 % of pakistan is no go area. i wonder how they got the data.

anyhow pak population is 16 crore only compare to 120 crore of india
Using Sialkot Statistics and madrassa math of course. It's called pulling things out of your *ss and mixing with khayali pulao. When was the last time this soon-to-best-India-in-everything nation had their wits about to conduct a census?

I am guessing if they tried, having eradicated Polio workers, they'd start finishing the census takers.

Also, with their 15 kids to each begum,16 Crore is a pipe-dream. I am fairly confident it's about 18-20.
 
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abhi_the _gr8_maratha

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Useless point. Indian.economy is 8.5 lager than Pakistan, hence the higher export. Hard fact however remains that worlds glorified.third largest economy in terms of PPP remains a minor in global trade. Smaller nations are doing much better. :wave:
tell me what smaller nation? Except china, russia,sa which nation have approx. 5% growth rate ?
 

Neo

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Using Sialkot Statistics and madrassa math of course. It's called pulling things out of your *ss and mixing with khayali pulao. When was the last time this soon-to-best-India-in-everything nation had their wits about to conduct a census?

I am guessing if they tried, having eradicated Polio workers, they'd start finishing the census takers.

Also, with their 15 kids to each begum,16 Crore is a pipe-dream. I am fairly confident it's about 18-20.
Yoy both seem to be pulling a lit if data out of your a*s, your best source. :laugh:

Pakistans population is 193 million.
 

BridgeSeller

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Read my comment again, referring to global trade and not economic growth.
India Exports - 313Billion
Pakistan Exports - 25Billion
Bangladesh Exports - 27Billion. <-- Look at this :rofl:
Israel( Pop. - 8Million) Exports - 60Billion
Total Equity of Reliance Industries - 31Billion

Enough said.

No more wasting time on your delusions.
 

Neo

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India Exports - 313Billion
Pakistan Exports - 25Billion
Bangladesh Exports - 27Billion. <-- Look at this :rofl:
Israel( Pop. - 8Million) Exports - 60Billion
Total Equity of Reliance Industries - 31Billion

Enough said.

No more wasting time on your delusions.
Hahaha pulled it out of your a*s again; it is not even related to my post. :rofl::rofl:
 

ladder

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Hahaha pulled it out of your a*s again; it is not even related to my post. :rofl::rofl:
How is it not related? Are you the author of parallel economics?

Like wise, you mentioned about poverty in India, and that income figure you pasted is the best reflection of it, have you heard of the term MPI? And which factor in it is the real reflection of the severity of poverty?

Now, you called PPP a glorified statistics. And that the trade is always in absolute terms. And now you say India's contribution in global trade is less. ( you used the term trade) so it signifies India produces and consumes on it's own. and that is carried out in PPP terms.The tangible size of Indian market remains whether PPP or absolute. Again it would mean PPP is a better reflection of Indian economy isn't it?

Don't tie your panties in knots Mr. economist.
 
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Neo

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Never claimed to be Mr Economist :)
My claim stands that India is a minor in global trade :)

You see, the problem with you trigger happy guys is that you read two posts and fire a shot at me totally ignoring the context :)

Few posts earlier someone farted that Indian export is larger than Pak Gdp, which is true but totally unrelated to poverty which he was upset about so he fired a loose fart. In my reply I mentioned that Indian economy is 8.5 times bigger hence the higher export but India remain a minor in global trade. :)

You can brag about PPP or bring in some Martian money, I don't care. It won't change the fact that WB put poverty by international norm which is $2 per day at 68,8% for India and 60,19 for Pakistan. :)
Eversince I made that comment yesterday, people have been firing shots with polio, terrorists and God knows what. :)
Good day! :wave:
 

ladder

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Never claimed to be Mr Economist :)
My claim stands that India is a minor in global trade :)

You see, the problem with you trigger happy guys is that you read two posts and fire a shot at me totally ignoring the context :)

Few posts earlier someone farted that Indian export is larger than Pak Gdp, which is true but totally unrelated to poverty which he was upset about so he fired a loose fart. In my reply I mentioned that Indian economy is 8.5 times bigger hence the higher export but India remain a minor in global trade. :)

You can brag about PPP or bring in some Martian money, I don't care. It won't change the fact that WB put poverty by international norm which is $2 per day at 68,8% for India and 60,19 for Pakistan. :)
Eversince I made that comment yesterday, people have been firing shots with polio, terrorists and God knows what. :)
Good day! :wave:
Oh ho! Janab, problem is that I have a good trigger discipline. You said that his figures are not related, but it was related.

No, either you don't know what you are writing about or you think everybody here is a fool.

You said PPP is not important, even now you are saying so, but the data WB poverty data which it provides is based on PPP. Its $2 ( 2005 PPP$) and $1.25( 2005 PPP$). So, indirectly you are sharing World Bank data which is based on PPP and saying it's not important?

Crazy guy you are. Do you even know what PPP is? the World Bank surely knows.

I asked you two questions about MPI which you totally ignored. Not unexpected of you.

The values of the international poverty line (e.g. $1.25, $2, $4, or $5 a day) represent different standards of what poverty means. The $1.25 a day poverty line (in 2005 PPP $) is the extreme poverty line and represents the poverty line typical of the world's poorest countries. The $2 a day poverty line (in 2005 PPP $) is the median (average) poverty line for all developing countries and represents a slightly higher standard of living. The $1.25 and $2 a day poverty lines are typically used to measure poverty globally and to compare poverty across countries in less developed regions.
http://web.worldbank.org/WBSITE/EXT...K:210058~piPK:210062~theSitePK:336992,00.html
 
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fyodor

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Doesn't matter that who is ahead between India and Pakistan. It's like paralympics, no matter who wins they would still be retarded :D
 

BridgeSeller

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Oh ho! Janab, problem is that I have a good trigger discipline. You said that his figures are not related, but it was related.

No, either you don't know what you are writing about or you think everybody here is a fool.

You said PPP is not important, even now you are saying so, but the data WB poverty data which it provides is based on PPP. Its $2 ( 2005 PPP$) and $1.25( 2005 PPP$). So, indirectly you are sharing World Bank data which is based on PPP and saying it's not important?

Crazy guy you are. Do you even know what PPP is? the World Bank surely knows.

I asked you two questions about MPI which you totally ignored. Not unexpected of you.



Poverty - Poverty & Equality Data FAQs
He's avoiding thinking about how disastrous his country is by focusing on the flaws in India, in other words, taking my analogy from earlier, their ship is sinking and he's taking solace in the fact that one of the faucets in ours has a leak. He's seriously convinced that somehow his ship will rise and float again and its just a matter of time because they are better than us short dark rice eating kafir 'bhartis', (Which is why both Israel and Bangladesh's stats gave him so much heartburn, he dismissed it as being off topic because that is all he could say, lahori logic does not cope well with reality you see). I say let them suffer this delusion. When the enemy is overconfident, don't correct them. When the water starts making things difficult to breathe, that's when we can point and laugh at them from our deck.

And don't worry about the recent lull, it is that proverbial one before the storm. The ghazis are following what is written in their holy books and lying low and recuperating while the pak-army is going around bombing their own civilians. When the pakistan hits the fan, you better have your beer and popcorn ready. there's going to be fireworks. In french er... I mean in hindi there is a saying, jab uper waala... etc.

Also, please note that while his quotes are right per WB for percentage below poverty line, what he ignores to mention is that India is reducing the percentage below poverty line at a rate much faster than pa'astan as can be seen in that link. Now pa'astan's data is for '99-'06 and we know what must have happened to that rate of decrease in malala-lalaland since then no? ;)
 

abhi_the _gr8_maratha

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Read my comment again, referring to global trade and not economic growth.
do you want a third world courty to do it? India is one of most success asian country if it comes to growth of middle class. Compare past to present and not a country to other one.
 

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