MRCA news and dicussions Part III

[bond]

Not the smartest thing by the US when they are bidding for our contracts

From xinhuanet.com

U.S. to provide 14 F-16 jet planes to Pakistan

ISLAMABAD, March 27 (Xinhua) -- The United States has agreed to provide another 14 F-16 jet planes to Pakistan till December this year, Pakistani Air Chief Marshal Rao Qamar Suleman said at a media briefing Saturday.

He said that in June this year, the U.S. authorities would start delivery of planes, adding that America would also provide Beyond Visual Range (BVR) missiles along with the jet planes.

The Pakistan Air Force is capable of thwarting both conventional and unconventional threats from enemy, he said.

The air force chief said that the Pakistan Air Force is focusing on its preparedness and is taking stock of it preparations according to the modern trends.

On March 24, Pakistan and the U.S. held strategic dialogue and the latter wants to improve ties with Pakistan.

It is worth to mention that the news about the provision of F- 16 planes to Pakistan came at the time when India tested two types of short-range ballistic missiles.
Pakistani Prime Minister Syed Yousuf Raza Gilani has repeatedly said that it is the policy of Pakistan to keep minimum deterrence and strategic balance in the region.

 

[Armand2REP]

I don't think France want this deal they seem to be more happy selling to our neighbors: http://sify.com/news/pak-navy-to-ac...-by-india-news-international-kd0mOfcieid.html

I guess they won't buy Eurofighter either since Germany is supplying them too.

 

[LETHALFORCE]

If we start think along these lines there will be no planes to buy

Sweden sold -AWAC eeryie
USA-F-16'S and a lot more
France-Subs
Germany subs
Russia-engines RD-33

who is left to buy from if we eliminate using this criteria??

 

[Zoravar]

http://i866.photobucket.com/albums/ab227/zorvarsingh/233.jpg
Here is the pic,please click on link.

 

[Armand2REP]

If we start think along these lines there will be no planes to buy

Sweden sold -AWAC eeryie
USA-F-16'S and a lot more
France-Subs
Germany subs

who is left to buy from if we eliminate using this criteria??

Russia obviously, India does buy 80% of the imports from them. Their no-export policy to Pakistan must play some part in that advantage.

 

[Solid Beast]

No matter what the choice, they're all more than enough to deter a paper plane also known as FC-20 aka paper dragon.

 

[LETHALFORCE]

Russia obviously, India does buy 80% of the imports from them. Their no-export policy to Pakistan must play some part in that advantage.

Russians have supplied engines via China.

 

[Armand2REP]

No matter what the choice, they're all more than enough to deter a paper plane also known as FC-20 aka paper dragon.

I think India is more worried about F-16 block 50s of PAF carrying 500 AIM-120C5. The US just giving weapons away at no cost to destablise Indian air-superiority must be worrysome to GoI. The F-16 failed in the desert test and SH failed in both desert and mountains. No way America is going to win, but I think SH will make the shortlist so India has a bat to beat the Americans over the head with.

 

[nrj]

Not the smartest thing by the US when they are bidding for our contracts

I believe they've already made their mind that neither F16 nor F18 will be shortlisted so why not help the Pak & stop their long demands on F16 only.....

 

[Solid Beast]

I think India is more worried about F-16 block 50s of PAF carrying 500 AIM-120C5. The US just giving weapons away at no cost to destablise Indian air-superiority must be worrysome to GoI. The F-16 failed in the desert test and SH failed in both desert and mountains. No way America is going to win, but I think SH will make the shortlist so India has a bat to beat the Americans over the head with.

Yes it's a thing to worry about but remember there will be hundreds of upgraded SU30MKI to eventually deal with F-16 threat that still has not fully materialized though it's in the process. I agree that SH will be used as a scathing reminder.

 

[Rage]

I just realised something, with all the talk about the EF Typoon and Super hornet.

and the Tests at Leh ,

WE totally forgot to observe this from the LCA engine standpoint.
No doubt the results of the trials at Leh where both teh GE-414 and EJ-2000 were put to the test, Would have been followed very strongly by the HAL and IAF for thr LCA engine.

We should consider the possibility that one of the engines may have failed, or even both. Putting a wrench in the plans for the LCA-MK2 .

I hope to whatere , that at least the SH of EF, mange t pull of a successful flight

Keen observation. However, I'd like to draw your attention to the fact that Snecma, which bid for and won the DRDO’s joint collaboration project for a possible successor engine to the Tejas MK-II’s Kaveri engine problems, had reportedly offered to mount Indian-made Kaveri engines on its Rafale fighters. With the unseemly demise of the original Kaveri engine as a platform for the Mk1 and the de-linking of the Kaveri project with the Tejas project, but later reports suggesting that the new Kaveri engine being co-developed could still have a chance to power the Tejas Mk-II, Snecma might likely offer the same sort of dual-platform benefit.

 

[gogbot]

Keen observation. However, I'd like to draw your attention to the fact that Snecma, which bid for and won the DRDO’s joint collaboration project for a possible successor engine to the Tejas MK-II’s Kaveri engine problems, had reportedly offered to mount Indian-made Kaveri engines on its Rafale fighters. With the unseemly demise of the original Kaveri engine as a platform for the Mk1 and the de-linking of the Kaveri project with the Tejas project, but later reports suggesting that the new Kaveri engine being co-developed could still have a chance to power the Tejas Mk-II, Snecma might likely offer the same sort of dual-platform benefit.

That's true, and that's why i support the Rafale bid for MMRCA , with full ToT and then offer to Install the Schema/GTRE Kaveri mk-2 engine to replace the Schema engine . It is best bid on the table.

But the Schema/GTRE Kaveri mk-2 engine is at least 4-5 years away.

The LCA MK-2 needs an engine right now. For testing .
If Schema/GTRE Kaveri mk-2 engine can be inducted with out delays , that's the perfect plan, but if this will delay the LCA-mk2 we need something in the interm

 

[nitesh]

I guess they won't buy Eurofighter either since Germany is supplying them too.

No Armand sorry bur it is delayed: http://www.monstersandcritics.com/n...ls_tanks_to_Qatar_delays_on_subs_to_Pakistan_

I am not saying that they will never change there attitude and will not sell but they are at least delaying whereas French attitude is something I am not getting comfortable with.

 

[nitesh]

If we start think along these lines there will be no planes to buy

Sweden sold -AWAC eeryie
USA-F-16'S and a lot more
France-Subs
Germany subs
Russia-engines RD-33

who is left to buy from if we eliminate using this criteria??

LF there is no RD 33 sale to Pakistan there is RD 93 sale which was sold by Chinese to them and afterwards there is no other deal. Russians are the most reliable in these terms Germany has delayed selling subs. US and Swedes which needs to be seen whereas France I don't think they are interested

 

[Armand2REP]

No Armand sorry bur it is delayed: http://www.monstersandcritics.com/n...ls_tanks_to_Qatar_delays_on_subs_to_Pakistan_

Everything is delayed except US welfare weapons. No one in MRCA is going to move a sale before a winner.

I am not saying that they will never change there attitude and will not sell but they are at least delaying whereas French attitude is something I am not getting comfortable with.

As soon as MRCA is decided, they will sell. France won't sign until if Rafale is cut.

 

[Rage]

That's true, and that's why i support the Rafale bid for MMRCA , with full ToT and then offer to Install the Schema/GTRE Kaveri mk-2 engine to replace the Schema engine . It is best bid on the table.

But the Schema/GTRE Kaveri mk-2 engine is at least 4-5 years away.

The LCA MK-2 needs an engine right now. For testing .
If Schema/GTRE Kaveri mk-2 engine can be inducted with out delays , that's the perfect plan, but if this will delay the LCA-mk2 we need something in the interm

Valid concern. The 'timeline' for co-development of the second Kaveri engine is "4-5 years", but as with all Indian projects, that means nothing. Reports that surfaced recently however from IDRW.org suggest that the joint venture is likely to be put to paper during Sarkozy's visit to India in April.

GTRE still considers it plausible that the Kaveri II will eventually power the Tejas Mk-II. That is the stated goal, following the collapse of the ambitious plan to develop a low bypass-ratio, high core-pressure afterburning turbofan with no previous experience. To play it safe in the interim, they've decided to import in-production powerplants: either the GE F-414 or EJ-200 to fly test beds of the Mk-2. However, simultaneous variants of prototype Mk-II's being developed will also be configured to accommodate a Snecma/GTRE co-developed engine of similar general characteristics and specifications as the Kaveri.

 

[nitesh]

As soon as MRCA is decided, they will sell. France won't sign until if Rafale is cut.

So does it means that both France and Germany are not interested in second line of subs? I think GoI is sitting on 2nd line of sub because of MRCA not giving chance to others once MRCA decided the subs will start. What do you think?

 

[Armand2REP]

So does it means that both France and Germany are not interested in second line of subs? I think GoI is sitting on 2nd line of sub because of MRCA not giving chance to others once MRCA decided the subs will start. What do you think?

France already won the second line of subs IMO, it will just be expansion of the Scorpene contract into the upgraded Marlin. It makes zero sense to spend billions more on a different line when it is far cheaper just to expand the current production.

 

[Zoravar]

France already won the second line of subs IMO, it will just be expansion of the Scorpene contract into the upgraded Marlin. It makes zero sense to spend billions more on a different line when it is far cheaper just to expand the current production.

Look at the delays of the scoprene project.


Anyway how far from short list are we?And how do I post a picture to the site,link doesnt look good.

 

[Armand2REP]

Look at the delays of the scoprene project.

What about it? Failure to absorb advance production techniques and pre-price long lead procurement is not France's fault. India will not want to go thrrough that again so they will stick with what they have. Preserving fleet commanality will also save on cost.