Multi Role Helicopters (MRH) to be inducted into Indian Navy

[Rikbo88]

@Rikbo88 Sir, are you in the know regarding any plans for any Indian company becoming part of the S-70B international supply chain? Indian cos. are now producing components for quite a lot of US helos including the S-92 and CH-47F...the AH-64E and Bell 407GX could be added to this list in future.

As I have noted before discussions have already taken place with the IN regarding production in India. The numbers have to be large to justify setting up a production line and standing up the IN to support a production aircraft. The follow on procurement of additional NMRH aircraft would allow that to happen. The first 24 70B's would be built in main production facility in Stratford, CT USA. Sikorsky already has experience in these types of activities with the Blackhawk line.

 

[Rikbo88]

Hope to be able to take this picture with an Indian Ocean sun set in the near future!

 

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[Prashant12]

Navy Wants Sikorsky S-70B Soon

NEW DELHI. The Indian Navy is looking forward to conclude a contract for Sikorsky S-70B as soon as possible, according to Admiral Sunil Lanba. The Navy Chief told India Strategic in an interview that the Government was looking for one more extension for holding the price from the company, now acquired by Lockheed Martin, and that an agreement for 16 helicopters with 8 options should be finalised soon.

Asked if the Navy was considering any other machine, including from Lockheed Martin, he said “there is no need to change the specifications” and the avionics and equipment onboard the S-70B multi role helicopter “are state-of-the-art.”

According to the manufacturer, the S-70B can deliver unparalleled performance in support of a wide variety of missions as it is equipped with an integrated glass cockpit, and advanced systems designed around a rugged airframe, to support dynamic operational demands of a navy.

http://www.indiastrategic.in/2016/12/15/navy-wants-sikorsky-s-70b-soon/

 

[kstriya]

What is with HAL's love for light this or that! Why cant HAL start a medium category Helo program to fulfill the requirements of IAF, IA and Navy. We are just buying 16 examples from Sikorsky we need hundreds more hope some one in HAL has a plan..... or do we have a make in India or TOT for the Naval helo's.

 

[airtel]

What is with HAL's love for light this or that! Why cant HAL start a medium category Helo program to fulfill the requirements of IAF, IA and Navy.

I think we dont have such powerful Engines .

we should collaborate with France to develop More Powerful Engines .

 

[SajeevJino]

What is with HAL's love for light this or that! Why cant HAL start a medium category Helo program to fulfill the requirements of IAF, IA and Navy. We are just buying 16 examples from Sikorsky we need hundreds more hope some one in HAL has a plan..... or do we have a make in India or TOT for the Naval helo's.

Cry more dear, But have to remember this always ..DRDO or HAL is not capable to make such awesome MRH helicopters

 

[Defcon 1]

What is with HAL's love for light this or that! Why cant HAL start a medium category Helo program to fulfill the requirements of IAF, IA and Navy. We are just buying 16 examples from Sikorsky we need hundreds more hope some one in HAL has a plan..... or do we have a make in India or TOT for the Naval helo's.

There is already a decade old program to construct medium weight helicopters known IMRH. You should look it up. Its in limbo right now.
HAL's (and armed forces) priority as a whole for light weight helos is right. Dhruv, a single platform has been used to develop Rudra, LCH and LUH. In terms of number of orders, a medium weight helicopter will not reach as many orders as Dhruv and its derivatives.

Another HAL has been manufacturing light Cheetah and Chetaks for decades. It has no experience in medium helicopter manufacturing

 

[Blackwater]

Navy Wants Sikorsky S-70B Soon

NEW DELHI. The Indian Navy is looking forward to conclude a contract for Sikorsky S-70B as soon as possible, according to Admiral Sunil Lanba. The Navy Chief told India Strategic in an interview that the Government was looking for one more extension for holding the price from the company, now acquired by Lockheed Martin, and that an agreement for 16 helicopters with 8 options should be finalised soon.

Asked if the Navy was considering any other machine, including from Lockheed Martin, he said “there is no need to change the specifications” and the avionics and equipment onboard the S-70B multi role helicopter “are state-of-the-art.”

According to the manufacturer, the S-70B can deliver unparalleled performance in support of a wide variety of missions as it is equipped with an integrated glass cockpit, and advanced systems designed around a rugged airframe, to support dynamic operational demands of a navy.

http://www.indiastrategic.in/2016/12/15/navy-wants-sikorsky-s-70b-soon/

first tender will introduced then cancel, then 10 yrs, then S-90 will come in market, then process starts again

:biggrin2::biggrin2::biggrin2::biggrin2::biggrin2::biggrin2::biggrin2:

 

[Innocent]

Any new update on mrh ???
.....................

 

[busesaway]

Do you really think India should be spending money on importing military hardware from rich western countries?

I have another idea. Why don't we form a relationship with Trump's US that sees it protect India against Islamists, Pakistan, and the greater Middle East. It could take on a huge chuck on India's military burdens, including:

• Islamists (through counter-terror operations by the US)
• Pakistan (through US military based in the Kashmir region)
• greater Middle East (albeit India is not involved there, it would allow India to have some leverage over the richer Middle Eastern states)
• Arabian Sea (why should we get involved if the US can do all the leg work?)

I don't think we'll enter a conflict with China beyond stupid posturing on the border. We should use diplomatic channels (remember that this is China, not Muslims) to get the country to allow the cultural independence of Tibet, to refrain from supporting Islamists and Maoists, and to swing away from the Middle East.

The military expenditure being given to western countries should be spent on research and development in India instead. We should set up a "defense university" somewhere like Bengaluru which would undertake research and development of military hardware - it would greatly increase scientific knowledge in India, and create many jobs too!

Would it not be more fun to research everything and gain knowledge, then simply waste money on importing the stuff?

 

[Rikbo88]

Have not been on this forum for a long time. No reason too, just delay after delay after delay. Now, finally put out of its misery by the Indian MOD. So sad, this was an awesome opportunity for the Indian Navy to really step up their game and get one of, if not the best ASW & ASuW rotary wing aircraft that are currently in service. Tried and true airframe and state of the art mission and avionics system that is a dream for pilots and operators, designed with them in mind.
I am angry, angry at one entity, the Indian MOD. They screwed this program and must take full blame for the their unreasonable delays and continuous demands for extending the bid price no less than 5 times. To Sikorsky's credit, they gave in time and time again extending the pricing despite years of cost escalation that is a normal result of the proposal process. Things don't get cheaper.
This aircraft could have served multiple missions and would likely have led to Sikorsky signing an expansion of their existing cooperation agreement (Tata) to help India gain experience and the skill sets needed to manufacture aircraft in country. Now, all is lost. What a freaking shame!
I would have looked forward to helping with the new integration challenges to meet the unique Indian requirements but it is not to be. Once again, the Indian Navy is stuck with decades old aircraft that are showing their age.
Just unbelievable and inexcusable!

 

[ezsasa]

Have not been on this forum for a long time. No reason too, just delay after delay after delay. Now, finally put out of its misery by the Indian MOD. So sad, this was an awesome opportunity for the Indian Navy to really step up their game and get one of, if not the best ASW & ASuW rotary wing aircraft that are currently in service. Tried and true airframe and state of the art mission and avionics system that is a dream for pilots and operators, designed with them in mind.
I am angry, angry at one entity, the Indian MOD. They screwed this program and must take full blame for the their unreasonable delays and continuous demands for extending the bid price no less than 5 times. To Sikorsky's credit, they gave in time and time again extending the pricing despite years of cost escalation that is a normal result of the proposal process. Things don't get cheaper.
This aircraft could have served multiple missions and would likely have led to Sikorsky signing an expansion of their existing cooperation agreement (Tata) to help India gain experience and the skill sets needed to manufacture aircraft in country. Now, all is lost. What a freaking shame!
I would have looked forward to helping with the new integration challenges to meet the unique Indian requirements but it is not to be. Once again, the Indian Navy is stuck with decades old aircraft that are showing their age.
Just unbelievable and inexcusable!

Looks like you are not following up on news, Helicopters are now part of strategic partner policy along with fighter jets, submarines and armoured vehicles. Policy was supposed to be released by March 2017, but due to queries raised by companies the policy was released in may.

All tenders which were stuck prior to Nov 2016 are being cancelled and re-issued as per DPP 2016 and deliveries of some orders have started being delivered on the ground(BPJ, helmets etc..). Frankly we haven't seen this much activity in defence procurement that happened in last three years compared to ten years before that.

MoD is definitely going as per a priority sequence, where does MRH stands in that priority list is for you to find out.

 

[abingdonboy]

Have not been on this forum for a long time. No reason too, just delay after delay after delay. Now, finally put out of its misery by the Indian MOD. So sad, this was an awesome opportunity for the Indian Navy to really step up their game and get one of, if not the best ASW & ASuW rotary wing aircraft that are currently in service. Tried and true airframe and state of the art mission and avionics system that is a dream for pilots and operators, designed with them in mind.
I am angry, angry at one entity, the Indian MOD. They screwed this program and must take full blame for the their unreasonable delays and continuous demands for extending the bid price no less than 5 times. To Sikorsky's credit, they gave in time and time again extending the pricing despite years of cost escalation that is a normal result of the proposal process. Things don't get cheaper.
This aircraft could have served multiple missions and would likely have led to Sikorsky signing an expansion of their existing cooperation agreement (Tata) to help India gain experience and the skill sets needed to manufacture aircraft in country. Now, all is lost. What a freaking shame!
I would have looked forward to helping with the new integration challenges to meet the unique Indian requirements but it is not to be. Once again, the Indian Navy is stuck with decades old aircraft that are showing their age.
Just unbelievable and inexcusable!

I share your disappointment and frustration @Rikbo88 , it is just what you say; unbelievable and inexcusable but alas not surprising. The S-70B deal found itself in an unfavourable position as the govts changed and with them priorities and policies.

The orginal NMRH deal was begun by the previous govt (UPA) and was for just 16 (+8) units to be made 100% off the shelf and just as the govt was on the way out they had given the greenlight to the S-70B (over the NH-90), in comes the new govt and intially they don't appoint a permenant defence minister leading to more delays and when the new DM does come in he orders an immediate review of all pending defence deals and a prioritising of requirements, it soon becomes apparent the IN's requirements for NMRHs are vastly more than the 16+8 units this deal will offer. Around the same time the new DM starts working on a new defence procurement policy (DPP-2016) with the all important Strategic Partnership (SP) chapter, this is greatly in line with the new Govt's/PM's "Make in India" policy but sadly a deal such as this one that will be 100% off the shelf and that was begun under a previous DPP (2013) that would not meet the IN's needs at all simply becomes undesirable and doomed to fail. In between of course you have the added complications of the change of ownership of the S-70B from Sikorsky to LM.

Alas, not all is lost, the new DPP-2016 SP chapter has just been cleared by the cabinet and will be implemented within the next 9 months with an explicit intention of expediting the procurement process. A specific area identified under the SP route are NMRHs and LM will have every opportunity to regain their lost ground but this time the numbers are going to be >100 units from the very outset and they will have to be made in India with an Indian partner (TASL?).

Perhaps there will short term pain for long term gain, I think LM/S-70B is best placed to gain this much larger deal given the previous success, the demand certainly has not gone away, it has only grown.

 

[Rikbo88]

Looks like you are not following up on news, Helicopters are now part of strategic partner policy along with fighter jets, submarines and armoured vehicles. Policy was supposed to be released by March 2017, but due to queries raised by companies the policy was released in may.

All tenders which were stuck prior to Nov 2016 are being cancelled and re-issued as per DPP 2016 and deliveries of some orders have started being delivered on the ground(BPJ, helmets etc..). Frankly we haven't seen this much activity in defence procurement that happened in last three years compared to ten years before that.

MoD is definitely going as per a priority sequence, where does MRH stands in that priority list is for you to find out.

I am encouraged that a new tender will be offered but this does not change the fact that 5+ years have been wasted and the groundwork for having India manufacture the S-70B in country had already been done. I fully understand the desire to stand up India with an in-country capability but the need for these aircraft is now. Had the contract been finalized and executed early on India would be looking at taking the delivery of aircraft this year. This was just plain stupidity on the part of the Indian government and the MOD.

 

[ezsasa]

I am encouraged that a new tender will be offered but this does not change the fact that 5+ years have been wasted and the groundwork for having India manufacture the S-70B in country had already been done. I fully understand the desire to stand up India with an in-country capability but the need for these aircraft is now. Had the contract been finalized and executed early on India would be looking at taking the delivery of aircraft this year. This was just plain stupidity on the part of the Indian government and the MOD.

India does not have a setup like pentagon where procurements are handled centrally yet, there are steps being taken to form a central defence procurement agency independent of govt of the day.

You need to realise the previous govt failed not only in defence procurement but also in many areas.

As for as MRH Is concerned, you need to hope that modi govt continues for atleast another term in 2019. If modi does not come in next term, MRH will go back into dustbin.

Dassault rafale is an example of changes in procurement these days, first fighter will land on India by 2019 when deal was made in 2015 after 10 years of delay.

Now a days Defence acquisition council (DAC) meeting are happening almost every month and there is forward movement on procurement , during the previous dispensation this meeting used to happen every six months without any outcomes.

 

[abingdonboy]

I fully understand the desire to stand up India with an in-country capability but the need for these aircraft is now

Sadly, in India the requirements of the armed forces does not carry much weight; they have no power to make procurement decsions, that it entirely in the hands of the civilians and so you see this kind of mis-matched thinking and delays as a result.

That said, the new govt seems to be taking procurement reforms seriously and is attempting to create more effective mechanisms to avoid repeating these mistakes forever more.

 

[Sancho]

India puts forward new plan to buy helicopters after ending talks with Lockheed

After suspending negotiations with Lockheed Martin in April over the price of 16 naval multirole helicopters, India’s Ministry of Defence has mooted a fresh plan for acquiring 24 helicopters for about $1.87 billion.

A high-priority global tender will now be floated instead to source the 24 helicopters off the shelf to meet a pressing need within the Indian Navy, according to an MoD official.

Negotiations with Lockheed were terminated following expiry of the price bid in March, and subsequently the tender was withdrawn in April, he said...

...The service asked the MoD in July to consider procuring the helicopters from the U.S. under the Foreign Military Sales program, a senior Indian Navy official said.

However, the request was turn down because Indian procurement procedures do not allow for single-supplier preference but instead prefer global competitions through which weapons or platforms are selected based on lowest price...

https://www.defensenews.com/naval/2...helicopters-after-ending-talks-with-lockheed/

 

[cobra commando]

__________________________

 

[Wisemarko]

MH-60R is available through FMS only while cheaper and older S-70b is available from Lockheed as a direct commercial sale.