Myth of Vegetarianism in Ancient india

Discussion in 'Religion & Culture' started by Maharaj, Sep 22, 2013.

  1. Tolaha

    Tolaha Senior Member Senior Member

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    Pork as per Theravada branch of Buddhism.
     
  2. LurkerBaba

    LurkerBaba Staff Administrator

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  3. drkrn

    drkrn Senior Member Senior Member

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    fish can believable,but beef,no way.

    hinduism itself prohibits eating beef,and a staunch supporter of hinduism,a sanyasi eating beef is false statement
     
  4. Virendra

    Virendra Moderator Moderator

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    Hindus and Hinduism are very broad terms.
    Vedas prohibit beef eating, that much is certain. Because there are dozens if not hundreds of references in Vedas that prohibit beef eating.
    But how much it was observed in practice outside the people who made these rules, we'll probably never know.
    Unless a time travel alternative becomes available some day. Till then this bickering will go on.

    Lets see what the so called champion said about meat eating (not just beef).

    Vivekananda was a magnificent personality, debater, great orator and intellectual. But he is not an undisputed authority on Vedas. He also held Muller in high esteem. Great or not, one cannot agree with a person on everything. That is ok.
    Here's what Gandhi said upon hearing these views of Vivekananda:
    As for the brahmins eating meat. It has no bearing on the Vedas whatsoever. Those are brahmins by birth. Not the brahmins per Vedas anyway.
    All this meat BS is like saying "So many Hindus use abusive language when they're angry. Therefore abuse must be a Hindu practice".

    It is suffice to know the meaning of Pisacha I'm sure many of us know the term and the creatures/vibes it is associate with.
    Pisita (Meat) + Acha (Eat) = Pisacha .. the meat eater.

    Regards,
    Virendra
     
  5. LalTopi

    LalTopi Regular Member

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    OK I can see Sakal quoting various Vedas where meat eating is supposedly forbidden. I am not an expert on the Vedas but I would be interested in specific references in the Vedas, Mahabharata or Ramayan that refers to the practice or acceptability of meat eating and hence provides an opposing view to Sakal. Lets leave out Manusmriti, I am referring to earlier texts.
     
  6. Agnostic_Indian

    Agnostic_Indian Regular Member

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  7. LalTopi

    LalTopi Regular Member

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  8. nirranj

    nirranj Regular Member

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    Even Rama, Sita and Lakshmana ate meat during their Vanavasa.

    I read this in Ramayana written by Rajaji.

    Eating meat of the sacrificed animals is predominant in TN, People here sacrifice, cocks, Goats, Pigs and even at times Bulls for their deities and feast on the meat.
     
  9. nirranj

    nirranj Regular Member

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    Changes in the Indian menu over the ages

    IT WAS two years ago that we lost the eminent food scientist Dr. K.T. Achaya. His books — Indian Food, A Historical Companion, The Food Industries of British India, and A Historical Dictionary of Indian Food (all published by Oxford University Press, India) — are a scholarly fund of the history and development of India cuisine.

    Occasional shock


    They educate as they enlighten and entertain, and occasionally shock us. For example, he points out authoritatively that while Dosai and Vadai have a hoary two-thousand-year history in Tamil country, Idli is a foreign import. The earliest reference to something of a precursor to Idli occurs in the Kannada writing of Sivakotyacharya in 920 AD, and in the subsequent Sanskrit Manasollasa (1130 AD). But the three elements of modern Idli making are missing in these references: use of rice grits along with urad dal, the long fermentation of the mix, and steaming the batter to fluffiness.

    Indeed, the Chinese chronicler Xuang Zang (7th century AD) categorically stated that there were no steaming vessels in India. Achaya writes that the cooks who accompanied the Hindu Kings of Indonesia between 800-1200 AD, brought fermentation and steaming methods and their dish Kedli to South India (Thirai Kadal Odiyum Tinpandam Thedu!)

    Happily enough, ancient Indian literature left a lot of information on extant vegetables, pulses, meat, spices, fruits, cooking methods, and even an occasional recipe or two. The history of Indian cuisine can be divided into several stages or periods. The earliest period is before 1500 BC or the Vedic period.

    The Harappan civilization was known to have rice, barley, wheat, oat, amaranths, jowar, sesame, mustard, chickpeas, masoor, mung and horsegram (kulti, ulavulu), dates, pomegranates, and perhaps bananas.
    The large granaries of Mohenjodaro, Harappa and Lothal attest to a sophisticated, aerated, rodent-free storage practice. But, as of date, no recipe has been discovered so that we do not know what a typical Indus valley supper menu contained.

    Vedic period


    We are more fortunate when we turn to the Vedic period (approximately 1700 BC). The Rig Veda mentions rice, cereals and pulses (masha (urad), mudga (moong) and masura (masoor)) green leafy vegetables (spinach), melons, pumpkins and gourds and in particular lotus stem, cucumber, bottle-gourd, water chestnut, bitter gourd (karavella), radish, brinjal, some aquatic plants (avaka, andika), and fruits such as mangoes, oranges and grapes. Spices such as coriander, turmeric, pepper, cumin, asafoetida, cloves, sesame and mustard were well known, and at least the first four ones are thought to be Indian in origin.
    It was after this time that a change in our food habits occurred. The Dharma Sutras, Manusmriti and related texts of 500-300 BC began forbidding and proscribing food items based on their `temper' (sattvik — peaceful and ascetic, rajasik medium, energetic that can be either positive or negative, and tamasic or coarse, rough and not all that nice), and prohibiting as many as 54 items (in particular a variety of animals) from the `proper' kitchen.

    The teachings of Buddhism and Jainism against meat eating had taken hold by this time, and a turn towards preferential vegetarianism began to be expressed in Hindu texts as well.

    These, plus the diktats on satvik, rajasic, and tamasic practices changed the face of Indian gastronomy already around 300 BC.

    Ancient Tamil food


    Condiments, spices, vegetables and pulses mentioned here are the same as those in contemporary `northern' literature. The three great Tamil fruits were of course, mango, jackfruit and bananas. Tamarind rice figures extensively, as also a drink made with tamarind and nellikai (gooseberry).

    Leafy greens (keerai), gourds, drumsticks and the three pulses were widely used. So were rice and curd, and vadai soaked in curds — no wonder we are still known as Thayirvadais.
    Not mostly vegetarian


    He gives economic, ethical and respect for its use as reasons. Emperor Humayun (16th century) is quoted as saying "beef is not a food fit for the devout" and avoided it. Akbar too was similarly respectful.
    Debate meaningless


    To my mind, debate about this issue today is meaningless and only inflammatory. We respect people and adore gods not for what they eat but what they stand for and teach us. To think and act otherwise is immature and infantile.

    The Hindu : Sci Tech / Speaking Of Science : Changes in the Indian menu over the ages
     
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  10. nirranj

    nirranj Regular Member

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    self delete
     
  11. pmaitra

    pmaitra Moderator Moderator

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    This has been claimed many times, and will be claimed many more times. Vedas do not prohibit beef consumption.
     
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  12. drkrn

    drkrn Senior Member Senior Member

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    i still doubt it
    i am a brahmin.i will check this with my elders.
     
  13. drkrn

    drkrn Senior Member Senior Member

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    true,rama is a king.meat is not forbidden.
     
  14. sydsnyper

    sydsnyper Senior Member Senior Member

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  15. pmaitra

    pmaitra Moderator Moderator

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    If you are really a Brahmin, then why would you need to ask your elders? Is it because you are "Brahmin Jata," and not really a "Brahmin?"

    What is or what are your Ved(s)? Which way do you wear your holy string? Does your holy string hang up to you waist, or your knees?
     
  16. parijataka

    parijataka Senior Member Senior Member

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    @drkrn, @pmaitra - killing of cows and cattle is considered one of the greatest sins so how is eating the flesh of cows allowed ?

    Meat eating is different from eating beef.

    Being Brahmin does not mean one is conversant with all the holy books, especially in these days when caste is not a marker of one's profession.
     
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  17. pmaitra

    pmaitra Moderator Moderator

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    In which Veda is eating beef prohibited? Just show me that. How come Chandogya Upanishad clearly states that all animals and all plants are provided for our consumption by Lord Vishnu, without exception? Sure, protecting animals is mentioned, but it has been quoted out of context by the militant-vegetarian-brigade, which is hell bent on subverting the religion. Even the Indian Constitution guarantees Right to Life. Does that mean there is no death penalty?

    Over a period of time, the invading or migrating Aryans, gradually gave up their nomadic lifestyle, and adopted a more agrarian and sedentary lifestyle. Due to this, the importance of animal husbandry gained importance, and new customs came into being. This is how cattle became as important as real estate today is. However, the metamorphosis that Indian society underwent, does not mean, at the beginning of Bronze Age, the customs and prohibitions were the same as those that came into existence in the later Iron Age. Hindutwavadis don't even acknowledge that Aryans came into India, where overwhelming evidence exists as to their original source being eastern Iran and western Afghanistan.

    Regional customs are regional customs. Practice what you want, but please don't do it in the name of Vedas.

    One is subset of the other. Show me a prohibition on eating beef, not from the Puranas and Smritis, but the Vedas.

    Being a Brahmin means being conversant with the Vedas, at least one of them. This is the fundamental of receiving a holy thread. Hence my questions. Otherwise, why claim to be a Brahmin? Just because of heredity? What religion is that? Surely not Hinduism. Also, your mention of caste is irrelevant. Caste has nothing to do with Hinduism, or being a Brahmin.
     
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  18. parijataka

    parijataka Senior Member Senior Member

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    Reply to your last question only - yes as in modern times caste has become hereditary and nought to do with one's profession as you know very well So a person can claim to be a Brahmin engineer , Shudra professor, Baniya architect or Kshatriya doctor !

    GTG, bye !
     
  19. drkrn

    drkrn Senior Member Senior Member

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    i said i will ask my elders,not one who is well versed with vedas.if you need to find one such you should go to kasi or tirupathi.asking elders is nothing wrong

    afaik beef means meat from cows too
     
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  20. drkrn

    drkrn Senior Member Senior Member

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    because i dont know what is what.am not a follower of stringent religious principles.i will ask these questions to those who follow them.
    i am a "brahmin jata", just a brahmin by caste.
    i dont know which is the veda of my family.but now i will ask.
    holy string is below the waist,never heard or saw that it is up to the knees.
     
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