MH17 might have been shot down from air — chief Dutch investigator

Akim

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Why Su-25 is always mentioned. Is Su-25 the only plane in the inventory of Ukrainian Air Force? It could be any fighter that belongs to UkAF.
Putin has delivered for Russia which none of Ukrainian leaders did. I know Ukrainians are jealous of Putin.

Just for your information, Su-24 has flight ceiling of 11000 meters. UkAF has at least 20 Su-24.
I don't envy. And the citizens of Russia do not envy too. Putin 15 years of ruling the country. This autocrat. It only lacks the official title of Emperor. In Ukraine there are fighters that could shoot down the jet. However, there is a log of flights. In this day have only fly the Su-25.
 

sgarg

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@Akim, what are the chances the log is correct?
I have doubt about anything that comes out of mouth of Poroshenko and Yat-whatever.

Your hate for Putin is actually quite funny. However I warn you that Ukraine is digging its own grave.
 
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Akim

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@Akim, what are the chances the log is correct?
I have doubt about anything that comes out of mouth of Poroshenko and Yat-whatever.

Your hate for Putin is actually quite funny. However I warn you that Ukraine is digging its own grave.
Поживем- увиждим (We'll see what happens).
How would you treat the person, who brought the war in your land? Loved and admired them?
 
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pmaitra

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I don't envy. And the citizens of Russia do not envy too. Putin 15 years of ruling the country. This autocrat. It only lacks the official title of Emperor. In Ukraine there are fighters that could shoot down the jet. However, there is a log of flights. In this day have only fly the Su-25.
Frankly, if you want to rid Ukraine of the corruption, money-laundering, lawlessness, and chaos, you need to abandon western style whatistheword-cracy, and have someone like Putin.

Call him a Tsar if you will. In practice, he is - just that he is a Tsar who is popular, his policies reflect the will of the people, and therefore he is democratic (no, I am not talking about invading and bombing countries), is incorruptible, and will never sacrifice the interests of his nation over his personal interests, or the interests of the oligarchs.
 

sgarg

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Поживем- увиждим (We'll see what happens).
How would you treat the person, who brought the war in your land? Loved and admired them?
You want Russia's money, still want to kick Russia in the butt. You people have gone crazy.
The democracy and pot of gold at the end of the rainbow that you see in EU simply does not exists. NATO wants you to fight its war against Russia.
I am really surprised to see the stupidness of Ukrainians.

I give Kiev a max of three years. Many European players are already getting tired of you.
 

Akim

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You want Russia's money, still want to kick Russia in the butt. You people have gone crazy.
The democracy and pot of gold at the end of the rainbow that you see in EU simply does not exists. NATO wants you to fight its war against Russia.
I am really surprised to see the stupidness of Ukrainians.

I give Kiev a max of three years. Many European players are already getting tired of you.
I don't care about Europe, to spit on thee. You primitive moron and shitting different topic. When your neighbor will deprive you of a part of the apartment, the more friends you will not.
Russia spends 5% of GDP on defence. All special service (the FSB, police, emergency, etc), she spends 20% of GDP. This budget Empire or North Korea.
 

Akim

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Frankly, if you want to rid Ukraine of the corruption, money-laundering, lawlessness, and chaos, you need to abandon western style whatistheword-cracy, and have someone like Putin.

Call him a Tsar if you will. In practice, he is - just that he is a Tsar who is popular, his policies reflect the will of the people, and therefore he is democratic (no, I am not talking about invading and bombing countries), is incorruptible, and will never sacrifice the interests of his nation over his personal interests, or the interests of the oligarchs.
Ha-ha-ha. You're naive. Corruption in Russia even more than in Ukraine. Apartment house in Batumi is possible to build twice cheaper than in Odessa and 3 times cheaper than in Sochi. Do not argue about life in the CIS, when you have never been!
 

pmaitra

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I don't care about Europe, to spit on thee. You primitive moron and shitting different topic. When your neighbor will deprive you of a part of the apartment, the more friends you will not.
Russia spends 5% of GDP on defence. All special service (the FSB, police, emergency, etc), she spends 20% of GDP. This budget Empire or North Korea.
I would recommend you avoid name-calling.

You have gone too far. I have tried to be considerate towards you considering your country is in the middle of a civil war, but my consideration is not infinite.

I do not wish to argue with you. You are wrong, and you need to stop it, and on this issue, and I don't care whether you agree with me or not.
 

sgarg

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Ha-ha-ha. You're naive. Corruption in Russia even more than in Ukraine. Apartment house in Batumi is possible to build twice cheaper than in Odessa and 3 times cheaper than in Sochi. Do not argue about life in the CIS, when you have never been!
Nobody doubts corruption in Russia. However corruption is everywhere. Corruption is the hallmark of Western power (and eastern too). Corruption is the bane of modern society.

However this holier than thou approach that Kiev is somehow holier than Moscow simply does not work.
Ukraine has made itself poor by its own problems. Blaming Russia is foolishness.
 

sgarg

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There is absolutely no possibility of Russia shooting down MH17. The separatists shooting it down is also illogical. Why would separatists shoot it down? What benefit separatists get from it??

The motive is the first step in a criminal investigation.

Only Kiev had motive of pulling a false flag to implicate Russia. Only Kiev is shouting to anybody and everybody to put sanctions on Russia.

I repeat that MH17 is handiwork of Kiev regime. Even Malaysia has accepted this fact silently.

The biased Europeans may come out with some report. Who cares about that?
 

Ray

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Your points are fine as far as they go, Sir . What I am reacting to (my angst as you refer to it) is a person (Indian) living in the United States under the protection of its laws, despising the USA while unrelentingly cheerleading for Putin. My belief is that such a person with any moral person would either go back to India or emigrate to Russia.
The USA is a said to be a very tolerant nation.

Many are also against Obama. They think he is a covert Muslims pandering to Muslim ideas.

And yet, he is the President!
 

Ray

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I don't care about Europe, to spit on thee. You primitive moron and shitting different topic. When your neighbor will deprive you of a part of the apartment, the more friends you will not.
Russia spends 5% of GDP on defence. All special service (the FSB, police, emergency, etc), she spends 20% of GDP. This budget Empire or North Korea.
Actually, you should debate on issues.

It is only a person who has no facts to rebut with, is the one who goes ballistic with abuses.

So, one wonders who is moronic!

Easy does it, and all will be well.

And please no foreign languages to be used to post.
 
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sorcerer

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Your points are fine as far as they go, Sir . What I am reacting to (my angst as you refer to it) is a person (Indian) living in the United States under the protection of its laws, despising the USA while unrelentingly cheerleading for Putin. My belief is that such a person with any moral person would either go back to India or emigrate to Russia.
:O Not being tolerant to criticism or being tolerant to an individuals world view (though potraying the nation as very tolerant).What about the illusion of land of the free and whatelse..Putin has nothing to do with Americans or American Patriotism. US uses Soviet rockets and technology from Russia(from latest in media).

Putin is a nice sale pitch for votes in USA. India being a more free world has tuned its citizens to be less biased in their world views. We are more 'reasonable' than 'snob compatible' world views.
 

Virendra

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Ukrainian Combat Jet Returned Without Missiles After MH17 Crash: Reports

Excerpts :
A Ukrainian air force Su-25 combat jet took off from an airbase in eastern Dnipropetrovsk carrying air-to-air missiles and returned without them on the day the Malaysia Airlines flight MH17 crashed in eastern Ukraine, Komsomolskaya Pravda newspaper reports, citing an airbase employee.

The employee, who claims to be an eyewitness, said on July 17 that three Ukrainian combat jets took off, and that one of them, an Su-25, was carrying air-to-air missiles.

"After a while only one jet [of the three] returned, which had had those missiles"¦ It returned without the missiles. The pilot was very frightened," the man said. The employee stressed that only the returned Su-25 had been equipped with air-to-air missiles, and said he was sure it was not air-to-ground missiles.

The airbase worker said he remembered the pilot saying "the wrong plane" and "the plane was in the wrong place at the wrong time" after he returned from the flight.
Regards,
Virendra
 

sgarg

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Why Malaysian flights are crashing like paper planes? Either Malaysia is a target of a conspiracy or there is a sudden upsurge in plane hijackings involving Malaysian planes or there is sabotage on the ground??

Where is @asianobserve??

This man @asianobserve has the gall to advise us on foreign policy issues while his country has no worthwhile foreign policy and has no competence in its higher officers.

The Malaysians and Pakistanis who cannot fix their own country have the gall to advise us!
 
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asianobserve

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MH17 investigation hunting for missile lorry witnesses - BBC News


MH17 Investigation Hunting for Missile Lorry Witnesses

An international team investigating the downing of a Malaysia Airlines plane over eastern Ukraine in July 2014 has urged witnesses to come forward who saw a Buk missile launcher in the area.

The team says witnesses can be offered various protective measures.

All 298 people on flight MH17 from Amsterdam to Kuala Lumpur were killed.
 
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sgarg

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Funny news it is. What accuracy can be ascribed to such fake witnesses under inducements. The West has fallen to such low levels that law and justice are openly derided.

A witness if any was there would have come forward by now. The time to look for witnesses was in immediate aftermath when such testimony would have carried some weight.

Now we are offered "recordings" from "SBU" as evidence; and now witnesses are being searched for inducements.

Great Dutch logic!
 

asianobserve

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General designer of Su-25 says aircraft couldn't have shot down MH17

Malaysian airlines Flight MH17 could not have been shot down by an Su-25 attack aircraft, the chief designer of the Su-25, Vladimir Babak, said in an interview on Tuesday with German media companies NDR and WDR, and with newspaper Süddeutsche Zeitung, according to German broadcaster Deutsche Welle.



"The Su-25 could attack a Boeing at a height of three or four thousand meters, but it can't shoot down a plane flying at an altitude of 10,500 meters," he said.


According to Babak, he was engaged in the construction of this attack aircraft for about 30 years.

"Our team has designed this plane so that it can be used only at low and medium altitudes," he said.

"The aircraft can briefly rise to high altitude, but in order to destroy the Boeing, which at the time of the disaster broke apart in the air, there would have to have been heavy missiles on the Su-25," Babak said.

"Air-to-air missiles could only cause damage to the Malaysian aircraft, but they could not lead to what happened," he said.

"Many more factors indicate that the Boeing 777 was hit by a ground-to-air missile that was launched from a Buk missile system," Babak said.

"I believe that all allegations of the Su-25 involvement in the tragedy are an attempt to cover tracks. I can't explain it in any other way. We do not understand how a Su-25 could shoot down a Boeing," he added.

As reported earlier, the version of the possible involvement of the Ukrainian Su-25 attack aircraft into the tragedy of Malaysia Airlines Flight MH17, which led to the deaths of 298 passengers and crew members, was spread by Russia's General Staff.

However, the Ukrainian authorities believe that the Malaysian plane was shot down by a powerful Buk-M anti-aircraft missile, which Ukraine says was supplied to anti-government militants from the Russian Federation.

A large amount of circumstantial evidence, including photos and videos of the Buk system in Ukraine, interviews with witnesses who saw the system in the area where the shooting down of MH17 occurred, alleged tape recordings of militants reacting to news of the shooting down of MH17, and tweets and postings by militants on social media, strongly indicate that the plane was indeed shot down by a Buk system operated either by the militants or Russian servicemen.

According to some of the evidence, the militants or Russians shot down MH17 by mistake, thinking that they had in fact attacked a large Ukrainian military transport plane.

The Dutch investigation team investigating the crash of MH17 is expected to issue its final report in October.
Read more on UNIAN: http://www.unian.info/world/1054085...ays-aircraft-couldnt-have-shot-down-mh17.html
 
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sgarg

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It is not difficult at all to install a missile on Su-25 that can shoot down an airliner. Why Su-25 has to rise to airliner's height at all? After all location of the airliner was available to Ukrainian radar system very well. Launching a missile at it was not at all difficult.

Ukrainians know how to make an air-air missile very well. A modified air-air missile for a well planned "false flag operation" is within the capability of both Ukraine and USA.
 

sgarg

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I have already said before, the first thing in a criminal investigation is "intent". Why would Russia shoot down a Malaysian airliner. There is no reason in hell.

Even the idea of an accidental shoot-down is illogical. An airliner is very different from a fighter jet. The only similar signature would be another passenger aircraft of similar size. If an Ukrainian Buk battery mistook this aircraft for another (for example a Russian airliner), then it is a different issue.
 

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