Modi Sarkaar 2.0, Indian politics, Economy, Security and Foreign Policy

Discussion in 'Politics & Society' started by hit&run, May 31, 2019.

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  1. hit&run

    hit&run Elite Member Elite Member

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    That is your subjective opinion.

    Hindi has shown the most growth than any other language. It has also made inroads in Kerala and TN but people are not ready to see it. Hindi becoming Lingua Franka is never the effort but growth in Hindi speaking region itself is the biggest assimilator. A cocky South Indian living in his own cocoon may be happy harping on Tamil superiority but as the markets are expanding and becoming interdependent each language is getting its own share of value with only Hindi expending.
     
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  2. uoftotaku

    uoftotaku Regular Member

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    He's just been given permission to fly to the Netherlands for "medical treatment"...
     
  3. hit&run

    hit&run Elite Member Elite Member

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  4. sorcerer

    sorcerer Senior Member Veteran Member Senior Member

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  5. S.A.T.A

    S.A.T.A Senior Member Senior Member

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    Sure hindi has registered growth in numbers, largely because the hindi speaking states also have registered high population growth rates. However the opposition to hindi as a national lingua franca was never because of it lacked numbers or that it lacked quality or importance by itself. Sure it is as important a language as malayalam, tamil or kannada, but just as the later three don't qualify to be our national language, hindi fails for the same reason... I don't know anything about hindi making new inroads into non hindi speaking regions, I learned hindi in my school more than 25 years back, so it's not a new thing. However its utility as tool for socioeconomic enhancement has either remained the same or has diminished. With thousands of hindi speaking migrants flocking to Southern states, it may serve these folks to learn some South Indian languages for a change.
     
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  6. ezsasa

    ezsasa Senior Member Veteran Member Senior Member

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    We are seeing right now what’s happening in Tamil Nadu because national discourse in Hindi language is not getting thru to Tamil masses.

    I have seen first hand how Tamils struggle in rest of India. My ex-boss never learnt Hindi during school days and he struggled for a decade facing Hindi speaking clients. Result was that client used to ask for another Hindi speaking person along with him so that he doesn’t misinterpret or misunderstand what is said to him in critical meetings.

    Keep in mind, a draft policy is issued by a committee not govt.
     
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  7. S.A.T.A

    S.A.T.A Senior Member Senior Member

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    Teach Hindi to children, I have no objection to it. But don't insist on making it compulsory. Like I stated in an earlier thread, I had sanskrit as a third language option in middle school, but was forced to opt for hindi as third language in my high school. If I had the choice and these options were available, I would have opted to continue with sanskrit or chosen malayalam instead. I had to learn writing and reading in malayalam through private tuition(which I had to discontinue) , which was an additional financial burden on my family and of course additional tax on my non schooling time. In my case, I had picked up spoken hindi, long before formal teaching, thanks to the all pervading Doordarshan. But my life in karnataka and Kerala functions smoothly with very little or no need for undergoing formal Hindi training.
     
  8. ezsasa

    ezsasa Senior Member Veteran Member Senior Member

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    Issue is being raised by Tamil Nadu parties, where most of the students learn French.

    They have no problem with French, but have problem with Hindi?
     
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  9. here2where

    here2where Senior Member Senior Member

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    The only use Hindi will have in south indian states is for south indians to communicate with labourers migrating here from bengal/bihar/etc.

    Otherwise, Hindi has no utility value in southern states among south indians (except maybe in muzzie dominated urdu-speaking parts of hyderabad). No communication, official or otherwise, happens in this foreign language.
     
  10. Sanglamorre

    Sanglamorre Regular Member

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    Issue is, we need a Lingua Franca and we need it now. Speaking from personal experience: my parents are currently in Vellore for mom's treatment. They have massive problems because the locals don't understand Hindi or English (in some cases their accent is unintelligible to my parents). My parents are Bengali btw.

    It's so bad that they have given up going to stores because they can't tell the locals what they need.

    OTOH, the place is full of Bengalis, both from West Bengal and Bangladesh. Bengali apart, they know Hindi and make a killing hosting and catering to the patients who come to Vellore. In fact, the landlord week is renting out the place my parents are in don't even subscribe to Tamil channels in his DTH (he is native Tamil btw). He only picks Bengali and Hindi channels because he says all his tenants are from those two groups.

    My point? This isn't government imposing a language. This is natural flow of people and migration. It'll only increase as time goes on. While the rest of India, whether we accept it or not understands Hindi. Each state has its native language and yet they pick up Hindi as well. English too. North East, or East, West- all of them are rapidly increasing their economy based on Hindi.

    In case of Vellore, simple economics would dictate that they start learning Hindi or be left behind. No one is telling them to give up their native languages, just asking them to learn another one which will open major doors for them. You think if they said Sanskrit the south wouldn't raise same objections? This is a issue of heart over head. An issue of them seeing it as erosion of identity rather than an addition to it.

    And Sanskrit isn't going to solve anything. The whole country would need to be retrained. As things stand now, Hindi is the single language that will unlock communication with most of India, so it makes sense to me at least.

    I think we don't need to do anything. As businesses and communities flourish using Hindi, the South will feel the pinch soon. Pride, honour, identity, it all dents in front of economy. "Imposing" a language might be the correct decision so that they aren't left behind, but ultimately they'd need to make the choice themselves in micro level.

    They'll make the choice soon.
     
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  11. here2where

    here2where Senior Member Senior Member

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    Why did they go to Vellore instead of a hospital in a hindi-speaking state? Vellore was recommended as the best in business by another doctor or it suited your requirements, i presume?
    Am sure we both will agree, that Vellore will not lose its north indian customers even if TN/other states reject Hindi for the foreseeable future?

    What pinch? South (and Maharashtra) has been properous and even supporting North indian states a great extent without ever accepting hindi. And no harm will come if the status quo continues.

    https://www.livemint.com/Opinion/cC...South-India-states-must-assist-the-North.html

    https://scroll.in/article/810717/in...richer-older-south-and-a-poorer-younger-north

    https://www.quora.com/Why-is-South-India-much-more-developed-than-North-India

    https://www.thehindubusinessline.co...e-republic-of-south-india/article26914315.ece
     
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  12. Indrajit

    Indrajit Senior Member Senior Member

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    French would be a choice; as long as Hindi remains one too, I don’t think there will be any objection.
     
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  13. Indrajit

    Indrajit Senior Member Senior Member

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    Your general point on economics etc is sound but it’s not the south that faces the pinch. South is a destination for many from the North. Where it is a part of a business, it will be in the interest of those involved to speak the language of their customers whether Hindi or Bengali, just Like many businesses in Manali have Hebrew signboards or the quite a few Goans speaking Russian . Would not make sense for others to learn either Hebrew or Russian.

    Saying the south will get left behind is more than a bit odd because it’s them and the western states driving the economy. If you are confident of Hindi’s necessity in the south, then all you have to do is wait. Except for TN, it is taught in the other South Indian states. Best though not to be provocative on matters like this. Remember that it was in Karnataka, the state that gave 25+1 out of 28 seats to the BJP which had an agitation to remove Hindi signboards from the metro in Bangalore, probably the most cosmopolitan of all the cities of India. Playing with fire is stupid no matter what one thinks on an issue.
     
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  14. LurkerBaba

    LurkerBaba Staff Administrator

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  15. here2where

    here2where Senior Member Senior Member

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    It will be a very long wait i can confidently predict. Akin to waiting for a bus in the wrong bus stop. Fundamentally, hindi is not required in south. We are good without it, thank you.

    BJP's success in KA is due to RSS being strong in coastal KA from its very earliest days.

    https://www.firstpost.com/india/how...hakha-is-born-the-rss-takes-root-6364981.html

    BJP/RSS will not achieve such success in the other 3 states anywhere in the near future. And all this nonsensical hindi debate will do is to reinforce the image of BJP as a hindi party catering to backward northern cow belt politics/constituencies.
     
  16. S.A.T.A

    S.A.T.A Senior Member Senior Member

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    Dear sir, what you are saying contradicts your main argument. If people of the Hindi heartland are moving to the south to exploit economic opportunities here , the law of migration economics states that the migrants will have to acquire new skills to remain relevant in a labor force dominated by local population. This means over a period of time the migrants will pick up the local language, as against the local population learning the language of the migrants.

    This has happened in the 60's and 70's,when a substantial number of people from the south migrated to North as central government servants and had to learn local language in order to adapt to their new home. There are many second generation northies(couple of sindhis I know from coimbatore ) who speak fluent tamil and other local languages.
     
    Last edited: Jun 3, 2019
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  17. Indrajit

    Indrajit Senior Member Senior Member

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    Without disagreeing on the hindi imposition part of your comment , you are not completely accurate on BJP’s rise in Karnataka. It is pretty much a pan state party now though the recent results are because of a huge Modi wave, not because of the bJP alone.

    Hindi is decently understood and well tolerated in Karnataka . As a matter of fact, the noticeable factor in the Modi rallies were that in many places, people shouted down interpreters so as to hear Modi directly, even if they didn’t fully understand Hindi.

    Telangana is another state where the BJP May rise and Andhra too is a possibility in the long run. TN is difficult for any of the national parties, it’s not like INC had a free run there. Kerala will be tough for the BJP till the CPM collapses. Contrary to what is believed , the INC can only be a temporary recepient of Hindu votes in the post Sabarimala period. With its strong ties to IUML and the church, Hindu votes will sooner or later drift away, either to established “Hindu” party , CPM or to a possible new entrant, the BJP. That’s a long game though however.

    Not all states in the south are inimical to Hindi in the same manner as TN, most of them study it in schools and are exposed to movies and music. To speak of the entire south having the same opinion on Hindi would be wrong, the point though is that any perception of imposition will risk an backlash. Unnecessary imo.
     
  18. here2where

    here2where Senior Member Senior Member

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    CPM isn't going anywhere - too strong with roots going back generations and large swaths of lower caste population owing their affluence to CPM policies and they have deep loyalties and ties to it.

    Upper caste hindus will never swing en masse to CPM coz the memories and pain of land reformation act is still too fresh.

    Hindu votes can be split into upper caste voters (traditionally INC) and other/lower caste voters (strongly CPM). Effectively, upper caste voters are a minority among Hindus and even if these votes swing away from INC to BJP, BJP will remain only a bit player for the foreseeable future.
     
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  19. here2where

    here2where Senior Member Senior Member

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  20. uoftotaku

    uoftotaku Regular Member

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    It is sad to see how easily these snakes in Opposition can continue to exercise power over the national discourse by exploiting age old canards of regional chauvinism and division. All these arguments over languages just goes provides ammunition to the false notions of Bharat never being a United historical entity. We never seem to grow out of our habit to building barriers between ourselves. Sad
     
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