New Assault Rifles for Indian Army

[devhensh]

Isn't the DRDO MCIWS supposed to be something similar? Btw, can anyone tell me what happened to that project?

1. As per my limited information, Army isn't interested in that project. Somebody with better contacts can confirm.

2. The MDR is a Bullpup config, modular rifle which can take any caliber from 7.62x51 , 6.8 SPC, 6.8 Creedmore , 5.56mm with changes in barrel and action.....Whereas the DRDO rifle is conventional layout, and i think it takes only 7.62x39, 6.8SPC and 5.56mm...as far as i know it's not designed for 7.62x51mm, which i think is a must.....You can draw the conclusions, based on this

 

[devhensh]

Now that US Army is looking for COTS 7.62×51 rifles, companies will divert their attention towards US and not India. Despite the interim order is only for 10,000 pieces, huge market exists for civilian ownership.

Also, USMC has ordered 50,000 units of M27 IAR making it it's standard rifle by default. This esstentially rules out H&K in terms of negotiation regardless of the roumors of HK not selling to Non NATO countries.

To add to your list, HK 416 has won the huge French Service rifle contract as well as they are competing for the new German Rifle contracts...So their order books are full.

But HK has such huge manufacturing bases in US and Europe with surplus capacity...using which they can easily meet more demand..but that contract, if it ever happens, will have be through govenment FMS channel....

I am not an advocate for India going for a foreign rifle....
But the point is...If Army is hellbent for a foreign design....then we should go for the best (FN SCAR or HK416 in that order) and not some 50 year old designs...

 

[sthf]

But HK has such huge manufacturing bases in US and Europe with surplus capacity...using which they can easily meet more demand..but that contract, if it ever happens, will have be through govenment FMS channel....

It's not about the production capability of HK but upper hand in negotiations. You can't possibly negotiate a good deal with a company who is doing as well as HK.

 

[devhensh]

It's not about the production capability of HK but upper hand in negotiations. You can't possibly negotiate a good deal with a company who is doing as well as HK.

http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/...irm-heckler-koch-reportedly-e170-million-red/

Well ....HK is not doing very well ....is it ?? It can definitely use more business and orders.....
Anyways, i won't waste anymore time on this hypothetical question, of if India will buy from HK....

 

[devhensh]

Actually, FN SCAR 17 (7.62x51mm) is a much better option (compared to HK 416 or HK 417)..... for Indian needs...

But to put the entire thing in perspective....India should develop a Modular rifle platform (on lines of these two) and induct it in masses ASAP.... as we needed these rifles(like yesterday) with the bloody Chinkis & Pakis knocking on our door.....

If for some reason, if a indigenous rifle is not acceptable, we should get the most relaible foriegn rifle with TOT...and build in India....Again, these rifles need to be inducted ASAP...as these are the need of hour...

 

[abingdonboy]

To add to your list, HK 416 has won the huge French Service rifle contract as well as they are competing for the new German Rifle contracts...So their order books are full.

But HK has such huge manufacturing bases in US and Europe with surplus capacity...using which they can easily meet more demand..but that contract, if it ever happens, will have be through govenment FMS channel....

I am not an advocate for India going for a foreign rifle....
But the point is...If Army is hellbent for a foreign design....then we should go for the best (FN SCAR or HK416 in that order) and not some 50 year old designs...

It's not about the production capability of HK but upper hand in negotiations. You can't possibly negotiate a good deal with a company who is doing as well as HK.

http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/...irm-heckler-koch-reportedly-e170-million-red/

Well ....HK is not doing very well ....is it ?? It can definitely use more business and orders.....
Anyways, i won't waste anymore time on this hypothetical question, of if India will buy from HK....

Btw, HK has offically refused to ink any new deals with India (as of 2016).

 

[Aghore_King]

Btw, HK has offically refused to ink any new deals with India (as of 2016).

.....................But why??.......................

 

[Vinod DX9]

.....................But why??.......................

No more deals with non NATO countries.

 

[Kchontha]

I'm neither siding with the indigenous rifles nor with the foreign made rifles. At the movement ofb 7.62x51 mm rifle has the advantage of headstart over other foreign made rifles since it is the only rifle selected for user trial by the IA and no other rifles is selected or invited for the same.

 

[ezsasa]

I'm neither siding with the indigenous rifles nor with the foreign made rifles. At the movement ofb 7.62x51 mm rifle has the advantage of headstart over other foreign made rifles since it is the only rifle selected for user trial by the IA and no other rifles is selected or invited for the same.

only when RFP is released we will know which companies are being preferred by IA. right now this procurement is in RFI phase.

 

[sthf]

Btw, HK has offically refused to ink any new deals with India (as of 2016).

If you are talking about the report that HK will not sell firearms to "un-democratic" countries which includes India then it hasn't been confirmed. It was a report by a German newspaper citing anonymous HK manager, not by an official press release.

 

[ezsasa]

If you are talking about the report that HK will not sell firearms to "un-democratic" countries which includes India then it hasn't been confirmed. It was a report by a German newspaper citing anonymous HK manager, not by an official press release.

Official stand is that they won't sell it to non-NATO countries.

 

[sthf]

Official stand is that they won't sell it to non-NATO countries.

I didn't come across a valid source but given the schizophrenic nature of German foreign policy it could be true.

 

[devhensh]

I didn't come across a valid source but given the schizophrenic nature of German foreign policy it could be true.

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-germany-heckler-koch-idUSKBN13N1JQ
Yes, HK did make an announcement, but let's analyze, our options..

In a hypothetical scenario...where Indian Army has made a firm decision of going for a foreign rifle ...i think the two below are the best options :

1. Best option would be the FN SCAR H in 7.62x51mm and we should get it through Foreign Military Sales (FMS) route from Belgium...FMS is always faster and cheaper......Best thing is, we do have FN SCARs in service (with SFF i think), so a detailed track record is already there...Also the SACR H can be easily converted to diffrent calibers with some changes ..(7.62x39, 5.56x45 and PDW)....so it covers all our operational needs...
Detailed TOT and manufacture of all rifles in India(after a initial batch purchase) ...should be a must for both options..

2. Second option can be to get the latest from HK ( HK433 and not HK416). Again this would be through Foreign Military Sales (FMS) by engaging German Government...HK will be quite happy to sell, if they get Government approval .... That approval will be very easy to get as our relations with Germany have improved manifolds with Modi's latest visits ....also Germany needs India's support on many issues like the "Climate Accord"

http://www.gunsandtech.com/news/tyan/new-hk433-rifle-german-military/

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-germany-india-idUSKBN18Q0ZJ

 

[devhensh]

This Article is about the first test reports of HK433 rifle which is the Top Contender to win the German Army new rifle contract....The bar is set very high for it, as it will be replacing HK G36 and supposed to be better than HK416........

I hope our Indian Gun designers take the best features of these new designs and build the best rifle in world !!! Designing a new rifle is not Rocket Science(which we are already good at)

http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2017/08/18/hk433-first-practical-test/

 

[Flame Thrower]

When going through firearm videos, I found this one.

I remember a thread for 7.62*51 NATO, couldn't find the appropriate thread.

Here is a bit of history.


PS. Are we still using 12 inch bayonets!?

 

[Johny_Baba]

When going through firearm videos, I found this one.

I remember a thread for 7.62*51 NATO, couldn't find the appropriate thread.

Here is a bit of history.


PS. Are we still using 12 inch bayonets!?

Yeah,Ishapore Rifles are quite famous in western gun markets.

Like Kunal Dada said once somewhere here,we should've converted these Ishapore 2A1s into bolt action sniper rifles,similar to those L42 Lee-Enfield Sniper Rifles which were used by SAS and other commonwealth armies.

Edit: Indeed OFB had produced a sniper variant of Ishapore 2A1,but it seems like many other guns made by OFB/DRDO it went in vain.

 

[Kunal Biswas]

No, We don`t use 12 inch bayonets ..

 

[devhensh]

No, We don`t use 12 inch bayonets ..

12 inches ! WOW ! I bet our enemies used to wet their pants when they saw our brave Jawans with those ....

The below bayonet is one of the longest (8 inches) current service issue (Marine Corps, USA). It's very highly regarded by service men ....also, i have handled my friends bayonet ,and it's very well balanced and fluid like a good fighting and general purpose knife...

 

[Flame Thrower]

12 inches ! WOW ! I bet our enemies used to wet their pants when they saw our brave Jawans with those ....

The below bayonet is one of the longest (8 inches) current service issue (Marine Corps, USA). It's very highly regarded by service men ....also, i have handled my friends bayonet ,and it's very well balanced and fluid like a good fighting and general purpose knife...

View attachment 19235

British proposed 16/17 inch bayonet replacing the existing i.e. 12 inch one. As a result weight of the gun increased.

IA didn't accept it through, we also adopted smokeless powder prior to British.

Source: Forgotten Weapons (YouTube).

You can also visit C&Rsenal. C&R mostly focusing on WW1 firearms.