Muslims in Western Nations

santosh10

Senior Member
Joined
Oct 5, 2014
Messages
1,666
Likes
177
The Radical Lure of Pakistan's Jihad Tourism
May 06, 2010

The ease with which Times Square bomb-plot accused Faisal Shahzad was allegedly able to undergo bombmaking instruction during a visit to Pakistan has once again highlighted the country's enduring reputation as the destination of choice for jihadist tourism.:ranger: The claim by Pakistani government sources that Shahzad trained at a camp in North Waziristan will ratchet up pressure on Islamabad to crack down on militant groups that operate in zones of lawlessness on its soil, and to dismantle the infrastructure that continues to attract aspiring terrorists seeking to attack the West.


Authorities have accused Faisal Shahzad, 30, of parking a Nissan Pathfinder filled with explosive materials in New York City's Times Square on a busy Saturday night. A naturalized American citizen, Shahzad was born in Pakistan, entered the United States on a student visa and later married an American woman.

Although details of Shahzad's ideological journey remain murky, Pakistanis who knew him say Shahzad came from a quietly religious family, and may only have become radicalized recently. "Last time when I met him," retired schoolteacher Nazirullah Khan told Reuters, "he didn't have a beard. I attended his wedding." Shahzad's possible links to Pakistani militant groups are under investigation, but some officials suspect that he may have had ties to Jaish-e-Muhammad (JeM), a banned terror group that began its life as a proxy of Pakistan's intelligence services deployed to fight India in Kashmir. Lashkar-e-Taiba (LeT), the group responsible for the 2008 Mumbai massacre, is also being investigated as a possibility, a senior Pakistani government source told TIME.

If suspicions of such links prove true, Shahzad's case would hardly be the first time a Western walk-in has turned up in the midst of Pakistani jihadist groups. Last October, David Headley, another U.S. citizen of Pakistani origin, was arrested and later charged with helping plan the November 2008 Mumbai massacre. According to a plea agreement issued by the Justice Department in March, Headley made contact with al-Qaeda operatives during two trips to North Waziristan — the tribal area under limited central government authority, where Shahzad is also said to have received his training. North Waziristan is the only tribal area untouched thus far by Pakistan's military offensives against its domestic Taliban insurgency, and the region is home to an assortment of jihadist groups that have working relationships with one another (including al-Qaeda). The Pakistani Army has deferred any offensive in the area, claiming limits on its capacity to take on such a mission right now, but the Times Square plot is likely to revive U.S. pressure for an offensive there. :ranger:

Shahzad and similar volunteers who arrive from the West are believed by Pakistani analysts to have begun their radicalization before making contact with local militant groups. "Somehow, in Canada, Britain and the U.S., people get self-radicalized, then they try and get in touch with radical organizations, depending on their background," says Amir Rana, director of the Pakistan Institute for Peace Studies. "If they are Pakistanis, they come here." And the Internet has proved to be a powerful tool for both radicalization and recruitment. "There's so much available in cyberspace, it would scare you to death," says Ayesha Siddiqa, an independent security analyst in Islamabad.

Any aspiring jihadist arriving in Pakistan is spoiled for choice when it comes to finding a militant group with which to sign up. Banned organizations such as LeT operate openly under different names, and it's not very difficult for the determined volunteer militant to find his way to such groups. "It's like a drug addict arriving in a new town," adds Siddiqa. "They always figure out where to get their fix."

Recruits bearing Western citizenship are prized by terror groups, because their passports, education, facility with language and relative comfort with life in Western cities are largely absent among the young, impressionable madrasah students often chosen to carry out vicious bombings in Pakistan, Afghanistan or even India. The potential of these more cosmopolitan recruits to strike in the heart of the West further fuels jihadist fantasies. As Michael Chertoff, the former head of Homeland Security, told MSNBC on Wednesday, "Unfortunately this is the kind of perfect mole for the terrorists. And this is why they're recruiting people who ... have clean records, are American citizens, have lived in America, because they want to take advantage of that cleanliness as a way of evading our defenses."
:facepalm:

Britain has had to deal with this problem since the July 2005 bombings of the London commuter system. Given the vast number of Britons of Pakistani origin who move back and forth between the two countries, policing the traffic has severely tested authorities. :ranger: The U.S. is not immune: Headley was able to move undetected between America, India and Pakistan for nearly seven years. Clearly, a problem also exists with respect to the extent of coordination between Western intelligence agencies and their Pakistani counterparts.

Shahzad, had he been seeking to join up with militants in Pakistan, would have had two distinct advantages over other Western-based volunteers. Having spent the first 18 years of his life in Pakistan, he was at ease in the country. His family's background in the northwest meant that he likely spoke Pashto, a rare asset. And the status of his father, retired senior air-force officer Bahar ul-Haq, is the sort of connection known to avert a suspicious gaze from law-enforcement agencies in Pakistan. Siddiqa goes further: "If you are traveling in Waziristan, and you are stopped, the fact that you are an air-force vice marshal's son can offer you protection," she says.

But whatever training Shahzad may have received in Waziristan must have been mercifully poor, judging by the multiple mistakes in the botched bombing attempt to which U.S. officials say he has confessed. Yet he's unlikely to have been the only Western wannabe to have passed through these camps and then returned to the West to put his militant education to work.

Faisal Shahzad Bomb Inquiry Looks at Pakistan Training - TIME
 
Last edited:

santosh10

Senior Member
Joined
Oct 5, 2014
Messages
1,666
Likes
177
Pakistani-Canadians: Falling below the poverty line

Pakistan-born immigrants are the new face of poverty in urban Canada. The Canadian census revealed that 44 per cent of Pakistan-born immigrants fell below the poverty line making them the second most poverty prone group of immigrants in Canada.:ranger:





Given the lower wages, high unemployment rates and rental units, Pakistan-born immigrants experience severe crowding at homes where the number of residents per room is perhaps the highest owing to the large family sizes.

Since 2001, Pakistan has lost the most in its share of supplying immigrants to Canada. Pakistan was the third largest source of immigrants to Canada in 2001 supplying 6.1 per cent of the total immigrants. However, by 2010 Pakistan's share of immigrants declined by 71 per cent. Pakistan is no longer even in the top 10 sources of immigrants for Canada. At the same time, the Philippines experienced a 153 per cent increase in its share of immigrants making it the biggest source of immigrants to Canada in 2010.



While there is no shortage of applicants in Pakistan, it is hard to establish the precise reason for the declining number of immigrants.

Pakistani-Canadians: Falling below the poverty line - Blogs - DAWN.COM

In the above news, we have 3 main tables to state the condition of migrants in Canada. here we find Indian migrants on 'average' category, as compare to others.....

1st, Table states that Indian migrants stands with East European People in "Low Income group category", bit better than East European migrants but listed above Polish people in the 1st table.

2nd, Table states that Average Wages of Indians is bit better than Italian and other East European people, but again less than Polish migrants

3rd, Table states that migration policy towards the Indian origin is maintained as it is during last 10 years, in between 2001 to 2010.

here, why we find Indian Migrants to be on average performing in Canada, while Indian migrants are the highest income group in USA, in the same North America? do we have any role of religious equation in 'average' performing Indians in Canada? as we find Hindus to be even less than 50% of the total Indians living in Canada.

in fact, Sikh truck drivers/ taxi drivers/ Sikh people working in farms in Canada itself, might not be earning less in Canada as they are very hard working, work for long hours....... Sikh origin people won't be very low earning group there, i think?



Sikh truckers propose changes to turban transit system

BRAMPTON, Ont. -- A properly wound turban is as safe as a motorcycle helmet. :ranger:



Sikh truckers propose changes to turban transit system | SikhNet

MONTREAL - Canadian Sikh truck drivers are preparing to once again fight workplace safety rules requiring hardhats to be worn on the job -- this time in Quebec. :facepalm:

According to the CBC, mangers at the Port of Montreal are enforcing a policy that staff and any other workers entering the port, including truck drivers, must wear hardhats and other safety gear at all times.

Sikh truckers propose changes to turban transit system | SikhNet
 
Last edited:

santosh10

Senior Member
Joined
Oct 5, 2014
Messages
1,666
Likes
177
Super-rich Indians account for more than 20% of the wealth of ultra-high net worth (UHNW) individuals in Britain, a new list showed on Tuesday. As a national group, they are second only to expat Russians. :ranger:

Indians account for 22% of Britain's ultra-rich club - JAI TV
WASHINGTON: Indian Americans are the highest-income and best-educated people in the United States and the third largest among Asian Americans who have surpassed Latinos as the fastest-growing racial group, according to a new survey.

Indians, who now number 3.18 millions, the third largest after the Chinese (4 million) and the Filipinos (3.4 million) have a median household annual income of $88,000, much higher than for all Asians ($66,000) and all US households ($49,800).

Indian-Americans top in income and education
............
 

santosh10

Senior Member
Joined
Oct 5, 2014
Messages
1,666
Likes
177
Plan to Build Mosque Near Ground Zero Riles Families of 9/11 Victims

Outraged family members and community groups are accusing a Muslim group of trying to rewrite history with its plans to build a 13-story mosque and cultural center just two blocks from Ground Zero, where Islamic extremists flew two planes into the World Trade Center on Sept. 11, 2001.

"This is a place which is 600 feet from where almost 3,000 people were torn to pieces by Islamic extremists," said Debra Burlingame, whose brother died in the attack on the Pentagon that day.

"I think that it is incredibly insensitive and audacious really for them to build a mosque, not only on that site, but to do it specifically so that they could be in proximity to where that atrocity happened," said Burlingame, who is co-founder of 9/11 Families for a Safe and Strong America.

The 13-story mosque and cultural center will be built on the site of a four-story building that was a Burlington Coat Factory retail store until 9/11, when part of a plane's landing gear crashed through the roof. The building, which will be razed, currently houses a mosque.

The New York City Mayor's office says "It's private property, and the area is zoned for uses that include this one."
Pamela Gellar, executive director of Stop Islamization of America, blasted the organization behind the plans, Cordoba Initiative, and its leader, Imam Feisal Abdul Rauf, saying the project is "an insulting flag of conquest of Islamic supremacism."

"How can you build a shrine to the very ideology that brought down the World Trade Center?" asked Geller, whose group is planning a June 6 rally to protest the project.

"We have to do everything we can to stop this ... a huge Muslim monument, a stone's throw from Ground Zero, with a mosque pointing toward Mecca."
:ranger:

She called it an act of deception that the group has been able to get the green light from the Lower Manhattan Community Board, whose finance committee gave it a thumbs-up last week.

Though the Cordoba Initiative's website calls part of the $100 million-plus project a mosque, its founder, Imam Rauf, says the project is not a mosque but a community center for all faiths that will include recreational facilities, a prayer space and a 500-seat theater that can be a part of the neighborhood's trendy Tribeca Film Festival.

Rauf insists the effort is meant to help heal the wounds of 9/11, "We've approached the community because we want this to be an example of how we are cooperating with the members of the community, not only to provide services but also to build a new discourse on how Muslims and non-Muslims can cooperate together to push back against the voices of extremism."

But Dr. Zuhdi Jasser, president of the American Islamic Forum for Democracy, says there are more productive ways to fight Islamic extremism.

"Even when they have the resources, they are using it for a place of worship, a cultural center for organizations," he said. They are not using it for a counterterrorism research center.

"They are not using it to lead the war like Americans need to see us do and they are wasting our resources, not to mention that being close to the hallowed ground that is so sensitive in the souls of the families of 9/11. I think it is extremely poor judgment."

Jasser also has questions about the financing.

According to reports, the building that occupies the site was purchased last year for $4.85 million in cash by Soho Properties, a real estate company run by Muslims. Imam Rauf, who's also the founder of American Society for Muslim Advancement, ASMA, was an investor in that transaction.

The balance of the $100-150 million total cost still needs to be raised, but Rauf says he's confident it will be.
Jasser says that with such a financial commitment, there needs to be full disclosure about where the money is coming from.
:ranger:

"There should be transparency about who those investors are," he said, "whether that money is coming from domestic interest or not, and if it's coming from foreign interests we need to know, because I think that's a liability, and it shows that there is another agenda rather than domestic security and tranquility."

Madeline Brooks, a member of the New York chapter of Act! for America, a non-profit organization that "is opposed to the authoritarian values of Islam fascism," believes the Cordoba Initiative's agenda is to co-opt the 9/11 narrative and transform it into a Muslim conquest.

"Is it a victory for Islam over non-Muslims?" she asks. "Is this a feather in his (Rauf's) cap?"

Brooks says she's received hundreds of angry e-mails from people who say they can't believe the audacity of this project. "Why here?" she asks. "Why are you offending and outraging people... stirring up a huge hornet's nest?"

Rauf says the intent is to do exactly the opposite. "[T]his is where we can amplify the voice of the moderates," he says. "We have been condemning terrorism since 9/11; our voices have not been heard."

"If they wanted peace and harmony," counters Brooks, "do you really think they'll get that?"

Burlingame says, "The idea that you would establish a religious institution that embraces the very Shariah Law that terrorists point to as their justification for what they did ... to build that where almost 3,000 people died, that is an obscenity to me."

Burlingame said she plans to attend a meeting next week of the full Community Board One. She and other groups are ramping up their opposition to the project and promise to wage a long fight to defeat it.

Lauren Green currently serves as Fox News Channel's (FNC) chief religion correspondent based in the New York bureau. She joined FNC in 1996.

Plan to Build Mosque Near Ground Zero Riles Families of 9/11 Victims | Fox News



I am holding up a photo of the landing gear at our first Ground Zero mosque rally at Ground Zero, June 6, 2010

We always knew that the landing gear from the 911 planes that flew into the towers had crashed through the roof of the Ground Zero Mosque building (Park 51). It was why we urged Congress to designate a 911 War Memorial. Because it is a War Memorial.

Now they are finding more of the plane at the Ground Zero Mosque? Why now? Why wasn't it turned over earlier? Did Gamal intend for it to be part of the mega-mosque he has once again resurrected? It is too gruesome to consider.

The news just broke yesterday that Gamal has purchsed both buildings adjacent to the proposed mosque. What are we looking at now? A triumphal mosque three times the size of the original plan? Where is he getting the funds? He hasn't paid the rent on the GZM building and has lost ongoing litigation against landlord Con-Ed. He unsuccessfully attempted to get Ground Zero development funds from a 911 fund, which fell through after millions of Americans responded with calls, letters, emails etc. Over 70% of the American people opposed that mosquestrosity . :ranger:

Gamal not only beats people up and threatens Muslims who spoke out against the mosque, but he is also a tax cheat, owing a quarter of a million in taxes while defaulting on not one but two bank loans. All this while being evicted from his Soho offices for non-payment of rent. Oh, and this deadbeat applied for $5.5 million from the taxpayer 911 fund to rebuild lower Manhattan.

Be warned, Gamal, we will be back with tens of thousands to protest. We knew he'd be back, well, so will we.

More Landing gear from 9/11 plane found near site of planned Ground Zero Mosque - Atlas Shrugs
 

santosh10

Senior Member
Joined
Oct 5, 2014
Messages
1,666
Likes
177
World Bank data suggest that the UK is a net remittance-receiver

The UK is a receiver as well as a sender of remittances. As shown in Figure 1, the World Bank estimates suggest that since the mid-1990s the UK has been a net-remittance receiver. The main countries from which remittances are sent to the UK include Australia, the United States and Canada (World Bank 2010). Real remittance inflows (inflation adjusted) for the UK have increased by an annual average of 6% since 1989, reaching close to GBP 4,647 million in 2009. However, these inflows represent a small share of the UK GDP (about 0.3% in 2009). The UK occupies the fourteenth place in the world in value of remittances received and the sixth place in Europe.

From 1989 to 2009, remittance outflows from the UK increased by an annual average of about 4% in real terms, reaching close to GBP 2,352 million in 2009.

The UK accounted for around 7% of annual remittances to Bangladesh in 2010 (about GBP 533 million) and about 10% of annual remittances to Pakistan during that year (about GBP 627 million) :ranger:

Bangladesh and Pakistan occupy the seventh and eleventh positions respectively in terms of the global inflow of remittances

Migrant Remittances to and from the UK | The Migration Observatory
 

santosh10

Senior Member
Joined
Oct 5, 2014
Messages
1,666
Likes
177
as above, its interesting to see that out of total GBP 2,352 million remittance outflows from Britain, around GBP 1.16bil goes to just two countries, Pakistan and Bangladesh. while Britain itself is the 14th largest receiver of remittances from the world right now and Pakistan and Bangladesh on 7th and 11th place.......

and interesting statistics, as we do know that Pakistani+Bangladeshi is the poorest community living in UK. does this means, poor people do more saving? :ranger:


State of the nationreport: poverty, worklessness andwelfare dependencyin the UK

Risk of poverty is unevenly spread in terms of region, ethnicity, household structure and disability status. Over half (52%) of Pakistanis and Bangladeshis are in relative poverty, while children living in families with at least one disabled member have a 29% chance of living in poverty, compared with 20% for those living in families with no disabled member. The additional costs associated with (Religious) disability mean that a narrow focus on incomes does not fully capture the levels of disadvantage experienced.

http://www.bristol.ac.uk/poverty/downloads/keyofficialdocuments/CONDEM -poverty-report.pdf
http://www.bristol.ac.uk/poverty/downloads/keyofficialdocuments/CONDEM -poverty-report.pdf


 
Last edited:

josan420

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 20, 2014
Messages
92
Likes
53
Country flag
If Non Muslim don't have any RIGHT in ARAB countries then what want from other communities?

A non Muslim can't Pray in Public, A non muslim don0t have right to VOTE, Non muslim can't have their religius temple and many more.....

So what they want?
 

santosh10

Senior Member
Joined
Oct 5, 2014
Messages
1,666
Likes
177
If Non Muslim don't have any RIGHT in ARAB countries then what want from other communities?

A non Muslim can't Pray in Public, A non muslim don0t have right to VOTE, Non muslim can't have their religius temple and many more.....

So what they want?
How Immigration Has Impoverished Britain?

75% of Pakistani and Bangladeshi Children "Live in Poverty"

British National Party

hmmm they want to have 7-8 kids on average, as people below poverty line gets social security in western nations, as per topic of this thread :ranger:
 

santosh10

Senior Member
Joined
Oct 5, 2014
Messages
1,666
Likes
177
The Islamic future of Britain


The future of Britain?

Britain is in denial. If population trends continue, by the year 2050, Britain will be a majority Muslim nation :ranger:

Britain is in denial. There is no real public debate on a historic event that is transforming the country. Mention of it occasionally surfaces in the media, but the mainstream political class never openly discuss it.

What is that historic event? By the year 2050, in a mere 37 years, Britain will be a majority Muslim nation.

This projection is based on reasonably good data. Between 2004 and 2008, the Muslim population of the UK grew at an annual rate of 6.7 percent, making Muslims 4 percent of the population in 2008. Extrapolating from those figures would mean that the Muslim population in 2020 would be 8 percent, 15 percent in 2030, 28 percent in 2040 and finally, in 2050, the Muslim population of the UK would exceed 50 percent of the total population. :ranger:

Contrast those Muslim birth rates with the non-replacement birth rates of native Europeans, the so called deathbed demography of Europe.:coffee: For a society to remain the same size, the average female has to have 2.1 children (total fertility rate). For some time now, all European countries, including Britain, have been well below that rate. The exception is Muslim Albania. For native Europeans, it seems, the consumer culture has replaced having children as life's main goal.

These startling demographic facts have been available for some time (see 'Muslim Population "Rising 10 Times Faster than Rest of Society"', The Times, 30 January 2009. Also the work of the Oxford demographer David Coleman). But on this historic transformation of the country there is silence from the political establishment.

Not everyone agrees with these demographic figures. Population projection, some say, is not an exact science. Perhaps the Muslim birth rate will drop to European levels.

But this seems to be wishful thinking. For years it was believed that Muslims would enter what is known as "demographic transition", with European Muslim birth rates falling to native European levels. But that demographic transition has not happened. In Britain, for example, the Pakistani and Bangladeshi communities continue to have significantly higher birth rates than the national average, even after more than 50 years in the country.

Over the short term (a few generations) demographic forecasting is as scientific as any social science can be. Britain and the rest of Europe are in native population decline and European Muslim birth rates are up. If that trend continues, then the projection of a majority Muslim population in Britain is sound. Even the highly respected economist and historian Niall Ferguson accepts the figures.

Many British people find it hard to believe their country could become majority Muslim. After all, it was never what they wanted so why, in a democracy, should it be happening? But we've had such disbelief before. Back in the 60s and 70s, many people scoffed at the notion that London could ever be majority non-white. But today it is.

The fact is that the deathbed demography of native Britons has come up against increasing Muslim birth rates and the result is a classic Malthusian geometric increase in the Muslim population. As Malthus emphasised, populations increase geometrically, not arithmetically. Given two populations, one declining one increasing, within a few generations the geometric increase of one over the other can be substantial.

Why has the Muslim birth rate not fallen to native levels? Just as there may be consumerist-cultural reasons for the low birth rates of native Britons, there may be strong cultural reasons for higher Muslim birth rates. As the journalist Christopher Caldwell puts it: "Muslim culture is full of messages laying out the practical advantages of procreation. As the hadith saying has it: 'Marry, for I will outnumber peoples by you.'"

Yassir Arafat understood the political power of high birth rates. The Palestinian population increased sevenfold in one generation from 450,000 in 1967 to 3.3 million in 2002. The wombs of Palestinian women, Arafat said, were the "secret weapon" in his cause. The Israeli government is very much aware of Palestinian demographics.

Population projections over the long term can be wrong. But for Britain, over the short term, whatever way you do the numbers, they all point in one direction: Britain will be a majority Muslim state by the year 2050.

The political and social consequences of all this will be significant. Britain's traditional foreign policy, particularly regarding the US and Israel, would very likely change. In fact the US and Israel are already anticipating the consequences of a majority Muslim Western Europe.

Britain's social landscape would also be changed. The Adhan, the Muslim call to prayer, would very likely be heard throughout most of Britain. The traditional iconic sights and sounds of the country would also change from church bell-towers to minarets.

Very likely all of this would happen gradually but there can be little doubt that it will happen, and it would be perfectly democratic.

Given that such a historic change is taking place, the silence of the political class is curious, to say the least. Britain, until the 1950s, could trace its ethnic and cultural ancestry back thousands of years. In 1903, in Cheddar Gorge Somerset, the remains of a pre-historic man were found. Known as Cheddar Man, DNA tests on this almost 9000 years old skeleton showed that he has living descendents today, still in Somerset.

In fact, genetic studies show that the populations of the British Isles (and Western Europe) have been stable for millennia, giving the lie to the oft quoted liberal comment that "Britain has always been a country of immigrants." That's false. Until the mass immigration of the 1950s, Britain was ethnically homogeneous. (See Bryan Sykes's Blood of the Isles.)

The long stretch of Britain's exclusively European identity is now coming to an end, yet the political class refuse publicly to discuss such a culturally transforming event. Why the silence from the politicians? Are they not proud of their achievement?

The answer is that the demographic projections of a majority Muslim Britain show the British political class to have been catastrophically wrong on multiculturalism and immigration, and they are genuinely afraid to admit it. The British political establishment cannot give the full truth about immigration.

The former Conservative MP George Walden, considering the fears of his fellow MPs in discussing particularly Muslim immigration, wrote:

"I'd be so alarmed by the situation I'd do everything possible to suggest it was under control. It's up to politicians to play mood music in a crisis, and up to the people to understand that there's little else governments can do. The last thing they can say is that we face a threat to which we can see no end because it's based on a clash of cultures. On the IRA we told the truth; on the Islamic problem, we lie." (Walden, Time to Emigrate? p.120)

Back in the 60s and 70s, the British political establishment united in condemning Enoch Powell, not just as a racist but as being factually incorrect in his demographic predictions. Since then, the subject of immigration has split British politics between the truth-denying, but morally superior, political mainstream and the truth-telling legacy of the bogeyman Enoch Powell.

For good or bad, the history of the last 40 years has vindicated Powell on many issues and shown the political establishment to have been wrong. Some major figures on the liberal-left now acknowledge this fact.

David Goodhart, the founder of Prospect magazine, in his new book The British Dream, argues convincingly that he and others on the liberal-left got it wrong on immigration.

But they also got it wrong on democracy. The projection of a Muslim majority by the year 2050, coupled with the fact that the vast majority of the British people have consistently opposed large-scale immigration, post-war British politics must represent the greatest ever failure in democracy. If ever the "Iron Law of Oligarchy" were proved right, then it is post-war British politics that has done it.:ranger:

The Islamic future of Britain - The Commentator



=>

Rocky, do you like China? yes or no
Why should I tell you?
(the above member Rocky.idf was a Bangladeshi member on a different forum)


Increasing Muslim Population to Fulfill Religious Goals in World

hmmmmm, its widely believed that the countries like Pakistan+Bangladesh are increasing population to fulfill their Islamic Fanaticism interests only.

Population of Pakistan was 34mil in 1947 while that of Bangladesh was around 36mil at the time of freedom in 1947, while now its over 180million+ in Pakistan and over 160million+ in Bangladesh. and all the population increase in these countries is mainly intended to export Islamic Jihad in other countries......

and here we always give example of India, where population of Hindus reduced from 88% in 1947 to less than 80% at present, while that of Muslims increased from 8% to 16%+ to total India's population since 1947 to date.......while about Pakistan, minorities are almost gone, Shia-Sunni-Ahmadies problem there we find now. while state of minorities in Bangladesh is also being discussed in the thread as below :facepalm:

http://defenceforumindia.com/forum/...minal-gangs-new-challenge-delhi-police-3.html

and when we want to discuss "One Child Policy" of China, then it tells us the story of that country which wants to build itself, but doesn't want others to get problem from Chinese people. "Having only as much population as it may be fed by the limited resources, the China has." the topic of this thread. :thumb:

while that of Muslim population is mainly meant to export Islamic fanaticism to other countries, the reason even if population of Bangladesh is more than the largest country of world, Russia, Bangladesh even import a third of the food for its population also, they don't want to stop population growth, for the purpose to achieve their religious goals. even if Bangladesh falls among the Least Developed Countries, having enough support from rest of the world too this way....

and if you want to build your own country, you may do anything within, good or bad, but if you are increasing Muslim population just to create problems for the non-Islamic states of world, we have a reason to ask, "WHY?"

what exactly these highly populated Muslim countries are intended in this world, we do have a reason to get to know :thumb:

for example, population of Australia is less than 25million, while its a quite big country with hefty resources. and here, they do have a reason to ask, what others are doing in this world? would Christian states also increase Christian population to have competition with others, or, others would learn something in this regard?


A FEW weeks ago in London, British Foreign Secretary David Miliband told me that 75 per cent of the terrorist plots aimed at Britain originated in the federally administered tribal areas of Pakistan. Some 800,000 Pakistanis live in Britain.

Religion is the strongest predictor of fertility in Europe.

Cookies must be enabled. | The Australian
 
Last edited:

santosh10

Senior Member
Joined
Oct 5, 2014
Messages
1,666
Likes
177
Breakup of UK from EU for sure would cause anger as it would be 3rd largest economy of europe exiting the Union.

This is an important point,business would no longer remain so friendly as it is now. And as result would lead job loss as well as some business would like to move into a economy with 600mill people than with just 60million. As the article & @Ray post says...


In the short term it would weaken UK's economy,though thing could be brought in line in the later years.
=>
@Android @HMS Astute @jouni

@HMS Astute, since the time of Mr G.Brown, i was among those who have been demanding permanent visa on arrival for the British civilians, which Australia has for the citizens of New-Zealand only. as we find Brits running from UK just because of shiits of immigrants, mainly the Muslims, and the main source of population increase comes from Pakistan+Bangladeshi families in this regard. Brit coming to my residences even says, they prefer not to go to even parks while seeing Jahadi talks by the shiits sitting in groups there in London....... whoever comes from UK just doesn't want to back, my own experience......

and when we demand this type of things for UK's citizens, including of Irish/Scottish, we generally find Australia at 23million population not capable enough to handle, if this UK's Muslim population starts moving to Australia. UK as 64 million population is simply bit bigger for Aus.....

here, how do you see this silver-line of breakup of UK from EU28? UK, the widely regarded as Yemen of EU, as discussed in the article of post#16, does pose a threat to its EU's partner on the side of growing Islamic Fanaticism there :ranger:
 
Last edited by a moderator:

santosh10

Senior Member
Joined
Oct 5, 2014
Messages
1,666
Likes
177
.
No, we shouldn't support Xingjiang separatism. Separatism in Xingjiang is fueled by an Islamic separate state ideology, which has the potential to turn radical. Groups from Pakistan have sent feelers to Xingjiang separatists. India's best bet is to have nothing to do with Xingjiang, let Paki-Islamic groups run their course in Xingjiang, and in doing that, let China feel the bite of having supported Pakistan, much in the same way Pakistan is feeling the bite of terrorist groups it supported.

Pakistan and Bangladesh "as a State" Vs a Source of Export of Islamic Fanaticism

Pakistan always stands between two aspects, first as a State for its own people only, and the second and the most powerful aspect is the religion, fighting for Islam in world. similarly we always find Bangladesh start exporting Islamic Fanatic people to promote Islam. a difference between China, which reduce population, and Pakistan+Bangladesh, which have increased their population from 34million and 36million in 1947 respectively, to over 180million and 170million respectively at present.....

and then even a friendly country like China struggle with his friends, Pakistan+Bangladesh. whether they would speak to a 'state' of Pakistan, or would be worried with a country which has become a center of export of Islamic terrorism. and the consequences China facing on its bordering state of Xinjiang.....

similar things we find about US and UK too, whenever they keep any sympathy for the immigrants of Pakistan+Bangladesh, these communities suddenly become a source of increase of Muslim population in Britain, heavily dependent on Social Security because of big families this way, along with increase in Islamic Fanaticism in UK too this way....

and this is how the Western countries struggle with immigrants of India, China as compare to Pakistan+Bangladesh. your support for Pakistan+Bangladesh suddenly brings you on the side of supporting rise of Islamic Fanaticism within UK/US. while Indian-Chinese with low population but are rising because of higher competency as compare to the locals in western nations.....
(here, if i say that population of Pakistani+Bangladeshi Muslims combined, would be higher than the population of Indians+Chinese combined in Britain/UK, people here would laugh but its a truth on the ground level, check. china and India, the two largest population countries.....)

=> to clear this topic more, have you ever heard India as a center of exporting Hindu Terrorism to China, while it share such a long border with China? i hope none in world might have made this joke before, even if India and China have fought wars in past, and are open rivals. neither you would have heard that Russia exporting Orthodox Christian terrorism to China, even if they too have fought wars with each others in 50s and 60s. but whenever you hear any bomb blast in Xinjiang state of China, you would find the source of its support came from the terror groups based in Pakistan. even if Pakistan is one of the closest ally of China, one of China's best friend "as a state of Pakistan", sharing very small border with China with this state only :facepalm:

Uighurs and China's Xinjiang Region

XUAR (Xinxiang Uighur Autonomous Region), or East Turkistan, is a territory in western China that accounts for one-sixth of China's land and is home to about twenty million people from thirteen major ethnic groups, the largest of which (more than eight million) is the Uighurs [PRON: WEE-gurs], a predominantly Muslim community with ties to Central Asia. The Uyghur American Association (UAA) says that East Turkistan is a part of Central Asia, not of China. Some Uighurs call China's presence in Xinjiang a form of imperialism, and there have been movements for independence since the1990s through separatist groups like the East Turkestan Islamic Movement (ETIM), inflamed in part by large migrations of Han Chinese to the region.

In February 2012, at least a dozen people died after being attacked on the street by Muslims armed with knives near Kashgar, the western part of Xinxiang located near China's border with Pakistan-occupied Kashmir. After the Chinese government said the men involved had links to terrorists in Pakistan, a Chinese woman was also killed in Pakistan in what was considered a retaliatory attack. China claims the rioters were trained in Pakistan and has asked Pakistan to take "credible measures" to safeguard its citizens. XUAR shares borders with five Muslim countries--Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan, Tajikistan, Afghanistan, and Pakistan--which seems to be a Chinese concern. The China-Pakistan relationship in particular has been strained by the recent killings, and questions about China's traditional friendship with Pakistan are rising.

Terrorism and Counterterrorism

During the 1990s, Uighur separatist groups in Xinjiang began frequent attacks against the Chinese government. The most famous of these groups was the ETIM, labeled as a terrorist organization by China, the United States, and the UN Security Council. China claims the group has links to al-Qaeda and says that they were trained in jihadi terror camps in Pakistan to launch attacks in Urumqi. :tsk: Reports say Pakistani officials have also admitted that the militants in western China have ties to the Pakistani Taliban and other militants in northwestern Pakistani regions along the Afghan border. Pakistan, a close ally, has assured China of full support to contain terrorism in China. Concern about Uighur terrorism flared in August 2008--just days before the Beijing Olympics--when two men attacked a military police unit (NYT) in Xinjiang, killing sixteen.

The Chinese government has taken steps to combat both separatists and terrorists in its western province and monitors religious activity in the region to keep religious leaders from spreading separatist views. Since September 11, 2001, China has raised international awareness of Uighur-related terrorism and linked its actions to the Bush administration's so-called war on terror.

But many experts say China exaggerates the danger posed by Uighur terrorists. While China has accused the Uighurs of plotting thousands of attacks, Andrew J. Nathan, a China expert at Columbia University, says, "You have to be very suspicious of those numbers."

Some experts, including Bequelin, say China's anti-separatist campaign provokes resentment, which can lead to more terrorism. But others say China's counterterrorism measures have been somewhat successful. A review of U.S. State Department documents shows a decrease in Uighur-related terrorism since the end of the 1990s. ETIM, classified as a terrorist organization during the Bush administration, is not listed as Foreign Terrorist Organization (FTO) anymore in the list updated in January 2012.

A 2010 report from the Congressional Research Service examines U.S.-China cooperation on counterterrorism, noting that tensions remain over handling Uighurs. The United States refused to hand over five Uighurs who had been captured by U.S. forces in Pakistan in 2001, despite Chinese calls to do so. After their release from Guantanamo Bay in May 2006, the Uighurs were instead transferred to Albania. In June 2009, four Uighurs who had been detained at Guantanamo were resettled in Bermuda.

Thirteen other Uighur detainees, said to be resettled in Palau, have not yet been resettled or returned to China. Though a U.S. district court ordered their release, the ruling was overturned by a U.S. Court of Appeals, which ruled that the district court "did not have the power to override immigration laws and force the executive branch to release foreigners into the United States." The issue is further complicated as the Congress passed legislation to prevent the transfer of detainees from Guantanamo to the United States.

Uighurs and China's Xinjiang Region - Council on Foreign Relations
 
Last edited:

santosh10

Senior Member
Joined
Oct 5, 2014
Messages
1,666
Likes
177
Islam is reviving British values', says former Archbishop of Canterbury Rowan Williams
02 August 2014

Islam is rejuvenating "British values", the former Archbishop of Canterbury has claimed while lambasting sections of the press for presenting Muslims as "un-British".

Rowan Williams was giving a speech at the annual Living Islam Festival in Lincolnshire on Friday, discussing what British values were and how Muslims could affect them.

He said one of the greatest gifts to Britain had been bringing back "open, honest and difficult public discussion", the Timesreported.

Asked if he thought Islam was restoring British values, he said: "Yes. I'm thinking of the way in which, for example, in Birmingham we have seen a local parish and a mosque combining together to provide family services and youth activities, both acting out of a very strong sense that this is what communities ought to do. "

Dr Williams was one of several speakers at the event organised by the Islamic Society of Britain, which saw thousands of people gather for four days of talks, debates, music, worship and bazaars. :facepalm:

The now Master of Magdalene College in Cambridge praised both Christianity and Islam for working towards community cohesion and promoting a sense of duty.

But in comments reported by the Guardian, he also objected to the notion of British values, saying they should be more universal.

"The setting-up therefore of British values against any kind of values, whether Muslim or Christian, just won't do," he said.


The Prime Minister said the UK needs a 'more muscular approach' to promoting British values :thumb:

His comments have provoked less controversy than some previous statements on Islam.

While still Archbishop of Canterbury in 2008, he sparked a row by saying the use of sharia in some aspects of British law was "unavoidable".

British Muslim organisations welcomed Dr Williams' latest remarks but secular groups objected to the suggestion that religious belonging is necessary for social responsibility.

David Cameron has been leading the charge to promote "British values" in the wake of the Birmingham Trojan Horse scandal, withsuggestions that children should be taught about the Magna Carta at schools.

In the Mail on Sunday, the Prime Minister wrote: "We need to be far more muscular in promoting British values and the institutions that uphold them."

Michael Gove also brought the issue into his curriculum changes as Education Secretary, scrapping American classics from English literature GCSEs and changing the history syllabus. :ranger:

'Islam is reviving British values', says former Archbishop of Canterbury Rowan Williams - Home News - UK - The Independent
 

Android

Regular Member
Joined
Nov 3, 2014
Messages
52
Likes
17
=>

@Android @HMS Astute @jouni

@HMS Astute, since the time of Mr G.Brown, i was among those who have been demanding permanent visa on arrival for the British civilians, which Australia has for the citizens of New-Zealand only. as we find Brits running from UK just because of shiits of immigrants, mainly the Muslims, and the main source of population increase comes from Pakistan Bangladeshi families in this regard. Brit coming to my residences even says, they prefer not to go to even parks while seeing Jahadi talks by the shiits sitting in groups there in London....... whoever comes from UK just doesn't want to back, my own experience......

and when we demand this type of things for UK's citizens, including of Irish/Scottish, we generally find Australia at 23million population not capable enough to handle, if this UK's Muslim population starts moving to Australia. UK as 64 million population is simply bit bigger for Aus.....

here, how do you see this silver-line of breakup of UK from EU28? UK, the widely regarded as Yemen of EU, as discussed in the article of post#16, does pose a threat to its EU's partner on the side of growing Islamic Fanaticism there :ranger:
France isn't any different when it comes to jihadi's neither is norway,what UK has failed to do i guess is to slow down imigration or not let muslim population or any immigrant population go out of control,right now all camroon wants is votes jus like obama from imigrant population jus like TMC in India,jihandi's have been poping out from all of europe though UK, i belive ,is the worse hit followed by france,feel free to correct me if i am wrong.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

santosh10

Senior Member
Joined
Oct 5, 2014
Messages
1,666
Likes
177
France isn't any different when it comes to jihadi's neither is norway,what UK has failed to do i guess is to slow down imigration or not let muslim population or any immigrant population go out of control,right now all camroon wants is votes jus like obama from imigrant population jus like TMC in India,jihandi's have been poping out from all of europe though UK, i belive ,is the worse hit followed by france,feel free to correct me if i am wrong.
it again comes to the same conclusion, UK wants EU as much as EU wants UK. but we do know that UK is on the worse side in EU if we consider rise of Islamic fanaticism there, as per what i understand :ranger:
 

santosh10

Senior Member
Joined
Oct 5, 2014
Messages
1,666
Likes
177
............." said:
WE cant expect all the countries and all the places are as secular as India is. And we would dumb to go there and claim that they are discriminating. They are clear in what they want, they don't want any people who look ODD and opposite to their culture. And this phenomenon is not limited to any particular nation or country. Every Nation with its unique culture doesnt always take other culture with open hands. They feel it is migrants who have to adjust, not them and there is nothing wrong in that.
its really hard to find a country like India, a non-religious country even if Hindus accounts for 80% population, which share equal rights with all the communities, regardless any religion/ race/ language etc, with providing more opportunities to the weak part of the society like women/ schedule caste etc in different exams :india:

you did get a country like India, which is hard to find anywhere else......
 

Little Fish

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 5, 2014
Messages
13
Likes
2
I have no idea what would it be in other places, but in China few people want a Muslim neighbor...I don't mean to discriminate Muslims, but I think they should at least obey the local majority's customs first. Not a curse, but I'm afraid one day in future India will break apart due to the Muslim-Hindu conflict again......and maybe only god knows whether there'll be another Mohandas Ghandi at that time.
 

Ray

The Chairman
Professional
Joined
Apr 17, 2009
Messages
43,132
Likes
23,835
I am an Indian Hindu, but I still think you're being a little unfair to the Muslims. No one ever encountered problems with Muslims, say a century ago. In fact, the stereotype of the Muslim at that time was that of a meek person. Only in recent times, so-called Muslim problem has cropped up. That itself should tell you something: that Muslims are reacting to unfavorable circumstances.
The very fact that you overwork the phrase - I am an Indian Hindu - indicates that you are neither.

You come out as convulated as that chap Biswas, who is an Indian and a Muslim, but a fanboy of the ISIS.

For your information, the divide is age old given a boost by the British 'Divide and Rule' Policy.

Please address the issues rather than bleating on the irrelevant.
 
Last edited:

Ray

The Chairman
Professional
Joined
Apr 17, 2009
Messages
43,132
Likes
23,835
I have no idea what would it be in other places, but in China few people want a Muslim neighbor...I don't mean to discriminate Muslims, but I think they should at least obey the local majority's customs first. Not a curse, but I'm afraid one day in future India will break apart due to the Muslim-Hindu conflict again......and maybe only god knows whether there'll be another Mohandas Ghandi at that time.
India will not break up because of the religious differentiation because the religious differentiation is one of the many differences that is there in the Indian society and it is managing to live with these differences, even if at times, it gets a trifle frayed.
 

Latest Replies

Global Defence

New threads

Articles

Top