Modi's test: WTO threatens India's food security

pmaitra

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Modi's test: WTO threatens India's food security

SYDNEY: The world's top economies on Saturday pushed India on the scheduled rollout of trade facilitation agreement (TFA) later this month, while merely assuring that its concerns over food subsidy would be addressed.
After a meeting of the G20 trade ministers, Australia minister for trade and investment Andrew Robb said all the countries, including India, re-committed themselves to the Bali package and there was "no dissent on the significance of TFA and the timelines".

The categorical statement from the host country came in the backdrop of India's strong push that trade agreement and the issue of food security be decided side by side, betraying New Delhi's concerns that its 'aye' on TFA now may leave it without a 'bargaining chip' when food subsidies are decided during the coming three years.
Source: India stands alone at WTO talks - The Times of India

India has a set up plan to guarantee food security to its citizens. Why should this at all be on the negotiating table?

  • India should not relent. Negotiating India's food security would have adverse effects.
  • India could face famines, and thousands could die.
  • Indian food prices affect inflation. Unbridled inflation could cause massive unrest all over the country.
  • India is being arm-twisted into making concessions for countries whose agricultural products are non-competitive.
  • India's food shortage would put it at the mercy of other countries, and thus influence its foreign policy.

Will Narendra Modi bend? Or will he prove to be a man of steel? If required, should India walk out of WTO, and G-20?
 

right wing

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nothing of that sort will happen..insted we will be able tobuy more easily and sell better...most developing countries r supporting it for a reason...free trade will end stupid govt spend on food subsidy..lower hoarder control...improve farmers capacity to produce export oriented crop...increase yield..etc...useless fear mongering by nehruvian babus of raisina hill...
 

Srinivas_K

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1)50% Indian population dependent on Agriculture sector means 60cr
Ind giving fertilizers/food grains/Mkt price...........SUBSIDIES for these farmers&poor

2) Free trade with China/some developed countries means dump their food items in India ex:Rice kg 30/- they give 15/-rs then who buys for 30/-.If they lost their income 60 cr farmers (uneducated) come to CITIES as a DAILY LABOR can u provide 60 cr Jobs :laugh:

3)How can u expect our uneducated,non tech farmers fight with China/some developed countries

On Topic:Nothing will happen 'coz 80% Countries are poor they stand with India in Voting so just chill
India also provides same subsides as some advanced countries, in Andhra Pradesh Govt. has just taken a decision to waive off the loans worth 35000 crore rupees.
Every year GOI spends lakhs of crores only on subsides.

In Agriculture India and China are neck to neck when it comes to producing rice, wheat etc ..... etc.....

Mean while you can wow at China for no reason ...... :yey:
 
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Srinivas_K

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here Im not TALKING abt PRODUCTION ,but PRICE of PRODUCING food grains
Just check how many quintals of food grains per acre in China vs India,how many work per acre,Total agri dependent etc


who denied subsidies i clearly said..................Ind giving fertilizers/food grains/Mkt price etc SUBSIDIES for these farmers&poor

2)why i don't care abt DEVELOPED COUNTRIES in this matter is in US/Uk/E.U hardly 1-2% farmers their contribution for GDP is below 6% so these things didn't matter them but China with huge Agri land still developing country it dumps food grains in India
Those dumping days will be over soon ..... India is a food surplus country except onions , tomatoes some times.

Basic agri products are not imported but are produced here.

Chinese rice is different from our rice ..... Chinese eat sticky rice.

Rice Exports From India Climbing to Record on Mideast Demand - Bloomberg

China is looking to expand its agricultural productivity so as India.

There is going to be an organic farming revolution in the coming years in India.




http://irri.org/rice-today/game-changers-in-the-global-rice-market

http://in.reuters.com/article/2014/02/24/india-grains-idINL3N0LT29H20140224

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/...est-importer-of-rice/articleshow/20063087.cms

Quality wise India needs to learn from Japan which produces some quality agri products. These guys are amazing in farming and fisheries. The care they take while producing apples, yam and fish farming is appreciable.

Dumping duties on Foreign goods will be increased to increase the domestic manufacturing and also reduce trade imbalance.

1 kilo rice in china is 8 rmb = 80 rs (approx)
 
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right wing

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here Im not TALKING abt PRODUCTION ,but PRICE of PRODUCING food grains
Just check how many quintals of food grains per acre in China vs India,how many work per acre,Total agri dependent etc


who denied subsidies i clearly said..................Ind giving fertilizers/food grains/Mkt price etc SUBSIDIES for these farmers&poor

2)why i don't care abt DEVELOPED COUNTRIES in this matter is in US/Uk/E.U hardly 1-2% farmers their contribution for GDP is below 6% so these things didn't matter them but China with huge Agri land still developing country it dumps food grains in India
... u are totally missing the 1 lac crore subsidy and 65000 crore fertilizer subsidy we have earmarked fr food security...that entire sum frees up...if food costs become competitive..this entire money can be used directly for revolutionising agriculture...plus lower food prices,lower inflation,lower int loans for farmers n middle class alike..only hoarders and middle men need to fear....and our huge food wastage can suitably diverted to export...thus helping farmers..further incentivising modern agriculure
 

Srinivas_K

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U didn't get me I know FREE TRADE make food grains cheap (like i said Rice for 15/-) In today's competitive world only best can survive,why u ignoring KEY POINT 60CR AGRI LABOR (un educated farmers) INVADE our CITIES

Piratically Indian cities are world FAMOUS for SLUMS can u make it another 60cr

p.s I didn't love agri/farmers but i simply want they must educate and live there else like UP/BIHARI in Mumbai every state some kind of SHIVA SENA party will rise.By default every yr 1-2% Rural ppl MIGRATING to Urban (Inevitable) but don't make it 6%+ our cities don't make it then Crime will increase,Mafia,Human trafficking,More slums and so on
Answer is Smart cities that will be created all along the industrial corridors.

Job creation is different than food security ..... India provides enough opportunities for every one. There will be jobs in infrastructure, Manufacturing etc...etc.....

The infrastructure programs alone will generate crores of jobs.
 

jackprince

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U didn't get me I know FREE TRADE make food grains cheap (like i said Rice for 15/-) In today's competitive world only best can survive,why u ignoring KEY POINT 60CR AGRI LABOR (un educated farmers) INVADE our CITIES

Piratically Indian cities are world FAMOUS for SLUMS can u make it another 60cr

p.s I didn't love agri/farmers but i simply want they must educate and live there else like UP/BIHARI in Mumbai every state some kind of SHIVA SENA party will rise.By default every yr 1-2% Rural ppl MIGRATING to Urban (Inevitable) but don't make it 6%+ our cities don't make it then Crime will increase,Mafia,Human trafficking,More slums and so on
You are pathetic. Not only your inability to form a single sentence properly. May be inability speak properly is a fashion statement these days? Huh? And showing contempt to the poverty of rural people? I hope that is not a teaching of your family tradition.

I would like to say 'Grow up'. But this single post says that the attitude you bear, you are just not a person who can even understand what growing up means. You so sound like the brats shown in Hollywood movies. Is it the next modern educated urban next-generation is? So aloof of their own nation and its people. So comfy in their urban life that the real life blood of this nation - the rural india - is forgotten. No wonder the so called India vs. bharat conflicts raise head more often this days.

I just wonder at the ignorance of some of the members of this forum of the real poverty that is rampant in rural areas. When the Food Security Bill in its entirety cannot be supported, there are places in India where such schemes can save lives - where if people cannot buy food in its 'competitive' price. I may be called an socialist or communist - but the facts just won't go away.
 

Srinivas_K

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So u ACCOMMODATE 60 CR UN EDUCATED LABOR in Smart cities that will be created all along the industrial corridors, infrastructure,

Manufacturing etc...etc.....
:lol::lol::lol:
For your info. I have no idea how you arrived at 60 crore number.

Even todays farmer kids are preferring employment to farming. If you go to villages and observe most of the farmers are giving their farming lands to people who are farming specialists and in return taking some money and grain.

Farmers are reducing at the same time large scale specialized farmers are increasing.


I am talking about the people who are going to support Industrial corridor and who are expected to migrate, for them smart cities are the solution.

As per census India has 497 million (50 crores) labour force , agriculture labour force is less than that figure.

Labour in India - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Agriculture, dairy, horticulture and related occupations alone employ 52 percent of labour in India. i.e close to 25 crores.

The other 25 crores are employed in "unorganised enterprises ranging from pushcart vendors to home-based diamond and gem polishing operations.[2][3] The organised sector includes workers employed by the government, state-owned enterprises and private sector enterprises. In 2008, the organised sector employed 27.5 million workers, of which 17.3 million worked for government or government owned entities.[4]"
 
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Samar Rathi

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WORLD BANK.................. Employment in agriculture (% of total employment) latest 2012 47% means 1.25 nearly 60cr

Employment in agriculture (% of total employment) | Data | Table



i b4 said..........By default every yr 1-2% Rural ppl MIGRATING to Urban (Inevitable) but don't make it 6%+
Why the hell not ?

India tere baap ka hai?

I seen enough of your spoiled child attitude in this thread and by default India is for Indians and it doesn't matter if they belong to rural part or Urban cities.

Those rural kid help their parents in field and then home while you spoiled brats play video games and watch TV sitting in your comfy sits so don't tell me who belongs to city or who doesn't.
 

Srinivas_K

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WORLD BANK.................. Employment in agriculture (% of total employment) latest 2012 47% means 1.25 nearly 60cr

Employment in agriculture (% of total employment) | Data | Table
According to wiki and the labour report, total available labour in India is 470 million odd, and 50 % of this figure is Agri Labour.

i b4 said..........By default every yr 1-2% Rural ppl MIGRATING to Urban (Inevitable) but don't make it 6%+
Read my above post regarding Smart Cities.
 

right wing

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guys stop fighting and consider a few points...
1.india is already the largest producer of most food grains and fruits and vegetables...so people who are fearing dumping are unnecessarily being apprehensive...
2.the food quality grown in a particular country is attuned to taste habits of the people...even if chinese give us rice...people wont like it..
just as american wheat didnt cut much ice here back in 60s when we tried to import it.
3.obviously per acre yield in most countries are higher...but to simple state their cost of food production is low...is fallacy..
because input per yield is also far lower in india...and due to highly fertile lands..and cheaper labour..our farms produce well as compared to investment we make...on a general basis..now dont point out specific incidences of farmer suicides..because they are more to do with farm loan woes..and unscientific utilisation of that money...actually even our banks are on the verge of suicide in those states due to farmers simply not returning money..
4.indian farm labour stands at 15 to 20 crores..and most of them are not farm labours alone....they do work in many organised sectors..like in brick kilns,fishing...construction...so most labourers are migrant workers who work for 4 months in fields and then switch to other jobs or to cities and again go back during harvest months...
to think that they are uneducated and unsuitable for jobs is biggest mistake..infact u find them everywhere..right from building projects to irrigation canal works,fishing ,bund making..
if this casual labour is drawn from agriculture and properly given a month training...they can fulfill labour shortages plagueing our infra projects..but in order to do that u need money..and that money frees up if u do not spend on farm waivers and food subsidy..harcly a fraction of it can be used to train this labour force..which is already quite skilled in doing multi faceted jobs..
5.farmers in turn can be provided cheap elec,more training fetilizers,elec with that huge 1 lac crore set aside for food subsidy..thus increasing yield while lowering labour population...more prosperous villages...means more construction boom in small towns and big villages...eventually decongestion of big cities...so the fear of being mobbed in cities should be taken as an oppurtunity to build infra in small towns...
this can only happen if farmer is holding bigger tracts of land and using modern methods..and more importantly exporting his food produce...rather than giving it to hoarders...
6.the largest hoarder in the world ie.fci and othef hoarders will be out of business..cause if u try and sell onions at 80,no one will buy from u...question is will they die out...they to employ 5 crore people..answer is most likely no....they will become organised and start dealing in cold chains and stream line transportation mechanism for export..
7.international competition often doesnt kill...especially at this mature stage when india itself is a agri giant...it will only make us more competitive...and the govt can always impose duties if and when need arises..that freedom is given to govts in the pact...albeit to what extent is indian point of negotiation..dont worry even usa wants that right for its farmers..if indeed we do away with duties..it is the west which will suffer..we will flood them and not them flooding us..
8...lowered inflation will stimulate spending across all sections...and combined with cheap oil to be available from 2016..as usa has given permission for oil export from that date..brent going below 90 is not impossible..
9.so it is an oppurtunity..to revive our agri and retail segment...and ordinarily it wouldng hav happened this quick...but owing to global pressure if this subsidy redirection occurs...it will be a paradigm shift....
10. lastly..expect the govt. to negotiate toughly because wto is a consensus body...so overall indian concerns of food procurement by govt for drought or floods,in advance will be looked after,,,but what fci does now is mindless hoarding..then crop either gets siphoned off or wasted..so fci itself has an oppurtunity to improve..and if it does we can do with far lower emergency stocks..
 

Samar Rathi

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R u drunk i said pyscho mod deleted it
and i think India tera baap ka hai slum do*:pound:
They come citites and LIVE IN SLUMS yeah u r happy people live IN CITIES ALMOST 30% PEOPLE LIVE IN SLUM DOGS IN CITIES be happy
yeah go on live HAPPY LIFE IN CITY SLUMS


17% of urban India lives in slums: Census
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/i...w/19118219.cms

54% of Mumbai lives in slums: World Bank
http://infochangeindia.org/poverty/n...orld-bank.html
Do you really believe if they had another choice they would not have chosen it?

Your filthy attitude towards slum people just shows the essential point of your psyche and if you don't like them then do something for them ,i am sure they can do more hard work than you ever did in your spoiled life.
 

Srinivas_K

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Leave WIKI plz many reports show 50% plus

Boss still with SMART CITIES how can u expect those uneducated labor live in SMART CITIES :pound:

They come cities & only live in SLUMS

p.s i think u getting data in absolute numbers labor may be 470 mn what abt his(dependents) old age parents/wife &kids........include these numbers
Smart cities are built for the purpose of accommodating migrating workforce and all .... read about smart city concept.
 

Free Karma

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India willing to stall WTO deal to ensure food security for all - Hindustan Times

India will not support the World Trade Organisation's (WTO's) "trade facilitation agreement" (TFA) if the deal doesn't come bundled with a permanent solution that will allow unhindered roll-out of welfare schemes such as the food security programme.

As first reported by HT on July 21, India has firmed up its position for the forthcoming WTO talks that food security and state-funded welfare schemes were non-negotiable.

In a position finalised by the government ahead of the WTO's General Council meeting in Geneva on Thursday, India has worked out a hard bargain strategy for drawing up a permanent solution on food subsidies.

"India will propose to take the stand at the WTO that the TFA should be implemented only as a part of a single undertaking including a permanent solution on food security," a top government source told HT.

The government will seek a postponement of the of the TFA, which seeks to speed up procedures and make trade easier and cheaper across nations, to December 31, 2014.

At the Bali Ministerial in December last year, the WTO member countries had agreed to make trade easier, faster and cheaper by making systems transparent and reducing red tape by agreeing to adopt the TFA from July 31.

New Delhi is of the view that without a permanent solution on food subsidies, India's public stockholding programmes such a buffer stock of foodgrains will be hampered by the present ceiling on subsidy to farmers.

Existing rules cap the value of food subsidies at 10% of the value of production. But the way the support is calculated at prices of more than two decades earlier means many countries would find it difficult to stay within the limit potentially attracting strong penalties from the trade body.

This will affect India's food security programme and food grain procurement through the minimum support prices (MSP).

"The MSP policy acts as a means to keep farmers engaged in cultivation and if this comes into question, the livelihood of half of India's population would be in jeopardy. More than 90% of India's farmers are resource-poor, who own less than 10 hectares of unirrigated land," the source said.

According to Indian trade negotiators, developed countries have pressed for early adoption of the TFA that will give them enhanced market access but have avoided discussions on other issues.

India will also make a strong pitch for deciding on a roadmap with clear timelines for different stages till finding a solution December31, 2014 and review the progress by the WTO's General Council in October this year.

"Once the TFA is implemented, India would have lost the bargaining space for an outcome on food security," the source said.

This stance to brazen it out, however, carries the risk of pushing India into corner if the WTO decides to adopt the TFA by a simple majority. Besides, pressure from developed countries could adversely affect bilateral trade ties.

"The TFA protocol amendment can be adopted by a simple majority voting. However, the option of voting has never been exercised in the WTO," an Indian official said.
 

happy

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India threatens to block WTO deal, evokes angry reaction from US

India told the World Trade Organisation on Friday it will only back a worldwide reform of customs rules — the so-called trade facilitation agreement (TFA) — if its demands on rules for government-driven food procurement and welfare schemes are implemented in the same timeframe.

"India is of the view that the TFA must be implemented only as part of a single undertaking including the permanent solution on food security," Indian ambassador Anjali Prasad told a WTO meeting. "My delegation is of the view that the adoption of the TFA Protocol be postponed till a permanent solution on public stockholding for food security is found."

The move triggered strong reactions from the fellow WTO members with the US warning that an ultimatum by India would end global trade reform efforts.

"Today, we are extremely discouraged that a small handful of members in this organisation are ready to walk away from their commitments at Bali, to kill the Bali agreement, to kill the power of that good faith and goodwill we all shared, to flip the lights in this building back to dark," US ambassador Michael Punke warned in a speech to the Geneva-based body on Friday.

As reported in HT on July 21, India made it clear that it will continue to oppose the TFA's adoption if the deal doesn't come bundled with a permanent solution that will allow unhindered roll-out of welfare schemes such as the food security programme.

"Our expectations have been completely belied by the developments after the Bali Ministerial. As we have consistently pointed out, India is seriously concerned about the lack of progress on some of the Bali outcomes and minimal movement on the others," the commerce ministry said in a statement Friday.



"We seem to be repeating our past mistakes. A clear will to engage in areas of interest to developing countries is conspicuously absent," the statement said.
At the Bali Ministerial in December last year, the WTO member countries had agreed to make trade easier, faster and cheaper by making systems transparent and reducing red tape by agreeing to adopt the TFA from July 31.

New Delhi is of the view that without a permanent solution on food subsidies, India's public stockholding programmes such a buffer stock of foodgrains will be hampered by the present ceiling on subsidy to farmers.

Existing rules cap the value of food subsidies at 10% of the value of production. But the way the support is calculated at prices of more than two decades earlier means many countries would find it difficult to stay within the limit potentially attracting strong penalties from the trade body.

This will affect India's food security programme and food grain procurement through the minimum support prices (MSP).

"Even seven months after Bali, we do not have the required confidence and trust that there will be constructive engagement on issues that impact the livelihood of a very significant part of the global population," the statement said.

"All we are asking is that the public stockholding issue as well as other decisions of Bali be taken forward in the same timeframe as TFA," it said.

The issue relating to public stockholding is an agreed part of the 2008 text and represents a life and death situation for a number of developing countries and LDCs.

India threatens to block WTO deal, evokes angry reaction from US - Hindustan Times
 

prohumanity

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Re: India threatens to block WTO deal, evokes angry reaction from US

Bold BJP govt. of India.....Don,t be intimidated by arrogant powers...Food subsidies are essential to prevent deaths of poor Indians who has difficulty affording food...No power should be allowed to stop India from providing affordable food to its citizens. Time for them to change their colonial mindset and dictatorial attitudes.
 

jamesvaikom

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Re: India threatens to block WTO deal, evokes angry reaction from US

Oil rich countries are richer than food surplus countries. Why WTO is not forcing oil rich countries to reduce subsidies on oil? If farmers get oil at lower rates then they can sell more crops at lower rates. If people in India can do farming then why people in Saudi can't extract oil from their land? Oil will become cheap if people are allowed to extract oil from their land. Cheap oil will help farmers sell crops at lower rates. So instead of defending our stand on food subsidy we should attack and demand WTO to force oil exporting countries to lower oil subsidies.
 

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