Medium Range Maritime Reconnaissance (MRMR) Aircraft

[Kunal Biswas]

Its better to buy some more IL-38 sea dragons..

SAAB provide only surveillance capability..



http://www.celsius.se/Global/Docume...llance/SSS08_0062_Datasheet_Saab_2000_MPA.pdf

http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com...me-patrol-aircraft-competition-updated-01991/

 

[kuku]

Well i think the Navy should just go with more Boeing P-8I LR-MPAs and leave the near coast work to the Coast guard with more modified versions of Dornier or similar aircrafts.

For pure survaillance duties it will be better to use UAVs like the IAI Eitan.

The coming decade will see a huge increase in PLA-N naval vessels in the Indian Ocean utilising refueling and repair facilities they have built up with friendly nations in the region (although i do not think they will permanently base naval vessels in those facilities), to keep track of them we need planes with the most modern sensors, a robust information sharing network, and planes that have long legs.

The Navy should shift its focus to more blue water operations, rest of the naval forces in the immediate neighborhood do not have the potential to be a threat, except may be the submarine capability Pakistan wants to build up, which i doubt will be effective, even if they scrape together enough money to buy the submarines, they will struggle to find enough to run them properly.

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Well i think the Navy should just go with more Boeing P-8I LR-MPAs and leave the near coast work to the Coast guard with more modified versions of Dornier or similar aircrafts.

For pure survaillance duties it will be better to use UAVs like the IAI Eitan.

The coming decade will see a huge increase in PLA-N naval vessels in the Indian Ocean utilising refueling and repair facilities they have built up with friendly nations in the region (although i do not think they will permanently base naval vessels in those facilities), to keep track of them we need planes with the most modern sensors, a robust information sharing network, and planes that have long legs.

The Navy should shift its focus to more blue water operations, rest of the naval forces in the immediate neighborhood do not have the potential to be a threat, except may be the submarine capability Pakistan wants to build up, which i doubt will be effective, even if they scrape together enough money to buy the submarines, they will struggle to find enough to run them properly.

P-8I is capable but they are in very small numbers only 8..

IN need Small and Medium size MPA which can strike both surface and submerge..

UAV specially Eitan is good near coastlines and bay of bengal, but its better to have multipurpose MPA for far reach against PLAN activities..

 

[kuku]

Yes, indeed that was the point of my previous post, just buy more P-8I, instead of going on and on with these time wasting tenders for medium and small MPAs which have short legs.

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Yes, indeed that was the point of my previous post, just buy more P-8I, instead of going on and on with these time wasting tenders for medium and small MPAs which have short legs.

Why to go for P-8I when we need some thing for medium range and short?

P8I operational cost is more as its based on a 737, Where Mid and short range aircraft like SAAB 2000 And IL-38 are Turbo-Props and operational cost is low also the turbo-prop version can operate from STOVL runways where 737 cannot, This helps IN to do its surveillance more efficiently..

IL-38 sea dragon is good over deep seas and already operational in IN, Its good enough to cover IN requirement for medium and short range MPA with strike capability..

Where P8I will cover Indian Ocean..

 

[Rahul Singh]

Though i agree we need more LRMPA but i don't agree with sugestion that we should not buy MRMPA. MR-MPAs are required to keep track and detect small or brown water submarines something which can't be detected with CG patrol aircrafts. On commercial side MR-MPAs offers affordable flight at medium ranges and more than enough capability for keeping track on entire PN surface, subsurface assets.

On other side P-8I is not exactly a LRMPA, it is no comparable to TU-142 MP. A LRMPA needs long radius (+1000 nm) and 4-5 hours of on station endurance which is something P-8I is not capable of. Only way to use them as LRMPA is through rotation and it will require least three times the squadron strength of TU-142 MPA in Navy. Assume 8 x 3 = 24 P-8Is as minimum requirement which is double of contracted so far.

 

[kuku]

Why to go for P-8I when we need some thing for medium range and short?

P8I operational cost is more as its based on a 737, Where Mid and short range aircraft like SAAB 2000 And IL-38 are Turbo-Props and operational cost is low also the turbo-prop version can operate from STOVL runways where 737 cannot, This helps IN to do its surveillance more efficiently..

IL-38 sea dragon is good over deep seas and already operational in IN, Its good enough to cover IN requirement for medium and short range MPA with strike capability..

Where P8I will cover Indian Ocean..

The Indian Navy should discontinue medium and short ranged maritime patrol aircrafts, that area should go to the coast guards, we do not need medium and short ranged maritime patrol aircrafts which are higher in class than the Dornier 228.

Any investment on the IL-38 right now is a waste of money, that platform is not going to be easy to operate in 2030+, we need planes that are easy to build, repair and upgrade at HAL facilities and for which spares are available for quite some time in future.

quoting my self again....................

Well i think the Navy should just go with more Boeing P-8I LR-MPAs and leave the near coast work to the Coast guard with more modified versions of Dornier or similar aircrafts.

For pure survaillance duties it will be better to use UAVs like the IAI Eitan.

Though i agree we need more LRMPA but i don't agree with suggestion that we should not buy MRMPA. MR-MPAs are required to keep track and detect small or brown water submarines something which can't be detected with CG patrol aircrafts. On commercial side MR-MPAs offers affordable flight at medium ranges and more than enough capability for keeping track on entire PN surface, subsurface assets.

On other side P-8I is not exactly a LRMPA, it is no comparable to TU-142 MP. A LRMPA needs long radius (+1000 nm) and 4-5 hours of on station endurance which is something P-8I is not capable of. Only way to use them as LRMPA is through rotation and it will require least three times the squadron strength of TU-142 MPA in Navy. Assume 8 x 3 = 24 P-8Is as minimum requirement which is double of contracted so far.

PN surface ships are very few and limited in their area of operation, as long as net survaillance is there they are not going anywhere.

Brown water Subs?

the immediate neighborhood has too few submarines to make a difference and most operations against those submarines will require ASW elements that are much better on the P-8I persistence, larger amount of sonobuoys, air dropped torpedo's, depth charge, more ELINT equipment, and a larger crew to analyse the collected data and perform continuous shifts with refueling, when the war is near a larger fleet of more capable planes is better than sending medium ones.

Brown water submarine operations: the PN submarines will not hide in their own waters, if they do we have already won.

The Navy has analysed several platforms and then decided upon the P-8I, it was the best platform available to India.

 

[sandeepdg]

The IL-38 is a potent long range surveillance and ASW platform, but they are getting old. We should look for newer platforms which are easier to maintain and repair. The SAAB 2000/340 offer such a capability, and they can be integrated with avionics that the IN specifically requires, as well our choice of weapons too. Though, there's nothing the Americans can offer that match the range of Soviet platforms like the TU-142 and the IL-38, but then again the are heavy fuel guzzlers, and massive complex machines that are more than 40 years old.

 

[ZOOM]

PN surface ships are very few and limited in their area of operation, as long as net survaillance is there they are not going anywhere.

Certainly PN Surface ships aren't very limited to given area of operation which was quite arrested by the fact that they now got some long range missile which threaten Indian Sea Lanes.

Brown water Subs?

the immediate neighborhood has too few submarines to make a difference and most operations against those submarines will require ASW elements that are much better on the P-8I persistence, larger amount of sonobuoys, air dropped torpedo's, depth charge, more ELINT equipment, and a larger crew to analyse the collected data and perform continuous shifts with refueling, when the war is near a larger fleet of more capable planes is better than sending medium ones.

Brown water submarine operations: the PN submarines will not hide in their own waters, if they do we have already won.

The Navy has analysed several platforms and then decided upon the P-8I, it was the best platform available to India.

PN Submarine's are real threat not only to Indian Surface Vessel but also to our Oil rigs and important Logisitics ships require to replanish Warships. Our Hunter class Kilo will have to defend our Oil Rigs and all other Offshore assets to keep PN subs at bay.

 

[LETHALFORCE]

why do we have to have so many different platforms?? The P8-I may have less range but it is a hunter killer this is more of a surveillance aircraft which does not seem to have much offensive capability once the enemy is spotted?? Interestingly this incorporates SAAB EERYIE AWAC.

 

[JAISWAL]

SAAB to bid for Indian Navy MRMR tender

.
:: Bharat-Rakshak.com - Indian Military News Headlines ::
.
.
Swedish defense and aerospace
company SAAB is planning to
offer its SAAB 2000 aircraft to
the Indian Navy when it issues a
Request For Proposal (RFP) for
Medium Range Maritime
Reconnaissance (MRMR) aircraft
in the next few months.
The Indian Navy currently
operates the Russian Tu-142
Bear and IL-38 aircraft, in
addition to Dornier aircraft. It
has also ordered eight P-8I Long
Range Maritime Reconnaissance
(LRMR) aircraft and is expected
to buy an additional four.
The aircraft is built by US
aviation company Boeing, which
is planning to pitch a medium
range'diet' P-8 for the Indian
Navy's MRMR tender.
While the SAAB 2000 is being
offered with the RBS-15 Anti
Ship Missile and a fifth
generation Selex AESA radar,
what is also interesting is that
SAAB is offering re-
manufactured aircraft, since the
company ceased production of
the aircraft in 1999.
"We will take an existing SAAB
2000. We will re-manufacture it
and build it up. So it will be
ground zero flying hours. We will
have all the warranties. We will
have 35,000 flying hours. It will
have 25 years of support," said
Tommy Hultin, SAAB's Business
Development Director for the
program.
Hultin also says the Harpoon
missile manufactured by Boeing,
which India is already planning
to acquire for the Indian Air
Force (IAF) Jaguar and the P-8I
aircraft, can also be configured
on the SAAB 2000, which he
points out, is one of the fastest
turboprop aircraft flying.

 

[JAISWAL]

Radar:-
Selex Active Electronically
Scanned Array (AESA) Maritime
Surveillance Radar with long
range search of 200 nautical
miles. The interrogator functions
of the Identification Friend-or-
Foe (IFF) capability can be
customized. The radar is paired with a Saab R4A AIS transponder receiver/transmitter system that marks maritime activity with an encrypted data link.
Electro-Optic (HDTV) and
Thermal Imager sensors:For
close range detection,
identification and recording of surface objects and activities.

ELINT.:-
Capable of intercepting
and collect intelligence
information consisting of detailed
information of e.g. complex
emitters active signal
components, the relationship
and the dynamics between active signal components.
.
ESM system:-
Automatically
identifies RF (Radio Frequency)
signal sources and Direction
Finding of RF signal sources.

.

 

[pmaitra]

India looks like the Howrah Railway Station with peddlers offering all and sundry to the travellers.

A picture from Peru:

 

[JAISWAL]

.
SPS system:-
Radar warning receivers, missile approach warning sensors, laser warning sensors as well as chaff and flare dispensers for self protection.
.

COMINT system:-
Enhances SIGINT capability by complementing the baseline ELINT system. Includes Direction Finder function and an Intercept System.
.

Command & Control (C2)
system:-
Integrates and assists in
controlling mission sensors and provides the user interface to mission operators, via four (4)
workstations installed side-by-side in the cabin facing
starboard, and to the pilots via a dedicated tactical display. The workstations also provide access to the mission communication system.
.

FLIR:-
Forward Looking Infra Red
which can be used for
identification of vessels. While
performance depends on on
environmental conditions such as
fog, sea-state, salt percentage, it can typically be used within a range of 5-10 nautical miles. SAAB says the aircraft can operate from high altitude airfields,'taking off with maximum load and fuel even at very hot temperatures'. With a
cruising speed of 350 knots, it
can climb to an altitude of
20,000 ft in 10 minutes and
reach an operating area 1,000 nautical miles away within three hours. It can maintain position on a single engine even at a height of 20,000 feet.
The aircraft is said to be able to carry out a mission covering 200 nautical miles Exclusive Economic Zone (EEZ) for 5.5 hours at an altitude of 2,000 ft, or longer patrol times at higher altitudes up to 31000 feet.

 

[JAISWAL]

one question to all seniors
.
Isn't it will be good for India to upgrad its TU-Beers of Russian origin and get new ones of same fron Russia.

 

[JAISWAL]

@ pmaitra
.
Sir is it still showimg distorted word arangment or had it been corrected.
Please reply

 

[pmaitra]

@ pmaitra
.
Sir is it still showimg distorted word arangment or had it been corrected.
Please reply

Sorry for the delay in replying.

It is still showing as distorted but don't worry, keep posting.

-Regards-

 

[debasree]

saab at the same time giving the pakistan the same recon planes!!!!!!!!! no sir thank u.

 

[Rahul Singh]

Second hand aircrafts as new? No thanks, Navy can easily afford ATR-72 MPA or even notoriously costly Dassult Falcon. And you can easily sell these second hand airplanes to Pakistan, they just lost 2. But wait, they don't have money to buy!

 

[Yusuf]

Wont happen. Just that sweden is too small a player on the world stage to give india any leverage with weapons purchase from them.