MH17 might have been shot down from air — chief Dutch investigator

[apple]

Okay @pmaitra sir ... thanks for the reply ..

Why do you bother with asking him questions? Checking if he's still an idiot? He's gone so far with his stupidity I don't think there's any way back for him.

He can't even get his propaganda straight. Along with all the personal property they looted for the corpses of the people they murdered, the black boxes for MH17 were recovered by pro Russian seperatists and examined before one of them were turned over to Malaysia. If there was anything supporting his wild fantasies on them, it would have been reported back then.

The Malaysian gave the box to the British, who then gave it to the Netherlands for them to examine. The recording isn't being held by the British. Presume in the sad little world of the moderator, who shan't be named, trying to build an internet conspiracy against the British would work as he presumes, as all sociopaths do, that everyone else shares his stupidity and hates the British so much they'd believe his lies.

 

[SajeevJino]

Why do you bother with asking him questions? Checking if he's still an idiot? He's gone so far with his stupidity I don't think there's any way back for him.

exactly .. I taught he will turned down his views, after the crash report ..but @pmaitra still in the same communist room

 

[jackprince]

Frankly, whatever report comes out of the investigation, it will always remain inconclusive given that a suspect of the crime was included into investigation team. The moment they included Ukraine into investigation and denied open access to others to the evidence, the total investigation became sham. I feel sorry for the people who died, that nobody will ever know for sure what killed them.

 

[apple]

exactly .. I taught he will turned down his views, after the crash report ..but @pmaitra still in the same communist room

He's not a communist. He's just watched too many Russian "movies" on the internet and thinks Russian girls(/or boys) are so easy even a loser virgin like him has a chance to get some ;-)

I feel sorry for the people who died, that nobody will ever know for sure what killed them.

Everyone who doesn't automatically believe the "masters" of Maskirovka knows who shot down MH17.

 

[jackprince]

Everyone who doesn't automatically believe the "masters" of Maskirovka knows who shot down MH17.

True. I have my suspicion on Ukro Nazis. Thank you for confirming my suspicion.

 

[Yumdoot]

Everyone who doesn't automatically believe the "masters" of Maskirovka knows who shot down MH17.

You mean everyone who is handicapped by an inability to think for himself. The kind who would like nicely packaged and stuffed goods, even if the actual product is absolutely useless.

That Dutch report is avaliable in English, in searchable pdf version. Obviously the Dutch were the final authority in what went into that report And by the amount of loose ends therein, it seems the Dutch have ditched you white folks. Effectively the Dutch are saying everything that the Nato is saying but the Dutch are not saying 'why' on any of the open questions.

Do you know the Dutch investigators also inquired about the Su-25 shot down one day after the MH-17 got killed. Its there in the report. Now imagine why must they do that. What were they suspecting when they did that.

 

[apple]

You mean everyone who is handicapped by an inability to think for himself. The kind who would like nicely packaged and stuffed goods, even if the actual product is absolutely useless.

That Dutch report is avaliable in English, in searchable pdf version. Obviously the Dutch were the final authority in what went into that report And by the amount of loose ends therein, it seems the Dutch have ditched you white folks. Effectively the Dutch are saying everything that the Nato is saying but the Dutch are not saying 'why' on any of the open questions.

Do you know the Dutch investigators also inquired about the Su-25 shot down one day after the MH-17 got killed. Its there in the report. Now imagine why must they do that. What were they suspecting when they did that.

A plane was shot down, the Dutch investigate.

Dutch are NATO.

The Dutch aren't Russians, they aren't habitual liar and don't jump to judgement.

"Dutch have ditched you white folks"... WTF???

Wont respond to the rest of your mail

 

[jouni]

Maybe the plane was shot down by east-Ukrainian farmer? They shoot down apaches like that in Iraq, so why not Boeings in east Ukraine.

 

[Yumdoot]

A plane was shot down, the Dutch investigate.

Dutch are NATO.

The Dutch aren't Russians, they aren't habitual liar and don't jump to judgement.

"Dutch have ditched you white folks"... WTF???

And yet!

So can we take it that your disbelief indicates a confirmation. A confirmation that if the final report is loosely worded then it could have been done so intentionally.

Arre sirji, I am not jumping to any judgement. I had doubted the standard western narration since beginning. I have veered towards a double kill. Both a missile and a gun kill. You see I need to explain the observed phenomena, just for myself, even if the world around me rejects it. If the observation is not fitting into the explanation then then either the observation is spurious or the theory is.

Wont respond to the rest of your mail

Ok, but before you drop out, do notice my post #160 on this thread. Just the last page. Tell me if you like it.

@jouni, you refreshed some old memories with that thing. :bounce:

 

[pmaitra]

exactly .. I taught he will turned down his views, after the crash report ..but @pmaitra still in the same communist room

I have a piece of advice for you. Don't use words you don't understand.

He's not a communist. He's just watched too many Russian "movies" on the internet and thinks Russian girls(/or boys) are so easy even a loser virgin like him has a chance to get some ;-)

Awww. How cute. Considering your comments about condoms and about tasting it, it was obvious that the only type of intimacy you have ever experienced is that between two individuals of the same sex.

I gotta say I feel sorry for you. The good news is, many Syrian refugees have refused to go to FInland, so you might still have some hope.

So, yes, in that department, I am indeed inexperienced, and seek none of anything that disgusts me. Take pride in your Finnish values, and thanks for the confirmation, and as queer as it might sound, many of us had already suspected it.

Spoiler: Disgusting, but not graphic

 

[pmaitra]

Very Funny: German Satire of Anti-Russian Propaganda Goes Viral (Video)

Russia Insider



This video is going viral.

It seems to have touched a nerve in Germany, where there is growing discontent due to a perception that their media is very biased and misleading regarding the Ukraine crisis.

Hard to believe, but the German media has been worse than the Anglo-Saxon media in this regard.

Its theme is very similar to a similar satire from August, which we wrote about, and can be watched here.

This skit is from a very popular German political satire show called “Die Anstalt” (The Nut House), with a broad audience. Judging from the audience reaction, the wheels are starting to come off the government's version of events on Russia and the Ukraine.

Expect to see Germany distancing itself from the US on the Ukraine. More and more public figures are speaking out about this in Germany.

(Subtitled in English)

 

[Cadian]

So you are entirely convinced that it was made by pro Russian separatists. Ok, then why do you think they did it? They wanted to kill a lot of people? Or maybe they wanted to clear the sky from Ukrainian warplanes bombing their cities? Using military aircraft against civilians was enough for some Western countries to bomb Gaddafi, why the hell they allowed it in Ukraine?

When opposition activists in early 2014 have seized military bases and administration buildings in Lviv and West Ukraine, we heard threats to Yanukovich from Western governments to impose sanctions on him if he will use military force against theses guys. But when the new "democratic" government went to war with it's East, it was entirely Ok?

3 weeks after MH17 crash BBC and others were telling only about this story, but they have not noticed the largest Ukrainian offensive in Donbass war, that started immediately after. This offensive cased much more civilian and military casualties, than MH17. Why haven't they deserved even a small mention in Western press?

I don't understand, is it because I live in totalitarian society?

Now about Buks.

Ukrainian Buks were deployed to Donbass in March (!) 2014, according to Ukrainian news:
http://censor.net.ua/video_news/274...ye_kompleksy_buk_zanimayut_pozitsii_fotovideo
http://112.ua/politika/v-doneckoy-o...skiy-zenitno-raketnyy-kompleks-buk-36618.html

On 27 of April 2014 Ukrainian MoD said, that Air defenses [On Donbass and surroundings] are set to high alert.
http://www.24daily.net/?p=31979
http://rian.com.ua/politics/20140428/346206930.html

On 7 of June 2014 Ukrainian press reported that newly repaired BukM1 launchers are send to active duty.
https://www.google.ru/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=3&ved=0CCcQFjACahUKEwjygtDQ09DIAhXifnIKHarMCNI&url=http://glavnoe.ua/news/n179426&usg=AFQjCNH_2RDS_p2u2Dlfr0Yx5qPNCtA7fQ&bvm=bv.105454873,d.bGQ&cad=rja

During 2008 war in Georgia Ukrainian Buks (supposedly with Ukrainian crews) have shot down several Russian military planes.
http://izvestia.ru/news/341307

But what justification do we hear when we ask "Why Ukraine couldn't shot down MH-17 by accident or whatever"? "Ukraine could not did it, because it never could did it" is the answer.

I don't understand it either.

For me, MH-17 tragedy does not overwhelm post-coup tragedy in Ukraine in any sense.

 

[pmaitra]

Source: Patrick Armstrong | Russia Insider

MH17 REPORT. Not impressed. My principal observation: DSB’s direction of attack only possible if damage to port wing and engine ignored – as it was. Note the missing radar data from Ukraine and NATO. Identification of Buk depends on three or four particles. I call it a “limited hangout.”

Going by my experience with some individuals, I do not expect anyone of them to actually counter any of the points in the link provided in the quote. What I do expect is a lot of irrelevant comments and ad hominem attacks. I know I shall not be proven wrong.

 

[jouni]

So you are entirely convinced that it was made by pro Russian separatists. Ok, then why do you think they did it? They wanted to kill a lot of people? Or maybe they wanted to clear the sky from Ukrainian warplanes bombing their cities? Using military aircraft against civilians was enough for some Western countries to bomb Gaddafi, why the hell they allowed it in Ukraine?

When opposition activists in early 2014 have seized military bases and administration buildings in Lviv and West Ukraine, we heard threats to Yanukovich from Western governments to impose sanctions on him if he will use military force against theses guys. But when the new "democratic" government went to war with it's East, it was entirely Ok?

3 weeks after MH17 crash BBC and others were telling only about this story, but they have not noticed the largest Ukrainian offensive in Donbass war, that started immediately after. This offensive cased much more civilian and military casualties, than MH17. Why haven't they deserved even a small mention in Western press?

I don't understand, is it because I live in totalitarian society?

Now about Buks.

Ukrainian Buks were deployed to Donbass in March (!) 2014, according to Ukrainian news:
http://censor.net.ua/video_news/274...ye_kompleksy_buk_zanimayut_pozitsii_fotovideo
http://112.ua/politika/v-doneckoy-o...skiy-zenitno-raketnyy-kompleks-buk-36618.html

On 27 of April 2014 Ukrainian MoD said, that Air defenses [On Donbass and surroundings] are set to high alert.
http://www.24daily.net/?p=31979
http://rian.com.ua/politics/20140428/346206930.html

On 7 of June 2014 Ukrainian press reported that newly repaired BukM1 launchers are send to active duty.
https://www.google.ru/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=3&ved=0CCcQFjACahUKEwjygtDQ09DIAhXifnIKHarMCNI&url=http://glavnoe.ua/news/n179426&usg=AFQjCNH_2RDS_p2u2Dlfr0Yx5qPNCtA7fQ&bvm=bv.105454873,d.bGQ&cad=rja

During 2008 war in Georgia Ukrainian Buks (supposedly with Ukrainian crews) have shot down several Russian military planes.
http://izvestia.ru/news/341307

But what justification do we hear when we ask "Why Ukraine couldn't shot down MH-17 by accident or whatever"? "Ukraine could not did it, because it never could did it" is the answer.

I don't understand it either.

For me, MH-17 tragedy does not overwhelm post-coup tragedy in Ukraine in any sense.

Ukraine had every right to suppress armed uprising against government, the uprising was also planned and aided by foreign power. History is on their side. As for MH17, that was an honest mistake: Russian BUK crew thought they were shooting Ukrainian transport plane. Their BUK was missing one radar which could have told the truth. Just honest f*ck up, or as we call it: "ryssitty oikein kunnolla"

I love our phrase to decripe total failure "ryssiä"..." to do it in a russian way"...

 

[Cadian]

Ukraine had every right to suppress armed uprising against government, the uprising was also planned and aided by foreign power. History is on their side. As for MH17, that was an honest mistake: Russian BUK crew thought they were shooting Ukrainian transport plane. Their BUK was missing one radar which could have told the truth. Just honest f*ck up, or as we call it: "ryssitty oikein kunnolla"

I love our phrase to decripe total failure "ryssiä"..." to do it in a russian way"...

I really had better opinion about Finns before reading your posts. Now I know that smug arrogant nationalists exist there too.

I just point you in the fact, that Ukrainian Buks 100% were in the area, but it is never considered in Western "analysis" and is never mentioned in Western "free press". And you scream "ryssitty oikein kunnolla". Ok, no prblm.

Honestly, I really don't care much about only 300 victims from EU, compared to tens of thousands Russian and Ukrainian deaths and more that a million refugees. It just a minor incident. I also don't care much what European and American masters of foreign policy will decide next, they have already caused us too much damage with this disaster called "Eurointegration of Free Ukraine". God save us from those well-wishers.

 

[pmaitra]

Ukraine had every right to suppress armed uprising against government, the uprising was also planned and aided by foreign power. History is on their side. As for MH17, that was an honest mistake: Russian BUK crew thought they were shooting Ukrainian transport plane. Their BUK was missing one radar which could have told the truth. Just honest f*ck up, or as we call it: "ryssitty oikein kunnolla"

I love our phrase to decripe total failure "ryssiä"..." to do it in a russian way"...

I really had better opinion about Finns before reading your posts. Now I know that smug arrogant nationalists exist there too.

I just point you in the fact, that Ukrainian Buks 100% were in the area, but it is never considered in Western "analysis" and is never mentioned in Western "free press". And you scream "ryssitty oikein kunnolla". Ok, no prblm.

Honestly, I really don't care much about only 300 victims from EU, compared to tens of thousands Russian and Ukrainian deaths and more that a million refugees. It just a minor incident. I also don't care much what European and American masters of foreign policy will decide next, they have already caused us too much damage with this disaster called "Eurointegration of Free Ukraine". God save us from those well-wishers.

I would disagree with both of you.

The damage to the port wing, the port engine, and the port side of the cockpit with uniform holes clearly suggests MH-17 was shot at. I still believe it was shot at by a Kiev regime's Sukhoi-25's GSh-30-2 cannon.

 

[Cadian]

I would disagree with both of you.

The damage to the port wing, the port engine, and the port side of the cockpit with uniform holes clearly suggests MH-17 was shot at. I still believe it was shot at by a Kiev regime's Sukhoi-25's GSh-30-2 cannon.

I'll make a clarifying statement - I can't say who and how has shot down MH-17 right now, I just say about "unpopular" facts. I need more facts and I shall wait for investigation results. This case is extremely politicized, it makes things too difficult.

 

[jouni]

I really had better opinion about Finns before reading your posts. Now I know that smug arrogant nationalists exist there too.

I just point you in the fact, that Ukrainian Buks 100% were in the area, but it is never considered in Western "analysis" and is never mentioned in Western "free press". And you scream "ryssitty oikein kunnolla". Ok, no prblm.

Honestly, I really don't care much about only 300 victims from EU, compared to tens of thousands Russian and Ukrainian deaths and more that a million refugees. It just a minor incident. I also don't care much what European and American masters of foreign policy will decide next, they have already caused us too much damage with this disaster called "Eurointegration of Free Ukraine". God save us from those well-wishers.

We are both patriots, our truths will always be different. That is the effect of thousand year cultural border.

 

[Cadian]

We are both patriots, our truths will always be different. That is the effect of thousand year cultural border.

Thousand years... remind me please, how long Finland was a part of Russian Empire. And how it became independent from Sweden.

 

[jouni]

Thousand years... remind me please, how long Finland was a part of Russian Empire. And how it became independent from Sweden.

I said cultural border, you are third Rome we are Lutheran meritocracy. Like oil and water....