Most muslims across the world want sharia law---PEW study

[Ray]

I am no supporter of Valentine's Day (a fraud of a holiday)

I am a pragmatist.

I find all these silly 'Days' merely a copy cat Americanisation to pretend we have arrived.

It only helps those who self merchandise and empty the pockets, which can be used for better use for the family.

We have today all sorts of such 'Days'.

Some are totally ridiculous.

It is time to ignore such stupidity, but then if some one wants to lighten their pockets chasing stupidity, I say let them.

Some of the inane Americanism I find, are people ending telephone call with 'I Love you' (you near ones) or 'Take Care'.

In the US, it maybe great because they hardly meet their folks, but in India, the family is close knit and there is no chance of any of the near and dear one not Loving you!

What take care?

It is only a daft idiot who will not take care of himself and be idiotic to go kill himself!

Meaningless bakwas and pretending to 'have arrived'!

 

[Ray]

If you do read my posts I mentioned them






Radicalization happens in waves. I cannot only hypothesize why the current radicalization is taking place.

You must have been on TV debates to give such statement that means nothing but sounds impressive!

No offense meant!

Please give us your views on

Not that I care for these religious fanatics and their stupidity across all religious spectrum, do be good enough to let us know when Hindu, Sikh and Muslim radicalisation took place and why!

Do you think that they all went berserk because they wanted to?

I take it that you are a sociologist and so your views are solicited with all due respect!

 

[Singh]

You must have been on TV debates to give such statement that means nothing but sounds impressive!

I don't waste my time on silly TV debates. I am sorry, I can't offer what you think you want to hear.

 

[Singh]

Please give us your views on

Do you think that they all went berserk because they wanted to?

I take it that you are a sociologist and so your views are solicited with all due respect!

I don't know why you are signalling me out for the past few days, as though I am responsible for all the ills of the society.

Sorry, but I can't offer an explanation that will satisfy what you already believe. By the way, I have never studied sociology formally.

I have already said what I wanted to say. @Daskadas wanted India to be an atheist state, which India imho is already because its Secular.
Second, he has issues with Radical Muslims; Christians and Hindus.

I asked Muslim members to chime in regarding Islamization, @Iamanidiot because he seems to know more about Christians in the South, and imho Hindu Radicalization is directly because of votebank politics and rising radicalization of the minorities.

Why is it happening ? I don't know, although, I suspect you already have a hypothesis regarding this. Why don't you enlighten us ?

 

[Ray]

I don't waste my time on silly TV debates. I am sorry, I can't offer what you think you want to hear.

Well said.

And yet you have not amplified on your statement and hence my question to your rather generalisation..

This country had no radicalisation once there was the partition.

It was the be all and end all of all radical thoughts.

So how come today, every religion has become radicalised.

While Abrahamic religions are entitled by their scriptures to convert, why has the Hindus commenced on reconverting?

I am not too sure on Hinduism, but the little that I know, one has to be a born Hindu and none can be converted.

How come Hinduism is being turned on its head if indeed it is correct that one has to be born a Hindu and cannot become a Hindu by conversion?

 

[MAYURA]

t's not supposed to make any sense. If it did it would no longer be religion.

Just like communism ? an intolerant, atheistic religion with millions of murders to its credit.

 

[Singh]

Well said.

And yet you have not amplified on your statement and hence my question to your rather generalisation..

This country had no radicalisation once there was the partition.

It was the be all and end all of all radical thoughts.

So how come today, every religion has become radicalised.

While Abrahamic religions are entitled by their scriptures to convert, why has the Hindus commenced on reconverting?

I am not too sure on Hinduism, but the little that I know, one has to be a born Hindu and none can be converted.

How come Hinduism is being turned on its head if indeed it is correct that one has to be born a Hindu and cannot become a Hindu by conversion?

At the time of Partition there was radicalization,

Sikhs aligned themselves into Singh Sabha and removed all practices which they considered Brahmanical.
Arya Samaj, RSS are examples of radical Hindu organizations
Ahmedis, Deobandis, and even Sir Syed can be considered radical Islamic movements.
Attacks and movements against Christian Missionaries.
Neo-Buddhism thanks to Ambedkar.

 

[Ray]

I don't know why you are signalling me out for the past few days, as though I am responsible for all the ills of the society.

Sorry, but I can't offer an explanation that will satisfy what you already believe. By the way, I have never studied sociology formally.

I have already said what I wanted to say. @Daskadas wanted India to be an atheist state, which India imho is already because its Secular.
Second, he has issues with Radical Muslims; Christians and Hindus.

I asked Muslim members to chime in regarding Islamization, @Iamanidiot because he seems to know more about Christians in the South, and imho Hindu Radicalization is directly because of votebank politics and rising radicalization of the minorities.

Why is it happening ? I don't know, although, I suspect you already have a hypothesis regarding this. Why don't you enlighten us ?

Mistake me not.

I am not signalling you out for anything.

I am fully aware that you are secular and very balance and don't wear any biases on your sleeve.

I am merely enjoining in debate since, let me be frank, I am confused and very worried that India is becoming silly in radicalised religion and are drifting away from the essence that is India.

I might remind you that I quit places because of the very same reason of people wearing religion on their sleeve.

I am totally irreligious if that suit you all!

Every religion is entitled to exist on equal footing and not given any undue privileges.

That is why I insist be Indian and keep your difference private and at home!

 

[MAYURA]

Hindu Radicalization

It is as good as saying white crow.

there is no thing such as hindu radicalization but an attempt for civilizational resurgence after 1000 years of marusthalasampradaya, shavapujakas and nehruvians.

 

[Ray]

At the time of Partition there was radicalization,

Sikhs aligned themselves into Singh Sabha and removed all practices which they considered Brahmanical.
Arya Samaj, RSS are examples of radical Hindu organizations
Ahmedis, Deobandis, and even Sir Syed can be considered radical Islamic movements.
Attacks and movements against Christian Missionaries.
Neo-Buddhism thanks to Ambedkar.

Revisit history without preconceived opinions.

If what you say that at Partition radicalised, then there would be no Muslims in India or they would have been encouraged by atrocities to leave as they did in Pakistan! Nothing like that happened in India!

After all the massacre and millions displaced of home and heath and practically living on the street, there would have been mayhem

Nothing happened like that!

If what you say is right, then India would have disintegrated.

But it did not!

 

[MAYURA]

theism is defined as no belief in any deity. It tells you what someone is not, not what someone is. Saying somebody is an atheist is the same as saying someone is a "non-astrologer", which is not saying much. Now for Advaita, I don't see anything in the philosophy that makes it a requirement to worship or believe in any "god". Sure there is a single homogenous reality (consciousness) but that by my account is a far cry from saying there is a supernatural being(s) that one must "believe" in. So yes I do consider myself a hardcore atheist and also a follower of Advaita. I don't subscribe to the view that the Vedas are divine or the dogma of karma/purnajanam so that may or may not make a "Hindu" (depending on your definition of that term)

You are too good a philosopher to be handled by a tuchchha person like me.

Asinine suggestion. Stalinism is itself a political religion and derives its inspiration from the "divinely appointed" title of Tsar (who was head of Russian Orthodox Church). The way totalitarianism forbids opposing views, makes information fit its ideology (Lysenkoism), makes false promise of a better life, has a infallible supreme leader, does not tolerate dissidents, etc. is all inspired by religion which throughout history has legitimized the rule of tyrants and despots.

While it is true that communism was a godless abrahamic religion , they took pride in calling themselves atheists.


allama Iqbal had said that islam is communism plus allah.

 

[MAYURA]

If what you say that at Partition radicalised, then there would be no Muslims in India or they would have been encouraged by atrocities to leave as they did in Pakistan! Nothing like that happened in India!

On the contrary, their numbers have increased.

 

[Ray]

@ Singh

All this religious divide and radicalism is totally the vile and foul divisive political schemes for the Vote Bank and milking the historical animosity (if indeed there was).

That is why I asked you as to how radicalisation happened and why.

I am still convinced that if they, the political scoundrels are reined in, there will be no animosity that you see now, that they have some Machiavellian like whipped up to stay in power to enjoy the perks and pelf of office by making us gullible fools!

You are a Sikh and so I ask you.

Would there be a Bhindrenwala, Khalistan issue, terrorism and today's insecurity caused by people not being convicted in the Anti Sikh riot, if there was no big deal of the political fight between Giani Zail Singh and Darbara Singh duly abetted by Mrs I Gandhi?

Tara Singh had organised the Punjabi Subha agiitation, but did it ever get the support of the Sikhs as did Bhindrenwale? Who created Bhindrenwale?

The deep scar that all this created, is still raw and will continue to be black mark on Indian history.

The issue is, who created all this?

The bottom line is that we all are human. We want to live our lives as peaceably as possible. We are religious. But then when religion is brought up as being in danger, then sanity is lost.

Who all ares creating such insanity?

Think it over as to who are!

I am proud first to be an Indian.............., and then comes all the other minor classification that can be showered on me!

 

[natarajan]

I have a doubt what if muslim guy marries a hindu girl ,girl didt convert after marriage.Now what law will applicable to both of them.
Can he give child,get all properties and say talaq and marry another women(thats what sharia says) or girl can use hindu law sorry common law (created by goi)

 

[MAYURA]

Would there be a Bhindrenwala, Khalistan issue, terrorism and today's insecurity caused by people not being convicted in the Anti Sikh riot, if there was no big deal of the political fight between Giani Zail Singh and Darbara Singh duly abetted by Mrs I Gandhi?

Tara Singh had organised the Punjabi Subha agiitation, but did it ever get the support of the Sikhs as did Bhindrenwale? Who created Bhindrenwale?

Can not say but Indira Gandhi just used the already radicalised sikhism which since the times of 1905 was a fanatical version.

you are not aware of sikh myths like harimandir's foundation by mian pir etc.

sikhs were already radicalised and it was just adding ghee into fire by Indira Gandhi.

 

[Singh]

Revisit history without preconceived opinions.

If what you say that at Partition radicalised, then there would be no Muslims in India or they would have been encouraged by atrocities to leave as they did in Pakistan! Nothing like that happened in India!


After all the massacre and millions displaced of home and heath and practically living on the street, there would have been mayhem

I think you are misconstruing radicalization.

There was radicalization prior to Partition as I have given example of.

Partition also radicalized people; the massacre of muslims, hindus and sikhs at the borders is ample proof.

Perhaps if the State itself were involved in culling muslims, as in the case of Pakistan and non muslims, India would've been devoid of Muslims.

Nothing happened like that!

If what you say is right, then India would have disintegrated.

But it did not!

Your assertion that radicalization would've disintegrated India, is false. Radicalization did happen, and India did endure. Hence it doesn't follow.

 

[Singh]

@ Singh

All this religious divide and radicalism is totally the vile and foul divisive political schemes for the Vote Bank and milking the historical animosity (if indeed there was).

That is why I asked you as to how radicalisation happened and why.

The main reasons for radicalization go down to things like loss-aversion, cultural pride, over compensatory reaction, tit for tat response, desire to influence, brainwashing? etc.

I am still convinced that if they, the political scoundrels are reined in, there will be no animosity that you see now, that they have some Machiavellian like whipped up to stay in power to enjoy the perks and pelf of office by making us gullible fools!

I have to agree. Education, and Liberalism will also push the country forward.

You are a Sikh and so I ask you.

Would there be a Bhindrenwala, Khalistan issue, terrorism and today's insecurity caused by people not being convicted in the Anti Sikh riot, if there was no big deal of the political fight between Giani Zail Singh and Darbara Singh duly abetted by Mrs I Gandhi?

Tara Singh had organised the Punjabi Subha agiitation, but did it ever get the support of the Sikhs as did Bhindrenwale? Who created Bhindrenwale?

The deep scar that all this created, is still raw and will continue to be black mark on Indian history.

The issue is, who created all this?

Politicians.

The bottom line is that we all are human. We want to live our lives as peaceably as possible. We are religious. But then when religion is brought up as being in danger, then sanity is lost.

Who all ares creating such insanity?

Think it over as to who are!

I am proud first to be an Indian.............., and then comes all the other minor classification that can be showered on me!

This is a hallmark of Indian democracy, people form interest groups, and then try to influence using their numbers. OBCs, Hindus, Muslims, Leftists etc.
You cannot stop that, what can be done is to inculcate a sense of respect, and liberalism in people. This is a very simplistic solution.

 

[Ray]

The main reasons for radicalization go down to things like loss-aversion, cultural pride, over compensatory reaction, tit for tat response, desire to influence, brainwashing? etc.

And who is responsible for that and who encouraged it for their own selfish gains?

The people of India or who thought they are the legatees of the British to rule and follow the British policy of 'Divide and Rule'?

Even after Partition, there were many Muslims in India. Anything reprisal took place after post Partition

This is a hallmark of Indian democracy, people form interest groups, and then try to influence using their numbers. OBCs, Hindus, Muslims, Leftists etc.
You cannot stop that, what can be done is to inculcate a sense of respect, and liberalism in people. This is a very simplistic solution.

I regret to use Musharraf's words - it is a sham democracy. It is a democracy with a heavy dose of cover feudalistic mindset!.

 

[Singh]

And who is responsible for that and who encouraged it for their own selfish gains?

The people of India or who thought they are the legatees of the British to rule and follow the British policy of 'Divide and Rule'?

Even after Partition, there were many Muslims in India. Anything reprisal took place after post Partition

Each individual is responsible for his own actions ultimately.

I regret to use Musharraf's words - it is a sham democracy. It is a democracy with a heavy dose of cover feudalistic mindset!.

Nothing wrong with having interest groups, all democracies have them. Its how you regulate them, that matters.
When you have regional, caste, religious parties in the national parliament, and they are winning 60% of the votes and seats, then issues crop up.

 

[Ray]

Each individual is responsible for his own actions ultimately.

Singh, you are right.

But then when you have sheep, what can one do?

Look at our governance all India!

Nothing wrong with having interest groups, all democracies have them. Its how you regulate them, that matters.
When you have regional, caste, religious parties in the national parliament, and they are winning 60% of the votes and seats, then issues crop up.

Tuwade much te gion shakkar.

This is exactly what I am fighting - regional, caste, religious divide and competitive ascendancy with subterfuge and muscle power and blackmail - all religions!

I may not possess succinctness as many and so I am being not understood, but that is all I stand for as I have seen through my childhood and adulthood as dear to me. Maybe my grooming was out of synch with India as of today where everyone wants to be supreme and others be damned!

I say - Be proud of what you are, but never forget that if we divide India on these issues, there are many around the world to take us over even if we feel we still are the one who dictate our Fate and own our Soul!

It is just what I am saying - Indian politics is only regional, caste, religious divide and competitive ascendancy with subterfuge and muscle power and blackmail

It cannot go unless we educate the masses!

But then, which political party would dare to do that?

An idiot and an illiterate is easy to mould like plasticine.

But not a rock!