New Sukhoi base to cover south India

Ray

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New Sukhoi base to cover south India

NEW DELHI: Even as the western and eastern fronts with Pakistan and China are bolstered with additional Sukhoi-30MKI squadrons, India has also kick-started plans to base its most lethal "air dominance'' fighter in south India to keep a "strategic eye'' over Indian Ocean.

Defence minister A K Antony will inaugurate the new airbase at Thanjavur in Tamil Nadu on May 27, which will eventually house a Sukhoi squadron (16 to 18 jets) after the requisite "tech-flight hangers, avionic bays, labs, fuel dumps and other infrastructure'' comes up over the next few years.

"Till then, IAF will keep sending regular fighter and transport aircraft detachments to Thanjavur since the runway and other facilities are in place there now. Long-range fighters (Sukhois have a cruising speed range of 3,200-km) operating from Thanjavur will be able to dominate the crucial Andaman and Nicobar archipelago as well as the Bay of Bengal,'' said a source.

India has so far inducted over 170 of the 272 Sukhoi-30MKIs contracted from Russia in deals worth Rs 55,717 crore ($12.4 billion). Pune and Bareilly already have two Sukhoi squadrons each, while Tezpur, Chabua, Halwara and Jodhpur have a squadron each.

Another squadron is coming up at Sirsa, with Tezpur, Chabua, Jodhpur and Halwara slated to get their second squadrons thereafter. "Thanjavur will get the last Sukhoi squadron by 2018,'' he said.

The Sukhoi squadrons at Tezpur, Chabua and Bareilly are part of the larger "dissuasive deterrence'' being put in place against China. With eight operational airbases in Tibet Autonomous Region (TAR), China can rapidly deploy 21 fighter squadrons against India. China, incidentally, has even taken to conducting major exercises with its J-10, Sukhoi-27UBK and Sukhoi-30MKK fighters in the high-altitude Qinghai-Tibet Plateau in recent times.

The Sukhoi squadrons in Halwara, Sirsa and Jodhpur are meant to counter any misadventure by Pakistan, which is rapidly bolstering its air combat capabilities with American F-16s as well as Chinese JF-17 'Thunder' and F-7 fighters.

IAF would like more fighter squadrons since it is down to just 34 at present, with ageing MiG jets being progressively retired. "Airpower plays the pivotal role in shaping modern battles," an officer said.

To achieve the aim of operating 44 to 45 squadrons over the coming decade, IAF is banking upon the early inking of the $20 billion MMRCA (medium multi-role combat aircraft) project to acquire 126 French Rafale fighters.

The first 18 jets under the MMRCA project will come in "fly-away condition'' from 2017 onwards, with the rest 108 fighters being manufactured under licence by Hindustan Aeronautics. After being derailed for some months due to differences between HAL and French aviation major Dassault, the complex final negotiations in the MMRCA project are back on track now.

New Sukhoi base to cover south India - The Times of India

********************************

Strategic vision finally dawns a wee bit!
 

SajeevJino

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Why they need Air Dominance fighters in sea Shores.. we have Vikarmaditya and IAC 1 Holding some Air Superiority fighters like MiG 29K ..So placing some ASW and Anti Ship Missile Carrying Planes like P8i or IL 38 is Good move
 

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The USAF says:

The degrees of control of the air are:

a. Favorable Air Situation. A favorable air situation is one in which the extent of the air effort applied by the enemy air forces is insufficient to prejudice the success of friendly land, sea or air operations.

b. Air Superiority. Air Superiority can be defined as that degree of dominance in the air battle of one force over another which permits the conduct of operations by the former and its related land, sea and air forces at a given place and time without prohibitive interference by the opposing force (AAP-6).

c. Air Supremacy. Air Supremacy is that degree of control of the air wherein opposing forces are incapable of effective interference with friendly air operations.

AP3000 agrees, in that it says exactly the same thing!:

Air Superiority. That degree of dominance in the air battle of one force over another which permits the conduct of operations by the former and its related land, sea and air forces at a given time and place without prohibitive interference by the opposing force.

Air Supremacy. That degree of air superiority wherein the opposing air force is
incapable of effective interference.

So what is Air Dominance?
Air Superiority, Air Supremacy, Air Dominance? [Archive] - PPRuNe Forums

or could it be

My understanding (which could well be wrong) is that air superiority can be a temporary thing. An example - when a huge package is going into the badlands, the F15Cs clear out the red air, and provide air superiority for the period while the muddies get on with their work. However, when the package all goes home, then the enemy still has fighters etc that can cause problems at a later time.

Air supremacy is the next step up, when you've wiped out most of your enemy's air force and they're only capable of throwing up the odd aircraft to cause the occasional nuisance.

Air dominance is when they have nothing left, either in terms of airframes, or the 'will to fight'.

So in the Iraqi context, you might say that during Op Southern Watch, the coalition had air superiority in the southern no-fly zone during a 'vul' period, but perhaps not 24/7. During the opening days of GW1 the coalition had air supremacy, but the odd Iraqi still got airborne. During Iraqi Freedom though, with the Iraqis burying their aircraft, and when I don't believe a single one got airborne, you'd say that the coalition had air dominance. It's all in the nuance of the level of 'interference' the enemy can or does cause.

A favourable air situation would be one when the enemy are still coming up in numbers for a fight, but you can get the job you're trying to do done. eg Korea in Mig Alley perhaps.

I might be totally wrong of course, and ready to stand corrected by the doctrine gurus out there, but that's my take on it.

Single Seat, Single Engine, The Only Way To Fly
or

From the horse's mouth..

Air Dominance
"I would describe the difference between 'air dominance' and 'air superiority' as one of magnitude of ability to influence events in a given piece of airspace. For instance, when you begin to conduct any kind of a combat or theater-wide operation, normally that theater commander's first priority is to make sure that you have air superiority over your own troops, [which should] generally guarantee that you will not have your troops attacked. . . . The next stage has been called air supremacy, where you, for all intents and purposes, not only are able to defend your own people, but you pretty much dominate the space. You can operate at will in there. Air dominance . . . is a term that's sort of grown up in the last couple of years in joint doctrine. . . . Dominance to me is kind of an extension of the supremacy idea that says, 'Nothing moves or operates in that guy's airspace.' I mean, you totally control it. It's a step above."
General Fogleman, in March 14, 1996, testimony before the Senate Armed Services Committee.
--------------------------------------------

An alternate view here:

"What the concepts of air superiority and supremacy lack is the consideration of the effectiveness of airpower to achieve objectives after an air force attains either. An enemy which has been defeated in the air may still prevent air dominance through a variety of means ranging from ground-to-air attacks to attacks on friendly airbases. The domestic procurement budget may also prevent air dominance due to a lack of understanding, hence funding, for any of the links of the air dominance chain".

Which would suggest the difference is in your ability to achieve your objectives after achieving air supremacy. This might be by prevented by enemy SAW concentrations, camouflage, use of hostages etc or by failing to have the types of precision or penetration weapons to exploit the supremacy achieved.

I would offer the proposition that we had air supremacy over Serbia, but not air dominance.
all from

Air Superiority, Air Supremacy, Air Dominance? [Archive] - PPRuNe Forums

Interesting to say the least.

If it is temporary dominance, then what is Combat Air Patrol?

The manner in which these new nomenclatures are coined, it become real difficult to understand what exactly they stand for. In fact, it is more for selling merchandise or acting wise.

What is counter insurgency, COIN, asymmetric warfare, sub conventional warfare, counter terrorist warfare?

Where does the difference lie?

I would be very obliged to know the differences of the issue mentioned - one on the air warfare and the other on counter insurgency.
 
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AVERAGE INDIAN

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once the naval air arm comes to its full strength i don't think IAF has much to contribute in southern India just base a squadron of tejas in thanjavur and Su 30 mki at Andaman which will be complemented by mig 29k's from IAC1 or vikramaditiya P8I's then IAF can completely concentrate Pakistan and Chinese
 
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santosh_g

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Why they need Air Dominance fighters in sea Shores.. we have Vikarmaditya and IAC 1 Holding some Air Superiority fighters like MiG 29K ..So placing some ASW and Anti Ship Missile Carrying Planes like P8i or IL 38 is Good move
what will we do if situation requires to bomb Srilanka (hope there wont be such situation in near future but cant predict international politics :rolleyes:)??? we can finish of bombing with MKI's with one or two air refuels.
 

Ray

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Hey, no one is answering my query.
 

santosh_g

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Hey, no one is answering my query.
sir , form my understanding both air superiority and supremacy are some how not only related to air to air battles but also to support land and naval forces so that they can penetrate to enemy space. probably air dominance is the first step to achieve air superiority. for example in our case we use MKI's with some supporting aircrafts first to cleanup the enemy air space (dominance). then we ask land forces to move forward and provide support to land forces in a way where enemy air force really cant attack us ( in one sense continue air dominance along with supporting ground forces) and will be pushed back further in an attempt to defend their air space. air supremacy is a state where we complete demolish enemies air-force and land forces in such way that they wont be able to recover and fight back.
 

Ray

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Thanks.

Why I asked is because I wonder if it is ever feasible to have complete domination of the air, except for a limited intervals having put a huge air assets in action, to achieve that.

Even so, sneak enemy aircraft can still penetrate.

So, would it be air superiority and not total dominance?

I have always wanted to know of issues in clear terms so that I can understand. But these days, there is a barrage of terminology bandied, thanks to the American penchant to reinvent the wheel and appear innovative.

Take RMA (Revolution in Military Affairs). I find it amusing that to appear fancy any and everything is being claimed as RMA.

It has to be a revolution that affect a dramatic change in the application of warfare and not a merely added innovation.
 
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AVERAGE INDIAN

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what will we do if situation requires to bomb Srilanka (hope there wont be such situation in near future but cant predict international politics :rolleyes:)??? we can finish of bombing with MKI's with one or two air refuels.
santosh first you don't need to refuel a mki to bomb srilanka once fueled MKI has the range to do the job, second any ship in the eastern naval command can do that heck a jaguar jet can finish the job decently or a prithvi missile, and Indian Navies mig 29k's has the power to do that job as well
 
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Ray

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santosh first you don't need to refuel a mki to bomb srilanka once fueled MKI has the range to do the job, second any ship in the eastern naval command can do that heck a jaguar jet can finish the job decently or a prithvi missile, and Indian Navies mig 29k's has the power to do that job as well
I think it is more than SL that these aircraft are being based there.
 

SajeevJino

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what will we do if situation requires to bomb Srilanka (hope there wont be such situation in near future but cant predict international politics :rolleyes:)??? we can finish of bombing with MKI's with one or two air refuels.
santosh first you don't need to refuel a mki to bomb srilanka once fueled MKI has the range to do the job, second any ship in the eastern naval command can do that heck a jaguar jet can finish the job decently or a prithvi missile, and Indian Navies mig 29k's has the power to do that job as well
Guys I think you Forget our Coast Guard ..They are enough to face Sri Lanka
 

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New Sukhoi base to cover south India

NEW DELHI: Even as the western and eastern fronts with Pakistan and China are bolstered with additional Sukhoi-30MKI squadrons, India has also kick-started plans to base its most lethal "air dominance'' fighter in south India to keep a "strategic eye'' over Indian Ocean.

Defence minister A K Antony will inaugurate the new airbase at Thanjavur in Tamil Nadu on May 27, which will eventually house a Sukhoi squadron (16 to 18 jets) after the requisite "tech-flight hangers, avionic bays, labs, fuel dumps and other infrastructure'' comes up over the next few years.

"Till then, IAF will keep sending regular fighter and transport aircraft detachments to Thanjavur since the runway and other facilities are in place there now. Long-range fighters (Sukhois have a cruising speed range of 3,200-km) operating from Thanjavur will be able to dominate the crucial Andaman and Nicobar archipelago as well as the Bay of Bengal,'' said a source.

India has so far inducted over 170 of the 272 Sukhoi-30MKIs contracted from Russia in deals worth Rs 55,717 crore ($12.4 billion). Pune and Bareilly already have two Sukhoi squadrons each, while Tezpur, Chabua, Halwara and Jodhpur have a squadron each.

Another squadron is coming up at Sirsa, with Tezpur, Chabua, Jodhpur and Halwara slated to get their second squadrons thereafter. "Thanjavur will get the last Sukhoi squadron by 2018,'' he said.

The Sukhoi squadrons at Tezpur, Chabua and Bareilly are part of the larger "dissuasive deterrence'' being put in place against China. With eight operational airbases in Tibet Autonomous Region (TAR), China can rapidly deploy 21 fighter squadrons against India. China, incidentally, has even taken to conducting major exercises with its J-10, Sukhoi-27UBK and Sukhoi-30MKK fighters in the high-altitude Qinghai-Tibet Plateau in recent times.

The Sukhoi squadrons in Halwara, Sirsa and Jodhpur are meant to counter any misadventure by Pakistan, which is rapidly bolstering its air combat capabilities with American F-16s as well as Chinese JF-17 'Thunder' and F-7 fighters.

IAF would like more fighter squadrons since it is down to just 34 at present, with ageing MiG jets being progressively retired. "Airpower plays the pivotal role in shaping modern battles," an officer said.

To achieve the aim of operating 44 to 45 squadrons over the coming decade, IAF is banking upon the early inking of the $20 billion MMRCA (medium multi-role combat aircraft) project to acquire 126 French Rafale fighters.

The first 18 jets under the MMRCA project will come in "fly-away condition'' from 2017 onwards, with the rest 108 fighters being manufactured under licence by Hindustan Aeronautics. After being derailed for some months due to differences between HAL and French aviation major Dassault, the complex final negotiations in the MMRCA project are back on track now.

New Sukhoi base to cover south India - The Times of India

********************************

Strategic vision finally dawns a wee bit!
So MMRCA planes would start coming in 2017 and the deal is still not finalized :dude:

Seems like the deal is gonna be air-borne :lol:
 

santosh_g

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Thanks.

Why I asked is because I wonder if it is ever feasible to have complete domination of the air, except for a limited intervals having put a huge air assets in action, to achieve that.
Even so, sneak enemy aircraft can still penetrate.
So, would it be air superiority and not total dominance?
sir , an example might be good in this case. take the case of US-Iraq war. first phase is to dominate Iraqi airspace with sufficient number to shoot down all iraqi aircrafts. this is an air to air battle where fighters fight first and (probably role of MKI's in our case). completion of phase one gives US air superiority. then with that they will attack enemy bunkers , ground forces, do some corpet bombing stuff ,bla bla bla to make sure that US land forces can easily occupy the land. end of this will give supremacy as nothing can stop US airforce as enemy airforce and land forces are down. now Us aircrafts can fly like free birds in enemy airspace. please correct me if i am wrong sir.
 

Kunal Biswas

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Two reasons :

1. SU-30MKI are also act as mini AWACS, They can establish connection with other fighter such as Tejas and Bisons in the same areas and coordinate them..

2. They cover entire Bay of Bengal and any incursion via spy boat or enemy vessel can be intercepted faster compare to a destroyer..


"Till then, IAF will keep sending regular fighter and transport aircraft detachments to Thanjavur since the runway and other facilities are in place there now. Long-range fighters (Sukhois have a cruising speed range of 3,200-km) operating from Thanjavur will be able to dominate the crucial Andaman and Nicobar archipelago as well as the Bay of Bengal,'' said a source.
 

Ray

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sir , an example might be good in this case. take the case of US-Iraq war. first phase is to dominate Iraqi airspace with sufficient number to shoot down all iraqi aircrafts. this is an air to air battle where fighters fight first and (probably role of MKI's in our case). completion of phase one gives US air superiority. then with that they will attack enemy bunkers , ground forces, do some corpet bombing stuff ,bla bla bla to make sure that US land forces can easily occupy the land. end of this will give supremacy as nothing can stop US airforce as enemy airforce and land forces are down. now Us aircrafts can fly like free birds in enemy airspace. please correct me if i am wrong sir.
You are right.

One could also compare the IAF supremacy over East Pakistan in 1971.

But one is talking about equal air forces.
 

W.G.Ewald

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Hey, no one is answering my query.
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New Sukhoi base to cover south India
:india:
Even as the western and eastern fronts with Pakistan and China are bolstered with additional Sukhoi-30MKI squadrons, India has also kick-started plans to base its most lethal "air dominance" fighter in south India to keep a "strategic eye" over Indian Ocean.

Defence minister A K Antony will inaugurate the new airbase at Thanjavur in Tamil Nadu on May 27, which will eventually house a Sukhoi squadron (16 to 18 jets) after the requisite "tech-flight hangers, avionic bays, labs, fuel dumps and other infrastructure" comes up over the next few years.

"Till then, IAF will keep sending regular fighter and transport aircraft detachments to Thanjavur since the runway and other facilities are in place there now. Long-range fighters (Sukhois have a cruising speed range of 3,200-km) operating from Thanjavur will be able to dominate the crucial Andaman and Nicobar archipelago as well as the Bay of Bengal," said a source.

India has so far inducted over 170 of the 272 Sukhoi-30MKIs contracted from Russia in deals worth Rs 55,717 crore ($12.4 billion). Pune and Bareilly already have two Sukhoi squadrons each, while Tezpur, Chabua, Halwara and Jodhpur have a squadron each.

Another squadron is coming up at Sirsa, with Tezpur, Chabua, Jodhpur and Halwara slated to get their second squadrons thereafter. "Thanjavur will get the last Sukhoi squadron by 2018," he said.

The Sukhoi squadrons at Tezpur, Chabua and Bareilly are part of the larger "dissuasive deterrence" being put in place against China. With eight operational airbases in Tibet Autonomous Region (TAR), China can rapidly deploy 21 fighter squadrons against India. China, incidentally, has even taken to conducting major exercises with its J-10, Sukhoi-27UBK and Sukhoi-30MKK fighters in the high-altitude Qinghai-Tibet Plateau in recent times.

The Sukhoi squadrons in Halwara, Sirsa and Jodhpur are meant to counter any misadventure by Pakistan, which is rapidly bolstering its air combat capabilities with American F-16s as well as Chinese JF-17 'Thunder' and F-7 fighters.

IAF would like more fighter squadrons since it is down to just 34 at present, with ageing MiG jets being progressively retired. "Airpower plays the pivotal role in shaping modern battles," an officer said.

To achieve the aim of operating 44 to 45 squadrons over the coming decade, IAF is banking upon the early inking of the $20 billion MMRCA (medium multi-role combat aircraft) project to acquire 126 French Rafale fighters.

The first 18 jets under the MMRCA project will come in "fly-away condition" from 2017 onwards, with the rest 108 fighters being manufactured under licence by Hindustan Aeronautics. After being derailed for some months due to differences between HAL and French aviation major Dassault, the complex final negotiations in the MMRCA project are back on track now.
New Sukhoi base to cover south India | idrw.org
 

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