Multi Role Helicopters (MRH) to be inducted into Indian Navy

Bhurki

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The point of these forums is to examine a set of jumbled facts and to piece them together to find those reasons. If everyone here was making independent conclusions they are living in a bubble and not challenging themselves to find the truth. I challenge the premise of others so I can find that truth. It is the basis of deductive reasoning.
If you can't come up with reason better than "US MIC influence" as to why Indian Navy chose SH-60 and not the "much better french heli" as per you, then i think you're following the premise of challenging others a far bit more than thinking of a reqson yourselves.
 

Armand2REP

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If you can't come up with reason better than "US MIC influence" as to why Indian Navy chose SH-60 and not the "much better french heli" as per you, then i think you're following the premise of challenging others a far bit more than thinking of a reqson yourselves.
When the price of the Caracal is $72.6 million including ASW kit and the SeaHawk is $109 million, it is clear who should be L1. Caracal had won L1 in Poland with a contract already signed and then a pro-US government change reneged on the deal after we had cancelled sale of Mistral to Russia at their begging. Poland likes to lick Uncle Sam's boots so it doesn't surprise me so much. What did the US offer to overturn an L1 bid? In the case of Poland they offered to station thousands of troops on their soil to protect them from Russia. India does not beg for US protection like Poland so what could the reason be? The US must have offered something on the side to overturn an L1 bid. The sale was announced with several other US deals so it must be part of a larger package.
 

Bhurki

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When the price of the Caracal is $72.6 million including ASW kit and the SeaHawk is $109 million, it is clear who should be L1. Caracal had won L1 in Poland with a contract already signed and then a pro-US government change reneged on the deal after we had cancelled sale of Mistral to Russia at their begging. Poland likes to lick Uncle Sam's boots so it doesn't surprise me so much. What did the US offer to overturn an L1 bid? In the case of Poland they offered to station thousands of troops on their soil to protect them from Russia. India does not beg for US protection like Poland so what could the reason be? The US must have offered something on the side to overturn an L1 bid. The sale was announced with several other US deals so it must be part of a larger package.
I'm completely unaware.. What package?
 

ezsasa

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Any other equipment besides this? Afaik, comcasa was for integration of previously bought stuff, p8i, drone etc..
Nothing is free.. new equipment has to be bought and integrated for P-8i to be able to be communicate encrypted data to other american equipment.
 

Bhurki

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Nothing is free.. new equipment has to be bought and integrated for P-8i to be able to be communicate encrypted data to other american equipment.
Thats obvious.. I was asking about the 'larger package' that @Armand2REP was talking about...
 

Aaj ka hero

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Why they chose sikorsky helicopter? is BECAUSE OF THE real time COMMUNICATIONS IT CAN DO with JAPANESE NAVY and US NAVY and we practice with these navies every year ofcourse for those global times SUPER NAVY SUBMARINES.
And there were report of HOW US P-8s in indian ocean help india ones in finding those pesky people.
If you have communication toolwith which you can communicate to the helicopter from plane and transfer datas, I don't see a problem.
But the biggest benefit is seamless TRAINING.
And if I am not wrong caracal was not in the tender.
It is costly, well then build your own, because THE SET OF REQUIREMENTS for us type of nation will always be different from whichever navy.
Although my personal favourite is still not even in prototype i.e. Mi-38 naval version.
 
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Wisemarko

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Thats obvious.. I was asking about the 'larger package' that @Armand2REP was talking about...
You don’t need US platform to communicate with one another. Link-16/ MDS-LVT is available for all NATO and friendly forces (also equips French Air-force Rafale). It can transmit all relevant data across all platforms whether American or not.

Without common data links, even US equipment cannot “talk” to one another.
 
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Prashant12

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India to sign deal with US for 24 multi-mission Seahawk helicopters in November


The navy considers this its "most important" purchase, since a generation of warships are functioning without on-board helos

By Ajai Shukla
Business Standard, 24th Oct 19


India is finally concluding a procurement contract for multi-role helicopters the navy has publicly labelled as “most important”. Defence Ministry sources confirm a contract will be signed in November with the US Department of Defense (the Pentagon) for 24 Lockheed Martin MH-60R Seahawks for $2-to-2.6 billion.

These choppers with foldable blades will be stationed on naval warships to perform a range of combat missions. These include anti-submarine warfare (ASW), anti-surface warfare (ASuW), combat search and rescue (CSAR), vertical replenishment (VERTREP) and medical evacuation (MEDEVAC). The Seahawk is also used to fly in Special Forces for commando missions.

For decades, the Indian Navy’s Sea King Mk 42B/C helicopters carried out these tasks. But with the Sea King being retired, helicopter hangars on board an entire generation of Indian warships are empty, severely reducing the warships’ combat capability.

The navy’s ten-odd Sea Kings are being shared between an aircraft carrier, 14 destroyers, 15 frigates and three ASW corvettes. Several other warships in production will also require multi-mission helicopters when they enter service.

Given this urgency, the navy is buying 24 MH-60R Seahawks in flyaway condition, and then plans to build another 99 in India through the Strategic Partner (SP) route.

For building them here, Lockheed Martin, the “original equipment manufacturer” (OEM), will have to transfer manufacturing technology to an Indian SP firm.

Given Lockheed Martin’s burgeoning partnership with Tata Advanced Systems Ltd (TASL), it is likely that TASL will be designated the SP for the task. The two collaborate in building a range of aerospace components in Hyderabad and have announced a partnership to build the F-16 fighter in India if the Indian Air Force buys the aircraft.

The first 24 Seahawks are being procured through the Foreign Military Sales (FMS) route – a US-led process that involves no tendering. Instead, the Pentagon, acting as a paid agent of the buyer (the Indian Navy), negotiates price and supply terms with the OEM (Lockheed Martin).

In most such deals, the foreign buyer usually manages to procure the equipment more cheaply than the US military did for itself. This is because the Pentagon fixes as a benchmark the price the US military paid for its last procurement of that equipment. Upon that, the Pentagon then imposes a price reduction, demanding greater production efficiency and the continual amortisation of overhead costs during the production run.

FMS procurements also come with US government guarantees on weapons and equipment performance.

The MH-60R Seahawk helicopter – originally built by US firm Sikorsky, which was bought by Lockheed Martin for $9 billion in November 2015 – has had a long production run. Introduced into the US Navy in 2006, there are 300 Seahawks in service, including in the US, Danish, Australian and Saudi Arabian navies. South Korea is considering the purchase of 12 Seahawks.

The Seahawks the US Navy bought have since been upgraded with the AN/APS-153 multi-mode radar, making them highly effective at detecting the periscope of enemy submarines. India will be getting the upgraded version.

Lockheed Martin says the Seahawk has a 98 per cent availability rate and the lowest life-cycle cost in its class (costing less than $5,000 for each flying hour).

The defence ministry gave the go-ahead for buying 24 Seahawks on August 25, 2018. On April 2, the US Congress was informed about the potential sale “for an estimated cost of $2.6 billion”.

This includes the cost of 24 fully kitted and armed helicopters, along with 12 spare engines, six spare multi-mode radars and six multi-spectral targeting systems. The deal includes 1,000 sonobuoys, or portable sonar systems, for detecting enemy submarines; and Hellfire missiles, rockets and torpedoes to destroy surface and sub-surface targets.

A range of communications equipment is also being transferred, enabled by the Communications Compatibility and Security Agreement (COMCASA) that India and the US signed in September 2018.

Sikorsky has an illustrious legacy in helicopter building. It built the first helicopter to carry the US president and, even today, the US president’s helicopter – designated “Marine One” – is a Sikorsky machine. The famed UH-60 Black Hawk, a variant of which was used in the raid that killed Osama bin Laden in Abbottabad, Pakistan, is a Sikorsky helicopter.
 

Deathstar

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India to sign deal with US for 24 multi-mission Seahawk helicopters in November


The navy considers this its "most important" purchase, since a generation of warships are functioning without on-board helos

By Ajai Shukla
Business Standard, 24th Oct 19


India is finally concluding a procurement contract for multi-role helicopters the navy has publicly labelled as “most important”. Defence Ministry sources confirm a contract will be signed in November with the US Department of Defense (the Pentagon) for 24 Lockheed Martin MH-60R Seahawks for $2-to-2.6 billion.

These choppers with foldable blades will be stationed on naval warships to perform a range of combat missions. These include anti-submarine warfare (ASW), anti-surface warfare (ASuW), combat search and rescue (CSAR), vertical replenishment (VERTREP) and medical evacuation (MEDEVAC). The Seahawk is also used to fly in Special Forces for commando missions.

For decades, the Indian Navy’s Sea King Mk 42B/C helicopters carried out these tasks. But with the Sea King being retired, helicopter hangars on board an entire generation of Indian warships are empty, severely reducing the warships’ combat capability.

The navy’s ten-odd Sea Kings are being shared between an aircraft carrier, 14 destroyers, 15 frigates and three ASW corvettes. Several other warships in production will also require multi-mission helicopters when they enter service.

Given this urgency, the navy is buying 24 MH-60R Seahawks in flyaway condition, and then plans to build another 99 in India through the Strategic Partner (SP) route.

For building them here, Lockheed Martin, the “original equipment manufacturer” (OEM), will have to transfer manufacturing technology to an Indian SP firm.

Given Lockheed Martin’s burgeoning partnership with Tata Advanced Systems Ltd (TASL), it is likely that TASL will be designated the SP for the task. The two collaborate in building a range of aerospace components in Hyderabad and have announced a partnership to build the F-16 fighter in India if the Indian Air Force buys the aircraft.

The first 24 Seahawks are being procured through the Foreign Military Sales (FMS) route – a US-led process that involves no tendering. Instead, the Pentagon, acting as a paid agent of the buyer (the Indian Navy), negotiates price and supply terms with the OEM (Lockheed Martin).

In most such deals, the foreign buyer usually manages to procure the equipment more cheaply than the US military did for itself. This is because the Pentagon fixes as a benchmark the price the US military paid for its last procurement of that equipment. Upon that, the Pentagon then imposes a price reduction, demanding greater production efficiency and the continual amortisation of overhead costs during the production run.

FMS procurements also come with US government guarantees on weapons and equipment performance.

The MH-60R Seahawk helicopter – originally built by US firm Sikorsky, which was bought by Lockheed Martin for $9 billion in November 2015 – has had a long production run. Introduced into the US Navy in 2006, there are 300 Seahawks in service, including in the US, Danish, Australian and Saudi Arabian navies. South Korea is considering the purchase of 12 Seahawks.

The Seahawks the US Navy bought have since been upgraded with the AN/APS-153 multi-mode radar, making them highly effective at detecting the periscope of enemy submarines. India will be getting the upgraded version.

Lockheed Martin says the Seahawk has a 98 per cent availability rate and the lowest life-cycle cost in its class (costing less than $5,000 for each flying hour).

The defence ministry gave the go-ahead for buying 24 Seahawks on August 25, 2018. On April 2, the US Congress was informed about the potential sale “for an estimated cost of $2.6 billion”.

This includes the cost of 24 fully kitted and armed helicopters, along with 12 spare engines, six spare multi-mode radars and six multi-spectral targeting systems. The deal includes 1,000 sonobuoys, or portable sonar systems, for detecting enemy submarines; and Hellfire missiles, rockets and torpedoes to destroy surface and sub-surface targets.

A range of communications equipment is also being transferred, enabled by the Communications Compatibility and Security Agreement (COMCASA) that India and the US signed in September 2018.


Sikorsky has an illustrious legacy in helicopter building. It built the first helicopter to carry the US president and, even today, the US president’s helicopter – designated “Marine One” – is a Sikorsky machine. The famed UH-60 Black Hawk, a variant of which was used in the raid that killed Osama bin Laden in Abbottabad, Pakistan, is a Sikorsky helicopter.
How does it fare with other offers?
 

WolfPack86

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Important to note NH90, which had bid for
@IndianNavy
MRH Vs.
@Sikorsky
’s S-70B Sea Hawk isn’t being pitched for the 123 NMRH. Mostly owing to legal hurdles post-Agusta episode (AW a partner in NH90). Therefore
@AirbusHeli
H225M *theoretically* goes up against MH-60R.
 

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