MTA Program by UAC/HAL

[SPIEZ]

Are Indian engineers good enough to work on this project? If I were the expert and was offered an inexperienced help, I'd rather do it all by myself than train him and expect him to do it well. Aviation is one area where we don't produce enough good engineers and young people don't chose this field because we don't have a booming aviation sector. Hence. I am not surprised this happened. It would be very kind of Russia if they agreed to allow Indian engineers to work under their Russian expert counterparts.

Sir! these Indians brains have developed the LCA, ALH etc etc ... Also they have been in aviation industry in the form of missiles Agni series and also space vehicles like PSLV.

One can do post graduation in aeronautical engineering, but very limited undergraduation in aeronautical.

 

[agentperry]

Sir! these Indians brains have developed the LCA, ALH etc etc ... Also they have been in aviation industry in the form of missiles Agni series and also space vehicles like PSLV.

One can do post graduation in aeronautical engineering, but very limited undergraduation in aeronautical.

first of all the engineers working on missiles dont work in aeronautics. also those working on helicopters dont get into aircrafts.
the lca has structural limitations and not the technological backwardness. the low AoA and incapable of using the techs available. ALH is not a solo project you must remember dost.

they are still far far away from being called a real aeronautical engineers capable of actually contributing in the project.

moreover knowledge in airborne radar is insufficient with engine and designing completely no-go areas. where they will contribute? only avionics i guess.

 

[SPIEZ]

first of all the engineers working on missiles dont work in aeronautics. also those working on helicopters dont get into aircrafts.
the lca has structural limitations and not the technological backwardness. the low AoA and incapable of using the techs available. ALH is not a solo project you must remember dost.

they are still far far away from being called a real aeronautical engineers capable of actually contributing in the project.

moreover knowledge in airborne radar is insufficient with engine and designing completely no-go areas. where they will contribute? only avionics i guess.

LCA was built from scratch, wasn't it. Who do you think developed it ????

Also engines comes under mechanical engineering, radars under electronics and communication engineering.

moreover, Design of air craft avionics in itself is a separate discipline !

 

[agentperry]

LCA was built from scratch, wasn't it. Who do you think developed it ????

Also engines comes under mechanical engineering, radars under electronics and communication engineering.

moreover, Design of air craft avionics in itself is a separate discipline !

dassault help make every bit of LCA. yes indian designer contributed but yes they rushed to dassault everytime.
i know what all are the domains and fields involved in designing an aircraft. but engine, radar and design--> all are too much for these guys.

 

[SPIEZ]

dassault help make every bit of LCA. yes indian designer contributed but yes they rushed to dassault everytime.
i know what all are the domains and fields involved in designing an aircraft. but engine, radar and design--> all are too much for these guys.

Please get your act together!
Do you know how to build an aircraft ? how to build any part of the aircraft ?As I said engines radars different departments!

Do you know for how long Dasault has been in design and development of aircrafts ? Do you know how long HAL has been in the design and development of aircrafts ?

Can you as a person do even a part of an aircraft ?

 

[agentperry]

Please get your act together!
Do you know how to build an aircraft ? how to build any part of the aircraft ?As I said engines radars different departments!

Do you know for how long Dasault has been in design and development of aircrafts ? Do you know how long HAL has been in the design and development of aircrafts ?

Can you as a person do even a part of an aircraft ?

i cant but those who supposed to do in India, they themselves are incapable to do anything substantial.
mta requires engineers are completely inexperienced when it comes to such big planes. they are still struggling with saras and hansa and not to forget the trainer itself. when they cant deal with such aircrafts then it is very unlikely that they can contribute in any form to this prestigious mta project. this is as per present scenario which is very unfortunate.
mta requires engine of high trust and performance--> no scope of participation.
its requires special mission computers--> nothing to offer.
experience to formulate its manufacturing--> no scope again.
designing the aircraft to sustain the extreme war situations--> hopefully we can contribute in one way or the other but still that will be dwarfed by the russian expertise as former world superpower.
dassault is making aircrafts for long now. but what it has to do with drdo and hal? 3 decades now in the development of tejas and still miles to go for something like rafale and eurofighter. ( not to forget IAF demands a fourth gen plane which EF and rafale are).

indian engineers can somehow contribute in fighter development prog but not in transport aircraft.

 

[pmaitra]

Sir! these Indians brains have developed the LCA, ALH etc etc ... Also they have been in aviation industry in the form of missiles Agni series and also space vehicles like PSLV.

One can do post graduation in aeronautical engineering, but very limited undergraduation in aeronautical.

Russia has been into aviation since the times of Konstantin Tsiolkovsky. Moreover, they have a large number of aviation research institutes and bureaus, such as, TsAGI, MiG, Tupolev, Ilyushin, Myasishchev, Yakovlev, Sukhoi, Beriev, Antonov (now in Ukraine). What do we have? HAL (and NAL if you want to even consider it). Now I don't even want to go into research in turbines and metallurgy. What % of Indians with a Bachelor's degree in engineering get to do hands-on in aerospace?

How many planes have we developed from scratch? LCA? Kurt Tank doesn't count.

Let's be realistic. Indians are doing good in software because we have a strong industrial demand and people choose to study in that field. How many people study aerospace engineering? My neighbour got his Bachelors in Aerospace from IIT-KGP and ended up in a Software MNC.

 

[DMF]

This is typical Russian behaviour, they do the same thing on PAK FA. They expect India to buy it but not gain any development expertise in the project. MTA is going to be an Antonov design anyway so might as well go to Ukraine. But then Ukraine sells tech to Pakistan and China so India should cut all ties with them.

Ukraine almost over on air industry, ship building, and tank building also will fade away. The Russia destroyed and absorb them all

 

[Armand2REP]

Ukraine almost over on air industry, ship building, and tank building also will fade away. The Russia destroyed and absorb them all

You would think so with their being practically zero state support for their arms industry but nations keep buying their obsolete crap.

 

[charlyondfi]

This is typical Russian behaviour, they do the same thing on PAK FA. They expect India to buy it but not gain any development expertise in the project. MTA is going to be an Antonov design anyway so might as well go to Ukraine. But then Ukraine sells tech to Pakistan and China so India should cut all ties with them.

France just sold chopper engine to China... ... how about a total cut of all ties between India & France 8)

 

[Galaxy]

France just sold chopper engine to China... ... how about a total cut of all ties between India & France 8)

Even Russia sold some aircraft engines to China and Israel sold some UAV too.

 

[Kunal Biswas]

We need this bird, Other wise import more C-130J..

 

[sandeepdg]

I hate to say that this is probably because Indian engineers don't have much to contribute other than avionics and communication equipment. Building a small fighter like LCA is one thing and building a transport aircraft is completely different ball game all together.

But, then again, when we are jointly developing this, its essential that our terms of the agreement are adhered to by the other side. This is after all a good opportunity for our engineers to get in the manufacture of large and complex aircraft from scratch. Hence, ironing out the differences between the two sides is the best solution for now.

Involving Ukraine would have been a good idea previously, but now its too late in the day for that. Plus the design is a joint effort of India and Russia, I believe, so I don't think the Russians will allow anyone else to take over the work they have already done on this project.

 

[Galaxy]

I read few days back, we might buy 30 C-130J and 20 C-17 in phased manner till 2015-2016.

This Indo-Russian MTA's is very crucial as 200 odd Antonov An-32, Dornier, Hawker will be decommissioned between 2015-2025. We need strong replacement after 2015.

I hope some solution will emerge after MMS Russian tour. If not, Then we need to Buy more C-130J (US is ready to start production in India if order is more than 10-15 Billion $ i.e. 50-75)

 

[Armand2REP]

If Russia can't get MTA off the ground, the C130J will probably be the new tactical transport of the IAF.

 

[plugwater]

US is ready to start production in India if order is more than 10-15 Billion $ i.e. 50-75

Source ? ????????????

 

[A.V.]

The MTA is coming in 2018 , i dont see why the fuss so early , just jan 2011 it was decided that its coming in 2018 and almost a JV was finalized. then why this negative news suddenly

Russia needs to work on the PR in india they lack these money bag funded news sources.

 

[thakur_ritesh]

The MTA is coming in 2018 , i dont see why the fuss so early , just jan 2011 it was decided that its coming in 2018 and almost a JV was finalized. then why this negative news suddenly

Russia needs to work on the PR in india they lack these money bag funded news sources.

i told you exactly the same thing last year Avi. russia is making a mistake and they need to foot in a decent amount of money in the indian media.

 

[charlyondfi]

We need this bird, Other wise import more C-130J..

Agreed India better stick to C-17 nevertheless, guys. Some of you may have NO idea how ENVIOUS Chinese has been toward India can grab this both strategic & tactic asset: 印購美C-17運輸機 一天就能運送一個師 -- even the unit price is way too high. BTW, make sure you do NOT need to worry for spare parts, as according to the link, 70% of C-17 parts will be brand new inventory to IA... ...

 

[Rahul Singh]

Are Indian engineers good enough to work on this project? If I were the expert and was offered an inexperienced help, I'd rather do it all by myself than train him and expect him to do it well. Aviation is one area where we don't produce enough good engineers and young people don't choose this field because we don't have a booming aviation sector. Hence. I am not surprised this happened. It would be very kind of Russia if they agreed to allow Indian engineers to work under their Russian expert counterparts.

Russian experts don't have much of the choice, either they be generous and share knowledge
or they forget 'Ferrari' they are planing to buy by cashing Indian pay cheque. Its either this way or that way and nothing here is unfair nothing kind, its just mutual benefits. Besides it is other thing that we are not complete idiots in aeronautics and building MTA is not just about 20-30 year old M.Tech in aeronautical engineering. It involves may be entire spectrum of engineering and in some we are genius.

Moreover i don't see your words as real problem. To me Russia wants to bully us and pump all R&D funds to its own labs, institutions and organisations with intention to bring life to its ailing R&D infrastructure, further develop their duel/multi-use present (obsolete as per some) technology targeting Indian market, maximize their share in sale profit of MTA and if i can say so keep India dependent on Russia (evil plan because we are paying hefty for learning) .