Mountain Strike Corps - 17

Ray

The Chairman
Professional
Joined
Apr 17, 2009
Messages
43,132
Likes
23,834
Devinder is a little boy and was an instructor with me in ASMT.

I am well aware of what happened to him!

As also to Surinder who is from my Regt.

Devinder's VHS tapes on his Sectors I have seen!
 

Ray

The Chairman
Professional
Joined
Apr 17, 2009
Messages
43,132
Likes
23,834
Subham

Enjoy yourself with hearsay and media reports.

and your 'contribution' to Kargil, tucked away in the South of India (Southern Comd,right?)

I was there and I have seen it all.

I could say much, but I will refrain since it does no good to man or beast.

I did not comd a Bde, I was a wee bit higher in status than that!
 
Last edited:

shubhamsaikia

Regular Member
Joined
Apr 24, 2012
Messages
354
Likes
158
Well I still believe that an Airborne Division can be our first or last resort in a war.

Not necessarily prior but after maintaining a foothold, we can do airborne operations.

Market Garden was a failure because of the Op. Maps being found by the Germans with one of the soldiers. So all ops were reasonable apprehended andstopped. About Kargil, well you were at helm and incharge so I shall leave it with you to decide.

However as you mention of consolidation and sustenance, that surely can be mastered.
 

W.G.Ewald

Defence Professionals/ DFI member of 2
Professional
Joined
Sep 28, 2011
Messages
14,139
Likes
8,594
Well I still believe that an Airborne Division can be our first or last resort in a war.

Not necessarily prior but after maintaining a foothold, we can do airborne operations.

Market Garden was a failure because of the Op. Maps being found by the Germans with one of the soldiers. So all ops were reasonable apprehended andstopped. About Kargil, well you were at helm and incharge so I shall leave it with you to decide.

However as you mention of consolidation and sustenance, that surely can be mastered.
I just watched again the movie made from Cornelius Ryan's book "A Bridge Too Far" in HD and it is excellent. Was Operation Market-Garden a failure?

Operation Market Garden - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
 

Kunal Biswas

Member of the Year 2011
Ambassador
Joined
May 26, 2010
Messages
31,122
Likes
41,042
Yes they do have.

How will that be used?

Heard about something called a Link up?

Or an Airhead?

Next!
^^This

&

They may resupply by air if there are no alternatives..

PLA 15th division more or like SF division are deign to supplement there own sector in short notice, They cannot be deployed in large numbers Indian side ( Air defense ).
 

lemontree

Professional
Joined
Apr 5, 2009
Messages
815
Likes
647
Why don't we have a need. These Para/Air Qualified troops are going to be the Battle decision makers. In a border to border fight with the Chinese. Deep penetration can only be done through Para Landings.
Deep penetration in not a problem, the link up will be. An air dropped unit has to link up with a ground force within 72 hours or it will run out of ammo and rations. In mountains, linking up with a deep penetraion unit in 72 hrs will need a miracle.

Para's are not using BMPs yet. (they have not been Mechanised) And there are specifically only two Arty Units (9 and 17 Field Arty Regiment) which are para qualified. In case of a Division, The Arty acquirement is that of a a Brigade.
One of the Mech battalions has an airborne company, I dont know if the whole battalion has converted to airborne. My coursemate was commissioned in that battalion.
 

Ray

The Chairman
Professional
Joined
Apr 17, 2009
Messages
43,132
Likes
23,834
I too have the film.

It was, as per some, a bold plan. Possibly, too bold for coordinated planning that it demanded!

Had Operation Market Garden, worked out as planned, it would overcome the last natural barrier to the German hinterland and the Allies would have been in Berlin before the Russians.

At Arnhem, the British 1st Airborne Division encountered far stronger resistance than anticipated. The troops holding one end of the Arnhem bridge could not be relieved and were defeated in detail. The remainder of the Division were trapped in a small pocket on the West of the Bridge. And then the whole operation became a disaster and a total failure.
 

Kunal Biswas

Member of the Year 2011
Ambassador
Joined
May 26, 2010
Messages
31,122
Likes
41,042
And then the whole operation became a disaster and a total failure.
If i am not wrong the ignored Intel about the level of German presence in the area..
 

Ray

The Chairman
Professional
Joined
Apr 17, 2009
Messages
43,132
Likes
23,834
Why don't we have a need. These Para/Air Qualified troops are going to be the Battle decision makers. In a border to border fight with the Chinese. Deep penetration can only be done through Para Landings.
Open a map and check Skardu.

Use this interactive map:

http://maps.live-translator.net/PK/Skardu/satelliteview.php

Now check the mountain ranges and its height and see how long that link up would take place, if indeed it can take place.

If the link up does not take place, how long will the Paratroopers who have done 'deep penetration' last? Will there not be very strong reaction from the Pakistanis?

Let us say air drop of replenishment is contemplated to increase the 'staying power' of the Paratroopers who have 'penetrated deep'.

Will the PAF, which would be active like hornets, allow every IAF aircraft through its airspace? If not, how much will actually go through and in the correct quantity and correct type?

On the problem of fighting in HAA and translating plans, one may check the 1965 War records of the Kargil Sector.
 
Last edited:

pmaitra

Senior Member
Joined
Mar 10, 2009
Messages
33,262
Likes
19,593
Open a map and check Skardu.

Use this interactive map:

Skardu satellite view

Now check the mountain ranges and its height and see how long that link up would take place, if indeed it can take place.

If the link up does not take place, how long will the Paratroopers who have done 'deep penetration' last? Will there not be very strong reaction from the Pakistanis?

Let us say air drop of replenishment is contemplated to increase the 'staying power' of the Paratroopers who have 'penetrated deep'.

Will the PAF, which would be active like hornets, allow every IAF aircraft through its airspace? If not, how much will actually go through and in the correct quantity and correct type?

On the problem of fighting in HAA and translating plans, one may check the 1965 War records of the Kargil Sector.
Ray Sir,

How easy or difficult would it be to take control of Khaplu? Most of the roads leading towards the Siachen Glacier have to pass through Khaplu. If we can take control of Shyok Valley Road, transportation of light armour should not be a big problem.

If we have air-superiority, we can keep any reinforcements stranded at the southern approaches of Skardu, and perhaps take that city over as well.
 

Ray

The Chairman
Professional
Joined
Apr 17, 2009
Messages
43,132
Likes
23,834
That is the problem that keeps Pakistan worried.

Major Chewang Rinchen of the Ladakh Scouts and his troops captured five (Turtuk, Tyakshi, Thang, Pachathang and Chalunka) out of the 14 villages in Baltistan, with a total area of 804 sq km, before the ceasefire was declared on December 17 (1971 War).

The route takes off near the junction of Zero Rt (Gorkha Reach) opposite Village Thang, about 3 kilometres distance from Tyakshi village. It follows the left side of the river Shayok or Shyok and crosses Thang Bridge and thence goes through Drospinthang, from here it goes straight on to Skardu, the capital of Baltistan. The total distance is nearly 200 kilometres almost equivalent to distance from Turtuk to Leh.

The entire route is motorable for 4-wheel drives. It may need some patchwork or widening at certain points along the Line of Control. The route remains open throughout the year. The climate is also less harsh in entire Khapalu Region.

The issue is the capture of the heights alongside and expanding the area sidewise for depth and also penetrating continuously towards the North. It will requires large quantum of troops to task and the spatiotemporal environment should be favourable.

It is possible.
 
Last edited:

Ray

The Chairman
Professional
Joined
Apr 17, 2009
Messages
43,132
Likes
23,834
That is the problem that keeps Pakistan worried.

Major Chewang Rinchen of the Ladakh Scouts and his troops captured five (Turtuk, Tyakshi, Thang, Pachathang and Chalunka) out of the 14 villages in Baltistan, with a total area of 804 sq km, before the ceasefire was declared on December 17 (1971 War).

The route takes off near the junction of Zero Rt (Gorkha Reach) opposite Village Thang, about 3 kilometres distance from Tyakshi village. It follows the left side of the river Shayok and crosses Thang Bridge and thence goes through Drospinthang, from here it goes straight on to Skardu, the capital of Baltistan. The total distance is nearly 200 kilometres almost equivalent to distance from Turtuk to Leh.

The entire route is at motorable for 4-wheel drives. It may need some patchwork or widening at certain points along the Line of Control. The route remains open throughout the year. The climate is also less harsh in entire Khapulu Region.

The issue is the capture of the heights alongside and expanding the area sidewise for depth and also penetrating continuously towards the North. It will requires large quantum of troops to task and the spatiotemporal environment should be favourable.

It is possible.


Regarding tanks, here is the photo of Shyok River (Indian side).

 

Ray

The Chairman
Professional
Joined
Apr 17, 2009
Messages
43,132
Likes
23,834
Armour requires manoeuvre space or else it is a sitting duck!
 

pmaitra

Senior Member
Joined
Mar 10, 2009
Messages
33,262
Likes
19,593
Armour requires manoeuvre space or else it is a sitting duck!
True.

Also, an old Mujahideen tactic against the Soviets: If there is a convoy, just disable the first and the last vehicle, then slowly decimate all that is left in the middle.

We gotta secure the heights first. We will need a lot of manpower, strategic lifters, tactical troop transporters, gunships and air-superiority.
 

asianobserve

Tihar Jail
Banned
Joined
May 5, 2011
Messages
12,846
Likes
8,556
Country flag
Mountain locations are often strategic areas.
 
Last edited:

Latest Replies

Global Defence

New threads

Articles

Top