Muslim population growth outpaces non-Muslims: study

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johnee

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The only way any population growth comes down is by education and poverty going down. Increase in middle class population will bring down population. Poor people expand their families to increase the number of hands that bring in money. Its the wrong way to go but that is how it is. You will not find large families in today's age where people are educated and economically secure. If we see the population of india irrespective of any ism, the growth rate slowed down due to better education and access to better health care as well. You don't find a family that makes an entire cricket team anymore.
Yusuf,
lets cut nationalities out of this debate and discuss purely based on demographics based on religion. If we do that, we find that across the countries, muslims seem to have higher number of kids on average compared to other demographics. One may argue that is simply coincidental, but when we take congnizant of the preachings of the religious leaders of the same community, one finds that this trend may not be coincidental.

PS: BTW, I, personally, find nothing wrong with this trend. Muslims, or anyone else can use non-violent methods to obtain their desired goals.
 
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Yusuf

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It also has to be feasible to feed the mouths in this day and age. 1 itself is difficult and 2 is a limit these days. Anyone would think twice about having a larger family.
 

johnee

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All one needs is to correlate population growth with education levels and standard of living in the country. You will see a lot of countries where education levels are low to have increased family sizes. But if correct family control measures are taken this can be controlled as shown by Bangladesh which is also a muslim majority population.
How can one explain the phenomenon of higher number of kids in muslim families in UK? Common sense says that these families must instead have lesser number of kids. I think religious beliefs(or preachings by religious leaders) explains the phenomenon in such cases, if not all.
 

warriorextreme

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Iam not muslim .By shaping them i mean manipulating them according to your political,economical needs.
thats totally against islam dude
muslims are not supposed to anything against quran..
they are not even supposed to take interests on savings in bank accounts
 

warriorextreme

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How can one explain the phenomenon of higher number of kids in muslim families in UK? Common sense says that these families must instead have lesser number of kids. I think religious beliefs(or preachings by religious leaders) explains the phenomenon in such cases, if not all.
its not like only muslims have more kids but other christian UK families also have many kids(seen in some discovery shows)
but i can not generalize it based on that
 

Yusuf

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How can one explain the phenomenon of higher number of kids in muslim families in UK? Common sense says that these families must instead have lesser number of kids. I think religious beliefs(or preachings by religious leaders) explains the phenomenon in such cases, if not all.
How many kids does tony blair have?
 

Flint

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Why is this thread relevant? On one hand we cannot discuss very real identity issues affecting Indian muslims, on the other hand we are allowed to make petty jokes about Muslims all over the forum and open threads like this.
 

johnee

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How many kids does tony blair have?
I dont know, you tell me. Anyway, I was contesting DD's theory by using a particular country's example. I am not referring to individuals, I am talking communities. My perception is based on lot of net articles/discussions/debates that seem to be stressing the point of larger muslim families compared to other religious demographics. These articles may be exaggerating or maybe not. But can it be denied that religious leaders of that community do stress on larger families with higher number of kids...?
 

Oracle

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Why is this thread relevant? On one hand we cannot discuss very real identity issues affecting Indian muslims, on the other hand we are allowed to make petty jokes about Muslims all over the forum and open threads like this.
Exactly my thoughts. I reported this, but Mods seem to be sleeping.
 

johnee

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It seems like all kinds of topics are taboo in our forum lately. Why get so paranoid? If the thread is not relevant, it will go to dustbin, why do we need mods to close the thread? I see that this issue is/was/willbe discussed as it has some intrinsic worth. If nothing else, it will clear the misunderstandings regarding the muslim community and let the truth out.

Anyway, I personally hope that this thread(or other threads) are not closed just because some complicated issues are discussed... If we avoid all sticky issues, than what is the use of the forum?
 

Blackwater

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its not like only muslims have more kids but other christian UK families also have many kids(seen in some discovery shows)
but i can not generalize it based on that
I said in general mostly muslims families in UK and EU have more kids. Exceptions are always there.
 

Blackwater

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Why is this thread relevant? On one hand we cannot discuss very real identity issues affecting Indian muslims, on the other hand we are allowed to make petty jokes about Muslims all over the forum and open threads like this.
This not joke this is serious issue. This is my personel view and what i have seen and experienced in UK and EU. Iam not against Islam or Muslims as whole but against the idea of increasing muslim population to have more say in the world where most of the muslim population in UK and EU has low litteracy rate and high crime rate.
 
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Yusuf

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I dont know, you tell me. Anyway, I was contesting DD's theory by using a particular country's example. I am not referring to individuals, I am talking communities. My perception is based on lot of net articles/discussions/debates that seem to be stressing the point of larger muslim families compared to other religious demographics. These articles may be exaggerating or maybe not. But can it be denied that religious leaders of that community do stress on larger families with higher number of kids...?
the mullahs can preach what they want. They have good source of funds as well to maintain big family as well. Common folks should have money to maintain a large family esp in this age.

It would be interesting to see how many kids prominent mullahs who might have preached large families have. The young ones in 30s might not have a lot I would imagine. Future generations will not have. Someone from our generation too will not.
 

Blackwater

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thats totally against islam dude
muslims are not supposed to anything against quran..
they are not even supposed to take interests on savings in bank accounts
you took me wrong in my view. I mean that we can shape them with good education,family planing awareness ,good jobs ,participation in politics etc. etc
 

Oracle

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It seems like all kinds of topics are taboo in our forum lately. Why get so paranoid? If the thread is not relevant, it will go to dustbin, why do we need mods to close the thread? I see that this issue is/was/willbe discussed as it has some intrinsic worth. If nothing else, it will clear the misunderstandings regarding the muslim community and let the truth out.

Anyway, I personally hope that this thread(or other threads) are not closed just because some complicated issues are discussed... If we avoid all sticky issues, than what is the use of the forum?
It's very comfortable to debate while we are on a Muslim bashing spree, eh?

The thread title is "Muslim population growth outpaces non-Muslims: study".

If we need to discuss then we need to come up with some logic on why population growth amongst Muslims are higher. Illiteracy being one of them. We should attack the post and not the community as a whole.

Just look at your first post on this thread :
As a civilization gets prosperous, it becomes softer, it is ready to buy peace by paying ransom, it is ready to beg for peace by surrendering before the rampaging hordes of enemies.

As a civilization get poorer, they become barbarous, they attack any other civilization for the loots and spoils(including slaves).

Generally, Indian civilization tends to march towards prosperity and as the fruit of Indian economy ripens, the attacks of barbarian civilizations begins. Eventually, due to some weak link, one or the other barbarian succeeds to breach the walls of security and the Indian civilization suffers. Again, the civilization frees itself and marches towards the prosperity, gets looted and again enslaved. This cycle goes on. Unless, the Indian civilization shows ruthless attitude towards the barbarian hordes, the cycle with repeat infinitely. This is survival of the fittest....it is more a matter of pshyche.

So, if some religion is increasing their numbers(population), then it is good for them. You are right, there is no negativity in it. Those who see this as weakness are missing the point by which such ideologies gain ground...
Is that in any way relevant to the thread title?

Btw, Hindus are also almost a billion in population. And maybe more, if we take into account Hindu population of other Countries. Let's try to be a little sensitive in here.
 

johnee

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the mullahs can preach what they want. They have good source of funds as well to maintain big family as well. Common folks should have money to maintain a large family esp in this age.

It would be interesting to see how many kids prominent mullahs who might have preached large families have. The young ones in 30s might not have a lot I would imagine. Future generations will not have. Someone from our generation too will not.
Mullahs are an important influence on the community, arent they? Any community would be influenced by its religious heads and their preachings. If the mullahs do teach it, then it will have influence in many pockets if not most. So, to link the religious preachings with population growth is not intrinsically wrong, is it?
 

warriorextreme

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It's very comfortable to debate while we are on a Muslim bashing spree, eh?

The thread title is "Muslim population growth outpaces non-Muslims: study".

If we need to discuss then we need to come up with some logic on why population growth amongst Muslims are higher. Illiteracy being one of them. We should attack the post and not the community as a whole.

Just look at your first post on this thread :


Is that in any way relevant to the thread title?

Btw, Hindus are also almost a billion in population. And maybe more, if we take into account Hindu population of other Countries. Let's try to be a little sensitive in here.
what we need to discuss here must be is this large family size backed by religion?shall it be stopped either by law or by preachings from muslim spiritual leaders?there should also be a law to prevent all from having more than 2 babies not just any one community but all communities.
 

ejazr

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Wow look at the numbers of growth, if Muslims are really delibrately trying to increase their population then they are surely doing a very bad job of it. The study actually breaks the myth of Muslim demographic takeover.

And about birth control, only permanant uses like vasectomy are considered haram. Use of condoms or temporary birth control is not haram. And this is the view of even the most conservative of religious scholars. Hence you have one of the lowest birth rates in Mullah ruled Iran of just 1.4. And even in Afghanistan Mullas are encouragin people to use brith control. Mullahs help promote birth control in Afghanistan. So if the Mullahs in as conservative and backward place as in Afghanistan are supporting birth control does it make any sense to say that Mullahs oppose birth control?

High birth rates are directly related to literacy and poverty and not some Mullah diktats.

Here is an article that talks on the report

Despite fears, Muslims growing only modestly in world and Canada


An extensive new report on the growth of the world's Muslim population should put to rest a lot of fears
Anxious commentators have made sweeping predictions that Canada will have a Muslim prime minister in a decade as a result of high Muslim immigration and birth rates
Other scare mongers have predicted Europe will be 40 per cent Muslim by 2030, and thus be largely governed by oppressive Shariah law. Europe, say these worried forecasters, might as well now be called "Eurabia."
However, the respected Pew Forum on Religion and Public Life released a major report today, titled The Future of the Global Muslim Population, that debunks all these extremist projections, including regarding Canada.
The non-partisan Pew Forum's army of researchers, mostly academics from scores of countries, project that Muslims will, indeed, grow in relative size in the next two decades – expanding to 26.4 per cent of the world's population by 2030, a modest rise from the current 23.4 per cent.
The Pew Forum's 209-page report, coordinated in the U.S., also acknowledges that Muslims do generally have higher birthrates than the rest of the world's population. But not to the extent many fear.
What does it predict for Canada
That the Muslim population of this country will triple by 2030, to 2.7 million.
That in two decades Canada will have the second highest number of Muslims in all of North and South America, behind the United States and ahead of Argentina.
Indeed, the Pew Forum forecasts that 6.6 per cent of the Canadian population will be Muslim by 2030, a jump from the current 2.8 per cent.
That means Canada will have a much higher percentage of Muslims than will the U.S. (where Muslims will make up only 1.7 per cent of the population) and Argentina (where they will account for 2.6 per cent of all residents).
The biggest Muslim source countries for Canada in the future are expected to be Pakistan, Iran, Afghanistan, Bangladesh and Algeria.
The prospect of Canada having 2.7 million Muslims (such as the Metro Vancouver Muslims in photo left) represent a massive change compared to prior to 1961, when Canada only had 1,000 foreign-born Muslims. But the Pew figures don't add up to a looming Muslim takeover of the country.
Similarly, there is no doubt that Islam is on the rise in Europe, but not in runaway fashion.
The Pew Forum report projects that Europe will be eight per cent Muslim by 2030, a rise from six per cent today.
That will hardly turn Europe into "Eurabia," nor lead to the inevitable destruction, as many have worried, of the so-called European way of life.
Indeed, the Pew Forum projects that the world's five largest Muslim countries will soon be outside the Arab countries of the Middle East.
The Pew Forum projects in 20 years there will be 256 million Muslims in Pakistan, 238 million in Indonesia, 236 million in India, 187 million in Bangladesh and 116 million in Nigeria. The most Islamic Middle Eastern country will be Egypt, with 105 million Muslims.
Even though the world's Muslim growth rates will not be anywhere near as strong as the opponents of Islam have warned, the Pew Forum report does confirm that Muslim birth rates are expected to remain higher than the average.
For instance, the Pew Forum's global survey confirms the earlier results of a 2010 Statistics Canada report, which showed that Canadian Muslims average 2.4 children per woman, compared to 1.6 children per woman for the rest of the population.
Why are Muslims tending to have more babies? The Pew report says it's because of regional cultural traditions, because they have a higher percentage of women who are of child-bearing age and because many live in developing countries that are rapidly improving their health and economic conditions.
But rapid Muslim birth rates are not necessarily going to continue. The Pew Forum notes that Islamic birth rates have been declining in recent decades and will keep on doing so.
Muslim birth rates are "dropping primarily due to falling fertility rates in many Muslim-majority countries, including such populous nations as Indonesia and Bangladesh," says the Pew report.
"Fertility is dropping as more women in these countries obtain a secondary education, living standards rise and people move from rural areas to cities and towns."
The Pew Forum report, funded in part by the Templeton Foundation, has done everyone a favour by taking the debate about the future of the global Muslim population out of the hands of fear-mongers -- and putting it into a realistic perspective.
 
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johnee

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It's very comfortable to debate while we are on a Muslim bashing spree, eh?

The thread title is "Muslim population growth outpaces non-Muslims: study".

If we need to discuss then we need to come up with some logic on why population growth amongst Muslims are higher. Illiteracy being one of them. We should attack the post and not the community as a whole.
Firstly, I admit that it is easy to discuss about the issue that is related to others and difficult to discuss about issue that is related to ourselves. So, perhaps, it is easy for me to discuss this issue. But some other issue may be easy for others to discuss and hard for me. But that is no logic to ban the topic itself. BTW, I would not say it 'bashing'.

Secondly, it is no attack on the community to point out that the community's population increases at a higher rate then other communities. Its simply another topic to be discussed in the forum.

Thirdly, how can one predetermine that religion has no role to play in the increase in population even before any discussion takes place. If you start from an assumption that religion cannot be a factor, then the discussion will be steered in that direction. If the discussion brings out that religion had no role, that is different. But if one is anxious to give a clean chit just for the sake of political correctness, then thats not the right way to go.

Lastly, we dont need to come up with any logic of our own. We simply need to understand the logic that is already going on...


Just look at your first post on this thread :


Is that in any way relevant to the thread title?

Btw, Hindus are also almost a billion in population. And maybe more, if we take into account Hindu population of other Countries. Let's try to be a little sensitive in here.
Its not simply the total populations that are being discussed. What is being discussed is the increase in the population perhaps with a motive of demographic domination.
 
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