Met my Army friend: Time just flew

[Ankit Purohit]

My college mate who is in the army has come on leave and I met him after 4 years. Currently he is on deputation in South Sudan.

Funny part is that I was interested to know what's going with his life and all about his experiences and he wanted to know about me and thought his life was not worth talking about.

When I told him I am admin on a defence forum and my interest in such affairs, his joy knew no bound. He could not believe people like me exist in India he said and by extension like those ok this forum who care about the army. He said I made him happy. Happy coz he got to know one citizen who is bothered about the army. He went on to say that in the US, a US Marine boarded a plane. An announcement was made by the flight attendant about the presence of the marine in their midst and how proud they were to have him on board. All passengers gave a round of applause and a person from the business class asked him to take his seat. He said this is how the US people respect their armed forces something that lacks in India. So he was pleasantly surprised about my interest and the existence of the forum.

He shared his experience of couple of weeks back. He said his car was ambushed by rebel forces and how his friend was hit by a bullet which broke his spine. He was saved, but may not walk again. This soldier who got hit is Indian Army Major. My salute to him for putting his life on the line in a foreign nation. I asked him what will happen now that the Major will not be able to walk. He said he will be given some money and will be discharged and will be left to fend for himself.

He said his deputation has been an eye opener for him. He has come in contact with Japanese, Nepalese and other nations contributing to the UN force. He said even the Nepalese soldier was better equipped than him. He was pissed with the govt "shoving" down DRDO into their throats all the time. He said we wear a bloody bullet proof vest which is 8 kgs! A helmet which gives a headache but not save the head and a rifle (INSAS) that sucks. ( @Kunal Biswas, @Ray) He said the other nations came in Land Cruisers (Nepali), another in a Nissan but the Indian govt sends them good old Mahindra Jeep! He said official UN reimbursement is 30-40lakhs for getting one vehicle but the govt sends a 3 lakh jeep and pockets the rest. Even his allowance is 1/3rd of what the UN pays per soldier on deputation. Rest goes to the govt.

Time just flew. 3 hours just vanished. I hope to meet him again later next week and hopefully for a longer time.

My Salute To Gentleman and I wish Healthy life For him

Jai Hind

 

[ashdoc]

He said this is how the US people respect their armed forces something that lacks in India. .

all this is due to vegetarianism . you may not believe this but too much ahimsa is not good for defence of the country . nobody gives a damn for the armed forces in india because they are all ahimsavadis.

 

[ashdoc]

A major war would change the perception.

Most here probably won't like the Brit connection, but there is universal truth in this, by Rudyard Kipling. (BG Ray has posted in here before, I believe.)

Tommy

you haven't read indian history . invaders from kushans to turks to british invaded and raped the land but nobody ever tried to respect the army . no major war will change the perception . for major wars dont occur here . all we indians are good at is tame surrender .

 

[Kunal Biswas]

That is media projection of India to we Indians..

for major wars dont occur here . all we indians are good at is tame surrender .

 

[Yusuf]

@Ray Sir, yes he is paid over and above his usual salary. What I am saying is that the allowance the UN offers per soldier which is passed on to the soldier is not the full amount.

As far as the car thing goes, the UN instructions say a 4x4 with so and so capacity is required and allocates say 30Lacs for it. India sends a vehicle which "technically" qualifies for the role but not capable enough. A Mahindra jeep Certainly does mt compare to a Land Cruiser or other such vehicles. India can certainly send other vehicles like Scorpio from Mahindra if at all. And yes a soldier does need some comfort in his otherwise uncomfortable life there.

 

[Yusuf]

@ Ray sir what was your experience wilt what you used especially about it being More Maintenance prone less reliable as it jammed too often & the magazine not being too good in quality.

 

[DivineHeretic]

@ Ray sir what was your experience wilt what you used especially about it being More Maintenance prone less reliable as it jammed too often & the magazine not being too good in quality.

There was an encounter pretty near to my house when I was younger, infact the encounter was @ my friends house. That was also the first time I had seen an INSAS rifle or for that matter troops from the state armed constabulary. It was newly supplied, guessing from the gleaming metal of the barrel. But I could see his face, especially near his eyes and his upper shirt wet/greasy with oil. He was also holding the gun in an awkward manner, not touching any part of the main body. At that time I couldn't make much out of this.

Later my relative, who is a senior IPS officer now, and has been deployed and commanded many COIN ops in upper Assam, told me about the mess this rifle was. He told several stories of encounters and the tactics that they came across, which btw are the same the CRPF is facing in Naxal areas now.

 

[Yusuf]

Something that my friend also talked about was the metallurgy of the gun barrel.

 

[Ray]

@Ray Sir, yes he is paid over and above his usual salary. What I am saying is that the allowance the UN offers per soldier which is passed on to the soldier is not the full amount.

As far as the car thing goes, the UN instructions say a 4x4 with so and so capacity is required and allocates say 30Lacs for it. India sends a vehicle which "technically" qualifies for the role but not capable enough. A Mahindra jeep Certainly does mt compare to a Land Cruiser or other such vehicles. India can certainly send other vehicles like Scorpio from Mahindra if at all. And yes a soldier does need some comfort in his otherwise uncomfortable life there.

I don't want to quibble, but as far as I know and experienced, the Indian Govt does not take a cut on salaries.

It happened with i ASSAM long back (I think in Kampuchea) and there was hell to pay.

What is the task of an overland vehicle in the UN Mission?

How is it that the Jeep fails?

Ideally, I would like to ride in an APC/ICV instead of a jeep in a dangerous country!

 

[Ray]

There was an encounter pretty near to my house when I was younger, infact the encounter was @ my friends house. That was also the first time I had seen an INSAS rifle or for that matter troops from the state armed constabulary. It was newly supplied, guessing from the gleaming metal of the barrel. But I could see his face, especially near his eyes and his upper shirt wet/greasy with oil. He was also holding the gun in an awkward manner, not touching any part of the main body. At that time I couldn't make much out of this.

Later my relative, who is a senior IPS officer now, and has been deployed and commanded many COIN ops in upper Assam, told me about the mess this rifle was. He told several stories of encounters and the tactics that they came across, which btw are the same the CRPF is facing in Naxal areas now.

What was the 'mess' with the INSAS?

It was newly supplied, guessing from the gleaming metal of the barrel.

76 CRPF jawans were killed in an Naxal ambush in Chattisgarh.

Was it because of the weapons they had or was it because they were not trained?

One MPV Caspir was also blown up.

Was the Caspir an useless vehicle?

It has worked OK elsewhere.

I would only remind all that the Sherman tanks of WWII vintage took on Pakistani Patton (then the last word in tanks) along with Centurions. Assal Uttar became the graveyard of Pakistani armour.

How come?

Because the Indians were trained and the Pakistanis were not competent.

Would one say Patton was junk and the WWII vintage Shermans better?

 

[Ray]

Something that my friend also talked about was the metallurgy of the gun barrel.

I don't think he is competent to comment on metallurgy.

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Paramilitary training is lot poorer than Army, let it be tactic, reaction time or maintenance..

In person i have see them in our ranges and there preform-ace in firing is horrible so does there officers in command..

Regarding Spilling Oil, I have seen BSF with AK doing that, here is where they are not trained properly cleaning their rifles..

 

[DivineHeretic]

What was the 'mess' with the INSAS?



76 CRPF jawans were killed in an Naxal ambush in Chattisgarh.

Was it because of the weapons they had or was it because they were not trained?

One MPV Caspir was also blown up.

Was the Caspir an useless vehicle?

It has worked OK elsewhere.

I would only remind all that the Sherman tanks of WWII vintage took on Pakistani Patton (then the last word in tanks) along with Centurions. Assal Uttar became the graveyard of Pakistani armour.

How come?

Because the Indians were trained and the Pakistanis were not competent.

Would one say Patton was junk and the WWII vintage Shermans better?

The mess with the initial batches of Insas was the spraying of barrel oil/grease onto the eyes of the jawan firing it. The soldier would be blinded temporarily while in the middle of an encounter. A nightmare for any jawan.

As for the naxal comment, The IA and indeed even the armed police in Assam and all over the NE (and I'm sure in J&K) came under ambush tactics, including IEDs as far back as the 1970s. Since then the IA and individual state police and the deployed CAPF have all devised SOPs for convoy/vehicular movement in troubled areas, which we see applied in J&K very effectively.

The CRPF got blown up @ Dantewada because they flouted basic SOPs. They did not conduct height domination exercises prior/alongwith area patrols, did not induct road opening parties. It became immaterial as to how equiped or trained they were when they walked into an ambush. They still have the mindset of a police force, courtsey the IPS officers, and tend to behave as such. The BSF, when deployed in Naxal areas have been better, as they have a proper mindset for operationg in a heavy COIN area,.

 

[Ray]

The mess with the initial batches of Insas was the spraying of barrel oil/grease onto the eyes of the jawan firing it. The soldier would be blinded temporarily while in the middle of an encounter. A nightmare for any jawan.

As for the naxal comment, The IA and indeed even the armed police in Assam and all over the NE (and I'm sure in J&K) came under ambush tactics, including IEDs as far back as the 1970s. Since then the IA and individual state police and the deployed CAPF have all devised SOPs for convoy/vehicular movement in troubled areas, which we see applied in J&K very effectively.

The CRPF got blown up @ Dantewada because they flouted basic SOPs. They did not conduct height domination exercises prior/alongwith area patrols, did not induct road opening parties. It became immaterial as to how equiped or trained they were when they walked into an ambush. They still have the mindset of a police force, courtsey the IPS officers, and tend to behave as such. The BSF, when deployed in Naxal areas have been better, as they have a proper mindset for operationg in a heavy COIN area,.

If it was initial, and that is taken as correct, then it means it is not there any more!

In Dantewada, the CRPF did not have any idea of military tactics. They were police oriented. And you are spot on.

However, I would like to mention that as far as the Army is concerned, it was aware of how to ambush and break an ambush right from WWII and so it was applied all through ever since insurgency hit India.

Insurgency management i.e. overall policies and doctrines, is a continuous process where all learn from after action reports of various actions, both Indian Army's and foreign insurgency management.

On the issue of road opening, it is a modified replication of what is mentioned in British Indian Army GS publication Advance, under the Section Picquetting in the Khyber.

IEDs have always been there. They were called 'booby traps' in WWII. We forgot about it only to re-learn and call it by another name! The Japanese made extensive use of booby traps against the British Indian Army in Burma to the doors of India.

 

[DivineHeretic]

If it was initial, and that is taken as correct, then it means it is not there any more!

In Dantewada, the CRPF did not have any idea of military tactics. They were police oriented. And you are spot on.

However, I would like to mention that as far as the Army is concerned, it was aware of how to ambush and break an ambush right from WWII and so it was applied all through ever since insurgency hit India.

Insurgency management i.e. overall policies and doctrines, is a continuous process where all learn from after action reports of various actions, both Indian Army's and foreign insurgency management.

On the issue of road opening, it is a modified replication of what is mentioned in British Indian Army GS publication Advance, under the Section Picquetting in the Khyber.

IEDs have always been there. They were called 'booby traps' in WWII. We forgot about it only to re-learn and call it by another name! The Japanese made extensive use of booby traps against the British Indian Army in Burma to the doors of India.

I think the spraying effect of barrel oil has been patched in the later models. Back in the earlier days, some jawans cqme up with rather innovative ideas to avoid "ink face". They'd buy large (huge) sized shades/spectacles from the roadside for about Rs. 50-80-100 and would wear them to protect their eyes. Ironically, now these are called the aviator look and branded as such,for civillian use that is.

The current insurgency that the CRPF is facing in Naxal hit areas remind me of the insurgency faced by the British India Army the pre-independence days. These two have a lot of similarity, in terms of military targets chosen for attacks. Outside the mizo and Naga insurgency, no other insurgency other than the Naxals have attacked the state armoury repeatedly. This is pretty similar to the attacks conducted by the likes of freedom fighters on the armoury of the Brit IA.

 

[Yusuf]

I think the spraying effect of barrel oil has been patched in the later models. Back in the earlier days, some jawans cqme up with rather innovative ideas to avoid "ink face". They'd buy large (huge) sized shades/spectacles from the roadside for about Rs. 50-80-100 and would wear them to protect their eyes. Ironically, now these are called the aviator look and branded as such,for civillian use that is.

The current insurgency that the CRPF is facing in Naxal hit areas remind me of the insurgency faced by the British India Army the pre-independence days. These two have a lot of similarity, in terms of military targets chosen for attacks. Outside the mizo and Naga insurgency, no other insurgency other than the Naxals have attacked the state armoury repeatedly. This is pretty similar to the attacks conducted by the likes of freedom fighters on the armoury of the Brit IA.

All good but I protest the use of the term insurgency against the Brits.

 

[Ray]

Factually, from the British point of view it was taken as terrorism.

They were in government!

Now, of course we take a different view being free.

 

[DivineHeretic]

Factually, from the British point of view it was taken as terrorism.

They were in government!

Now, of course we take a different view being free.

As they say, History is written by the victors.

All other versions are erased from history.

Or as the famous quote in Battlefield 3 goes: America was founded by terrorists, for terrorists and of the terrorists. The victors get to choose their place in history.

 

[DivineHeretic]

All good but I protest the use of the term insurgency against the Brits.

I second that. This is the reason why I refrained from taking the names of our heroes in the post. That would be equating their selfless acts to the despicable acts of the Maoist politburo.
you must excuse me. I was writing from the point of view of the military.

 

[sayareakd]

well weapons need to clean and properly maintained that is what army and para military soldiers should do in their free time. If you dont do it then weapon will not work properly when you require it most.