Moscow-Islamabad partnership not against Delhi

[pmaitra]

@Neil, your quotes are messed up, but I get your point. Point taken.

 

[Blackwater]

Pakistan, Russia sign defence co-operation agreement, discuss helo sales

Farhan Bokhari, Islamabad and Nikolai Novichkov, Moscow - IHS Jane's Defence Industry
25 November 2014

Russia and Pakistan signed an ambitious agreement to expand defence and military ties on 20 November, setting in motion a new era of co-operation between the two former Cold War foes.

The agreement followed the recent confirmation by Pakistani officials to IHS Jane's that the two countries had agreed on the sale of up to 20 Mil Mi-35 attack helicopters to Islamabad. If concluded the helicopter deal would be the biggest military sale by Russia to Pakistan.

A military diplomatic source in Moscow told IHS Jane's that Pakistan is also interested in buying a batch of Mi-28NE 'Havoc' attack helicopters and that a Russian delegation is preparing to present data on the Mi-28NE as well as the Pantsir-S1 (SA-22), Tor-M2KM (SA-15), and Buk-M2 (SA-17) surface-to-air missile systems to Pakistani officials at the forthcoming International Defence Exhibition and Seminar (IDEAS) 2014 in Karachi.


Pakistan, Russia sign defence co-operation agreement, discuss helo sales - IHS Jane's 360

its a russian lollipop which u have taken nothing significant about it.

mi-35 same heli which u have short down by stinger in afghan jihad. and pls dont say its a sale,its saudi money goes to russia for 30 yrs old junk

 

[Neil]

@Neil, your quotes are messed up, but I get your point. Point taken.

yes sir.. edited. My bad..had internet connectivity issues.

 

[sgarg]

Sir.. Russia has been supplying to India's enemy- China. Also Russian has supplied pakistan with Mi17 IL76 and JF 17 engine in the past. So it not like India is diversifying its inventory and Russia is not. Also if u look at our procurement even today Russia still is most favored when it comes to offensive weapons used by India. Look at our US procurement and most of them has been in surveillance and defencive capability bearing few.

India has made many efforts to co-opt China. So your description of "arch-enemy" for China is not a correct description.

I would say that India has differences and disputes with China. Most countries have such problems with neighbours.

India must use its influence where there is a chance of success. India cannot direct the foreign policy of either Russia or USA.

There is a very good reason India is in BRICS platform in which Russia and China are key partners.

India realises that it has to build relations with major Asian countries in a mutually beneficial manner. Russia is practically an Asian country as it occupies major Asian landmass.

 

[sgarg]

Japanese companies are present in both Indian and Pakistani markets. Should we censure Japanese companies for that.

The strange hyper reactions of some posters here about a small military relationship between Russia and Pakistan is very surprising and very troubling.

Please focus on what India gets from the relationship. Forget about others.

Pettiness does not help. The greatness comes from achievement, not running down others.

 

[pmaitra]

@sgarg, good point.

Toyota pick-ups were the symbol of the Taliban, prior to which, the Afghan Mujahideen (same thing essentially), all paid for by CIA.

 

[Blackwater]

Sir no equivalent on Russian side. The reason we went for FMS route was simply because there were no capable plane or didnt match the kind of capability C17/C130 gave
eg:




Sir.. Russia has been supplying to India's enemy- China. Also Russian has supplied pakistan with Mi17 IL76 and JF 17 engine in the past. So it not like India is diversifying its inventory and Russia is not. Also if u look at our procurement even today Russia still is most favored when it comes to offensive weapons used by India. Look at our US procurement and most of them has been in surveillance and defencive capability bearing few.



absolutely sir.. i hope with the new govt in place and make in India pitch getting louder we will pump money into L&T and TATA



well sir.. i sure hope that India will stand up and counter US hegemony. Rest agreed.

Russia has not supplied it was Ukraine

 

[DingDong]

Japanese companies are present in both Indian and Pakistani markets. Should we censure Japanese companies for that.

The strange hyper reactions of some posters here about a small military relationship between Russia and Pakistan is very surprising and very troubling.

Please focus on what India gets from the relationship. Forget about others.

Pettiness does not help. The greatness comes from achievement, not running down others.

South Asia is India's area of influence and any foreign power putting it's nose in the South Asian mess must be unwelcome. Will Russia appreciate us building close ties with the ex-Soviet Republics? Answer is NO? Russia has crossed the red line.

 

[Razor]

South Asia is India's area of influence and any foreign power putting it's nose in the South Asian mess must be unwelcome. Will Russia appreciate us building close ties with the ex-Soviet Republics? Answer is NO? Russia has crossed the red line.

India operates Farkor military base in Tajikistan.

Russia is sensing the movement of India to the US and West, and it's own gravitation to China. It will take effort to keep Russia-India relations at levels from earlier times. And it is in the interest of both parties to keep the relations good, more so for Russia.

 

[DingDong]

India operates Farkor military base in Tajikistan.

Russia is sensing the movement of India to the US and West, and it's own gravitation to China. It will take effort to keep Russia-India relations at levels from earlier times. And it is in the interest of both parties to keep the relations good, more so for Russia.

India's Ayni military base in Tajikistan is Russia-locked

Moscow has been unrelenting in its stand that it doesn't want foreign powers to deploy fighter aircraft in its backyard and a former territory.

It is in India's interest to diversify her basket and seek good relation with countries that matter. India must categorically tell that any Russian venture in South Asia which harms our interest will push the Indo-Russian relation downhill even further.

 

[brational]

@sgarg, good point.

Toyota pick-ups were the symbol of the Taliban, prior to which, the Afghan Mujahideen (same thing essentially), all paid for by CIA.

Sir, IMO anything that goes to Pakistan is a cause of concern. Toyota is a vey small thing, just imagine what will happen if they start arming the mujahideen with nukes and send them to India. Parvez Musha already declared that Taliban is their reserve against India.

Regarding that attack helo deal, it is obvious that Pakistan will not use them for ferrying medical supplies during war.

 

[sgarg]

@DingDong, Certain things take time. As I said on many occasions, it takes two hands to clap. We are no longer in Soviet times. Now our projects are based on mutual benefit.

It is unlikely that Russia will go all out for India in any eventuality. The vice-versa is also true. So we have a quite level-headed relationship.

Ayni is not such a big issue as this article makes. India is far away from joining the big-power game.

 

[Razor]

India's Ayni military base in Tajikistan is Russia-locked



It is in India's interest to diversify her basket and seek good relation with countries that matter. India must categorically tell that any Russian venture in South Asia which harms our interest will push the Indo-Russian relation downhill even further.

Of course it is in india's interest. Similarly at a time when India is strengthening links to Russia's enemies, Russia is saying that 2 can play at that game.
------
I was not talking about Ayni base, I was talking about Farkor Air base in tajikistan.

India also runs an air base at Farkhor in Tajikistan on Afghanistan's northeastern border — a facility it secured with Russian support.

India, Pakistan and the Battle for Afghanistan - TIME

And afaik India does have fighter aircraft stationed there.

The Farkhor Air Base would give the Indian military the required depth and range in seeking a larger role in the Indian Subcontinent and is a tangible manifestation of India's move to project its power in Central Asia, a policy goal formally enunciated in 2003–2004.

The potential implications of this base go far beyond the Indo-Pakistani rivalry on the subcontinent. Pakistan fears being encircled by India with the base in Farkhor operational.[9] Former Pakistan President Pervez Musharraf raised concerns to the Tajik government of the fact that Indian planes would be able reach Pakistan within minutes using the air base.

 

[sgarg]

Sir, IMO anything that goes to Pakistan is a cause of concern. Toyota is a vey small thing, just imagine what will happen if they start arming the mujahideen with nukes and send them to India. Parvez Musha already declared that Taliban is their reserve against India.

Regarding that attack helo deal, it is obvious that Pakistan will not use them for ferrying medical supplies during war.

And you think JF-17 engine or Mil-35 makes any difference to that strategy!

Pakistan can use anybody, even a stray goat to send a nuke into India. But it knows very well what will be the return ticket.

If you really want to stop Pakistan's supplies, you need to start with Uncle. The best weapons in Pakistan's inventory is from Uncle. Go fight there.

 

[pmaitra]

Sir, IMO anything that goes to Pakistan is a cause of concern. Toyota is a vey small thing, just imagine what will happen if they start arming the mujahideen with nukes and send them to India. Parvez Musha already declared that Taliban is their reserve against India.

Regarding that attack helo deal, it is obvious that Pakistan will not use them for ferrying medical supplies during war.

At one point, CIA bought all the Toyota dealerships in Pakistan - all the dealerships, not just the cars, and all pick-ups were sent to the Mujahideen. It is not just the vehicle, but the sheer volume.

Pakistan will not transfer nukes to Taliban. They are not that stupid. The fear is Taliban successfully managing to steal one out, or Taliban defeating Pakistan's stores and taking control of fissile material.

 

[Zebra]

C-17, C-130J.

In international relations, it is never one sided. Yes, with the USSR it was, with India gaining much more from the USSR, than the other way around. Not any more.

If India can ignore Russia's concerns and buy from Russia's enemy, then Russia can ignore India's concerns and sell to India's enemy. We can draw as many red-lines as we want.

Sir, if Russia really wants to ignore India then that's fine. They are free and we are free also.

More good news for this country. I must say that.

We either pump money into SevMash (Gorshkov), or we pump money into Boeing (C-17). We always pump money. What are the long term gains?

That is what "Make in India" is for. Come in India, invest together in JVs and we both will get benefits.

It is in India's interest to have a multi-polar world. With the US going around the world bullying every country, India needs to support the only one who can challenge the bully. If Russia disintegrated tomorrow, I give this so called "friend" US no more than 12 months before it will begin to bully India. PRC will not challenge the US, because its economy is closely tied with the US economy. I don't wish to see India becoming a playground for control between the US and PRC.

That is your point of view.

What you are saying is stay with anti US lobby, get your a$$ kicked every now and then and complaint against US, that they are no good. Yeah?

Nah, too much crap in it. And that is how Nehru dynasty has created mess for India.

Don't repeat that idiot thing again in India.

Better stay with US, get benefits for our countrymen. Get better, comfortable, favourable situation for our country. It will help.

And being a Russian supporter, you can tell us better about Russia that, it will get disintegrated or not.

But one thing is sure, US never touched their own allies and US never left opponent's allies untouched either.

[Side note to @Casper: Instead of going around and talking about India's interest, please get an understanding of the big picture, if you truly care about India.]

Please see the quote below. If we don't learn from our past, we are bound to suffer like we have suffered in the past.

Sir, I care damn about that multipolar world, if it can't provide enough electricity or even proper drinking water to our countrymen.

And to hell with that multipolar world, if our countrymen get killed by enemy country in side our own borders that also in no-war time.

First fix these then we will talk everything later.

 

[Neil]

India has made many efforts to co-opt China. So your description of "arch-enemy" for China is not a correct description.

I would say that India has differences and disputes with China. Most countries have such problems with neighbours.

India must use its influence where there is a chance of success. India cannot direct the foreign policy of either Russia or USA.

There is a very good reason India is in BRICS platform in which Russia and China are key partners.

India realises that it has to build relations with major Asian countries in a mutually beneficial manner. Russia is practically an Asian country as it occupies major Asian landmass.

Agreed. Bit we are not really on good terms as well.. Just for the record even a chinese sub docking in SL raised security concern et all. So we might not be arch but are certainly rivals.

Russia has not supplied it was Ukraine

nah.. Su27 SU30 S300/400 to name a few are Russian origin and built.

 

[Blackwater]

Agreed. Bit we are not really on good terms as well.. Just for the record even a chinese sub docking in SL raised security concern et all. So we might not be arch but are certainly rivals.




nah.. Su27 SU30 S300/400 to name a few are Russian origin and built.

iam talking about IL76 and mi-17 supplied to pak

 

[pmaitra]

What you are saying is stay with anti US lobby, get your a$$ kicked every now and then and complaint against US, that they are no good. Yeah?

I am saying what I am saying. Read it again.

Looks like you are more interested in who is anti-US, and least interested in who is anti-India (or potentially anti-India).

Think about India's interests for a change.

Regarding your obsession with the posterior, I am in favour of safeguarding India from that one who likes to kick India in the posterior (US), instead of kissing its posterior. We may disagree.

Sir, I care damn about that multipolar world, if it can't provide enough electricity or even proper drinking water to our countrymen.

I care. I don't want East India Company version 2.

P.S.: We are talking about a multi-polar world, not about building electricity power plants.

 

[brational]

And you think JF-17 engine or Mil-35 makes any difference to that strategy!

Pakistan can use anybody, even a stray goat to send a nuke into India. But it knows very well what will be the return ticket.

If you really want to stop Pakistan's supplies, you need to start with Uncle. The best weapons in Pakistan's inventory is from Uncle. Go fight there.

Okey, India should not be concerned with anything that happen in Pakistan. If India need to settle any dispute, she must sit with Uncle and sort out the differences.