Naxals attack passenger train in Bihar; firing on

[Ray]

My wuestion is if they were there for an arms loot,, then why 100 of maoist came for the attack to loot two SLR or Insas?

Arms is secondary.

They had to prove that the Maoists are not a spent force and they would act at a place and time of their own choosing.

Of late, owing to a variety of reasons, basically their leaders were either killed or taken into custody there was a lull.

However, with the Chhatisgarh killings by the Maoists, it appears that they have reorganised and now back to asserting themselves.

The success of the train attack was because the Govt thought they had the Maoist problem under control and complacency had set in.

 

[pmaitra]

There can be various possibilities.

• They came to loot arms.
• They attacked the train, to get the CRPF on its way and another Maoist group would ambush them.
• They attacked the train, as a diversionary attack, to draw forces from other areas, and target another area, which is their main target.

So who gave them the Intelligence about arms on train.

N. Modi was right, from top to bottom the whole anti Maoist effort is compromised.

Armed RPF on trains is a common thing for many years now. One does not need a certain Narendra Modi to deliver this revelation to us. Anyone who travels by trains knows this.

It would be against the Govt policy to use air against terrorists, who are Indians.

Sir, we can certainly use Mil-24/35 in close air support. With their speed, they can reach very close to the battle-zone, go real close to the Maoists, and take them out. The Maoists have no weapon, to the best of my knowledge, that can defeat the formidable armour of the Mil-24/35. We are not randomly killing civilians, We are only using helicopters to kill armed Maoists, and I think that is fair. The only issue is to first transfer these gunship to, or procure new ones for, Home Ministry Forces.

 

[Ray]

Sir, we can certainly use Mil-24/35 in close air support. With their speed, they can reach very close to the battle-zone, go real close to the Maoists, and take them out. The Maoists have no weapon, to the best of my knowledge, that can defeat the formidable armour of the Mil-24/35. We are not randomly killing civilians, We are only using helicopters to kill armed Maoists, and I think that is fair. The only issue is to first transfer these gunship to, or procure new ones for, Home Ministry Forces.

Indeed AH (Armed Helicopters) can be used.

However, the Govt policy is that we must use 'minimum force' against insurgents or homegrown terrorists since they are but still considered as citizens (if only misled) of the Nation.

That is why in CI we mothball all heavy weapons, to include infantry heavy weapons and only use infantry light weapons, whether the troops used are Infantry, RR, Armoured or Artillery personnel.

Use of air, artillery and tanks are simply not used.

Therefore, Armed Helicopters cannot be used, not because of any other reason, but for Govt policy.

As far as the Railway Protection Police is concerned, there could be no other force so untrained and totally unfit for any task that is on their charter of duties.

 

[Sabir]

Attack helicopters to fire on Naxals near and/or aboard a train full of people? Are you daft, sir?

No....but to ensure that there is no trap waiting for teams being sent do deal with the situation. Even if there is no trap, the Maoists would go back to jungle once they are outnumbered after the reinforcement. It is easier to inflict damage on them from air rather than adopting old combing operation.

 

[Sabir]

It would be against the Govt policy to use air against terrorists, who are Indians.

It is a wrong policy and only lead to more casualties to the security forces. I am not asking to do carpet bombing on the villages but track down the maoists and break their morals by inflicting some damges with the help of attack helicopters. Other options like combing operations or petrolling etc are not going to do much. If the insurgents become strong and audacious enough to ambush and annihilate a 80men strong Para-military battelion, better we dont create a " own citizen" theory. Even if some leaders are arrested or killed; few thousands armed men in the jungle living on extortion and loot will be a great headache for the law and order.

 

[pmaitra]

Attack helicopters to fire on Naxals near and/or aboard a train full of people? Are you daft, sir?

This baby can do the job pretty accurately, my good Sir, and at the same time, keep collateral damage to the minimum.

 

[Ray]

It is a wrong policy and only lead to more casualties to the security forces. I am not asking to do carpet bombing on the villages but track down the maoists and break their morals by inflicting some damges with the help of attack helicopters. Other options like combing operations or petrolling etc are not going to do much. If the insurgents become strong and audacious enough to ambush and annihilate a 80men strong Para-military battelion, better we dont create a " own citizen" theory. Even if some leaders are arrested or killed; few thousands armed men in the jungle living on extortion and loot will be a great headache for the law and order.

It maybe a wrong policy, but it still is a policy.

And the Security Forces will have to operate within the parameters of that pollicy.

The Govt is now seriously thinking of removing the AFSPA as per the news report two days ago.

Then the fun and games will start.

No one will seriously take on the insurgency and terrorist problem.

Why should anyone risk his life, career and pay when any old excuse trotted out by the Insurgents and terrorists will land them in jail?

Likewise, what they are doing to the IB, no one will pass any information and there will be a total void of information and so none will act.

This is what is happening with a brainless Govt trying to act as the 'voice of the oppressed people'!

Bottom line - votes!

 

[hit&run]

Armed RPF on trains is a common thing for many years now. One does not need a certain Narendra Modi to deliver this revelation to us. Anyone who travels by trains knows this.

What is your panchayat in this thread, you should be happy that naxalites are attacking this nation as you have been supporting them.

N.Modi's concerns still stand correct, unanswered.

My post was after media report that they attacked to loot weapons. Anyone can assume from it that 100 strong men were there to loot large number weapons not from 3-4 or more armed security personals who will for sure respond.

 

[bhramos]

[video=youtube_share;cAx2qgaQwZE]http://youtu.be/cAx2qgaQwZE[/video]

 

[pmaitra]

What is your panchayat in this thread, you should be happy that naxalites are attacking this nation as you have been supporting them.

Now that is utter nonsense. If you have to resort to taking my statements out of context and twisting it to completely misrepresent my views, I will not struggle to explain further. You might as well rather quote me and counter me, for I am not of the bent of mind to countenance imaginative assertions.

N.Modi's concerns still stand correct, unanswered.

It is nice to hear that N Modi is concerned. He must make such a great leader of this country, is that what you are suggesting? Surely, the man under whose tutelage violent riots were carried out, couldn't be significantly better than the violent Naxalites, or perhaps, violence in the name of Hinduism is acceptable?

My post was after media report that they attacked to loot weapons. Anyone can assume from it that 100 strong men were there to loot large number weapons not from 3-4 or more armed security personals who will for sure respond.

Ok.

 

[SajeevJino]

Finally ..What's happens..Till now no News ..Where the Naxals go where the troops any Battles

 

[shom]

Arms is secondary.

They had to prove that the Maoists are not a spent force and they would act at a place and time of their own choosing.

Of late, owing to a variety of reasons, basically their leaders were either killed or taken into custody there was a lull.

However, with the Chhatisgarh killings by the Maoists, it appears that they have reorganised and now back to asserting themselves.

The success of the train attack was because the Govt thought they had the Maoist problem under control and complacency had set in.

Now Government have decided to carry 12 RPF per train in Naxalite belts. Sir is 12 RPF jawan enough to ensure the safety of 100s of passengers in the train? I don't think so. There should be atleast air support in such cases.

 

[Ray]

Any linear and long (length) moving entity required adequate strength in protective personnel in the front, in the centre and at the rear.

Since the whole entity will not get addressed immediately until stationary, the portion address will act as the firm base to give covering fire, while the other two will outflank the ambushers and charge on to them, as in the normal mode of an attack.

Ideally, there should be MMG nests on top of the front, middle and rear compartments so that they can immediately react to any fire that is brought upon the moving entity.

If one has seen WWII movies of train moving, one would get the idea of what I am stating.

However, it will take a whole lot of personnel is one is to protect the huge numbers of train the Indian Railway runs.

 

[pmaitra]

Any linear and long (length) moving entity required adequate strength in protective personnel in the front, in the centre and at the rear.

Since the whole entity will not get addressed immediately until stationary, the portion address will act as the firm base to give covering fire, while the other two will outflank the ambushers and charge on to them, as in the normal mode of an attack.

Ideally, there should be MMG nests on top of the front, middle and rear compartments so that they can immediately react to any fire that is brought upon the moving entity.

If one has seen WWII movies of train moving, one would get the idea of what I am stating.

However, it will take a whole lot of personnel is one is to protect the huge numbers of train the Indian Railway runs.

Keep a bunch of Mil-24/35 choppers in bases spread in regular intervals along tracks in Maoist infested districts, and whenever there is an attack, unleash the beasts.

I am not asking these helos to launch their 57 mm rockets, but they can surely creep right up to the ultras' nostrils and use their YakB 12.7 mm Gatling guns to take them out.

The only difference would be larger bullet holes in their bodies.

 

[Ray]

Well, since one cannot go against the Govt policy, what could be done is, as you say, have Paramilitary troops based at locations with helipads who could be moved swiftly and act as Quick Reaction Teams and take on such ambushes.

A good idea.

The point to remember is that the helicopters would only be in ferrying mode.

 

[t_co]

Keep a bunch of Mil-24/35 choppers in bases spread in regular intervals along tracks in Maoist infested districts, and whenever there is an attack, unleash the beasts.

I am not asking these helos to launch their 57 mm rockets, but they can surely creep right up to the ultras' nostrils and use their YakB 12.7 mm Gatling guns to take them out.

The only difference would be larger bullet holes in their bodies.

Why not just have drones loitering around the rail lines?

 

[pmaitra]

Why not just have drones loitering around the rail lines?

You mean "eyes in the sky" concept?

We can also have balloons with cameras, but in any event, we need to be able to go close to the combatants and kill them. This is necessary to keep collateral damage low. Only the Hind is capable of doing that.

 

[t_co]

You mean "eyes in the sky" concept?

We can also have balloons with cameras, but in any event, we need to be able to go close to the combatants and kill them. This is necessary to keep collateral damage low. Only the Hind is capable of doing that.

Predator drones armed with Hellfires/Griffin missiles?

Those things have a "shoot-on-sight" feature and can loiter for up to 14 hours at a time, covering 70 sq km.

 

[Ray]

Predator drones armed with Hellfires/Griffin missiles?

Those things have a "shoot-on-sight" feature and can loiter for up to 14 hours at a time, covering 70 sq km.

No lethal action beyond the basic infantry weapons is allowed by Govt policy.

If all these things suggested were allowed, then the whole menace would have been erradicated as it was done in Sri Lanka.

But that would qualify as a Human Rights Violation!

So, not allowed!