Mi-28NE Vs AH64 D Apache : New Challenger against War Veteran

[Neil]

Trials for acquiring 22 new modern attack helicopters to replace Indian air forces Mi-24/35 Hind attack helicopters are over and its typical Russian versus American contest , a new challenger versus War Veteran . as per sources close to idrw.org Boeing built AH64 D Apache has undue advantage and is favored by Indian air force officials but Mi-28NE like its predecessor has impressed a few in IAF with its rigidness and heavy protection to the crew area .

AH64 D Apache is a war veteran ,since it saw action in Iraq ,Afghanistan and in Israel and still active in battle field and it has tasted sucess in export orders too , IAF officials have pointed out that Apache has advantage over Mi-28 in Avionics and fire power ,while Mi-28 scores over rigidness ,survivability and heavy Armour Protection to crew and engine .

Mi-28 got its first export orders from Venezuelan Air Force recently but numbers are low and even orders from Russian forces have also been on lower side since they preferred to buy more powerful Kamov Ka-50 "Black Shark" . interestingly Russia had offered Kamov Ka-50 "Black Shark" along with Mi-28 to Indian air Force , but for some not disclosed reason only MI-28 and AH64 D Apache was shortlisted for trials in India .

As per Reports both the platform have performed well in the trials and and final evaluation is on and results and winner of this competition will be disclosed by mid of this year or end of this year . IAF has already decided to acquire home grown LCH lite attack helicopters for which it has already placed orders of more then 65 aircraft's and Indian Army for the first time is planning to Acquire and operate an attack helicopter by Inducting LCH when it hits production in another three years to be used has tank buster and close air support to troops.

Mi-28 is heavy armed with Ataka-V anti-tank missiles , chin-mounted 30 mm Shipunov 2A42 cannon with 250 rounds and also can be integrated with Vympel R-73 air-to-air missiles , other then bomb load Mi-28 doesn't share much of its weapons package with its predecessor currently in service with IAF .

While AH64 D Apache carries AGM-114 Hellfire variants (India offer latest Hellfire-II) Anti-tank missiles ,one 30mm M230 Chain Gun with 1,200 rounds and can be integrated with AIM-92 Stinger air-to-air missiles .

Both Helicopters in fire power seems to be in par with each other , Apache does come with better avionics but it more expensive compared to Mi-28 , Mi-28 will be easy to operate logistically since Indian air force already operates Mi-24/35 Hind .



http://idrw.org/?p=1441

 

[jatkshatriya]

Say Hello to the big Dadday...ladies and gentlemen this is not a helicopter..it is a flying tank...just look at this ugly monster...mere sight of this with its full weapon load can make tanks go pop ..lol

 

[Godless-Kafir]

What about the LCH? Cant we Armour it more and make it an heavy attack chopper? Or do the IAF officers want to get paid by the Dollar to do their buying!

 

[jatkshatriya]

this is the Apache longbow....have unleashed hell on tanks in many wars...has superior electronics and is battle prooven...and yaa it is also better looking than the mi-28...if looks could kill this beauty would win hands down

 

[pmaitra]

What about the LCH? Cant we Armour it more and make it an heavy attack chopper? Or do the IAF officers want to get paid by the Dollar to do their buying!

^^ LCH is already an attack-chopper. No, we cannot add more armour because then it will not remain 'light' anymore (LCH - Light Combat Helicopter). It's virtue is that it can fly in the Himalayan heights, which our current gunship, the Mil-24/35 can only manage with reduced weapons load and rolling-takeoffs.

 

[Godless-Kafir]

^^ LCH is already an attack-chopper. No, we cannot add more armour because then it will not remain 'light' anymore (LCA - Light Combat Helicopter). It's virtue is that it can fly in the Himalayan heights, which our current gunship, the Mil-24/35 can only manage with reduced weapons load and rolling-takeoffs.

Are you serious? Why cant we add more armour and make it an Heavy Attack Chopper like Apache? Any reasons?

 

[jatkshatriya]

Are you serious? Why cant we add more armour and make it an Heavy Attack Chopper like Apache? Any reasons?

many reasons my friend....when it was designed many things were considered..if u add weight u will have to reconsider the power output...the weapons load it can carry ...and many other things..u can design a new heavy chopper based on LCH design with stronger engines maybe .... but just adding heavier armour to LCH and flying it as a heavy chopper isnt that easy

 

[Godless-Kafir]

many reasons my friend....when it was designed many things were considered..if u add weight u will have to reconsider the power output...the weapons load it can carry ...and many other things..u can design a new heavy chopper based on LCH design with stronger engines maybe .... but just adding heavier armour to LCH and flying it as a heavy chopper isnt that easy

Can you point out the power difference and engine specs between the LCH and Apache?

 

[jatkshatriya]

Can you point out the power difference and engine specs between the LCH and Apache?

dunno mate...googling may help

 

[bhramos]

this is the Apache longbow....have unleashed hell on tanks in many wars...has superior electronics and is battle prooven...and yaa it is also better looking than the mi-28...if looks could kill this beauty would win hands down

I mean How advanced version will IAF get, as already the C-17 and other deals with US got screwed because of end user agreement, will we get that superior electronics on board of these choppers, will this be degraded version [compared to US version] to please their partners in War on terrorism???

 

[Godless-Kafir]

dunno mate...googling may help

I know the specs and LCH is better, why they are going for Apache beats me. May be Some one like getting payed in Dollars like in Bofors.

 

[bhramos]

I know the specs and LCH is better, why they are going for Apache beats me. May be Some one like getting payed in Dollars like in Bofors.

the payment is common, But Apache is Superior to Cobra, and this will automatically rise the moral of Indians....

 

[Neil]

I mean How advanced version will IAF get, as already the C-17 and other deals with US got screwed because of end user agreement, will we get that superior electronics on board of these choppers, will this be degraded version [compared to US version] to please their partners in War on terrorism???

the contract is going to americans hands down....if u read the article it says that Kamov Ka-50 was rejected by IAF for ''undisclosed reason'' which was superior to MI-28

but you made an interesting point....Apache has awesome avionics but how much we will get from that is a billion $ question....

if anyone has comparison between Apache and Ka-50 please share.....thank u!!

 

[sandeepdg]

I know the specs and LCH is better, why they are going for Apache beats me. May be Some one like getting payed in Dollars like in Bofors.

Mate, LCH is a in a different weight category than the Apache, but I agree that LCH is great for our requirements. As for the powerplant, there's a big difference. LCH has 2 Turbomeca Shakti engines with a displacement of 1400 hp each, whereas the Apache has 2 General Electric engines with a displacement of 2000 hp each(Block 3). As for the firepower, both are well armed for their respective sizes. But what makes the Apache one of its kind, is obviously the Longbow fire control radar, the most sophisticated in the world, something no other helicopter has been able to achieve.

 

[pmaitra]

the contract is going to americans hands down....if u read the article it says that Kamov Ka-50 was rejected by IAF for ''undisclosed reason'' which was superior to MI-28

but you made an interesting point....Apache has awesome avionics but how much we will get from that is a billion $ question....

if anyone has comparison between Apache and Ka-50 please share.....thank u!!

Interesting.

There is no doubt that on specifications, Kamov beats each and every helicopter in the world. However, how easy and cheap is it to maintain? Kamov-50 was used in the Chechen conflict and proved to be a good helicopter. Was the maintenance cost the reason why the Russian Army refused to induct Kamovs in large number and chose Mil-28N instead? If I am not mistaken, cost was a major issue, both procurement as well as maintenance.

 

[JBH22]

Interesting.

There is no doubt that on specifications, Kamov beats each and every helicopter in the world. However, how easy and cheap is it to maintain? Kamov-50 was used in the Chechen conflict and proved to be a good helicopter. Was the maintenance cost the reason why the Russian Army refused to induct Kamovs in large number and chose Mil-28N instead? If I am not mistaken, cost was a major issue, both procurement as well as maintenance.

kA-52 allegedly has greater operation cost moreover there is a serious doubt by many on contra co-axial chopper,having said that Ka-50 series is the lesson learned from the Afghan war better maneuverability in tight spaces,higher altitude etc.
Mi-28 also appears to be a good platform inspite all the hype about Apache i still doubt about its so called Kevlar armour one was down by Iraqis with rifle in 2003 though its avionics appears to be the best.

 

[adyonfire4]

What about the LCH? Cant we Armour it more and make it an heavy attack chopper? Or do the IAF officers want to get paid by the Dollar to do their buying!

The thing is that it is light attack chopper that has light armour and the grand cockpit is so much over exposed that it becomes suspectable to bullet and artillery firing.Even if it is a light attack chopper if the design had been better more protection might be available but these people forget that also a benefit that must be counted is that the design is much more stealthy than other attack choppers thus reducing radar signature.

 

[adyonfire4]

Mi -28 is a sure winner for me in this contest the IAF would be really stupid to go with the Apache here The Americans are just earning money and playing politics while India on the other hand is trying to build a healthy relationship with them which is just not possible Also it must not be forgetten that this Mi-28 can further carry 3 paratroopers which can provide cover firing ,it has greater top speed,greater armour protection and of course the Russian Promise of TOT.While the Apache which rides high on its RADAR is a loser because the RADAR and advanced avionics would never be given by Americans to the IAF neither their would be any TOT.

 

[Neil]

Interesting.

There is no doubt that on specifications, Kamov beats each and every helicopter in the world. However, how easy and cheap is it to maintain? Kamov-50 was used in the Chechen conflict and proved to be a good helicopter. Was the maintenance cost the reason why the Russian Army refused to induct Kamovs in large number and chose Mil-28N instead? If I am not mistaken, cost was a major issue, both procurement as well as maintenance.

plus+.....they are reports that Ka-50 is mainly an anti-tank helo...but Mi-28 can do all the things that Ka-50 can do and also some other things like blasting enemy positions and stuffs[i got it from a blog so i stand corrected]

 

[sandeepdg]

Mi -28 is a sure winner for me in this contest the IAF would be really stupid to go with the Apache here The Americans are just earning money and playing politics while India on the other hand is trying to build a healthy relationship with them which is just not possible Also it must not be forgetten that this Mi-28 can further carry 3 paratroopers which can provide cover firing ,it has greater top speed,greater armour protection and of course the Russian Promise of TOT.While the Apache which rides high on its RADAR is a loser because the RADAR and advanced avionics would never be given by Americans to the IAF neither their would be any TOT.

I also like the Mi-28 for its firepower and armor protection and its a good value for money compared to the Apache. But still, the Apache's Longbow radar is in a league of its own. And for your information, India has been offered the most advanced Block 3 version of the Apache by US, including the Longbow radar and the associated advanced avionics suite.

http://defense-update.com/wp/20101229_india_apache.html
http://www.aviationweek.com/aw/gene...II Sale To India&channel=&from=topicalreports