No more good morning from now on, its Jai Hind for Indian Army

[ninja85]

You are right.

I do not understand politics and its ways.

But I sure understand the Army, its ethic, its ethos, its traditions, and it customs.

may be try the video in my next post, solider.

 

[Ray]

may be try the video in my next post, solider.

????????????????

BTW what is the Indian culture?

Every part of the country has different culture, religious rites, festivals, traditions, customs, etc.

North India, or the cow belt, is not Indian culture.

You must get that clear.

Guess what?

In the Army, we speak Hindi, actually because of the colonial mindset.

The British made Hindustani the language of the Army and we followed that and slowly converted it into Hindi.

In the Regiment, there are many of them who speak the language from where they come from and not Hindi!

If you think by calling me 'soldier', I would feel demeaned, let such childishness not make you salivate. Yes, I proudly myself proclaim that am a soldier first (that is my honoured profession and indeed my privilege that is not bestowed on all and sundry, if you don't mind), an officer second and lastly a Flag Officer, if you don't mind!

 

[ninja85]

????????????????

BTW what is the Indian culture?

Every part of the country has different culture, religious rites, festivals, traditions, customs, etc.

because you have that perspective to see it different and you cannot see indian thing in it.

 

[Ray]

because you have that perspective to see it different and you cannot see indian thing in it.

You bet it.

I don't subscribe to the concept that Indian culture is the North Indian, up country or cow belt culture.

You bet it that my culture is way different from your, even though both you and I are Indians.

And I will be damned if you thrust your culture down my throat to be accepted as the Indian culture!

I cannot see.in generalities.

I like to go into details.

And I am not afraid to see the truth as clearly as I can see; and not pull wool over my eyes to sell something that is not real.

Yes, there is an entity called India.

There is a clear identity, which is an amalgam of the historical issues and eras, that which has evolved after the Independence and thereafter.

The current contemporary culture is way different from the make belief 'Indian culture' that one wants to project now and and then, depending on the flavour of their mood at that moment.

Speaking Hindi is surely not an Indian culture. At best, the cow belt culture, if you don't mind.

But notwithstanding that, the language, culture, traditions, festival etc etc are different in other parts of India and have no doubts about that!

Encompassing those difference and clearly having those differences the whole kaleidoscope can be called Indian culture.

We have also inherited quite a few aspects from the Mughal and British period and that too is a part of our culture.

To feel otherwise, is not 'secular', which is the mantra that all wants to profess and loudly proclaim.

Hindu culture, North Indian culture, whatever they may be, are not the sole culture of India.

Culture does not stand still.

It evolves.

Therefore, to feel otherwise, is being a frog in the well!

We use many English words in our vernacular.

At the same time, English and other languages have taken many Indian words and which is a part of their vernacular.

In English have you heard of pundit, wallah, Juggernaut, cha, nirvana, avatar etc? The list is endless.

Are you aware that veranda or verandah comes from the Portuguese varanda, meaning a roofed opened gallery or porch? Or almari meaning a cupboard come from the Portuguese word armário or istiri comes from the Portuguese word estirar or even kameez coming from the Portuguese word camisa, gamla being gamela "wooden trough" or chabi being the Portuguese chave?

I can give you many words from other languages which have been incorporated into Hindi and Indian words.

Even the village folks use those word.

Are they by using such words forgetting their Indian culture?

Educate yourself and then vent your bile and let your spleen run wild.

Indian culture is deep and diverse and not a matter for frivolous interpretation or pique1

 

[ninja85]

No I cannot see.in gneralities.

I like to go into details.

And I am not afraid to see the truth as clearly as I can see and not pull wool over my eyes to sell something that is not real.

Yes, there is an entity called India.

There is a clear identity that has evolved thereafter.

But notwithstanding that, the language, culture, traditions, festival etc etc are different.

Encompassing those difference and clearly having those differences the whole kaleidoscope can be called Indian culture.

We have also inherited quite a few aspects from the Mughal and British period and that too is a part of our culture.

To feel otherwise, is not 'secular', which is the mantra that all wants to profess and loudly proclaim.

Hindu culture, North Indian culture, whatever they may be, are not the sole culture of India.

Culture does not stand still.

It evolves.

Therefore, to feel otherwise, is being a frog in the well!

i am surprised is our army guys this fragmented.

 

[Ray]

i am surprised is our army guys this fragmented.

Are you a Pakistani?

They are the ones who get surprised and their bravado crumbles!

Are you Mr Generalities?

Those who are shallow, take the cover of generalities!

do discuss with details.

it is such a pleasure to learn from all!

 

[Ray]

India profess Unity in diversity.

A concept that celebrates "unity without uniformity and diversity without fragmentation"

Therefore while Indian culture is s culture that is not one, it incorporates unity without uniformity and celebrates its diversity without fragmentation!

 

[ninja85]

do discuss with details.

it is such a pleasure to learn from all!

"learn from them" ,

how when you are not able to understand them.

 

[Ray]

"learn from them" ,

how when you are not able to understand them.

Learn from whom?

I sure do not understand the Bajrang Dal. Are they your mentors who I should follow as per you?

Then Jai HInd to you. Now this Jai Hind has a different connotation!

And I don't wish to understand from them.

I prefer my secularism and I am ready to embrace all cultures and religions and inputs of all who have come and taken India to be their own.

 

[ninja85]

Learn from whom?

I sure do not understand the Bajrang Dal. Are they your mentors who I should follow as per you?

Then Jai HInd to you. Now this Jai Hind has a different connotation!

And I don't wish to understand from them.

I prefer my secularism and I am ready to embrace all cultures and religions and inputs of all who have come and taken India to be their own.

ha......bajrang dal i am no bajrang dal fan,

you don't even understand jai hind of your army general how you going to understand the rest of india , you quickly called him 'communal' and shouted "disband sikh regiment" over a little thing

then happy secularism to you or may i call it pseudo-secularism

"ready to embrace every culture and religion and input of "ALL" who came to india , "ALL"except the cultures,religion and inputs of your india"

or may be you are not indian , the flag in your profile is england or something.

 

[kseeker]

ha......bajrang dal i am no bajrang dal fan,

you don't even understand jai hind of your army general how you going to understand the rest of india , you quickly called him 'communal' and shouted "disband sikh regiment" over a little thing

then happy secularism to you or may i call it pseudo-secularism

"ready to embrace every culture and religion and input of "ALL" who came to india , "ALL"except the cultures,religion and inputs of your india"

or may be you are not indian , the flag in your profile is england or something.

ninja85, Why are you fuming ? Why is that Red and enlarged font's in your reply ? We can agree to disagree in civilised manner as well !

Please calm down.

 

[Ray]

ha......bajrang dal i am no bajrang dal fan,

you don't even understand jai hind of your army general how you going to understand the rest of india , you quickly called him 'communal' and shouted "disband sikh regiment" over a little thing

then happy secularism to you or may i call it pseudo-secularism

"ready to embrace every culture and religion and input of "ALL" who came to india , "ALL"except the cultures,religion and inputs of your india"

or may be you are not indian , the flag in your profile is england or something.

Total Rubbish.

I have seen wars, the present Chief hasn't.

Jai Hind is hardly the way to instil warlike fervour!

I understand the real Jai Hind and that is not cosmetic!

I come from a time, where things were not cosmetic but real ground level stuff.

My flag can be anything, but it in no way reduces my experience.

I understand India better than your cosmetic nationalism confined to Jai Hind replacing Good Morning and it being the sole and path breaking cataclysmic break from the colonial mindset!

so, don't give me your claptrap.

Your ignorance on all issues resound like a thunderclap!

Keep your pseudo ultra Hinduvta to yourself!

 

[Ray]

ninja85, Why are you fuming ? Why is that Red and enlarged font's in your reply ? We can agree to disagree in civilised manner as well !

Please calm down.

Attention seeker since there is nothing more he can indulge in but generalities and banal cosmetics to make his life!

Here is something to note

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Attention Seeking Behaviors

When a child is not able to get attention from his or her primary caretakers, he or she will do what kids do and act out by saying or doing something that creates some drama. Children do this because negative attention is still attention. We expect this because children are trying to figure out how to do life, and part of their job is to push the boundaries and our buttons.
.
Look, a little drama here and there is a part of life, but making it a lifestyle will not allow you to find peace If you are invested in being a drama queen (or king), you need to take a look at why you think this behaviour is okay.

Ask yourself why you need all the attention. There may be some insecurity or self-esteem issues going on for you. This does not mean that you are bad, broken, or evil; it means that there may be a little hole in your soul and you need to spend some time patching it.

The good news is that you can help yourself to heal, but first you have to acknowledge the need.

 

[Ray]

A ninja (忍者?) or shinobi (忍び?) was a covert agent or mercenary in feudal Japan. The functions of the ninja included espionage, sabotage, infiltration, and assassination, and open combat in certain situations.[1] Their covert methods of waging war contrasted the ninja with the samurai, who observed strict rules about honor and combat.

Wiki

Well, I saw real war observing strict rules about honour and combat!

 

[Ray]

Am I secular?

Do I embrace all cultures and religion?

Don't take it from me.

here it is from someone else

*********************************************************************************

Secularism in the army

By D K Havanoor

In India, secularism is more of a subject of politics than of values.

Plurality of religions, religious pluralism (the view that all religions are equal), and cultural (and communal) concerns greatly influence the various ways in which secularism in India developed and is looked at even now. Unfortunately, in India secularism is more of a subject of politics than of metaphysics or even values.

But in the Indian Army it is absolute secularism with equal respect to all religions, in spite of the fact that infantry, the major component of the Army, comprises of regiments based on caste, creed, culture or race like the Sikh, Maratha, Dogra, Jat, Gorkha, Mahar, Rajput and so on. This may be because the Indian army and most of its procedures and practices have been an inheritance of the British Indian army.

Regardless of its history, today the reality is that even if there is one major caste in a unit, the officers, non-combatants and ministerial staff belong to different castes or religions. Everyone attends the shabad kirtan, namaz, morning mass or mandir parade equally like they belong to that caste or community. During my service in the army, I have been witness to a staunch musalman or Christian bowing before the altar of other religions and vice versa in absolute obeisance. This seldom happens in civil society.

On one occasion in 1986 in my Sikh Light Infantry battalion on a Baisakhi day, I was thrilled to see a granthi, a maulvi, a pastor and a pandit all under one roof in the unit gurudwara offering prayers and participating in the festival. In my opinion, there can never be a better portrait of national integration or secularism.

On another occasion as narrated by my senior Mai Bali, he and his family were having dinner in the Superintendent of Police Hyderabad, ex-Major Basith's place when communal riots were taking place outside in the city. The peaceful dinner between these two people belonging to different religions didn't once get affected by the mood of the riots outside.

Even in my apartment complex, on the storey I reside, there is a Muslim commercial pilot, a Christian business executive and two Hindu families living in perfect harmony. The government hasn't found the need to reorganise the Army along different lines either. The caste-based structure somehow works in the army in spite of having commanders not belonging to the same caste. And these commanders consider their unit as their own family, staying together in peace times and during war. It probably works because the army is a disciplined unit which exists and functions only because of its discipline.

Secularism is a kind of Hobson's choice for India's integrity and the Army is the role model for that. For an Indian soldier, his religion is the Indian Army or the nation and the faith he belongs to doesn't matter as much. I wish our entire country follows in the footsteps of our Army.

Secularism in the army

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And the claptrap that Jai Hind will tranmogrify the IA into something very secular and nationalistic!

There can be no better secularism that what has been narrated in the above article!

 

[ninja85]

ninja85, Why are you fuming ? Why is that Red and enlarged font's in your reply ? We can agree to disagree in civilised manner as well !

Please calm down.

all right, i am not going to continue this on a small issue,

even if i am called attention seeker.

 

[ninja85]

Attention seeker since there is nothing more he can indulge in but generalities and banal cosmetics to make his life!

yep got it.

 

[Ray]

@ninja85,

No hard feelings from my side.

I am sorry if you felt hurt.

I am concerned about the Army and some odd things that are going on (I cannot mention it on an open forum).

It is time to get hold of the real issues is what not only I feel, but many others too.

Therefore, when we see cosmetic things employed to obfuscate the real issues that should be grappled with, one does feel very sorry.

Too much of emphasis is on cosmetic issues and not real issues.

 

[ninja85]

apologies if i said something wrong to anyone, especially to any senior member.

 

[Ray]

apologies if i said something wrong to anyone, especially to any senior member.

You don't have to apologise to anyone.

You spoke what you felt was right and I am sure you have good reason to have that opinion.

It is just that what you felt as very secular and nationalistic, to me it appeared cosmetic since I am aware as to what shape the IA is in and all these cosmetic stuff cannot change the reality.

The reality is not very pleasing or bright to those who served in the IA.

It is time the Nation knows the reality and get all concerned, the minister, bureaucrats and the Army Brass off their seats and give the Nation an Army that can translate the boasts that the Govt makes on the safety of India's territorial integrity.