Naval LCA Tejas

[Pulkit]

There is no my understanding or your understanding of war. War means hostility an it could be cold war too, not just violent war. Cat and mouse game is also war. The enemy may not have the strength to challenge one today but may have the strength to challenge tomorrow. That is still a problem. However, if there is no permanent enemy, there is none who will challenge

Again does not counter what I said.

Time frame of projects are unrealistic and not in compliance with international standards.

That's not true and what are these international standards?

Hence they will fail. Timeline can't be set arbitrarily without proper understanding of time taken by others and also the funding required from time to time.

Timelines are not set by one party and to my belief in case of development the development team gives timelines and the user or customers offer target.

The only reason India did not complete project was either because funds were cut by traitorous governments or specifications changed to prolong the project or because the initial timeline was shorter than international standards and even if funds give, the time was not enough.

that's not justified either take the responsibility, stand up and only accept the feasible targets or don't at all. Don't you think they would have agreed to the timelines. If they thought the cannot deliver in time they should have worked to change the timelines.

1) The INSAS 1B1 guns were developed to undo the flaws of jamming and other guns like MCIWS, sniper etc have been made.

waiting for the order.... why are we going global to get guns then? M777 and others included.

2) ALH, LCH are fully finctioning and under profuction. Engines are also being developed which will be completed by 2020-21

ALH and LCH have gone through the demonstrations for years now....

3) Su30 is made fully in India as well as tejas is being made in limited numbers .

I know the difference between assembly and being made

4) Scorpene submarine is 50% indigenous and the indigenous content will increase over time and eventually become 100% by 2023-24. Arihant class nuclear submarine is fully indian and it will be further improved into SSN and SSBN.

how many we want? how many we have ?

5) ATGM of NAG, Helina have been developed and under user trials.

Are they all accepted and has the order being placed if no why?

6) Ammunition is being made in India and imports are minimal.

Still not sufficient.....why?

7) T90 has been indigenised fully including engine, ammunition and ERA and it is being made in india.

Again assembled we didn't make it.

You live in a cave or are fully deranged to think that despite all these developments, you claim that they are not even built in house!

they are not and if I live in a cave you must be living in your lala land where everything is perfect. Get a reality check.

 

[Kshithij]

Again does not counter what I said. That's not true and what are these international standards? Timelines are not set by one party and to my belief in case of development the development team gives timelines and the user or customers offer target. that's not justified either take the responsibility, stand up and only accept the feasible targets or don't at all. Don't you think they would have agreed to the timelines. If they thought the cannot deliver in time they should have worked to change the timelines. waiting for the order.... why are we going global to get guns then? M777 and others included. ALH and LCH have gone through the demonstrations for years now.... I know the difference between assembly and being made how many we want? how many we have ? Are they all accepted and has the order being placed if no why? Still not sufficient.....why? Again assembled we didn't make it. they are not and if I live in a cave you must be living in your lala land where everything is perfect. Get a reality check.

The problem with you is that you have no understanding of anything and simply squabble around. You dont have proper numbers, proper objectives, proper timelines but simply say that whatever is done is not enough and not correct etc.

If you want to make a point, tell me an alternative with specific objectives in the long terms of at least 20+ years and give proper data as to what is the right timelines for a project, comparison with timelines in other countries and the required amount of funding and test equipments from in the timeline.Finally, compare the requirement with reality and then specify the problems.

Don't harp around saying everything is wrong if you don't know what is right in the long term

 

[Pulkit]

The problem with you is that you have no understanding of anything and simply squabble around. You dont have proper numbers, proper objectives, proper timelines but simply say that whatever is done is not enough and not correct etc.

If you want to make a point, tell me an alternative with specific objectives in the long terms of at least 20+ years and give proper data as to what is the right timelines for a project, comparison with timelines in other countries and the required amount of funding and test equipments from in the timeline.Finally, compare the requirement with reality and then specify the problems.

Don't harp around saying everything is wrong if you don't know what is right in the long term

neither do you have any idea about it.\
I have worked in the aerospace industry for more than 5 years and I know a little bit about timelines.
I do not claim to be an expert nor I am.

Not here to waste my time on explaining you all about it.

FYI the timelines for any aircraft in the world is 15-20 years. I never said Tejas was delayed just said ADA DRDO was lazy to do that in time. Arjun had no backing why because they caused the delay and IA went for external source to fulfill there requirements.
Same thing will happen with Tejas as they keep on shifting timelines after promising to meet them.

 

[WolfPack86]

Finally govt restarted naval Tejas program i am very happy hear this news.

 

[Kshithij]

neither do you have any idea about it.\
I have worked in the aerospace industry for more than 5 years and I know a little bit about timelines.
I do not claim to be an expert nor I am.

Not here to waste my time on explaining you all about it.

FYI the timelines for any aircraft in the world is 15-20 years. I never said Tejas was delayed just said ADA DRDO was lazy to do that in time. Arjun had no backing why because they caused the delay and IA went for external source to fulfill there requirements.
Same thing will happen with Tejas as they keep on shifting timelines after promising to meet them.

Tejas was delayed because of severe fund crunch and regular changing of ASQR with the sole intention of causing trouble. Similarly, Arjun was also made to change GSQR evey single time it was ready and finally ended up being called overweight. How is it possible to get the GSQR satisfied with weight restrictions? Is there some magical metal to be used?

 

[Pulkit]

Tejas was delayed because of severe fund crunch and regular changing of ASQR with the sole intention of causing trouble. Similarly, Arjun was also made to change GSQR evey single time it was ready and finally ended up being called overweight. How is it possible to get the GSQR satisfied with weight restrictions? Is there some magical metal to be used?

That's why I always said that the onus of all this mess was the combined contribution of IAF DRDO ADA and MOD.

 

[Prashant12]

LCA Navy NP2 flies for the first time with its tailhook on July 23 off Goa

 

[WolfPack86]

When will LCA Naval Tejas fly from INS Vikramaditya.

 

[Prashant12]

Naval prototype, with an arrester hook, undertook a test sortie this week after a gap of more than a year


The Light Combat Aircraft (LCA) Navy programme, which has been lying low for almost a year, has once again taken to the skies. It was reportedly kept on hold after Indian Navyrejected the project, saying that it did not suit the requirements.

Pictures of LCA Naval Prototype (NP-2), with an arrester hook, has been doing rounds for the last few days, indicating that the programme has been revived.


NP-2 took to the skies on July 23 and this was the 56th flight of the jet’s technology demonstrator.

Importantly, this flight of the prototype was the first since March 2017. The Bengaluru-based Aeronautical Development Agency (ADA), the nodal design and development agency of the LCA programme, confirmed that a successful test was carried out on July 23.

NP-2, a single-seat fighter, is one of the two technology demonstrators of the LCA Navy programme, with the other one being NP-1, a two-seat aircraft. In 2016, questions were raised about the future of the LCA’s Naval variant after Navy chief Sunil Lanba said that the aircraft wouldn’t suit its aircraft carriers. He even said the Navy was looking for an alternative solution.

Since then, questions have been raised about the future of LCA Naval programme and the number of test sorties has also come down drastically. The last test flight, involving NP-1, was in May 2017.

The LCA Naval programme commenced in 2003 and the first flight of NP-1 was in 2012, and the maiden flight of NP-2 in 2015. The flight of NP-2, with an arrester hook, assumes significance as it indicates that the aircraft is now readying itself for tests in the days to come at a designated facility in Goa. NP 2 is the lead aircraft for arrestor hook integration, according to sources.

The aircraft’s technical features

• LCA will operate from an Aircraft Carrier with a concept of Ski-jump Take off But Arrested Recovery (STOBAR). Aircraft gets airborne over a ski jump in about 200 m and lands 90 m using an arrester hook
• Derived from the Air Force version it is a longitudinally unstable fly-by-wire aircraft, making it an agile war machine.
• Flight Control system is augmented with Leading Edge Vortex Controller (LEVCON), helping reduction in approach speed for Carrier Landing
• Auto-throttle function reduces pilot load by maintaining constant angle of attack during the critical phase of a flare-less carrier landing
• Fuel Dump System enables safe landing by reducing weight in event of an emergency landing immediately after launch from carrier

https://bangaloremirror.indiatimes....-of-more-than-a-year/articleshow/65124001.cms

 

[abingdonboy]

Does this even come close to having a possibility of an order being placed?

It's not about getting orders for this bird.

We now have the capability which is hindering new procurement and ordering them.

This is the reason why I called it hindrance, it poses a threat a dilemma of buying from outside or placing an order.

False, the IN has been clear about this- they are NOT interested in BUYING the N-LCA for its fighter role, the N-LCA is about proving technolgies and creating the relevent R&D efforts in India for potential future projects.

IN has said quite clearly they want a twin engined medium class fighter, N-LCA doesn't hinder them one bit in ordering the Rafale-M or more MiG-29Ks.

 

[Pulkit]

It's not about getting orders for this bird.

You are expecting the defense industry to reach straight to proficiency level before even starting as beginners. Why are the orders necessary:
1) So that GOVT need not fund entirely and development can be supported by revenue.
2) It help develop technology faster once you have a definite order as then it is customer driven.
3) Not yet but it does help in getting export orders once the home team shows faith in the product.
4) The development cost get distributed with versions otherwise the final product will be un reasonably costly.

False, the IN has been clear about this- they are NOT interested in BUYING the N-LCA for its fighter role, the N-LCA is about proving technolgies and creating the relevent R&D efforts in India for potential future projects.

Indian Navy was interested in N-LCA in limited numbers for training there pilots and wanted MK2 to be actuallty inducted.

IN has said quite clearly they want a twin engined medium class fighter, N-LCA doesn't hinder them one bit in ordering the Rafale-M or more MiG-29Ks.

They have been waiting for quite some time now to order rafale or Mig but even they know the defense budget cannot support the cost of each one of these platforms and at the end you need to have a bird of your own.

 

[Kshithij]

You are expecting the defense industry to reach straight to proficiency level before even starting as beginners. Why are the orders necessary:
1) So that GOVT need not fund entirely and development can be supported by revenue.
2) It help develop technology faster once you have a definite order as then it is customer driven.
3) Not yet but it does help in getting export orders once the home team shows faith in the product.
4) The development cost get distributed with versions otherwise the final product will be un reasonably costly.


Indian Navy was interested in N-LCA in limited numbers for training there pilots and wanted MK2 to be actuallty inducted.


They have been waiting for quite some time now to order rafale or Mig but even they know the defense budget cannot support the cost of each one of these platforms and at the end you need to have a bird of your own.

You have 0 understanding of economics. But you preach so vehemently and cause confusion in others mind.

Firstly, it is irrelevant whether a project is funded by revenue or by government. In neither case is money magically created

Technology development is not same as mass production. It is true that feedback from usage helps fine tune technology, but is is good enough to use prototypes for user trials and then get feedbacks.

Exports is a second step. That can't be done without the first. Since India is a latecomer, to secure order, it sjhould show higher quality or similar quality than others rather than show any plane. Doing so will only make the competition look attractive

Development cost getting distributed is irrelevant except for psychological reasons. At the end of the day, full payment for development cost has to be done. Whether you pay 1% per item by ordering 100 or 10% per item by ordering 10, the payment amount is same.


The ordering of Rafale or MiG is only temporary solution as it is always important to have own plane. No matter what, in war one will need quantity. Mere 30-50 planes will not cut it

 

[Pulkit]

You have 0 understanding of economics. But you preach so vehemently and cause confusion in others mind.

My understanding is not for you to judge and what ever I said I think I have justified that.

Firstly, it is irrelevant whether a project is funded by revenue or by government. In neither case is money magically created

It is relevant when you do not have budget far exceeding your needs.

Technology development is not same as mass production. It is true that feedback from usage helps fine tune technology, but is is good enough to use prototypes for user trials and then get feedbacks.

Never said they are same.

Exports is a second step. That can't be done without the first. Since India is a latecomer, to secure order, it sjhould show higher quality or similar quality than others rather than show any plane. Doing so will only make the competition look attractive

Yes that's the next step and like a said its only possible if the local defense org supports the technology

Development cost getting distributed is irrelevant except for psychological reasons. At the end of the day, full payment for development cost has to be done. Whether you pay 1% per item by ordering 100 or 10% per item by ordering 10, the payment amount is same.

It Matters, do not understand where does your knowledge of economics is lost here.

The ordering of Rafale or MiG is only temporary solution as it is always important to have own plane. No matter what, in war one will need quantity. Mere 30-50 planes will not cut it

just what I said.

 

[Kshithij]

My understanding is not for you to judge and what ever I said I think I have justified that. It is relevant when you do not have budget far exceeding your needs. Never said they are same. Yes that's the next step and like a said its only possible if the local defense org supports the technology It Matters, do not understand where does your knowledge of economics is lost here.
just what I said.

Let me give a scenario:
Tejas developmental cost is 10000 crore. The fixed cost of production is 10000 crore. The marginal cost of production is Rs 100 crore per plane from production till handing over. Now, let us take 2 scenario: 1) order of 50planes 2) Order of 500planes.

In 1st case, the cost of each plane comes out to be 500 crore but total cost is 25000 crore while in second case, the cost of each plane comes out as 140 crore but the total cost is 70000 crore.

Now, question:
How is 70000 crore less than 25000 crore? The per plane cost may be low but the overall cost is still high.

When the whole point is to develop the best possible technology at minimal cost and then manufacture the best possible plane, what is the point of prematurely making large number of planes even before the technology is fully developed? Instead of 70000 crore being spent for lower quality MK1, isnt it wise to just spend 25000 crore and then further develop technology be feedback into Mk2? Since developmental cost and fixed cost is already acccounted, the MK2 will have only small upgradation cost. So, by spending the remaining 45000 crore later, it is possible to get higher quality plane in the future. Merely the fact that current 50 planes appear to be costing 500 crore a piece is not a valid excuse to increase production. The overall cost is what matters most.

 

[Pulkit]

Let me give a scenario:
Tejas developmental cost is 10000 crore. The fixed cost of production is 10000 crore. The marginal cost of production is Rs 100 crore per plane from production till handing over. Now, let us take 2 scenario: 1) order of 50planes 2) Order of 500planes.

In 1st case, the cost of each plane comes out to be 500 crore but total cost is 25000 crore while in second case, the cost of each plane comes out as 140 crore but the total cost is 70000 crore.

Now, question:
How is 70000 crore less than 25000 crore? The per plane cost may be low but the overall cost is still high.

You answered your question yourself the per unit cost has decreased that's what is desired finally.
70000 is not less than 25000 but like you said you got more number of planes.
Have you ever done budgeting or procurement? When we are planning to buy a product we go for the best price based on the numbers we want.
In your scenario the development cost got distributed and that is the motive behind buying in huge numbers.
Same principle is applied with the mass production concept you order large the cost further decreases.

If you order say 50 Planes your scenario one the vendor is gonna charge you more for each assembly or part whereas if you have 500 planes on order you have the advantage on your side to bring them the cost of each part.

Try ordering in large quantities or visit a manufacturing plant you will understand.

When the whole point is to develop the best possible technology at minimal cost and then manufacture the best possible plane, what is the point of prematurely making large number of planes even before the technology is fully developed?

Technology is a ever growing process that is why Block wise manufacturing came into existence. One will never be satisfied with what is in hand a always be demanding more hence never ordering.

best possible plane cannot be created in one go even your TDP will not be enough one needs to take feedback from user and over years it helps in improving the aircraft. You cannot have a plane out being used by user and just keep working in your lab to improve it. That's not the way to do manufacturing or even development.

No one is asking for large numbers.
The current order is sufficient for Tejas though even I agree the cost is more than expected say 50 crores more per aircraft.

Instead of 70000 crore being spent for lower quality MK1, isnt it wise to just spend 25000 crore and then further develop technology be feedback into Mk2?

Then what will be the cost of MK2 and also remember time is money? It is not wise and no one is saying order 500 (70000 as per your assumption cost of 500) 40 MK1 is enough MK1A should be increased by 50 and even further till MK2 is ready. You cannot let assembly line stay ideal at any time you loose skill and flow during that time.

Since developmental cost and fixed cost is already acccounted, the MK2 will have only small upgradation cost.

You are wrong here my friend. You might have good knowledge of defense but production I not sure of. Being worked in the aero domain I can assure you no change is a small change and when you talk about cost its hefty.
Just to explain while designing one of the components of an aircraft we changed the clip stabilizer other than the normally used stabilizer that change costed the client a lot more than estimated. why?
Assume the clip stabilizer (old) had the order strength of 1000 and costed 10 per piece.
Now we added another clip stabilizer(New) whose order size was 400.

Now when the vendor was asked for quote the new quotation was
12 per piece for clip stabilizer(old) and 15 per piece for clip stabilizer(new).
rest of the maths can be done by you.

So, by spending the remaining 45000 crore later, it is possible to get higher quality plane in the future.

Mk1A is currently more expensive than Su try buying an aircraft buying more expensive than Rafale.
So let me ask you quality at what price and trust me by them when we are still at 4th Gen aircraft world will be looking at 7th gen aircrafts. You need to draw a line somewhere.

Merely the fact that current 50 planes appear to be costing 500 crore a piece is not a valid excuse to increase production. The overall cost is what matters most.

You are being theoretical here think practically account for all factors hope you will get the answer yourself.

 

[Kshithij]

You answered your question yourself the per unit cost has decreased that's what is desired finally.
70000 is not less than 25000 but like you said you got more number of planes.
Have you ever done budgeting or procurement? When we are planning to buy a product we go for the best price based on the numbers we want.
In your scenario the development cost got distributed and that is the motive behind buying in huge numbers.
Same principle is applied with the mass production concept you order large the cost further decreases.

If you order say 50 Planes your scenario one the vendor is gonna charge you more for each assembly or part whereas if you have 500 planes on order you have the advantage on your side to bring them the cost of each part.

Try ordering in large quantities or visit a manufacturing plant you will understand.

Total budget and objective satisfaction is important. Per unit cost is not important. The planes are not for resale

Technology is a ever growing process that is why Block wise manufacturing came into existence. One will never be satisfied with what is in hand a always be demanding more hence never ordering.

best possible plane cannot be created in one go even your TDP will not be enough one needs to take feedback from user and over years it helps in improving the aircraft. You cannot have a plane out being used by user and just keep working in your lab to improve it. That's not the way to do manufacturing or even development.

No one is asking for large numbers.
The current order is sufficient for Tejas though even I agree the cost is more than expected say 50 crores more per aircraft.

The idea is to develop technology with small manufacturing base. The large orders are not placed due to several reasons. India makes 50 lakh cars, 2.5 crore 2 wheelers and other vehicles like tractors, buses, 3 wheelers in tens of lakhs. The reason planes are made in small numbers is mainly because we don't want everyone else to get alarmed at arms build up.

One other reason behind lower orders is because many components are imported and it will be difficult to order in large numbers due to huge forex loss. So, it is important to indigenise technology before giving large orders. Also, if India starts manufacturing in large numbers, then due to issues of stable employment, the mass manufacture has to be continued which makes it a process of arms build up. So, we maintain small manufacturing base to keep technology alive while avoiding others from over reacting to Indian arms build up.

Then what will be the cost of MK2 and also remember time is money? It is not wise and no one is saying order 500 (70000 as per your assumption cost of 500) 40 MK1 is enough MK1A should be increased by 50 and even further till MK2 is ready. You cannot let assembly line stay ideal at any time you loose skill and flow during that time.

Time is not money here as the idea is to avoid alarming others by arm build up. One must understand this very clearly. India does not want war now but wants enough to be able to counter any aggression and to respond to any arms build up with sufficient arms build up of its own indigenously. The cost of MK2 will be significantly less as modern aircrafts heavily rely on avionics, weapons integration, radar integration etc and all of these would be complete in Tejas MK1A. Only airframe and small FBW modification would be needed for MK2. The additional changes for avionics would be minimal

Mk1A is currently more expensive than Su try buying an aircraft buying more expensive than Rafale.
So let me ask you quality at what price and trust me by them when we are still at 4th Gen aircraft world will be looking at 7th gen aircrafts. You need to draw a line somewhere.

Mk1A is more expensive as it requires much higher developmental costs over just 83 planes. The reimbursement of developmental cost will go to the tune of 250 crore per plane or about 40 million dollars a plane. If you think this is expensive, look at the cost of Jaguar upgrade. It also took 30 million dollars a plane about 10 years back.

The world is not moving to 6th generation or 7th generation plane. The generational upgrades come with upgrade in technology. The earlier WW2 fighter planes were generation -1, development of turboprop engine gave it generation 2, development of turbofan gave it generation 3, development of computers resulted in FBW and digital avionics gave rise to generation 4 and the last generation 5 came to to advancement of computing like supercomputing and gave rise to high end electronics like seekers, powerful radars, EW, jammers, sensors etc.

There has not been any other technological revolution after supercomputing. The 6th generation may be possible as an unmanned fighter jet but that is all. It is considered very difficult to have unmanned fighter jet as looking via a camera is like looking through a spyhole on the door! The technology has saturated and unless we see any breakthrough, don't simply insist that there will be generational improvement. It is not that in the past 5000 year history we saw some massive growth in technology. Technology can stagnate too and that must be accepted instead of acting childishly and indulging in superficiality

Don't give me a toy model like Iran and call it 6th or 7th generation. This is not high end plane:

 

[Pulkit]

Total budget and objective satisfaction is important. Per unit cost is not important. The planes are not for resale

Objective satisfaction is something that cannot be achieved. Everyone wants better than the best. Per unit cost is important and yes planes are not for resale but they need to be affordable.

The idea is to develop technology with small manufacturing base. The large orders are not placed due to several reasons. India makes 50 lakh cars, 2.5 crore 2 wheelers and other vehicles like tractors, buses, 3 wheelers in tens of lakhs. The reason planes are made in small numbers is mainly because we don't want everyone else to get alarmed at arms build up.

Never heard of this reasoning, always lack of infrastructure and resources used to be the reason behind it.

One other reason behind lower orders is because many components are imported and it will be difficult to order in large numbers due to huge forex loss.

This is insane smaller numbers cost even more. Its easy to place larger orders as you can get relaxation in cost and taxes for the component.

So, it is important to indigenise technology before giving large orders.

This I do agree, but not 100% indigenization is possible or even feasible.

Also, if India starts manufacturing in large numbers, then due to issues of stable employment, the mass manufacture has to be continued which makes it a process of arms build up. So, we maintain small manufacturing base to keep technology alive while avoiding others from over reacting to Indian arms build up.

Again insane, we have been trying to build a stable defense environment for over an decade now. To be self sufficient it is required Mandatory.

Time is not money here as the idea is to avoid alarming others by arm build up.
One must understand this very clearly. India does not want war now but wants enough to be able to counter any aggression and to respond to any arms build up with sufficient arms build up of its own indigenously.

India does not want war but to have peace we need sufficient weapons.

The cost of MK2 will be significantly less as modern aircrafts heavily rely on avionics, weapons integration, radar integration etc and all of these would be complete in Tejas MK1A. Only airframe and small FBW modification would be needed for MK2. The additional changes for avionics would be minimal

With your above statements I understand you have no knowledge of aircraft and its structure.

Mk1A is more expensive as it requires much higher developmental costs over just 83 planes. The reimbursement of developmental cost will go to the tune of 250 crore per plane or about 40 million dollars a plane. If you think this is expensive, look at the cost of Jaguar upgrade. It also took 30 million dollars a plane about 10 years back.

how much will you charge an outsider for the technology you have?
I or no one can calculate the numbers you are sharing so I wont be commenting on that.

The world is not moving to 6th generation or 7th generation plane. The generational upgrades come with upgrade in technology. The earlier WW2 fighter planes were generation -1, development of turboprop engine gave it generation 2, development of turbofan gave it generation 3, development of computers resulted in FBW and digital avionics gave rise to generation 4 and the last generation 5 came to to advancement of computing like supercomputing and gave rise to high end electronics like seekers, powerful radars, EW, jammers, sensors etc.

5th gen is reality you call it generational or with technological growth what ever we are far behind it.

There has not been any other technological revolution after supercomputing. The 6th generation may be possible as an unmanned fighter jet but that is all. It is considered very difficult to have unmanned fighter jet as looking via a camera is like looking through a spyhole on the door! The technology has saturated and unless we see any breakthrough, don't simply insist that there will be generational improvement. It is not that in the past 5000 year history we saw some massive growth in technology. Technology can stagnate too and that must be accepted instead of acting childishly and indulging in superficiality

Don't give me a toy model like Iran and call it 6th or 7th generation. This is not high end plane:

this is all speculative I don't wanna get into this.

 

[Kshithij]

Objective satisfaction is something that cannot be achieved. Everyone wants better than the best. Per unit cost is important and yes planes are not for resale but they need to be affordable.

Objective satisfaction is to ensure that India has enough equipment to deter enemy at current arms build up rate but also has contingency ability to ramp up quickly at war footing if there is additional build up. This should happen while India continually develops the planes to its full potential over time and gains better expertise to make Mk2.

This objective is satisfiable.

This is insane smaller numbers cost even more. Its easy to place larger orders as you can get relaxation in cost and taxes for the component.

As I said repeatedly, overall cost matters as the objective is an overall objective. India does not want arms build up but also want minimum retaliatory abilities. The tax incentive etc is irrelevant. The intention is to buy time while maintaining a steady preparedness. One can't care less of per unit cost unless it is for resale

This I do agree, but not 100% indigenization is possible or even feasible.

Again, nonsensical. 100% indigenisaton means that technology must be 100% available, not necessarily produced. As I said - the ability to prouce during war and other contingency is needed and that is possible. Economy of scale work only during peacetime. During war, it will be all about self reliance. Hence, there must be insurance plan for war while maintaining economies of scale during peace

Again insane, we have been trying to build a stable defense environment for over an decade now. To be self sufficient it is required Mandatory.

As I have said repeatedly, the idea is to develop technology, not premature arms build up with imported or substandard content which has to be dumped tomorrow. So, development of decent technology precedes mass manufacturing. The tecnology need not be perfect but must be decent enough. Inducting 200 Tejas without AESA radar, Astra integration or without EW pods, for example is a bad idea.

India does not want war but to have peace we need sufficient weapons.

That is what I have been telling. India needs to have enough good quality items for peace in the long term, not just next 2 year peace. To develop quality, it takes time. The time is bought by low number manufacturing.

how much will you charge an outsider for the technology you have?
I or no one can calculate the numbers you are sharing so I wont be commenting on that.

Outsider or insider, the cost of technology is high. India paid 35 million dolalrs for Jaguar upgrade despite the technology being an older one whereas tejas technology is being developed brand new. It also involves lot of software purchases from abroad, purchase of off the shelf items like silica radome, ejection seat etc for trial and error. All of this takes time and money.

5th gen is reality you call it generational or with technological growth what ever we are far behind it.

5th generation is real but 6th and above is not. 5th generation is going to stay at least till 2035 without any new thing coming before. The modern avionics, radar like UTTAM being made in India are all set to be good fit into 5th generation planes. That is why it takes time to develop. India is capable of making substadard Tejas in large numbers but that will be obsolete in just 5 years and makes no long term sense.

 

[Prashant12]

LCA Navy (NP2) undertakes maiden Taxi-in engagement to prove arrestor hook system of aircraft at SBTF Goa

 

[Prashant12]

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