Modi Is Dragging India Into A US-China Conflict

[A chauhan]

I think the govt is equally paying attention to the superpowers, we need new techs perhaps that's why we are appearing as if we are inclined towards US. Aiyar is trying to create stir and putting ghee in the fire for political gain and to caress his beaten ego on Modi's victory.

 

[Indx TechStyle]

This is a dangerous game we are playing at the moment. It is justified only and only because China are playing dirty in Arunachal and Ladakh and doing frequent incursions. Otherwise, I find no reason or justification in antagonising China.
Yes, China is a big power. A big nuclear power. But that is not the reason we must be wary of it. It should be because this big nuclear power with nearly 3Billion population is sitting right across the mountains.
Bharat must attempt to make the Russia-China-India alliance work. Together, this alliance has the might to counter the whole of NATO. It is a dream(maybe nightmare for some) worth dreaming - challenging the might of the mightiest.

US is a country ruled by Jews. Jews for their dirty monetary gains and for the purpose of protecting Israel are allowing angry young whites to travel throughout the world and kill whoever they like to satisfy their primeval lust for war. [As the dark ages, and colonial empires have so aptly shown] To ally with this country is foolishness of great degree. Especially with neighbours like China and its neighbour Russia. It is like antagonising your whole neighbourhood only to satisfy some person in another city. There is no point in allying with USA. If anything we can ally with the countries of SCO, or we can pretty much do nothing. But choosing USA, the pimp of Pakistan - is wrong, briefly speaking.

What the f is Russia? Their power is declining.
India must play between East and West till it becomes a major foce itself.
Here's, economic outlook of world in year 2050(please note that they are assuming from 2014, by projections of 2015 or 16, Indian economy would be way greater and Chinese economy would be slightly smaller )
Large economy means more research, large defense budget, research budget, so a technologically advanced developed country.
Nominal

PPP

And again, note that it assumes, Indian growth at 6% till 2024, meanwhile we are currently growing at 7.9%.

 

[Rahul Khanna]

MER and PPP? Where do we stand on Real Dollar Terms? And what will our Gini Coefficient look like? Can we remove all of Urban Poverty and Most of Rural Poverty by then?

Rural Poverty also has alot to do with Social Structures in our country (caste, etc) can we over come those challenges? China doesnt have such issues.

 

[Indx TechStyle]

MER and PPP? Where do we stand on Real Dollar Terms? And what will our Gini Coefficient look like?

MER is real dollar term.
But as I told before, we are projected to grow no slower than 7% till 2024.
So, our economy must be $30-35 trillions (nominal) and $50 trillions (PPP) as of 2015 estimate unlike 2014 estimates of $27.9 trillions and $42 trillions.
As far as Gini Coefficient is concerned, it grows eventually.
We will have same developmental respect as that Eastern European countries like Turkey or Crotia etc..

Can we remove all of Urban Poverty and Most of Rural Poverty by then?[
Rural Poverty also has alot to do with Social Structures in our country (caste, etc) can we over come those challenges?

We have already done a lot.
Poverty ratio will be in order of zero point something (like Malaysia has 0.48%).
India’ s Poverty Rate Falls To 12.4 %, Electricity Plays Role
Some sources suggest even better.
According to last world bank reports, India has less less tha 8% poverty.

http://www.business-standard.com/ar...by-new-world-bank-formula-114080400161_1.html

And 5 years have passed since then.



I guess HDI of India must reach between 0.775 and 0.790 by twenty fifty.
China would be a developed country by then, meanwhile.

China doesnt have such issues.

Who told you that?
They have a lot. With a GDP(PPP) per capita of $15000, 5.1% poverty ratio is really high.
Moreover, I've visited China too once.
Their bigger cities are undoubtedly awesome, but rest of the nation and cities, you can't say you're not in India.

 

[Rahul Khanna]

What about meant was that China doesnt have "Social" issues hampering their economic growth. Our problems are compounded by social issues (its one of the reasons why our growth is even more .impressive).

One of India's biggest challenges will be our Rural Economy. As Industrialization / Urbanization enters the hinterlands you will create a new set of landless laborers (non agri workforce). Potential / risk of adding these to the poverty line. Secondly large tracks of our Population - Dalits, Adhivasis, etc in the remotest of places are at risk of being left behind. (The remotest of them simply arnt a powerful enough voting block to count for policy makers). Then ofcourse we have huge naxalite problems in our rural hinterland which needs resolving for any economic progress to happen.

Lastly all of these has to be overlayed with Education, Sanitation and Healthcare on a way higher quality level for it to truely reflect in quality of living increase


Regarding the 7% growth. Keep in mind

1. We have a "redone" formula that gives us this 7+% growth
2. Our Inflation will hover at 5 odd % for sometime.

Not withstanding that. also take into account that The Parallel economy in India (cash economy) does not get evenly added into GDP.

 

[Indx TechStyle]

What about meant was that China doesnt have "Social" issues hampering their economic growth. Our problems are compounded by social issues (its one of the reasons why our growth is even more .impressive).

One of India's biggest challenges will be our Rural Economy. As Industrialization / Urbanization enters the hinterlands you will create a new set of landless laborers (non agri workforce). Potential / risk of adding these to the poverty line. Secondly large tracks of our Population - Dalits, Adhivasis, etc in the remotest of places are at risk of being left behind. (The remotest of them simply arnt a powerful enough voting block to count for policy makers). Then ofcourse we have huge naxalite problems in our rural hinterland which needs resolving for any economic progress to happen.

Lastly all of these has to be overlayed with Education, Sanitation and Healthcare on a way higher quality level for it to truely reflect in quality of living increase


Regarding the 7% growth. Keep in mind

1. We have a "redone" formula that gives us this 7+% growth
2. Our Inflation will hover at 5 odd % for sometime.

Not withstanding that. also take into account that The Parallel economy in India (cash economy) does not get evenly added into GDP.

Well, I don't say that caste discrimination doesn't exist, but it isn't as deep rooted as hyped by foreign propaganda.
They themselves have similar issues.
Colour discrimination in west and conflict between Muslims and non Muslims in China.

For sanitation, we reduced open defecation from 70% to 37% in just three years and similar is for other issues.
Our GDP per capita growth rate too is one of the highest in the world.
Our HDI is rocketed and jumps every year.
I can list up such things about all issues.
We have issues but we are overcoming that fast.

 

[LETHALFORCE]

This article must be written by a self hating communist. Let's blame USA for the 1962 China war and the 4 wars against Pakistan too. These kind of articles and people are more dangerous than any enemies outside the nation.

 

[roma]

This article must be written by a self hating communist. Let's blame USA for the 1962 China war and the 4 wars against Pakistan too. These kind of articles and people are more dangerous than any enemies outside the nation.

yes , indeed , you beat me to it

the balancing act between being a friend of the USA and our own interests is a tough one but it is out in the open and plainly to be seen , especially these days with so many internet news warriors around - and so far the Modi govt has done pretty ok on this issue

what is a lot tougher is handling our own people , our own political hierarchy , which is still infested with the Nehruvian self -hating types who want to give away land and other resources for a peace which will never come though such displays of weakness

replace these ( mani shanker type ) clowns with better educated rational thinkers and at least 80% of our problems will be solved and the nation will benefit tremendously !

@Akask kumar
@angeldude13 @Abhijat @Ancient Indian @anupamsurey @aliyah @Alien @angeldude13 @Abhijat @Ancient Indian @anupamsurey @aliyah @Alien @Aravind Sanjeev @A chauhan @asingh10
@aditya g @asianobserve @Bahamut @BATTLE FIELD @bose @Bornubus @brational @blueblood @Blackwater @Blood+ @bhai-117 @Bangalorean @bengalraider @Bengal_Tiger @biswas_k11
@cobra commando @Chirag @Chris Jude @Chinmoy @Cadian @DingDong @dhananjay1 @ersakthivel @FRYCRY @Gessler @garg_bharat @guru-dutt @Hari Sud @hit&run @HeinzGud @indiandefencefan @I_PLAY_BAD @Indian Devil @Indibomber @Jangaruda @Jay Patel
@jackprince @Kshatriya87 @LETHALFORCE @laughingbuddha @mhk99
@MetsaMan @Mark Antony @manutdfan
@maomao @Navneet Kundu @Neil @Nicky G @OneGrimPilgrim @pmaitra @parijataka @PaliwalWarrior @Pulkit @PrashantAzazel@ @Rowdy @Razor @Rashna @rock127 @R.parida @shade @sasum @smestarz
@Sakal Gharelu Ustad @Srinivas_K @sunnyv @sgarg @sabari @Sameet2 @saik @sorcerer @Superdefender @sydsnyper @Sridevi @SREEKAR @Screambowl @Sylex21 @Tactical Frog @TejasMK3 @The enlightened @tejas warrior @tharun @thethinker @tsunami @VIP @VaghaDeva @Vishwarupa @Vishal Guts @Yusuf @Yumdoot @Zebra

 

[Bornubus]

@roma

He is not dragging India into US China conflict but taking a clear Side.

India already has a disputed history with China and a war.

I don't mind to be with US side as long as it benefit India, both Militarily and Politically.

 

[hit&run]

We can not beat China bullet by bullet and men by men, we need technological edge.

We also need strong Geo-political clout that is not only dependent on Russia.

China digested Tibet, China will digest SCS, they are already eroding our borders, they have moved in POK. Only a person blind like a Bat won't be able to see the method in Chinese madness. They will keep it below to a certain threshold so that you remain confused and in dilemma to take action.

They are so cunning that after UNCLOS verdict they started speaking on behalf of India that India is with them. The con man knew India will neither rebut it nor agree with it.

We are dealing with a highly maneuvering (Diplomatically, Militarily etc.) adversary who will only understand the language of strength.

By entrenching three armored regiments in Ladakh NDA government is readying its self to call their bluff.

The days of laborious debates and decision making dilemma are over, lets us start thinking ahead, make some alliances and try them out for god sake.

 

[hit&run]

Just noticed I went pat 5K Posts, wooo.......hooo so many rants. :blah: :blah: :biggrin2:

 

[thethinker]

@roma

This question about whether India getting close to US is desirable was asked by Arnab during his interview with PM.

Watch from 20:27 onwards on how PM explains his foreign policy strategy.


The gist of it is that the world is no longer US/USSR centric, all nations are interdependent and interconnected. So being friendly whether its USA or Iran is important. Also, even smaller nations can't be viewed in isolation and relationships need to be forged.

 

[spikey360]

What the f is Russia? Their power is declining.

Haha! Good one. Their power was also declining post USSR break-up.
Let's not kid ourselves. Unless we become a country having thousands of piled up warheads, Russia will always be some f.
As for your numbers. These are all projections. I would like to know what these institutions and people projected about China, Russia, USA and India in the 70s and 80s. Then only can these numbers be taken seriously.

 

[spikey360]

We can not beat China bullet by bullet and men by men, we need technological edge.

And that technological edge, I suppose in your mind, will be provided by Uncle Sam?
Never heard of a country becoming great by depending upon someone else's might.

 

[pmaitra]

@roma

This question about whether India getting close to US is desirable was asked by Arnab during his interview with PM.

Watch from 20:27 onwards on how PM explains his foreign policy strategy.


The gist of it is that the world is no longer US/USSR centric, all nations are interdependent and interconnected. So being friendly whether its USA or Iran is important. Also, even smaller nations can't be viewed in isolation and relationships need to be forged.

Thanks for pointing out the time-point. That was really helpful.

There is another thing to note: India can be a friend of the US but does not have to be an ally. This is what Arnab says (not an exact quote), and Modi does not directly answer the question. I am assuming he agrees with Arnab's interpretation.

 

[Indx TechStyle]

Haha! Good one. Their power was also declining post USSR break-up.
Let's not kid ourselves. Unless we become a country having thousands of piled up warheads, Russia will always be some f.
As for your numbers. These are all projections. I would like to know what these institutions and people projected about China, Russia, USA and India in the 70s and 80s. Then only can these numbers be taken seriously.

Whatever, we are way stronger economically. So, we cab easily ramp up military if we want.

 

[spikey360]

Whatever, we are way stronger economically. So, we cab easily ramp up military if we want.

No my friend, ramping up military is not something that can be done overnight, it needs decades of planning in advance. You will design those vehicles and aircrafts now which you will be needing 10-15 years later. You will be building those crafts now which you will be needing 5 years later. You will be recruiting those men now who will be commanders in 3/4/5 years time. The generals you have now will probably not take part in the war 10 years later.
So every aspect about war has to be planned a very long time back. Even your Pakistan policy ten years down the line is being drawn up now in Foreign office and RAW as we speak.
So no, being strong economically does not imply a great military force by default.

 

[fooLIam]

No my friend, ramping up military is not something that can be done overnight, it needs decades of planning in advance. You will design those vehicles and aircrafts now which you will be needing 10-15 years later. You will be building those crafts now which you will be needing 5 years later. You will be recruiting those men now who will be commanders in 3/4/5 years time. The generals you have now will probably not take part in the war 10 years later.
So every aspect about war has to be planned a very long time back. Even your Pakistan policy ten years down the line is being drawn up now in Foreign office and RAW as we speak.
So no, being strong economically does not imply a great military force by default.

India was most wealthy countries some centuries ago and west was fakir, what happend ? India is fakir and west is wealthy.

 

[Indx TechStyle]

No my friend, ramping up military is not something that can be done overnight, it needs decades of planning in advance. You will design those vehicles and aircrafts now which you will be needing 10-15 years later. You will be building those crafts now which you will be needing 5 years later. You will be recruiting those men now who will be commanders in 3/4/5 years time. The generals you have now will probably not take part in the war 10 years later.
So every aspect about war has to be planned a very long time back. Even your Pakistan policy ten years down the line is being drawn up now in Foreign office and RAW as we speak.
So no, being strong economically does not imply a great military force by default.

A stronger economy always ends up as as great military power and pathetic economy ends up your influence.
If you have large economy, you have more defense budget, bigger military and you can invest further in research to ramp up technology.
Here's, the case of 10-15 years, nothing can be done overnight. Neither rise nor fall.
You're talking of Russia?
They were third largest economy of the world in 90. Since when their economic power has fallen, their military capabilities have been slowing down. They even lag behind China in some fields.
Mark my words, even India will have edge over Russia in some techs in 15 years.
In brief,
You were asking of implying? You can't even imagine of a strong military without economy. Russia today has technology because they were economically powerful in past. Now, declining. You wanna see capabilities of Indian economic growth (how it implies power)? Innovations from India have been increased. India has increased indigenization from 25% to 40% and will be 70% in 2021. India has doubled it's defense exports from $150 million to $330 million in one year and will be $2 billion in 2018(among top 10 exporters).

 

[spikey360]

You're talking of Russia?
They were third largest economy of the world in 90. Since when their economic power has fallen, their military capabilities have been slowing down. They even lag behind China in some fields.

Agreed. So, what happened? Big economy should have meant more research, more innovation and larger military capabilities right? You have successfully given an example which argues against your point. So, thank you!

You were asking of implying? You can't even imagine of a strong military without economy.

Yes I can. It's called siege mentality. Throughout history siege armies have achieved great things. One of world's greatest offensive force, that of Gengis Khan - leave aside economy, they didn't have a country. And yet they were feared by all. The Vikings - massive military power. They had no great kingdom, forget economy. Japan WW2 - Massive military might, army of poor people. Country itself was struggling in poverty. Yet it managed to crush the mighty Manchuria, and let us not even talk about how great Uncle Sam struggled against the Japanese. Come to recent times - Russia. Second most powerful nation on earth (enough of Chinese bluff, the Chinese have rubbish hardware and worthless military, only thing they have is economy) So no, absolutely disagree with your point.

You wanna see capabilities of Indian economic growth (how it implies power)? Innovations from India have been increased. India has increased indigenization from 25% to 40% and will be 70% in 2021. India has doubled it's defense exports from $150 million to $330 million in one year and will be $2 billion in 2018(among top 10 exporters).

I had one rupee in my pocket, my friend gave me another. So I became two times richer. But does 2 rupees make me rich in 2016? This is laughable.
Pray what innovations are you talking about? I don't see the next Microsoft, next Boeing, next ThysennKrupp, next Pfizer, next Chevron, next General Motors, next Hyundai being Bharatiya. So, enlighten us about these innovations.
I am a Hindu nationalist, but even a nationalist must accept ground realities.