Modernisation of Indian Army Infantry

[sthf]

BC kya halat kar di Indian Army ki Khangressi mofos ne. Even the purchase of sport shoes becomes news worthy.

“Five companies had responded to our request, but animal rights activists had objected to our demand of a wanting a shoe with a leather upper and instead asked us to have it synthetic. The order was nevertheless retracted,”

Where are the serial killers, mass murderers when you need them?

 

[Suryavanshi]

BC kya halat kar di Indian Army ki Khangressi mofos ne. Even the purchase of sport shoes becomes news worthy.



Where are the serial killers, mass murderers when you need them?

I hope private companies are taking a note.

Congress was never good for private sector if Indian businessman want their companies to flourish then they must steer clear of Congress.

 

[ezsasa]

I hope private companies are taking a note.

Congress was never good for private sector if Indian businessman want their companies to flourish then they must steer clear of Congress.

Nahi sirji... unfortunately most of lala companies do not think that way. They are more than willing to give money and expect favours in return.

 

[Kshithij]

Nahi sirji... unfortunately most of lala companies do not think that way. They are more than willing to give money and expect favours in return.

Actually many companies are owned by congress politicians and hence resort to supporting congress. But most non political business prefer BJP. Congress does not ask for commission.. They don't allow private industry at all. They simply block the projects altogether or go for imports. The same commission which imports can offer can be demanded from private industry. But that is not done. The idea is to weaken Indian industry rather than to make money. Money comes from abroad

 

[Suryavanshi]

Actually many companies are owned by congress politicians and hence resort to supporting congress. But most non political business prefer BJP. Congress does not ask for commission.. They don't allow private industry at all. They simply block the projects altogether or go for imports. The same commission which imports can offer can be demanded from private industry. But that is not done. The idea is to weaken Indian industry rather than to make money. Money comes from abroad

It should be made as a goal to junk these stooge companies and promoting the genuine ones.
This is how a strong institution is developed support those companies that support the nation.
The companies must realise that Modi is there hope if they want to prosper.

 

[nongaddarliberal]

IA requirement is for CT ops which mostly involves close in fire fights without any external fire power support. Eg CASO cordon and search ops.

While the pics involving foreign forces you posted are geared for ops which involves medium range engagement while being supported by heavy calibre firepower. They don't involve CASO , they raze the location with heavy fire power before moving in.

So one cannot compare the requirements of IA and foreign forces with regard to body armour because the fighting tactics are different .

The foreign forces are fighting in foreign lands they don't give a damn about collateral damage.
For them mobility is important rather than full protection as they don't come in close contact with hostiles and even if they do almost all the hostiles are dead or incapacitated.


Also IA is fighting in own country so have to close in to avoid collateral damage and also catch any pigs alive if necessary for intelligence.

What about troops involved in conventional warfare? In case of a war with China or pakistan, our boys will need lightweight BPJ's for mobility in the mountains. Same with the western sector in Rajasthan and Punjab, where they will be continuously moving. I dont understand why we think protective equipment like BPJ and Kevlar helmets are only for counter insurgency. It should standard gear, though of course with different levels of protection according to the situation. Same with Night vision and Thermal vision. Every operational soldier should be able to see in the dark, and not rely on one guy in the team to tell where the enemy is.

 

[Alfalfa]

What about troops involved in conventional warfare? In case of a war with China or pakistan, our boys will need lightweight BPJ's for mobility in the mountains. Same with the western sector in Rajasthan and Punjab, where they will be continuously moving. I dont understand why we think protective equipment like BPJ and Kevlar helmets are only for counter insurgency. It should standard gear, though of course with different levels of protection according to the situation. Same with Night vision and Thermal vision. Every operational soldier should be able to see in the dark, and not rely on one guy in the team to tell where the enemy is.

The current BPJs on order are lighter than their "western" counterparts and yet provided the same ballistic stoppage... those BPJs performed splendidly and rightfully got good orders

 

[nongaddarliberal]

The current BPJs on order are lighter than their "western" counterparts and yet provided the same ballistic stoppage... those BPJs performed splendidly and rightfully got good orders

Good. I just posted that message to say that every infantryman should get protective equipment and night vision for all combat situations, not only soldiers in CT ops as he was talking about. When you look at pics of our soldiers from exercises like Ex- Shatrujeet in Rajasthan, they have the same old equipment, no BPJ, no individual night vision, no Kevlar helmet. Yet all around them are all these modern weapons and aircraft.

This has got to stop

 

[Kshithij]

Good. I just posted that message to say that every infantryman should get protective equipment and night vision for all combat situations, not only soldiers in CT ops as he was talking about. When you look at pics of our soldiers from exercises like Ex- Shatrujeet in Rajasthan, they have the same old equipment, no BPJ, no individual night vision, no Kevlar helmet. Yet all around them are all these modern weapons and aircraft.

This has got to stop

BPJ is very thick and can literally suffocate people in the heat of the desert. More people will die of dehydration due to BPJ than in war.

Individual night vision is very expensive and can't be given. The equipment is not old. Those helmets appear to be kevlar helmets itself. If you are expecting full cover helmet like the riot gear, then understand that the helmet can cause intense heat and make people dehydrate.

Thar desert is an extremely hot area. One must respect the situation. The equipments like aircrafts, tank etc have air condition and can manage it. That is not the case with Jawans

 

[Suryavanshi]

Individual night vision is very expensive and can't be given

Cut down the corruption in armed forces plug the holes from where the funds leak.
Officers must not have the luxury to sweep away government funds except in Pen. If the higher ups get 100 for armed forces then they should spend 100.

Top quality optics may not be posisbe for 1 million infantry men but they must provide it to special forces and the regiment that are most likely to engage.

And even when it comes to providing 1 million optics then that can be done but that will require a huge boost from private sector.
Govement shodld localised fund to companies like Tonbo and Tata etc etc for R&D and tell then to give their best performance.
How much does the optics cost any way?

 

[nongaddarliberal]

BPJ is very thick and can literally suffocate people in the heat of the desert. More people will die of dehydration due to BPJ than in war.

Individual night vision is very expensive and can't be given. The equipment is not old. Those helmets appear to be kevlar helmets itself. If you are expecting full cover helmet like the riot gear, then understand that the helmet can cause intense heat and make people dehydrate.

Thar desert is an extremely hot area. One must respect the situation. The equipments like aircrafts, tank etc have air condition and can manage it. That is not the case with Jawans

Plenty of armies fight in the desert with BPJ's

And at any one given time there will be 600,000 to 700,000 infantrymen in a full scale war. The cost of nightvision for this number is around 3 billion USD (including spares and backup) which is not at all out of our price range, especially when you pay for it over a 4-5 year period. And if we decide to give cheaper but lower quality night vision as standard loadout to every soldier, it will come down to just 1 billion USD.

 

[Kshithij]

Cut down the corruption in armed forces plug the holes from where the funds leak.
Officers must not have the luxury to sweep away government funds except in Pen. If the higher ups get 100 for armed forces then they should spend 100.

Top quality optics may not be posisbe for 1 million infantry men but they must provide it to special forces and the regiment that are most likely to engage.

And even when it comes to providing 1 million optics then that can be done but that will require a huge boost from private sector.
Govement shodld localised fund to companies like Tonbo and Tata etc etc for R&D and tell then to give their best performance.
How much does the optics cost any way?

I don't think Modi govt is that lax as to allow serious corruption. Also, the Army general appears to be a good man.

Plenty of armies fight in the desert with BPJ's

And at any one given time there will be 600,000 to 700,000 infantrymen in a full scale war. The cost of nightvision for this number is around 3 billion USD (including spares and backup) which is not at all out of our price range, especially when you pay for it over a 4-5 year period. And if we decide to give cheaper but lower quality night vision as standard loadout to every soldier, it will come down to just 1 billion USD.

It is not just about money but also about imports. India does not have 3rd generation GaAs NVD tube manufacturing. But India is in advanced stage of development. It is unwise to unnecessarily import them now. We already have 2nd generation night vision which we can give to our soldiers as that is made in India.

The mass manufacturing of NVDs will boost industries but also drain resources. There are many things which India needs to do before doing such mass manufacturing. The first priority is technology development, not mass manufacture. The resources must be allocated to technology development and not wasted for mass manufacture. The NVD made now will have to be disposed off in 10 years as they become old. So, the entire money will be wasted to do some exercises rather than actual usage during war.

The priority is to use the resources for the right reason at right time. Indian resources are limited and hence more focus has to be done for making resources to be used in war than just used for show off in exercises. For that timing o mass manufacturing and technology development is crucial

 

[nongaddarliberal]

I don't think Modi govt is that lax as to allow serious corruption. Also, the Army general appears to be a good man.



It is not just about money but also about imports. India does not have 3rd generation GaAs NVD tube manufacturing. But India is in advanced stage of development. It is unwise to unnecessarily import them now. We already have 2nd generation night vision which we can give to our soldiers as that is made in India.

The mass manufacturing of NVDs will boost industries but also drain resources. There are many things which India needs to do before doing such mass manufacturing. The first priority is technology development, not mass manufacture. The resources must be allocated to technology development and not wasted for mass manufacture. The NVD made now will have to be disposed off in 10 years as they become old. So, the entire money will be wasted to do some exercises rather than actual usage during war.

The priority is to use the resources for the right reason at right time. Indian resources are limited and hence more focus has to be done for making resources to be used in war than just used for show off in exercises. For that timing o mass manufacturing and technology development is crucial

Ok. But the point is that we do need to make it standard equipment in the near future, and it can't simply be brushed aside saying "we can't afford it". If it takes a few more years to indigenize the technology, then fine. And there is no way to know for sure when there will be a war. And once war is declared you cant then manufacture them and equip your troops. They have to already be there in the inventory.

 

[Kshithij]

Ok. But the point is that we do need to make it standard equipment in the near future, and it can't simply be brushed aside saying "we can't afford it". If it takes a few more years to indigenize the technology, then fine. And there is no way to know for sure when there will be a war. And once war is declared you cant then manufacture them and equip your troops. They have to already be there in the inventory.

War can't be declared just like that. For that a build up is needed and it will be noticed quickly. Also, do understand that the requirement is not inventory but manufacturing and scaling ability. In WW2, USA alone sent 1.2 crore soldiers when USA population was 12.5 crore. So, an inventory for 15 lakh soldiers today will be nowhere enough. It is possible to manufacture large quantity of equipment once arms build up is observed anywhere if there is technology and infrastructure.

 

[nongaddarliberal]

War can't be declared just like that. For that a build up is needed and it will be noticed quickly. Also, do understand that the requirement is not inventory but manufacturing and scaling ability. In WW2, USA alone sent 1.2 crore soldiers when USA population was 12.5 crore. So, an inventory for 15 lakh soldiers today will be nowhere enough. It is possible to manufacture large quantity of equipment once arms build up is observed anywhere if there is technology and infrastructure.

Are you saying that we will need 10's of millions of troops for a war today? Really?

 

[Kshithij]

Are you saying that we will need 10's of millions of troops for a war today? Really?

For a minor skirmish, it won't be needed. But full-scale war will need crores of soldiers and crores of people in logistics, manufacturing of goods etc.

Don't forget that India makes 12000 cars every day, 50000 scooter/bike every day, 1000+ tractor, bus, truck combined every day. The entire manufacturing will be turned to war machinery. Construction of ships, tanks, IFV, helicopters, cargo & fighter planes will be in full swing.

Even after excluding background infrastructure like factory, manufacturing workers, the COMBAT workers and soldiers like- ground troops to capture, man the vehicles, hold captured territory, construct military bunker and infrastructure, field repair, field medic, field cooks, internal defence of infrastructure like dams, granary, factory, coastline etc require lot of personnel.

No matter how technologically advanced a country is, boots on the ground is important.

 

[Suryavanshi]

For a minor skirmish, it won't be needed. But full-scale war will need crores of soldiers and crores of people in logistics, manufacturing of goods etc.

Don't forget that India makes 12000 cars every day, 50000 scooter/bike every day, 1000+ tractor, bus, truck combined every day. The entire manufacturing will be turned to war machinery. Construction of ships, tanks, IFV, helicopters, cargo & fighter planes will be in full swing.

Even after excluding background infrastructure like factory, manufacturing workers, the COMBAT workers and soldiers like- ground troops to capture, man the vehicles, hold captured territory, construct military bunker and infrastructure, field repair, field medic, field cooks, internal defence of infrastructure like dams, granary, factory, coastline etc require lot of personnel.

No matter how technologically advanced a country is, boots on the ground is important.

What are we going to fight the aliens brudder.
Or are we going to revolt against the new world order.

 

[nongaddarliberal]

For a minor skirmish, it won't be needed. But full-scale war will need crores of soldiers and crores of people in logistics, manufacturing of goods etc.

Don't forget that India makes 12000 cars every day, 50000 scooter/bike every day, 1000+ tractor, bus, truck combined every day. The entire manufacturing will be turned to war machinery. Construction of ships, tanks, IFV, helicopters, cargo & fighter planes will be in full swing.

Even after excluding background infrastructure like factory, manufacturing workers, the COMBAT workers and soldiers like- ground troops to capture, man the vehicles, hold captured territory, construct military bunker and infrastructure, field repair, field medic, field cooks, internal defence of infrastructure like dams, granary, factory, coastline etc require lot of personnel.

No matter how technologically advanced a country is, boots on the ground is important.

Such a scenario will only happen if there is a full fledged conventional war spanning a few years, rather than a month long war that is likely to happen. As far as a "short swift war" goes, its a come as you are war. You cant manufacture and induct anything within that time.

 

[Kshithij]

What are we going to fight the aliens brudder.
Or are we going to revolt against the new world order.

Devil and his demons

Such a scenario will only happen if there is a full fledged conventional war spanning a few years, rather than a month long war that is likely to happen. As far as a "short swift war" goes, its a come as you are war. You cant manufacture and induct anything within that time.

What is short and swift war? What war ends in short and swift manner? These are just minor skirmishes. The short war is a useless war that does not permanently solve problem but only limits it for the time being.

The real war is being avoided due to petroleum trade. But, petroleum is not permanent.

 

[SanjeevM]

I don't think Modi govt is that lax as to allow serious corruption. Also, the Army general appears to be a good man.



It is not just about money but also about imports. India does not have 3rd generation GaAs NVD tube manufacturing. But India is in advanced stage of development. It is unwise to unnecessarily import them now. We already have 2nd generation night vision which we can give to our soldiers as that is made in India.

The mass manufacturing of NVDs will boost industries but also drain resources. There are many things which India needs to do before doing such mass manufacturing. The first priority is technology development, not mass manufacture. The resources must be allocated to technology development and not wasted for mass manufacture. The NVD made now will have to be disposed off in 10 years as they become old. So, the entire money will be wasted to do some exercises rather than actual usage during war.

The priority is to use the resources for the right reason at right time. Indian resources are limited and hence more focus has to be done for making resources to be used in war than just used for show off in exercises. For that timing o mass manufacturing and technology development is crucial

I recently read that the cost of indigenous NVD manufactured by private company is very less and they are supplying to US as well. Why not give them bulk order? It will be a force multipliers for jawans at frontline