May i come in?

agentperry

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I know what's going in Pakistan and thats why i am saying that pakistan suffered most with terrorism than anyone else. we are cleaning all the mess in tribal areas when americans are safe in their country after starting war on terror. Common peoples got trap between extremist and nato/pakistani army and they are paying the price of drone attacks or suicide attcks
see, with such a history do you think that india and indians will wait and see how pakistan comes out of this shit, try to understand what is happening in paakistan.

in india right now this principle is in work- apna kaam banta bhaad main jaye janta
 

Raja.pakistani

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Do explain the intention of "Jihad fi Sabilillah" in Pakistan army's motto. I'm sure it's not for some "peaceful internal struggle" :rolleyes:
Jihad fi sabililah is Jihad in ways of Allah which include all jihad even jihad against evil desires. Jihad can be done with words, with money, with fight againt oppressor etc. Arabic word jihad mean struggle. What you are referring is qataal not jihad..

Prophet(PBUH) Said :
"The best Jihad is the word of Justice in front of the oppressive Sultan [ruler].
Very nice, you have both defined and then justified terrorism.
No, i have simply said that its on perception of peoples because sometimes freedom figter of one nation is traitor/terrorist of other nation. IRA was freedom fighters for Irish peoples while they were terrorist for British
 

LurkerBaba

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Jihad fi sabililah is Jihad in ways of Allah which include all jihad even jihad against evil desires. Jihad can be done with words, with money, with fight againt oppressor etc. Arabic word jihad mean struggle. What you are referring is qataal not jihad..
But why have that as the motto of your armed forces ? It's pretty clear which kind struggle Pakistan Army wants
 
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Ray

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But why have that as the motto of your armed forces ? It's pretty clear which kind struggle Pakistan Army wants
Raja, no offence, but I think that was coined because it became necessary for the sons of the soil of West Pakistan to ensure some equality with the Mohajirs, who being educated and savvy had come and taken over the governance of the new country and the Punjabis who dominated the army decided to use it in the game of oneupmanship to tell the Mohajirs that they should not forget the sword arm that would be necessary to further the aims of Pakistan.

This is a short explanation leaving out the rationale behind the issue because I think it is better to show mehman nawazi!
 

Ray

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Prophet(PBUH) Said :
"The best Jihad is the word of Justice in front of the oppressive Sultan [ruler].
Raja,

On a lighter vein, is it the reason why Kiyani has met Zardari two times over the alleged indiscretion of the Pakistan Ambassador to the US? :)

What is the latest about the poor chap? Has he resigned or has he been removed or has Zardari stuck to his guns?
 

Sabir

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@ Raja dont get frustrated by the worm welcome you have received. :D It is like breaking a coconut. Once you break the shell you can find the soft things in the same members who are welcoming you. You are a good person, as I have experienced from your posts in the pakistani forum, you can contribute in breaking the coconut shell.
 

Bangalorean

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I am tired ..can we get some break lol
Be happy. Your introduction thread is probably the most long-running intro thread in the forum's history. Be proud. :yey:

Anyway, this thread would have made you realize that Indians don't like Pakistanis to equate Pakistan and Islam. Indians don't subscribe to the 2-nation theory the same way that you guys do - we do not accept that "Hindus and Muslims cannot live together". :taunt:
 

The Messiah

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Innocent until proven guilty but when it comes to pakis in my eyes it is guilty until proven innocent.

and by paki i dont mean muslim...it is old trick of pakis to use muslim shield to deflect. just pointing out that so that our resident paki doesn't think im going on a tirade against islam.
 

Sabir

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The anger of common Indians are more directed to the ruler of Pakistan, the policy makers, especially the Army not because of that Pakistan is a Muslim country. We have good relation with many other Muslim countries like in Middle East and in Asia. But, the fundamentalists (yes , we have some too) think otherway.
 

ejazr

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Welcome to DFI Raja,

Hope you have a good stay.

I would just like to add to one of your posts that Jinnah and the ML never really had any plans for the partition until the 1940s. And Islam was only used as a political tool rather than with any basis of Islam itself when the demand for Pakistan was made.

It is a fact of history that almost all religious clerics who actually followed Islam in their lives opposed the parition precisely because dividing India in the name of religion as Muslim vs Hindu India was completely UnIslamic. Islam in their eyes was a universal faith and not some political ideology that was to be confined within borders of a country. Is it any wonder that the NWFP frontier pathans voted overwhelmingly with the Congress even though slogans like "vote for League if you are Muslim" were being chanted.

However, history was different and people like Jinnah who was muslim only in name and never followed Islam in his personal life used that as a political tool to mobilise Muslim Leaguers, just like Sarvarkar who himself was not a devout Hindu (he was a beef-eater for example) but used Hinduism as a political tool to mobilize Hindu Mahasabhites.

Incidentally both had good personal relations with some people of opposite faiths while advocating hostile positions and mistrust of the opposite community as a whole like supporting the Two Nation Theory.

I guess the bottom line is that while India never supported the Two Nation theory and does not teach it to its kids, Pakistan continues to do so and makes it a cornerstone calling it the ideology of Pakistan. Until this Two Nation Theory is dismantled and a new ideology of Pakistan which accepts that all ethnic groups and all religions are equal citizens of the state as they should be, a dichotomy will remain that will keep destablising Pakistan.

Other than that I would highly recommend reading the book In the Shadow of the Great Game by Narendra Singh Sarila to get a really good undestanding of how the British had interfered in the last years of the independence movements and how they considered the creation of Pakistan as a vital requirements to protect their interests in the wells of power (the persian and arab oil wells) and be a bulwark against USSR. Both of the purposes which Pakistan served to the US/UK regimes.

Once the establishment and the majority of the poeple on both sides understand this reality, I don't see why there would be a reason for both India and Pakistan to work together and have only a border separating us. If UK and France could fight and kill each other for over 500 years and the US and UK fought wars and were hostile to each for 200 years and still became friends. Then India and Pakistan have been apart for 60+ years and theoretically speaking, its not impossible.
 

hit&run

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Ejzar bhai the problem with many is that they are sacred of the devil and the devil is not in generic boiler plate assertion but in details.
*****************************************************
@ Raja Pakistani Welcome to DFI.
*********************************
@ Mods, I think this thread has served its utility and should be closed or posters should refrain posting any other discussion here. Raja Pakistani seems to me pretty switched on a person and now we should expect more of Raja Pakistani's POV (If/ When he would like) on threads or subjects of his choice (as it is typically with other members too).

No more excuses or liberties should be given to anyone that they are holding back because its an Introduction thread.

Regards
 

LurkerBaba

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just like Sarvarkar who himself was not a devout Hindu (he was a beef-eater for example) but used Hinduism as a political tool to mobilize Hindu Mahasabhites.
Just a minor nitpick ejazr, beef eating or non belief in god is are not criteria for judging weather a person is Hindu or not (according to scripture at-least). The Rig Veda for example.........(stopping before the thread goes further offtopic :D)
 
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Raja.pakistani

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But why have that as the motto of your armed forces ? It's pretty clear which kind struggle Pakistan Army wants
I think Motto/struggle of all armed forces are same which is safety, protection, honour, interests of their country. Motto of Pakistan Army which is Iman, Taqwa, Jihad fi Sabilillah (Faith, Piety, Struggle in the way of God) . There is nothing wrong with this motto. I think motto of indian special forces is "balidaan", "Aakasey Satrun Jahi" Bharat Mata ki jai , Jo Bole So Nihal, Sat Sri Akal. etc etc. The problem exist in your mind which perceive jihad as killing of innocent non believers and i told you its not jihad but its terrorism and murdered and no God allow this kind of struggle because killing one innocent is killing whole humanity as per Islamic teaching. I have no shame to admit that there are peoples who misinterprt the teaching of their religion and such extremist exist in all religions/nationality :)
 
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Raja.pakistani

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Welcome Raja Pakistani to DFI.



Please cut Raja sahab some break.

I have to confess, when it comes to mehman-navazi esp towards Indians, Pakistanis are certainly more generous and gracious.
Thank dude and yes you are most welcome to visit any time and i am sure it will clear many misconceptions about Pakistan/Pakistani. I have to confess it too that Sigh is king :D
 

Raja.pakistani

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@ Raja dont get frustrated by the worm welcome you have received. :D It is like breaking a coconut. Once you break the shell you can find the soft things in the same members who are welcoming you. You are a good person, as I have experienced from your posts in the pakistani forum, you can contribute in breaking the coconut shell.
Dont worry dude. I am very good in controlling my negative emotions. Any way i post this songs for haters :p

 
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Singh

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Thank dude and yes you are most welcome to visit any time and i am sure it will clear many misconceptions about Pakistan/Pakistani. I have to confess it too that Sigh is king :D

which part of Pakistan are you from ?

And thank you for taking the time to clear the misconception us Indians have of Pakistan or Pakistanis. And please ignore users, using the ignore button, or report inflammatory posts.

ps: Singh is King has a feel good factor but that's about it 8)
 

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