New Assault Rifles for Indian Army

[Gessler]

Why is JVPC not even being considered ?

The initial trial batch produced for Army trials had failed the MRBF (Mean Rounds Between Failure) parameters. OFB had hoped that quality in production could be stabilized if they get some orders from CAPFs and Police units first. They did get several orders from MHA forces.

However, I haven't heard anything regarding them submitting a fresh batch for re-trials.

In the meantime IA couldn't wait till eternity for Ordnance Factories to figure out how to get consistent quality control across a production batch, and decided to go in for the foreign carbine tender.

Now, obviously there aren't any rifles/carbines in production right now in the world that use the 5.56x30mm cartridge (Colt experimented with some models in ages past, since abandoned).

So 5.56x45mm was only choice.

Personally, I'm happy we went in for the x45 instead of the x30 MINSAS. The x30 in my opinion is a half-a$$ed cartridge. Neither it offers the small dimensions & light weight afforded by pistol-calibre rounds like 9x19, nor the full power of a rifle-calibre cartridge of 45mm length.

The whole point of having a small gun is that it should afford a good compromise between size & stopping power. In an age where one can easily get carbines firing full-power rifle rounds with 11" barrels and weights in neighbourhood of 3 kgs, the utility or reasoning behind creation of a weapon in similar dimensions & weight but shooting a much less powerful midrange round like 5.56x30 frankly escapes me.

However, if OFB manages to reduce the weight of the JVPC to around 2 kgs, and trim its bulk, it could be an interesting alternative to the HK MP7 that many SF units might want to get their hands on (if quality control could be fixed, that is).

But I have doubts how well the recoil of a 5.56 bore (even with the less powerful x30 cartridge) can be controlled on a 2 kg weapon. They may have to tune down the calibre to something similar to the MP7's pretty effective 4.6mm in order to be an effective & controllable PDW.

 

[porky_kicker]

New carbine...........

 

[binayak95]

New carbine...........

View attachment 34533

This design has been floating around for some months now.

Looks like an FNC clone (not that it is a bad thing!)

I seriously hope they get their QC on track or the IA will chuck this gun out as well.

Seriously, we are getting Punj Lloyd made X95s for CHEAPER than INSAS 1B1s.

 

[samsaptaka]

Expecting OFB and Govt PSUs to produce quality is quite a wish I’m afraid. It is so frustrating that we cannot privatize it ...

 

[devhensh]

This is possibly the most advanced LMG/ IAR (similar to Ultimax 100), utilizing the "constant-recoil operating system".

How i wish, DRDO developed something like this for our Indian Armed forces. Or as we have a separate Tender for LMGs; we procure this one or Ultimax 100 for our forces.

https://www.full30.com/watch/MDIwMTc1/knights-assault-machine-guns-at-the-range

 

[binayak95]

Oh damn, Ian did a video on these on Forgotten Weapons. That 5.56 200 round mag dump was INSANE

This is possibly the most advanced LMG/ IAR (similar to Ultimax 100), utilizing the "constant-recoil operating system".

How i wish, DRDO developed something like this for our Indian Armed forces. Or as we have a separate Tender for LMGs; we procure this one or Ultimax 100 for our forces.

https://www.full30.com/watch/MDIwMTc1/knights-assault-machine-guns-at-the-range

 

[indiatester]

Happy to hear that the assault weapon problem is not unique to us

 

[rkhanna]

Happy to hear that the assault weapon problem is not unique to us

Hmm

1. The G36 replacement is a political decision not a military need one. Most German units surveyed were perfectly happy with the G36 (source SOFrep). The need to change out the gun is about infusing money into the economy and throwing HK a lifeline

2. M4 - after anumber of trials the M4 has be retained as the primary long gun of the us military. The rectification of it's shortcomings were done by changing the type of ammo and introducing a better Barrell.

3. Russia was working on changing their AKM/74/103 line (which is nearly 30 years old) with a more modern weapon. Hence the An12 and An94 series. Different gun manufacturers competing to be the next gun of the federation


Sorry but jha has it all wrong. Nothing compared to us.

We butchered our domestic small arms industry and then decided to buy guns of every caliber from all the manufacturers of the world like a kid wanting to have every model of the iPhone. The logic and logistics of which still elude us

 

[nongaddarliberal]

Happy to hear that the assault weapon problem is not unique to us

All the 3 countries mentioned will only procure assault rifles from their own industry. So even if they are unhappy with the present rifles, the replacement rifles will be their own. Unlike us who simply gave up on designing an indigenous rifle and are procuring 3 different rifles from 3 different countries in 3 different calibres.

 

[Illusive]

Can't a pvt group like kalyani develop small arms or is there a ban.

 

[Anikastha]

Can't a pvt group like kalyani develop small arms or is there a ban.

hal and ofb have monopoly on their respective fields...... this must change.....enough of capitalism crap....

 

[ezsasa]

Can't a pvt group like kalyani develop small arms or is there a ban.

Earlier there was an issue with testing sites and ammo procurement for testing.

Now testing sites has been resolved, not sure if ammo procurement for testing has been resolved.

Mahindra did try getting into the business using steyr as their platform, but it flopped. This was 8-10 years ago.

 

[Shaitan]

Can't a pvt group like kalyani develop small arms or is there a ban.

They partnered with some one to produce them, but the small arms process is such a mess in India they may never see any orders. Funny how they have better luck in arty than small arms.

 

[samsaptaka]

hal and ofb have monopoly on their respective fields...... this must change.....enough of capitalism crap....

Should be enough of 'socialism' crap ??

 

[Anikastha]

Should be enough of 'socialism' crap ??

yea....my bad....socialism........

 

[Chinmoy]

Can't a pvt group like kalyani develop small arms or is there a ban.

Good Question............ Few days back when I asked the same question in a group, the members got all tempered up. They got it totally wrong that I am supporting OFB maal.

Our politics has left no stones unturned in killing the domestic arm production. We excelled only on those which we could not bring or license produce from others. Else it was always license buildup and screw driver giri for us.

Now even after the norms has been relaxed, no one has came forward to take up the initiative on its own. Why? Firing range and ammo are just excuses at their best.

Any private industry would only take up an endeavor only if it sense profit in it. The very reason why company like PunjLyod has formed a JV with IWI to produce spares and subcomponents, but didnt dared to invest in R&D or independent production. Same goes with Kalyani. They produced their first arty with a team of novice. But even today not dared to venture into small arm segment. Look at the Dhruv saga. Even after HAL showed willingness to pass on the manufacturing of civilian variant, have you seen any private party showing interest in it? Although Mahindra and TATA are already active in aeronautical industry.

Why????

Simple. Without a viable and promising market, private companies would not take the risk of investment.

 

[Pandeyji]

M4 - after anumber of trials the M4 has be retained as the primary long gun of the us military. The rectification of it's shortcomings were done by changing the type of ammo and introducing a better Barrell.

You couldn't be more wrong here. The debate on M4 is as old as the rifle itself & so do the solutions proposed.

All the 3 countries mentioned will only procure assault rifles from their own industry.

No. The Germans, iirc are going for a French rifle & the Yanks are looking at H&K

 

[nongaddarliberal]

You couldn't be more wrong here. The debate on M4 is as old as the rifle itself & so do the solutions proposed.


No. The Germans, iirc are going for a French rifle & the Yanks are looking at H&K

What is the French rifle the Germans are going for? The French themselves are going to adopt the HK416, which is German. The US Army has made no real plans to replace it's M4's yet. Only the marine corps is moving to the m27.

 

[rkhanna]

You couldn't be more wrong here. The debate on M4 is as old as the rifle itself & so do the solutions proposed.

The US Army and the US Marine Corp has run systematic Small Arms replacement trials for nearly a decade.

And when did i say the debate is isnt as old as the rifle?

but What was the Result and how am i wrong?

 

[Prashant12]

Amethi factory to get orders for 6.7 lakh Kalashnikovs soon


New Delhi: The rifles factory in Amethi is set to get an order to manufacture a record 6.7 lakh Kalashnikovs soon, with the Army clearing the technical gates and commercial bid likely to be submitted by next month. The Indo-Russian Rifles Private Limited joint venture for production of AK 203 assault rifles is likely to get the go-ahead at an acquisition meeting later this month and will move to the next stage of signing of the contract to start manufacturing.

While the factory in Amethi was formally inaugurated in March, orders are yet to be placed as they had to go through the acquisition process of negotiating technical and commercial terms. ET has learnt that as per the plan, Russia will transfer complete technology on the modern assault rifle to India.

In the initial phase, 6.7 lakh rifles will be made for the Army and the number will increase later to at least 7.5 lakh as requirements of other forces are also added to the order. To achieve technology transfer, it is planned that after the first one lakh rifles, all components of the weapon system will be produced in India.

A top Army officer said the joint venture is a good example of how India has achieved technology transfer through planned acquisitions. The joint venture to produce Kalashnikov rifles has been described as the ‘fastest’ created by Russia for an Indian venture. The factory has already started getting functional with the supply of equipment to manufacture weapons and in an exception, a serving Major General of the Army has been tasked to head it.

The project is expected to produce AK 203 rifles that will cost close to $1000 each.

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