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MMRCA News and Discussions - Part II
- Thread starter Sridhar
- Start date
cannot agree with you more ,but it deserves all the media attention as well as public interest because of the massive amount of money involved . just want the best aircraft to win ( regardless of country of origin )
Vladimir79
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According to the article, two squadrons more.
Considering Dassault tried to strong arm India for spares and force them into a ridiculous upgrade contract... I would say the confidence in them is pretty much shattered.
Quickgun Murugan
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Dassault probably feels it has an upper-hand in the competition, now that Brazil had opted for 36 Rafael fighters among the same set of contenders like Indian MMRCA competition.
Quickgun Murugan
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Well Bofors or not, JAS Grippen is too dependent on other countries from engines to avionics. End user agreement will be a pain for IAF.
The only sensible option at present is Mig-35.Modify & upgrade it as we did in
case of Su-30 & induct them in large numbers, say around 230. Mig-35 is the best one due to
1.Improver Zhuk-Ae: Range 200 kms against 3m2 target.
2.3D Tvc.
3.Ols-35-The best in the world.
4.Highly aero-dynamic airframe.
case of Su-30 & induct them in large numbers, say around 230. Mig-35 is the best one due to
1.Improver Zhuk-Ae: Range 200 kms against 3m2 target.
2.3D Tvc.
3.Ols-35-The best in the world.
4.Highly aero-dynamic airframe.
what about the recent french fiasco ? france asking too much for upgrade for mirage ? that is an issue which will affect the decision process
well i think we shoudl buy more than just two squadron because we have 50 mirage,so we should atleat buy 50 more aircraft
dineshchaturvedi
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I also feel we should buy atleast 200 our threat is growing by the day.
With the Americans growing arms export to pak under the name of Taliban , we can eliminate f-16 and f-18.
Grippen has no chance what so ever, coz of LCA and the other facts like mentioned above.
France as we all know is greedy, and by the recent failed negotiation in mirage upgrade deal , they are digging their own grave.
So all these sums up to the win win deal for MIG-35.
Note: Typhoon is there only for the sake of participating.
Adding spice to discussion will there be any re tender, coz its a big deal and any scam will break the government severely.
Grippen has no chance what so ever, coz of LCA and the other facts like mentioned above.
France as we all know is greedy, and by the recent failed negotiation in mirage upgrade deal , they are digging their own grave.
So all these sums up to the win win deal for MIG-35.
Note: Typhoon is there only for the sake of participating.
Adding spice to discussion will there be any re tender, coz its a big deal and any scam will break the government severely.
MiG-35, brief review
Looking on the long discussions on Bharat-Rakshak Indian military forum I felt the need to make some short review about MiG-35. As usually I use only open source information in my post. It is from different on-line or off-line sources, Russian and foreign.
Sometimes the contradicting sentences are seen about this plane:
1) The aircraft has an old-fashion plane, way older, than any other MMRCA tender contenders except F-16. So it's at the end of its life, cannot be kept modernized in next 20-30 years.
2) The aircraft is a 'paper plane'. So, its capability is totally uncertain and a purchasing would be accompanied with high risk.
- Obvious, the first rules out the second and vice versa. However, both conclusions are wrong. I hardly can say the true lies between them too. In fact, MiG-29/MiG-35 family airframe design was started after first serial F-16 and F-18 prototypes look light and then their capabilities were well known to Russian engineers. So, MiG-29 is designed with these rivals in mind. F-18 and F-15 have had airframe evolving too, became F/A-18F/E and F-16 blocks 52/60 variants with different airframe and better overall capabilities. MiG-35 - is a next Russian step and in certain degree an answer to the last American variants of 4th generation tactical attack aircrafts. Indeed, MiG-35 is very mature 4th gen. fighter (MiG-29) with a big improvement.
- Historically MiGs – are the greatest enemy of the American fighters. Absolutely ALL American planes, lost to East Block in conflict over Korea, Vietnam and China in air fighting were hit by MiGs. It's thousands of planes… Therefore, the hate to MiGs is very explicable in Anglo-Saxon states. It would be just naturally if the Americans see MiG as the most probably air rival, and any step in their fighting aircraft development is made with MiGs in mind.
Now MiG-29 family includes the number of serial and prospective jets. MiG-29SMT – is the most simple and chip variant, made with soviet-time spare up-worked airframes with slightly modernized RD-33 ser.3 engine and slotted array Zhuk-ME radar. The other sensors and avionics are up to consumer choice. A number of countries (Yemen, Algeria) have already purchased this model, but the existence of soviet-made parts on the planes was inevitable, - something that leaves client unsatisfied (Algeria).
Although currently produced for Indian Navy MiG-29K ('9-41') and two-sitter MiG-29KUB ('9-47') fighters – have the same name and same aerodynamics as those MiG-29Ks ('9-31') initially offered for Russian fleet, their airframe technology is totally different. There is no (as many mistakably thought) light beryllium-aluminum alloys. Instead, there is use of composites (15% of aircraft surface area).
The reworked MiG-29M ('9-61') MiG-29M2 ('9-67') line has airframe on MiG-29K/KUB ('9-41' – '9-47') basis and almost the same weapon and avionics. It could be worth to define briefly the main differences between classic line of MiG-29 on one hand and both MiG-29K/KUB & MiG-29M/M2 on the other:
- The latest has 15-20% composite airframe,
- Slightly bigger wings and ailerons, new wingspan is 11,99 m against 11,36 m.
- Bigger horizontal stabilizers and rudders,
- Wider spine with bigger internal fuel tanks, 1.5 time more fuel.
- Bigger additional fuel tank is allowed (grow from 1520 l to 2150 l)
- Higher load, (4500 --> 5500 kg )
- Antiradar coating,
- Higher trust engines RD-33MK (2x8300 --> 2x9000 kg on afterburner), with longer MTBO/MTBF (2000 --> 4000 hours)
-Reduced infrared emission of the engines,
- Smokeless burner
- FADEC full control system for engines
- Longer life of airframe. Growing up from 2500 fly hours or 20 years rised to 5000 f/h or 30 years.
- Higher number of loading points (9 instead of 6) and heavier weight is allowed for new more heavy missiles.
- Dorsal air intake inlets are removed, fuel tank is installed instead.
- Inlet defense system is installed (grids).
- Totally redesigned canopy
- Service improvement , on-condition maintenance, fuel economy with 2.5 times reducing of flight-hour cost.
- Fly-by-wire
- Refueling capacity
- Open architecture of avionics
- Anti-corrosive defense of a naval aircraft level.
For MiG-35 however further improvements are made.
- MiG-35 has no dorsal air brake (rudders are used instead),
- 11 points of load instead of 9
- 6500 kg max load instead of 5500
- Difference in chassis
- Airframe life 5000 -->6000 hours or 40 years
- AESA radar
- Missiles warning system
- Broader weapon spectrum (+3M-14, 3M-54, KAB-1500)
- Advanced IRST
- Trust vectoring engine
- Better avionics
The most important specs of MiG-35 (two-sitter MiG-35D) are as follow:
Normal take-off mass --- 17,500 (17,800) kg
Maximal --- 23,500 kg
Max. landing mass ---16,800 kg
Internal fuel --- 4,800 kg
Max. load --- 6,500 kg
Max. speed
- low 1,400 km/h
- high 2,100
Mach 2.0
Gmax --- 9.0
Ferry distance
- internal fuel ---2,000 (1,700) km
- 3 external tanks ---3,000 (2,700) km
- 3 e.t. + 1 refueling ---6,000 (5,700) km
Take-off strip --- 550 m
Landing strip --- 600 m
Engines --- 2x RD-33MK
Power 2x 9,000 kg on afterburner
Airframe
MiG-35 has improved aerodynamic with sharp LERX, wider nose con for more powerful radar option, bigger cage with better ergonomics, absence of upper air-intakes for garbage defense on taking-of, with special unclose grids instead.
New 3-chennal fly-by-wire KSU-961 system with 4-time signal doubling. It's made on the basis of MiG-29K/KUB's FBW KSU-941 system and provides controllability of flying in all modes including super- maneuvering on over-critical AoA too. It provides automatic refueling in the fly as well.
The new big-blocks technology of welding is using on MiG-35. The use of composites is higher than with MiG-29K/KUB.The airframe life resource is 6,000 h or 40 years comparing to 2,500 h or 20 years on serial soviet MiG-29 and MiG-29SMT.
Improved aerodynamic and mechanization of the wings, higher wing area. Generally it's similar to MiG-29K wing but without folding. 11 load points allow 6,500 kg of load. No dorsal air-brake (as a variant).
The chassis is longer, and then the plane is sitting in more straight position than classic MiG-29.
The internal fuel capacity is raised as 1.5 times on MiG-35 and achieves 4,800 kg. New load points allow up to 5 external fuel tanks. The capacity of the central one was raised from 1520 to 2150 liters. However, the two-sitting MiG-35D variant lacks one internal fuel tank with 630 liter of capacity.
Under-pylon refueling PAZ-MK kit turns the plane into reciprocal refueler.
Engines
MiG-35/35D has two RD-33MK Klimov's engines with maximal thrust on afterburner 9,000 kgf, on maximal dry – 5,400 kgf. The life resource of this engine (4,000 h) was raised significantly comparing to standard RD-33 ser. 3 (2,500 h) which is used on Russian and Indian MiG-29's and which technology is already transferring to India. The time before overall is 1000 h. If a customer wants, MiG-35 may be equipped with Klimov's RD-33MKV engine with all-aspect thrust vectoring nozzles. It was over all testing on the board of MiG-29M-OVT №156.
RD-33MK has FADEC 'BARK-42' and both are produced in serial for MiG-29K/KUB Indian Navy fighters. Modifications with higher thrust and resource are under development in 'Klimov Gas-Turbine Design' house.
The new gear system KSA-33M and turbo-starter VK-100 are developed for this plane by 'Klimov'.
Radar and avionics
Open architecture MiL-STD-1553B bus is used. HOTAS control. Zhuk-AE AESA radar (was described before ).
MiG-35 has 5th generation OLS-UEM FLIR – for frontal hemisphere searching and OLS-K (in conformal container under the right inlet) – for searching in bottom hemisphere. The manufacturer: NIIPP (Moscow).
OLS-UEM specs:
IR, TV and laser range finder
Angle of searching
Horizontal -- +-90 grad
Vertical -- +60 - -15 grad.
Head-on target detection – 15 km
Detection on chase - 45 km
Laser range finder - 15 km
OLS-K specs:
IR, TV, laser range-finder and laser spot finder.
Max. range of detection
Tank - 20 km
Fast boat - 40 km
Laser range finder, max distance - 20 km
Spotting targets - yes
Mass 110 kg
As a more cheap option, the 4th generation UOMZ's KOLS-13SM FLIR together with Sapsan-E laser pod are offered.
Missile Aproach Warning (MAW) system includes two modules for bottom and upper hemispheres. Developer: NIIPP.
Specs:
Mass - 9.5 kg
Range of detection, max :
air-to-air missiles - 30 km
ground based AAMs --50 km
shoulder AAMs -10 km
Radar warning system L-150 (TsKB 'Avtomatika', Omsk) has 4 stations on the wing flaps and vertical fins margins.
The enemy laser detection kit can detect an enemy laser on up to 30 km distance. The laser wave is - 1.06 – 1.57 micrometers. Developer: NIIPP. Its mass is 800 g, including two sensors on wing flaps.
Active EW kit: SAP-518 or KS-418. Developer: KNIRTI (Kaluga). It has high frequency emitters inside the wings and tail and medium frequency emitter under the left wing. As an option, the Italian 'Elettronnica S.p.A ELT/568(V)2 EW system is offered for Indian MMRCA tender. Other foreign or Indian EW systems could be adopted on MiG-35 too.
Passive decoys system.
'Black box' registration system 'Karat-B-35' is offered for foreign customers of MiG-35.
SVR-23M1K video registration system is installed.
The weapon outcome control system 'Trenage-29' is offered with MiG-35 too.
Thales' 'Topsight' HMDS is offered in a first line. It's similar to that on serial Indian MiG-29K's. The Russian 5th generation HMDS is under development by NPO 'Geofizika'.
The display configuration does repeat MiG-29K/KUB. MiG-29K cage has 3 6x8 inches displays, wide angle on glass indication panel. The second pilot cage on MiG-35D has 4 displays. The resolution and display refresh rate are higher than MFI-10-7 1024x768 pixels displays on MiG-29K/KUB board.
The navigation system is PrNK-35 of RPKB with inertial and satellite GPS-GLONASS navigation subsystems.
A number of Indian systems could be installed as well, according to what Indian customer wishes (if yes).
Weapon
- RVVE-AE medial range active homing AAMs.
- R-73E close combat AAMs
- 80mm and 122 mm unguided rockets kits
- Kh-29TE and other types of Kh-29 AGMs family
- KAB-500 and KAB-1500 family guided bombs.
- other 100 – 500 kg bombs of different types
- long range air-to-surface missiles of 'Club' family (3M-14AE, 3M-54AE1, 3M-54AE)
- Supersonic anti-ship and anti-radiation missiles of Kh-31 family.
- Subsonic net-centric anti-ship Kh-31 'Uran' missiles.
- 30 mm GSh-301 auto cannon.
Life cycle cost
The service of MiG-35 is executed by condition, with condition assessment each 1000 flight hours up to max. 6000 hours of life (or 40 years of service).
For comparison classic MiG-29 has only 2500 hours of life resource (or 20 years). Periodic routine service each 100 fly hours (1 year) is needed. Order works are each 200 f.h. (24 months). Plant MLU is needed on 800 and 1500 f.h. (9 and 17 years of service).
With all the amortization in consideration the flight hour cost of MiG-35 is as 2.5 times cheaper than for classic MiG-29!
There is an old calculation from the middle of 90th, for classic MiG-29's in Eastern Europe. Then the flight hour cost was $3000 for MiG-29 and $2000 for F-16 - it's without amortization cost.
In 1994 – 1996 a new MiG-29's price was as $25 000 000. F-16's price was $18 600 000. MiG-29's airframe life was – 2,500 hours, or $10 000 for 1 hour. F-16's airframe life was – 8,000 hours, or $2,325 for hour. Mig-29's RD-33 engine of old serials has life of 800 hours, wile F-16's engine of that time has 2000 hours life. So, with all the life cycle expenditure the difference in flight hour cost between two planes was much higher: $15 500 for MiG-29 and about $5 900 for F-16! Even after the dollar/ruble parity has changed the prices very significant, single-engine F-16 remain to be more attractive in terms of lifecycle cost against classic MiG-29. With new MiG-35 coming, this advantage is going to totally diminish.
Defunct Humanity: MiG-35, brief review
Looking on the long discussions on Bharat-Rakshak Indian military forum I felt the need to make some short review about MiG-35. As usually I use only open source information in my post. It is from different on-line or off-line sources, Russian and foreign.
Sometimes the contradicting sentences are seen about this plane:
1) The aircraft has an old-fashion plane, way older, than any other MMRCA tender contenders except F-16. So it's at the end of its life, cannot be kept modernized in next 20-30 years.
2) The aircraft is a 'paper plane'. So, its capability is totally uncertain and a purchasing would be accompanied with high risk.
- Obvious, the first rules out the second and vice versa. However, both conclusions are wrong. I hardly can say the true lies between them too. In fact, MiG-29/MiG-35 family airframe design was started after first serial F-16 and F-18 prototypes look light and then their capabilities were well known to Russian engineers. So, MiG-29 is designed with these rivals in mind. F-18 and F-15 have had airframe evolving too, became F/A-18F/E and F-16 blocks 52/60 variants with different airframe and better overall capabilities. MiG-35 - is a next Russian step and in certain degree an answer to the last American variants of 4th generation tactical attack aircrafts. Indeed, MiG-35 is very mature 4th gen. fighter (MiG-29) with a big improvement.
- Historically MiGs – are the greatest enemy of the American fighters. Absolutely ALL American planes, lost to East Block in conflict over Korea, Vietnam and China in air fighting were hit by MiGs. It's thousands of planes… Therefore, the hate to MiGs is very explicable in Anglo-Saxon states. It would be just naturally if the Americans see MiG as the most probably air rival, and any step in their fighting aircraft development is made with MiGs in mind.
Now MiG-29 family includes the number of serial and prospective jets. MiG-29SMT – is the most simple and chip variant, made with soviet-time spare up-worked airframes with slightly modernized RD-33 ser.3 engine and slotted array Zhuk-ME radar. The other sensors and avionics are up to consumer choice. A number of countries (Yemen, Algeria) have already purchased this model, but the existence of soviet-made parts on the planes was inevitable, - something that leaves client unsatisfied (Algeria).
Although currently produced for Indian Navy MiG-29K ('9-41') and two-sitter MiG-29KUB ('9-47') fighters – have the same name and same aerodynamics as those MiG-29Ks ('9-31') initially offered for Russian fleet, their airframe technology is totally different. There is no (as many mistakably thought) light beryllium-aluminum alloys. Instead, there is use of composites (15% of aircraft surface area).
The reworked MiG-29M ('9-61') MiG-29M2 ('9-67') line has airframe on MiG-29K/KUB ('9-41' – '9-47') basis and almost the same weapon and avionics. It could be worth to define briefly the main differences between classic line of MiG-29 on one hand and both MiG-29K/KUB & MiG-29M/M2 on the other:
- The latest has 15-20% composite airframe,
- Slightly bigger wings and ailerons, new wingspan is 11,99 m against 11,36 m.
- Bigger horizontal stabilizers and rudders,
- Wider spine with bigger internal fuel tanks, 1.5 time more fuel.
- Bigger additional fuel tank is allowed (grow from 1520 l to 2150 l)
- Higher load, (4500 --> 5500 kg )
- Antiradar coating,
- Higher trust engines RD-33MK (2x8300 --> 2x9000 kg on afterburner), with longer MTBO/MTBF (2000 --> 4000 hours)
-Reduced infrared emission of the engines,
- Smokeless burner
- FADEC full control system for engines
- Longer life of airframe. Growing up from 2500 fly hours or 20 years rised to 5000 f/h or 30 years.
- Higher number of loading points (9 instead of 6) and heavier weight is allowed for new more heavy missiles.
- Dorsal air intake inlets are removed, fuel tank is installed instead.
- Inlet defense system is installed (grids).
- Totally redesigned canopy
- Service improvement , on-condition maintenance, fuel economy with 2.5 times reducing of flight-hour cost.
- Fly-by-wire
- Refueling capacity
- Open architecture of avionics
- Anti-corrosive defense of a naval aircraft level.
For MiG-35 however further improvements are made.
- MiG-35 has no dorsal air brake (rudders are used instead),
- 11 points of load instead of 9
- 6500 kg max load instead of 5500
- Difference in chassis
- Airframe life 5000 -->6000 hours or 40 years
- AESA radar
- Missiles warning system
- Broader weapon spectrum (+3M-14, 3M-54, KAB-1500)
- Advanced IRST
- Trust vectoring engine
- Better avionics
The most important specs of MiG-35 (two-sitter MiG-35D) are as follow:
Normal take-off mass --- 17,500 (17,800) kg
Maximal --- 23,500 kg
Max. landing mass ---16,800 kg
Internal fuel --- 4,800 kg
Max. load --- 6,500 kg
Max. speed
- low 1,400 km/h
- high 2,100
Mach 2.0
Gmax --- 9.0
Ferry distance
- internal fuel ---2,000 (1,700) km
- 3 external tanks ---3,000 (2,700) km
- 3 e.t. + 1 refueling ---6,000 (5,700) km
Take-off strip --- 550 m
Landing strip --- 600 m
Engines --- 2x RD-33MK
Power 2x 9,000 kg on afterburner
Airframe
MiG-35 has improved aerodynamic with sharp LERX, wider nose con for more powerful radar option, bigger cage with better ergonomics, absence of upper air-intakes for garbage defense on taking-of, with special unclose grids instead.
New 3-chennal fly-by-wire KSU-961 system with 4-time signal doubling. It's made on the basis of MiG-29K/KUB's FBW KSU-941 system and provides controllability of flying in all modes including super- maneuvering on over-critical AoA too. It provides automatic refueling in the fly as well.
The new big-blocks technology of welding is using on MiG-35. The use of composites is higher than with MiG-29K/KUB.The airframe life resource is 6,000 h or 40 years comparing to 2,500 h or 20 years on serial soviet MiG-29 and MiG-29SMT.
Improved aerodynamic and mechanization of the wings, higher wing area. Generally it's similar to MiG-29K wing but without folding. 11 load points allow 6,500 kg of load. No dorsal air-brake (as a variant).
The chassis is longer, and then the plane is sitting in more straight position than classic MiG-29.
The internal fuel capacity is raised as 1.5 times on MiG-35 and achieves 4,800 kg. New load points allow up to 5 external fuel tanks. The capacity of the central one was raised from 1520 to 2150 liters. However, the two-sitting MiG-35D variant lacks one internal fuel tank with 630 liter of capacity.
Under-pylon refueling PAZ-MK kit turns the plane into reciprocal refueler.
Engines
MiG-35/35D has two RD-33MK Klimov's engines with maximal thrust on afterburner 9,000 kgf, on maximal dry – 5,400 kgf. The life resource of this engine (4,000 h) was raised significantly comparing to standard RD-33 ser. 3 (2,500 h) which is used on Russian and Indian MiG-29's and which technology is already transferring to India. The time before overall is 1000 h. If a customer wants, MiG-35 may be equipped with Klimov's RD-33MKV engine with all-aspect thrust vectoring nozzles. It was over all testing on the board of MiG-29M-OVT №156.
RD-33MK has FADEC 'BARK-42' and both are produced in serial for MiG-29K/KUB Indian Navy fighters. Modifications with higher thrust and resource are under development in 'Klimov Gas-Turbine Design' house.
The new gear system KSA-33M and turbo-starter VK-100 are developed for this plane by 'Klimov'.
Radar and avionics
Open architecture MiL-STD-1553B bus is used. HOTAS control. Zhuk-AE AESA radar (was described before ).
MiG-35 has 5th generation OLS-UEM FLIR – for frontal hemisphere searching and OLS-K (in conformal container under the right inlet) – for searching in bottom hemisphere. The manufacturer: NIIPP (Moscow).
OLS-UEM specs:
IR, TV and laser range finder
Angle of searching
Horizontal -- +-90 grad
Vertical -- +60 - -15 grad.
Head-on target detection – 15 km
Detection on chase - 45 km
Laser range finder - 15 km
OLS-K specs:
IR, TV, laser range-finder and laser spot finder.
Max. range of detection
Tank - 20 km
Fast boat - 40 km
Laser range finder, max distance - 20 km
Spotting targets - yes
Mass 110 kg
As a more cheap option, the 4th generation UOMZ's KOLS-13SM FLIR together with Sapsan-E laser pod are offered.
Missile Aproach Warning (MAW) system includes two modules for bottom and upper hemispheres. Developer: NIIPP.
Specs:
Mass - 9.5 kg
Range of detection, max :
air-to-air missiles - 30 km
ground based AAMs --50 km
shoulder AAMs -10 km
Radar warning system L-150 (TsKB 'Avtomatika', Omsk) has 4 stations on the wing flaps and vertical fins margins.
The enemy laser detection kit can detect an enemy laser on up to 30 km distance. The laser wave is - 1.06 – 1.57 micrometers. Developer: NIIPP. Its mass is 800 g, including two sensors on wing flaps.
Active EW kit: SAP-518 or KS-418. Developer: KNIRTI (Kaluga). It has high frequency emitters inside the wings and tail and medium frequency emitter under the left wing. As an option, the Italian 'Elettronnica S.p.A ELT/568(V)2 EW system is offered for Indian MMRCA tender. Other foreign or Indian EW systems could be adopted on MiG-35 too.
Passive decoys system.
'Black box' registration system 'Karat-B-35' is offered for foreign customers of MiG-35.
SVR-23M1K video registration system is installed.
The weapon outcome control system 'Trenage-29' is offered with MiG-35 too.
Thales' 'Topsight' HMDS is offered in a first line. It's similar to that on serial Indian MiG-29K's. The Russian 5th generation HMDS is under development by NPO 'Geofizika'.
The display configuration does repeat MiG-29K/KUB. MiG-29K cage has 3 6x8 inches displays, wide angle on glass indication panel. The second pilot cage on MiG-35D has 4 displays. The resolution and display refresh rate are higher than MFI-10-7 1024x768 pixels displays on MiG-29K/KUB board.
The navigation system is PrNK-35 of RPKB with inertial and satellite GPS-GLONASS navigation subsystems.
A number of Indian systems could be installed as well, according to what Indian customer wishes (if yes).
Weapon
- RVVE-AE medial range active homing AAMs.
- R-73E close combat AAMs
- 80mm and 122 mm unguided rockets kits
- Kh-29TE and other types of Kh-29 AGMs family
- KAB-500 and KAB-1500 family guided bombs.
- other 100 – 500 kg bombs of different types
- long range air-to-surface missiles of 'Club' family (3M-14AE, 3M-54AE1, 3M-54AE)
- Supersonic anti-ship and anti-radiation missiles of Kh-31 family.
- Subsonic net-centric anti-ship Kh-31 'Uran' missiles.
- 30 mm GSh-301 auto cannon.
Life cycle cost
The service of MiG-35 is executed by condition, with condition assessment each 1000 flight hours up to max. 6000 hours of life (or 40 years of service).
For comparison classic MiG-29 has only 2500 hours of life resource (or 20 years). Periodic routine service each 100 fly hours (1 year) is needed. Order works are each 200 f.h. (24 months). Plant MLU is needed on 800 and 1500 f.h. (9 and 17 years of service).
With all the amortization in consideration the flight hour cost of MiG-35 is as 2.5 times cheaper than for classic MiG-29!
There is an old calculation from the middle of 90th, for classic MiG-29's in Eastern Europe. Then the flight hour cost was $3000 for MiG-29 and $2000 for F-16 - it's without amortization cost.
In 1994 – 1996 a new MiG-29's price was as $25 000 000. F-16's price was $18 600 000. MiG-29's airframe life was – 2,500 hours, or $10 000 for 1 hour. F-16's airframe life was – 8,000 hours, or $2,325 for hour. Mig-29's RD-33 engine of old serials has life of 800 hours, wile F-16's engine of that time has 2000 hours life. So, with all the life cycle expenditure the difference in flight hour cost between two planes was much higher: $15 500 for MiG-29 and about $5 900 for F-16! Even after the dollar/ruble parity has changed the prices very significant, single-engine F-16 remain to be more attractive in terms of lifecycle cost against classic MiG-29. With new MiG-35 coming, this advantage is going to totally diminish.
Defunct Humanity: MiG-35, brief review
Another scandal for SAAB,is this the final nail in the coffin for SAAB's MMRCA dreams ?
Saab Denies Role in Seoul Bribery Case
Tuesday, October 20, 2009
Bribery allegations involving Swedish defense group Saab have been a fresh blow to South Korea's already ill-fated effort to build a homegrown fighter jet.According to the Defense Security Command (DSC), Seoul's military spy agency, officials from the DSC and the National Intelligence Service raided Saab's branch office in the South Korean capital last month after receiving a seizure and search warrant from the Seoul Prosecutor's Office.
The authorities also raided the Security Management Institute (SMI), a private defense research agency in Seoul suspected of having leaked secret information on the KF-X requirements, including the engine type, thrust and maximum takeoff weight, to Saab.DSC Commander Lt. Gen. Kim Jong-tae said in a parliamentary audit Oct. 6 that six people, including incumbent military officers, were suspected of leaking classified information.
South Korean prosecutors Oct. 16 arrested a former Air Force major general for leaking classified military information to Saab, Agence France-Presse (AFP) reported. He is suspected of handing over to the company information on the KF-X program to develop stealth fighters, an official at the prosecutors' office in Seoul told AFP. He declined to give details.Saab has been referred to as a viable candidate to join the now-delayed KF-X project, aimed at developing an F-16-class aircraft to replace South Korea's aging F-4s and F-5s.
Saab has rejected suggestions that it offered inducements for classified information on the KF-X project. The company intends to cooperate in "every way" with the investigating authorities in South Korea, Ake Svensson, group president and CEO, told Swedish TV channel TV4. The company is awaiting further information relating to the reasons behind the raids on the Seoul offices of both Saab and SMI, he said.
"We have not been told that any employees of Saab are involved for certain," Svensson said.Saab maintains that its association with SMI has always been open, transparent, professional and lawful.The Swedish defense company confirmed that it spent $17,200 to fund the visit of SMI President Hwang Dong-joon to Stockholm in March to attend a trade seminar hosted by Exportradet, Sweden's export trade council, which continues to work with Saab to market the Gripen-NG worldwide.
The SMI president met with officials from both Saab, a seminar sponsor, and Exportradet during his visit to Stockholm, according to Exportradet and Saab. Exportradet's direct contacts with SMI were established through its office here."If this is what is referred to as inducements, we would like to know in order to resolve the matter very quickly," Saab spokesperson Cecilia Schön Jansson said. "There is absolutely no indication that we would have paid any form of inducements. What we do know is that there is ongoing investigation into our representative office in Seoul."
DSC officials alleged that the sums involved were greater than that acknowledged by Saab.Saab has not been informed whether any of its three Seoul office employees, including a Swedish national, are suspected of any crime, Jansson said.
The Swedish government, through Exportradet and Saab, has expressed interest in forming a partnership to support South Korea's ambition to build a stealth combat aircraft. Sweden has offered to discuss an alliance that would see South Korea participate in the development of the next-generation Gripen program, while Saab is also interested in collaborating in the KF-X development using Swedish stealth technologies.
The South Korean probe is the latest to charge Saab with financial impropriety. In June, Sweden's Prosecutor's Office cited "a lack of clear evidence" when it dropped its investigation into alleged inducements paid by Saab, between 2004 and 2007, to secure Gripen export deals with South Africa, the Czech Republic and Hungary.
The KF-X program, which in 2007 was assessed as not viable economically and technically, has been postponed again due to the small increase of next year's defense budget. The original proposal was to spend 1.4 billion won ($1.2 million) to initiate development. Estimates of the total cost vary, with the Defense Acquisition Program Administration estimating about 100 billion won for development, spokesman Kim Young-san said.
Other foreign aircraft powerhouses have shown interest in the KF-X development. Boeing, Lockheed Martin and EADS officials said they were closely monitoring the case."We're aware of this investigation going on, but from Boeing's standpoint, I don't see anything for us in there," said Gregory Laxton, vice president of Boeing Korea.
The South Korean Defense Ministry is to hold a KF-X feasibility meeting later this month, based on the results of a six-month study by the Weapons Systems Concept Development and Application Research Center of Konkuk University, here.
WAR AGAINST CORRUPTION
Observers in Seoul say the investigation of Saab is part of South Korean President Lee Myung-bak's administration's push to root out illegal lobbying and other irregular activities by domestic and foreign firms in lucrative weapon procurements.
In July, Lee hinted at his anti-corruption effort, citing a problem with large rebate payments in arms deals."I believe about 20 percent of the defense budget could be saved annually if rebate payments in arms acquisition programs will be removed substantially," Lee said while being briefed on next year's national budget plan by the Ministry of Strategy and Finance.
In an apparent move to respond to the president's call, prosecution and security authorities are looking into any possible irregularities involving defense firms.
■ On Oct. 7, prosecutors raided Samsung Techwin, charging it tried, in collaboration with a foreign spare parts provider, with inflating the unit cost of the K-9 155mm self-propelled howitzer when the vehicles are delivered to the military.
■ Last month, Doosan Infracore was investigated for inflating the costs of engines for the Navy's next-generation patrol killer boats.
■ In July, Ilkwang, a medium-sized defense firm, was raided, with prosecutors alleging it tried to secure classified information on programs such as the Korea Utility Helicopter from procurement officials. The company was also accused of creating a slush fund and evading some 70 billion won in taxes.
Saab Denies Role in Seoul Bribery Case
Tuesday, October 20, 2009
By JUNG SUNG-KI and GERARD O'DWYER
Bribery allegations involving Swedish defense group Saab have been a fresh blow to South Korea's already ill-fated effort to build a homegrown fighter jet.According to the Defense Security Command (DSC), Seoul's military spy agency, officials from the DSC and the National Intelligence Service raided Saab's branch office in the South Korean capital last month after receiving a seizure and search warrant from the Seoul Prosecutor's Office.
The authorities also raided the Security Management Institute (SMI), a private defense research agency in Seoul suspected of having leaked secret information on the KF-X requirements, including the engine type, thrust and maximum takeoff weight, to Saab.DSC Commander Lt. Gen. Kim Jong-tae said in a parliamentary audit Oct. 6 that six people, including incumbent military officers, were suspected of leaking classified information.
South Korean prosecutors Oct. 16 arrested a former Air Force major general for leaking classified military information to Saab, Agence France-Presse (AFP) reported. He is suspected of handing over to the company information on the KF-X program to develop stealth fighters, an official at the prosecutors' office in Seoul told AFP. He declined to give details.Saab has been referred to as a viable candidate to join the now-delayed KF-X project, aimed at developing an F-16-class aircraft to replace South Korea's aging F-4s and F-5s.
Saab has rejected suggestions that it offered inducements for classified information on the KF-X project. The company intends to cooperate in "every way" with the investigating authorities in South Korea, Ake Svensson, group president and CEO, told Swedish TV channel TV4. The company is awaiting further information relating to the reasons behind the raids on the Seoul offices of both Saab and SMI, he said.
"We have not been told that any employees of Saab are involved for certain," Svensson said.Saab maintains that its association with SMI has always been open, transparent, professional and lawful.The Swedish defense company confirmed that it spent $17,200 to fund the visit of SMI President Hwang Dong-joon to Stockholm in March to attend a trade seminar hosted by Exportradet, Sweden's export trade council, which continues to work with Saab to market the Gripen-NG worldwide.
The SMI president met with officials from both Saab, a seminar sponsor, and Exportradet during his visit to Stockholm, according to Exportradet and Saab. Exportradet's direct contacts with SMI were established through its office here."If this is what is referred to as inducements, we would like to know in order to resolve the matter very quickly," Saab spokesperson Cecilia Schön Jansson said. "There is absolutely no indication that we would have paid any form of inducements. What we do know is that there is ongoing investigation into our representative office in Seoul."
DSC officials alleged that the sums involved were greater than that acknowledged by Saab.Saab has not been informed whether any of its three Seoul office employees, including a Swedish national, are suspected of any crime, Jansson said.
The Swedish government, through Exportradet and Saab, has expressed interest in forming a partnership to support South Korea's ambition to build a stealth combat aircraft. Sweden has offered to discuss an alliance that would see South Korea participate in the development of the next-generation Gripen program, while Saab is also interested in collaborating in the KF-X development using Swedish stealth technologies.
The South Korean probe is the latest to charge Saab with financial impropriety. In June, Sweden's Prosecutor's Office cited "a lack of clear evidence" when it dropped its investigation into alleged inducements paid by Saab, between 2004 and 2007, to secure Gripen export deals with South Africa, the Czech Republic and Hungary.
The KF-X program, which in 2007 was assessed as not viable economically and technically, has been postponed again due to the small increase of next year's defense budget. The original proposal was to spend 1.4 billion won ($1.2 million) to initiate development. Estimates of the total cost vary, with the Defense Acquisition Program Administration estimating about 100 billion won for development, spokesman Kim Young-san said.
Other foreign aircraft powerhouses have shown interest in the KF-X development. Boeing, Lockheed Martin and EADS officials said they were closely monitoring the case."We're aware of this investigation going on, but from Boeing's standpoint, I don't see anything for us in there," said Gregory Laxton, vice president of Boeing Korea.
The South Korean Defense Ministry is to hold a KF-X feasibility meeting later this month, based on the results of a six-month study by the Weapons Systems Concept Development and Application Research Center of Konkuk University, here.
WAR AGAINST CORRUPTION
Observers in Seoul say the investigation of Saab is part of South Korean President Lee Myung-bak's administration's push to root out illegal lobbying and other irregular activities by domestic and foreign firms in lucrative weapon procurements.
In July, Lee hinted at his anti-corruption effort, citing a problem with large rebate payments in arms deals."I believe about 20 percent of the defense budget could be saved annually if rebate payments in arms acquisition programs will be removed substantially," Lee said while being briefed on next year's national budget plan by the Ministry of Strategy and Finance.
In an apparent move to respond to the president's call, prosecution and security authorities are looking into any possible irregularities involving defense firms.
■ On Oct. 7, prosecutors raided Samsung Techwin, charging it tried, in collaboration with a foreign spare parts provider, with inflating the unit cost of the K-9 155mm self-propelled howitzer when the vehicles are delivered to the military.
■ Last month, Doosan Infracore was investigated for inflating the costs of engines for the Navy's next-generation patrol killer boats.
■ In July, Ilkwang, a medium-sized defense firm, was raided, with prosecutors alleging it tried to secure classified information on programs such as the Korea Utility Helicopter from procurement officials. The company was also accused of creating a slush fund and evading some 70 billion won in taxes.
first two points are do not make sense . Mig 35 will be upgraded for the next 40 years ( rather F-16 and f-18 production lines are being closed ) , Mig 35 is the best variant of Mig 29 to come out with totally redisgned cockpit and avionics
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Rotating E-Scan Radar May Push Eurofighter Exports
By tom kington
Published: 20 Oct 2009 06:54
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ROME - The new "repositionable" electronically scanned radar being proposed for the Eurofighter could make the difference for the fighter in export markets, its designers claim.
The Eurofighter currently flies with the mechanically scanned Captor radar, but the consortium that built the Captor is now pitching an e-scan radar, known as Caesar, to the U.K., Italy, Spain and Germany for its third tranche Eurofighters.
Related Topics
Unlike most e-scans, where radar radiating elements are placed on a fixed panel, the proposed solution for the Eurofighter will rotate.
"We believe the repositionable antenna is the way ahead and this will be approved by the Eurofighter partners," said Bob Mason, marketing and sales vice president for radar and advanced targeting at Selex Galileo. "It will be a differentiator in the export market place when competing against French and U.S. competitors which feature only fixed antennae."
Selex Galileo, EADS and Indra form the Euroradar consortium.
Fixed array e-scans rely on their multiple radiating elements to shift the direction of the radar beam. The Euroradar proposal undertakes beam shifting in the same way, but is set at an angle to the flight path and sits on a revolving gimbal, enlarging the area the beam can cover when it turns.
Officials said at the Paris Air Show this year that the function increases the angle of coverage from about 70 degrees to left or right to over 100 degrees, effectively allowing the radar to see "behind" the aircraft, useful for tracking weapons after delivery.
Mason said the e-scan radar offer to Eurofighter partners had evolved since work on the radar started.
"The Euroradar proposal was initially for a fixed antenna AESA radar with growth to a repositionable antenna," he said.
Mason rebuffed statements by U.S. radar makers that moving dishes dramatically increase maintenance.
"We say that the increase in both air to air and air to ground capability far outweighs any minimal increase in maintenance," he said.
"We would like to get at least a view of a common requirement by year end (from Eurofighter partners). Everyone recognizes the need for AESA radar for export campaigns like India," he said.
"If we get a requirement by year end we can have the radar ready for Tranche 3 Eurofighters but it will be very tight."
Rotating E-Scan Radar May Push Eurofighter Exports - Defense News
By tom kington
Published: 20 Oct 2009 06:54
ROME - The new "repositionable" electronically scanned radar being proposed for the Eurofighter could make the difference for the fighter in export markets, its designers claim.
The Eurofighter currently flies with the mechanically scanned Captor radar, but the consortium that built the Captor is now pitching an e-scan radar, known as Caesar, to the U.K., Italy, Spain and Germany for its third tranche Eurofighters.
Related Topics
Unlike most e-scans, where radar radiating elements are placed on a fixed panel, the proposed solution for the Eurofighter will rotate.
"We believe the repositionable antenna is the way ahead and this will be approved by the Eurofighter partners," said Bob Mason, marketing and sales vice president for radar and advanced targeting at Selex Galileo. "It will be a differentiator in the export market place when competing against French and U.S. competitors which feature only fixed antennae."
Selex Galileo, EADS and Indra form the Euroradar consortium.
Fixed array e-scans rely on their multiple radiating elements to shift the direction of the radar beam. The Euroradar proposal undertakes beam shifting in the same way, but is set at an angle to the flight path and sits on a revolving gimbal, enlarging the area the beam can cover when it turns.
Officials said at the Paris Air Show this year that the function increases the angle of coverage from about 70 degrees to left or right to over 100 degrees, effectively allowing the radar to see "behind" the aircraft, useful for tracking weapons after delivery.
Mason said the e-scan radar offer to Eurofighter partners had evolved since work on the radar started.
"The Euroradar proposal was initially for a fixed antenna AESA radar with growth to a repositionable antenna," he said.
Mason rebuffed statements by U.S. radar makers that moving dishes dramatically increase maintenance.
"We say that the increase in both air to air and air to ground capability far outweighs any minimal increase in maintenance," he said.
"We would like to get at least a view of a common requirement by year end (from Eurofighter partners). Everyone recognizes the need for AESA radar for export campaigns like India," he said.
"If we get a requirement by year end we can have the radar ready for Tranche 3 Eurofighters but it will be very tight."
Rotating E-Scan Radar May Push Eurofighter Exports - Defense News
Nothing new, Gripin Ng will also incorporate a swashplate Aesa which is offered for MMRCA.Rotating E-Scan Radar May Push Eurofighter Exports
By tom kington
Published: 20 Oct 2009 06:54
Print |
ROME - The new "repositionable" electronically scanned radar being proposed for the Eurofighter could make the difference for the fighter in export markets, its designers claim.
The Eurofighter currently flies with the mechanically scanned Captor radar, but the consortium that built the Captor is now pitching an e-scan radar, known as Caesar, to the U.K., Italy, Spain and Germany for its third tranche Eurofighters.
Related Topics
Unlike most e-scans, where radar radiating elements are placed on a fixed panel, the proposed solution for the Eurofighter will rotate.
"We believe the repositionable antenna is the way ahead and this will be approved by the Eurofighter partners," said Bob Mason, marketing and sales vice president for radar and advanced targeting at Selex Galileo. "It will be a differentiator in the export market place when competing against French and U.S. competitors which feature only fixed antennae."
Selex Galileo, EADS and Indra form the Euroradar consortium.
Fixed array e-scans rely on their multiple radiating elements to shift the direction of the radar beam. The Euroradar proposal undertakes beam shifting in the same way, but is set at an angle to the flight path and sits on a revolving gimbal, enlarging the area the beam can cover when it turns.
Officials said at the Paris Air Show this year that the function increases the angle of coverage from about 70 degrees to left or right to over 100 degrees, effectively allowing the radar to see "behind" the aircraft, useful for tracking weapons after delivery.
Mason said the e-scan radar offer to Eurofighter partners had evolved since work on the radar started.
"The Euroradar proposal was initially for a fixed antenna AESA radar with growth to a repositionable antenna," he said.
Mason rebuffed statements by U.S. radar makers that moving dishes dramatically increase maintenance.
"We say that the increase in both air to air and air to ground capability far outweighs any minimal increase in maintenance," he said.
"We would like to get at least a view of a common requirement by year end (from Eurofighter partners). Everyone recognizes the need for AESA radar for export campaigns like India," he said.
"If we get a requirement by year end we can have the radar ready for Tranche 3 Eurofighters but it will be very tight."
Rotating E-Scan Radar May Push Eurofighter Exports - Defense News
this radar will further increase the price of Typhoon i guess.....:dazed:
arya
Senior Member
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hi
we should buy or we should try to make planes i dont know when we are able to make advance plnes
we should try to make as much as possible
we should compulsory for all IIT students to work for R& D for our force and nation that will be a good step
jai hind
we should buy or we should try to make planes i dont know when we are able to make advance plnes
we should try to make as much as possible
we should compulsory for all IIT students to work for R& D for our force and nation that will be a good step
jai hind
p2prada
Senior Member
- Joined
- May 25, 2009
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Then nobody will take IIT courses. In the end, people work that hard only for large paypackets from large companies. Who will want to work for the govt after slogging for 4+ years? Bring govt salaries on par with MNCs and then we will talk.
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